Minor rework of Nightblade abilities

HoffmannTheBest

Some of the Nightblade's abilities are very strong, allowing the Nightblade to kill one after another without stopping.

For example:
The "Sneak Strike" ability deals damage equal to the damage of the ultimate. If the ultimate can be used once every few seconds, depending on the speed of gaining super ability points, then this skill can be spammed endlessly, dealing 8-10k damage, in combination with "Shadow Shroud" this damage increases several times, about "Shadow Shroud" will be below.

The "Shadow Shroud" ability is extremely effective for destroying the enemy and escaping from attack. In fact, the Nightblade can kill an enemy in a crowd and go invisible without receiving any damage, and then return and kill someone again. I personally encountered Nightblade spamming both enemy teams with the combination of "Sneak Strike" + "Shadow Shroud" + "Sneak Strike" + "Shadow Shroud" + "Mortal Strike".
If no one on the team has the "Magic Light" ability, then it is impossible to defeat such a combination.

I suggest the following:
Increase the duration of the "Shadow Shroud" ability by 2-3 seconds, but at the same time give a debuff after detection or damage, preventing the use of the ability for 3 seconds, or while taking damage. This will make it possible to counter the spam of the combination I described above.

Increase the time between guaranteed critical strikes for "Sneak Strike" abilities to 6 seconds, or link the guaranteed critical strike to the "Shadow Shroud" ability.

Veinblood1965

I've not heard of either of your first two abilities. Maybe the names are incorrect? My main is a NB and played him for years and I know of no such ability that deals damage equal to the ultimate damage.

Bashev

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I've not heard of either of your first two abilities. Maybe the names are incorrect? My main is a NB and played him for years and I know of no such ability that deals damage equal to the ultimate damage.

Yep you are wright, it is not equal, it does way more damage than the ulti. Luckily you can only cast it every 5-6 seconds if you weave your light attacks properly

HoffmannTheBest

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I've not heard of either of your first two abilities. Maybe the names are incorrect? My main is a NB and played him for years and I know of no such ability that deals damage equal to the ultimate damage.

I don't know what they are called correctly in English

silky_soft

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

Some of the Nightblade's abilities are very strong, allowing the Nightblade to kill one after another without stopping.

For example:
The "Sneak Strike" ability deals damage equal to the damage of the ultimate. If the ultimate can be used once every few seconds, depending on the speed of gaining super ability points, then this skill can be spammed endlessly, dealing 8-10k damage, in combination with "Shadow Shroud" this damage increases several times, about "Shadow Shroud" will be below.

The "Shadow Shroud" ability is extremely effective for destroying the enemy and escaping from attack. In fact, the Nightblade can kill an enemy in a crowd and go invisible without receiving any damage, and then return and kill someone again. I personally encountered Nightblade spamming both enemy teams with the combination of "Sneak Strike" + "Shadow Shroud" + "Sneak Strike" + "Shadow Shroud" + "Mortal Strike".
If no one on the team has the "Magic Light" ability, then it is impossible to defeat such a combination.

I suggest the following:
Increase the duration of the "Shadow Shroud" ability by 2-3 seconds, but at the same time give a debuff after detection or damage, preventing the use of the ability for 3 seconds, or while taking damage. This will make it possible to counter the spam of the combination I described above.

Increase the time between guaranteed critical strikes for "Sneak Strike" abilities to 6 seconds, or link the guaranteed critical strike to the "Shadow Shroud" ability.

Impen + rally cry to passive defend against crits.

What is your latency you play at? Because that's just a low ping nightblade. It's how pvp works.

The game is tuned for 0ms. The closer you are to 0 the easier the game is for you. If they are sub 50ms and your 100+ you got no hope. They are just playing the game while you are still waiting for a reply from the server to update your client.

HoffmannTheBest

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Sluggy

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

NArt

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

I believe, or rather I see, that you are very weak. Has anyone told you about such mechanics as "blocking an attack" or "rolling"?

NArt

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

GeneralGrundmann

@NArt

Hi!

Could you please explain to me what you mean with this sentence?

"Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win."

Are there ESO PvP tournaments with players earning there living with playing these tournaments?

Or what is your understanding of the term "professional players"?

HoffmannTheBest

NArt wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

I believe, or rather I see, that you are very weak. Has anyone told you about such mechanics as "blocking an attack" or "rolling"?

Did anyone tell you that blocking only works for attacks in front of you, and that damage from behind is the same?)
And that there is a small delay between rolls, which can easily accommodate a spam ability with 14k damage, which has no cooldown or delay?)

NArt wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

If a future nerf doesn't fix the situation, then it would be necessary to introduce invisibility detection potions that lasted for several minutes, but could only be consumed once per battle.

The whole problem with the Nightblade is not the damage, but the cheating invisibility, through which no damage passes, and which resets the auto-guidance of the ultimate during the cast, like the Arcanist's ultimate with a homing beam or the Archer's ultimate, when the arrows fly at the enemy themselves. In fact, this is an excessively powerful buff, in addition to increasing the crit. In fact, the Nightblade resets all homing, gains immunity to damage while under the effect of the ability, and also gets a crit boost. Too much for one ability. He should simply become invisible, while all damage should pass while he is invisible, and so that he can be brought out of invisibility by dealing damage blindly, plus homing abilities should not stop attacking if he goes invisible, this is magic, and magic does not care about some invisibility.

NArt

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

@NArt

Hi!

Could you please explain to me what you mean with this sentence?

"Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win."

Are there ESO PvP tournaments with players earning there living with playing these tournaments?

Or what is your understanding of the term "professional players"?

Professional players are those who play PvE only to get sets. The rest of the time they spend in PvP. Only in PvP. and on their class in PvP they play several thousand hours (5000+)
You may not know, but we (on the European PC server) hold tournaments with a prize pool of 30-50 million gold for 1st place. These tournaments are broadcast on YouTube. Such players come to these tournaments, 20-30 people. They are divided into pairs and the winners fight with the winners. No one has ever won a dozen+ tournaments on Night Blade. Not even in the top 10. And on Necromancer too. Dragon Knights, Sorcerers, Paladins win. And you, draw a conclusion about the class, having played 100 hours in PvP in total.

NArt

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

I believe, or rather I see, that you are very weak. Has anyone told you about such mechanics as "blocking an attack" or "rolling"?

Did anyone tell you that blocking only works for attacks in front of you, and that damage from behind is the same?)
And that there is a small delay between rolls, which can easily accommodate a spam ability with 14k damage, which has no cooldown or delay?)

NArt wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

If a future nerf doesn't fix the situation, then it would be necessary to introduce invisibility detection potions that lasted for several minutes, but could only be consumed once per battle.

The whole problem with the Nightblade is not the damage, but the cheating invisibility, through which no damage passes, and which resets the auto-guidance of the ultimate during the cast, like the Arcanist's ultimate with a homing beam or the Archer's ultimate, when the arrows fly at the enemy themselves. In fact, this is an excessively powerful buff, in addition to increasing the crit. In fact, the Nightblade resets all homing, gains immunity to damage while under the effect of the ability, and also gets a crit boost. Too much for one ability. He should simply become invisible, while all damage should pass while he is invisible, and so that he can be brought out of invisibility by dealing damage blindly, plus homing abilities should not stop attacking if he goes invisible, this is magic, and magic does not care about some invisibility.

I read what you write and it becomes scary. You do not understand the game at all, like many other PVE players. But you are very active in form and because of you the developers make wrong decisions and introduce stupid things into the game.
Block WORKS from the back and from the side. The block has INSTANT application. Incapa 0.4 sec. Block 0.0001 sec.
Invisibility creates problems only for very very very very weak players. Playing against strong players, invisibility is an absolutely useless skill. Against top players in a duel, I use invisibility 1-3 times in 10 minutes, because it is a waste of resources.
EXAMPLE, a player went invisible, and the Dragon Knight hits the place where he was with his breath. He deals damage, and the night blade simply spends 3500 mana and breaks out of invisibility. More invisibility - more breath. And the night blade has 0 mana 0 health. I can list the abilities that ignore invisibility, the list will be more than 40 abilities of different classes.

NArt

A normal Guardian. The player has 35,000 health. I have 25,000 armor, 5% minor defense, 8% defense against created spells. And here is the damage to me in a duel. Let me remind you, you CANNOT dodge the bugs. Northern Storm breaks out of invisibility and deals 5500 damage per second. An example of a duel with those whom I call "professional players" out of 10 duels 10 losses, because physically on the weak class of the Night Blade you can't do anything. Let me remind you that you don't need to save up 5 stacks of beetles, unlike the Nightblade Arrow

NArt

Here is an example of a duel with a sorcerer. Let me remind you that it is impossible to dodge teleportation. The ultimate ability is on + Psijic Attack = 16500 damage in 1 second. Then Teleportation, which deals damage ignoring block and evasion, you are stunned, and you are dealt 12600 damage with a crystal. We get 16500 + 3600 + 12600 = 32700 damage in 3 seconds, 1 second of these 3 you are in control. Also, the sorcerer has a shield of 20,000 and he can simply fly away if he feels that he is losing. INVISIBILITY does not save from this. Teleportation ignores invisibility and tears you out of it

NArt

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

HoffmannTheBest

NArt wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

I believe, or rather I see, that you are very weak. Has anyone told you about such mechanics as "blocking an attack" or "rolling"?

Did anyone tell you that blocking only works for attacks in front of you, and that damage from behind is the same?)
And that there is a small delay between rolls, which can easily accommodate a spam ability with 14k damage, which has no cooldown or delay?)

NArt wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

If a future nerf doesn't fix the situation, then it would be necessary to introduce invisibility detection potions that lasted for several minutes, but could only be consumed once per battle.

The whole problem with the Nightblade is not the damage, but the cheating invisibility, through which no damage passes, and which resets the auto-guidance of the ultimate during the cast, like the Arcanist's ultimate with a homing beam or the Archer's ultimate, when the arrows fly at the enemy themselves. In fact, this is an excessively powerful buff, in addition to increasing the crit. In fact, the Nightblade resets all homing, gains immunity to damage while under the effect of the ability, and also gets a crit boost. Too much for one ability. He should simply become invisible, while all damage should pass while he is invisible, and so that he can be brought out of invisibility by dealing damage blindly, plus homing abilities should not stop attacking if he goes invisible, this is magic, and magic does not care about some invisibility.

I read what you write and it becomes scary. You do not understand the game at all, like many other PVE players. But you are very active in form and because of you the developers make wrong decisions and introduce stupid things into the game.
Block WORKS from the back and from the side. The block has INSTANT application. Incapa 0.4 sec. Block 0.0001 sec.
Invisibility creates problems only for very very very very weak players. Playing against strong players, invisibility is an absolutely useless skill. Against top players in a duel, I use invisibility 1-3 times in 10 minutes, because it is a waste of resources.
EXAMPLE, a player went invisible, and the Dragon Knight hits the place where he was with his breath. He deals damage, and the night blade simply spends 3500 mana and breaks out of invisibility. More invisibility - more breath. And the night blade has 0 mana 0 health. I can list the abilities that ignore invisibility, the list will be more than 40 abilities of different classes.

The fact that they are nerfing your favorite imbalance means that they are doing everything right. If you don't like it, then they are doing it three times right.

NArt

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

I believe, or rather I see, that you are very weak. Has anyone told you about such mechanics as "blocking an attack" or "rolling"?

Did anyone tell you that blocking only works for attacks in front of you, and that damage from behind is the same?)
And that there is a small delay between rolls, which can easily accommodate a spam ability with 14k damage, which has no cooldown or delay?)

NArt wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

If a future nerf doesn't fix the situation, then it would be necessary to introduce invisibility detection potions that lasted for several minutes, but could only be consumed once per battle.

The whole problem with the Nightblade is not the damage, but the cheating invisibility, through which no damage passes, and which resets the auto-guidance of the ultimate during the cast, like the Arcanist's ultimate with a homing beam or the Archer's ultimate, when the arrows fly at the enemy themselves. In fact, this is an excessively powerful buff, in addition to increasing the crit. In fact, the Nightblade resets all homing, gains immunity to damage while under the effect of the ability, and also gets a crit boost. Too much for one ability. He should simply become invisible, while all damage should pass while he is invisible, and so that he can be brought out of invisibility by dealing damage blindly, plus homing abilities should not stop attacking if he goes invisible, this is magic, and magic does not care about some invisibility.

I read what you write and it becomes scary. You do not understand the game at all, like many other PVE players. But you are very active in form and because of you the developers make wrong decisions and introduce stupid things into the game.
Block WORKS from the back and from the side. The block has INSTANT application. Incapa 0.4 sec. Block 0.0001 sec.
Invisibility creates problems only for very very very very weak players. Playing against strong players, invisibility is an absolutely useless skill. Against top players in a duel, I use invisibility 1-3 times in 10 minutes, because it is a waste of resources.
EXAMPLE, a player went invisible, and the Dragon Knight hits the place where he was with his breath. He deals damage, and the night blade simply spends 3500 mana and breaks out of invisibility. More invisibility - more breath. And the night blade has 0 mana 0 health. I can list the abilities that ignore invisibility, the list will be more than 40 abilities of different classes.

The fact that they are nerfing your favorite imbalance means that they are doing everything right. If you don't like it, then they are doing it three times right.

Our communication is built in a funny way. I give you facts and figures - you give me nonsense. This is not my favorite class, this is the weakest class. They are already weakening the weak. You have not answered any of my questions above. Because there is nothing to answer.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

GeneralGrundmann

Thanks for the detailed explanations NArt.

Sluggy

NArt wrote: »

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

Well mass hysteria seems to ignore block pretty good for me.

Do you have an examples where you defeated these opponents using these other classes? That would go a long way toward making your argument. As far as tornmanents go, I've never heard of one that even allows nightblades to use the invisiblity morph of cloak (although I don't really play in them so maybe some do?). Finally, there's tons of options other than just spamming invisibility every time you get into trouble. Did you know that they can perma block and mitigate almost all damge without even investing into defensive sets? Lately, I've been enjoying my NB and I am terrible at the class and usually prefer DK. But right now NB is literally just immortal in a 1v1 unless I get a massive lag spike and even 2v1 or 3v1 there needs to be some siege or a lot of coordinated stuns and ulti dumps to take me down.

Galeriano2

NArt wrote: »

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

Kinda unfair comparison tbh. Hitting whip with 3 stacks is not the same as spamming suprise attack/concealed weapon. 3 stacks whip is more like a merciless resolve proc. You need to work for it and it can only occur once in a while, in the matter of fact spamming whip will cause You to never get that 11,5k hit. And when we copmpare 3 stacks whip to merciless than in terms of damage winner is pretty clear. And yes whip can be dodged even when it's used right after pterify. If anything is the issue though is that after it is dodged the stacks are not being lost so DK can mash the button until empowered version of whip will land and consume stacks or buff runs out.

As for nightblade abilities that ignore core defenses Yuu have a mass hysteria which is undodgable+unblockable AoE stun that also applies major cowardice to enemies. You also have undodgable power extraction, one of the best AoE abilities in the game. People don't demand to remove nightblade from the game. They're just kinda tired of seeing how much forgiving stealth playstyle has become which lead game into a proc meta with almost 1/3 of population being nightblades. Calling nightblade a weak class and at the same time accusing others for not knowing the game is a bit contradictory.

Galeriano2

NArt wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

I claim that it will still be one of the most popular classes same as it is right now. Simple change of using 2h on backbar with siphoning attack+rally allows almost infinite cloaking on both mag and stam nightblade and nulifies the cloak changes turning them into an adventage in certain areas. Developer's streams and duel tournament arguments are kinda silly. Stealth based nightblade has never been good at this due to how stealth playstyle works. Brawlerblades though are doing pretty nice job there. As for dev's streams they pretty much never had a stream where they would be going great on any class. Nightblade does not have unblockable damage abiltiies in his kit because it would be kinda broken in combination with cloak. Templar's spear and sorc's streak are not doing that much damage also, they're mostly used for different pusposes. Especially in sorc's streak case, damage portion is put there just so there would be some secondary effect.

Fighters guild ability has low range and slow tick intervals allowing range based nightblades and fast enough meele nightblades to almost ignore it. Like all revealing abilities it's also quite expensive and have a short duration for both detection and stealth prevention.

Ability from support branch is a ground based AoE so when it lays on the ground nightblades sees it and can avoid it and when it lands more often than not it won't hit the area where nightblade currently is hiding.

Nobody uses that poison, it's pretty much useless.

Yes potion allows You to see nightblade for 15 seconds but it has a 45 seconds cooldown so nightblade just need to survive for 15 seconds while using his other defenses which are pretty strong. Also potion user is nerfing himself by not using a potion with another more well rounded third effect like additional resource restore or crit chance etc so nightblade basically needs to just survive 15 seconds against weakened enemy.

There is no need for a posion that prevents sorc from cloaking. You can just use WASD buttons combined with sprint or gap closers or mist form to chase that sorc effectively and nulify his streaking. Especially now after minor expedition became more accesible for everyone with scribing sorc's mobility effectiveness starts to slowly diminish.

There is no need for a potion that blocks healing. Dealing damage is natural nulifier of healing.

Same as with heals to nulify shields You just need high enough damage pressure. While current state of shields is not the most balanced that doesn't change the fact that in their core they're designed to be nulified by damage.

There are no natural counters to cloak though. Everything requires specific investments that You wouldn't invest in otherwise and each of these investments is a sacrifice. And all of that while cloak has no natural built in drawbacks in nightblade's kit. You complain about sorcs but even this class has drawbacks like caps on shields, ramping cost on streak and cast time on dark deal. Nightblade in the past had a natural drawback of no acces to spamm,able burst heals but that has changed so new drawbacks are now needed and in all honesty that new change to cloak isn't even that harsh considering how easily it can be worked around.

NArt

Sluggy wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

Well mass hysteria seems to ignore block pretty good for me.

Do you have an examples where you defeated these opponents using these other classes? That would go a long way toward making your argument. As far as tornmanents go, I've never heard of one that even allows nightblades to use the invisiblity morph of cloak (although I don't really play in them so maybe some do?). Finally, there's tons of options other than just spamming invisibility every time you get into trouble. Did you know that they can perma block and mitigate almost all damge without even investing into defensive sets? Lately, I've been enjoying my NB and I am terrible at the class and usually prefer DK. But right now NB is literally just immortal in a 1v1 unless I get a massive lag spike and even 2v1 or 3v1 there needs to be some siege or a lot of coordinated stuns and ulti dumps to take me down.

A) Mass Hysteria.
let's calculate the effectiveness of mass hysteria. Number of effects
1) Control
2) mass control for everyone
3) not blocked
4) can't be dodged
5) puts -430 weapon power on the enemy
but if the enemy is immune, then you just spend 4000 mana. For example, the Dragon Knight's control has more useful effects and you can't press the button if the enemy is immune. It's like a built-in hint.
compare with the Sorcerer's Teleportation Ability
1) Teleports 15 meters. Gives the ability to be unkillable in battle, simply by flying away from the battle, pressing teleportation twice
2) Damage
3) Mass damage to all
4) damage cannot be dodged
5) damage cannot be blocked
6) Control
7) Mass control to all
8) It is impossible to block control
9) It is impossible to dodge control
Yes, these effects should be counted separately, because the game has analogs of abilities from which there are ways to protect.
And so we get 4 effects against 9 effects. AND the fact that the sorcerer, if the enemy has immunity, applies other useful features of the ability. And the NB just wastes 4000 mana.


that's the problem, that there is



These are screenshots of how I killed opponents playing as the Dragon Knight. On the Night Blade, I could not kill these opponents. Let me remind you, on the Night Blade I play 7500 hours and tried all possible builds. On the Dragon Knight, I played 50 +- hours no more. And here is the result.
Regarding the rest of what you wrote - you played against very weak inexperienced opponents. You will never kill 2 other equal opponents on other classes with 1 night blade. But with 1 night blade in theory you can kill 2 slightly weaker night blades.

NArt

Galeriano2 wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

Kinda unfair comparison tbh. Hitting whip with 3 stacks is not the same as spamming suprise attack/concealed weapon. 3 stacks whip is more like a merciless resolve proc. You need to work for it and it can only occur once in a while, in the matter of fact spamming whip will cause You to never get that 11,5k hit. And when we copmpare 3 stacks whip to merciless than in terms of damage winner is pretty clear. And yes whip can be dodged even when it's used right after pterify. If anything is the issue though is that after it is dodged the stacks are not being lost so DK can mash the button until empowered version of whip will land and consume stacks or buff runs out.

As for nightblade abilities that ignore core defenses Yuu have a mass hysteria which is undodgable+unblockable AoE stun that also applies major cowardice to enemies. You also have undodgable power extraction, one of the best AoE abilities in the game. People don't demand to remove nightblade from the game. They're just kinda tired of seeing how much forgiving stealth playstyle has become which lead game into a proc meta with almost 1/3 of population being nightblades. Calling nightblade a weak class and at the same time accusing others for not knowing the game is a bit contradictory.

I don't blame you for anything in this particular matter. You didn't know. I myself recently found out - a few months ago. Any spam attack after control hits 100% ignoring evasion. I don't know if you can open the video or notт https://vk.com/im?sel=785971375&w=history785971375_video&z=video785971375_456239573/72fa14ecb83fb6cc28 3 minutes 57-59 seconds. After the control, my character rolls and dies. After many tests, we found out that after the Dragon Knight's Flight and after the Dragon Knight's petrification, the spam attack ignores the enemy's dodge if you press it right away. This is not written anywhere in the game, but it works((((

You are talking about Mass Fear - this is the worst control in the game. You have to manually calculate 7 seconds of enemy immunity, and if you miscalculate, you give the ability to immunity and just waste resources and lose 1 second of the fight. Controls on other classes give additional effects that compensate for the inability to apply control. And with the Dragon Knight, you simply cannot press control while the enemy is immune.
In addition, Mass Fear is even worse than Fear from the Vampire tree.
Nightblade has an arrow and a spam ability. Dragon Knight just has a spam ability that replaces Nightblade's 2 abilities. How cool is that? And the arrow has 5 stacks, while Dragon Knight's ability has 3. You can dodge the arrow, but you can't dodge the knight's whip after control. 100% hit rate. It's really not correct to compare them!!

NArt

Galeriano2 wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

How much damage does Nightblade's ultimate deal (very last damage):




How much damage does a normal spam ability do:



Does anyone still believe that Nightblade is a weak class?)

Nobody has claimed that Nightblades were a weak class in PvP in maybe half a decade now. And even then it was only magblades specifically. Like, silky_soft mentioned, you need to invest in a lot more passive defense to survive stuff like this (hence the reason most players now walk around with 40k+ hp and as much armor and damage mitigation as they can suffer) and even then if the person you are fighting has great internet and you don't, and they are good at playing the class, the best you can hope for is to survive long enough for some help to come along.

I claim that Nightblade is a dead class. I have 7500 hours on Nightblade PVP. Please show me a PVP tournament with professional players where Nightblade would win. Please show me that the developers played Nightblade and killed everyone on stream. Please show me which Nightblade ability deals damage ignoring enemy block (like Paladin's Spear, Sorcerer's Teleport). Please show me at least 1 more ability in the game, like Invisibility, which has so many counters.
A lot of damage that takes the enemy out of invisibility. Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch
A poison on a weapon that prevents invisibility for a few seconds
A potion that allows you to see the enemy for 15 seconds.
I have a question. Please tell me:
What poison prevents the sorcerer from teleporting?
What potion blocks all healing for the Paladin for 15 seconds?
What Ability prevents the Arcanist from using shields? Not counting the sorcerer's antimagic?

I claim that it will still be one of the most popular classes same as it is right now. Simple change of using 2h on backbar with siphoning attack+rally allows almost infinite cloaking on both mag and stam nightblade and nulifies the cloak changes turning them into an adventage in certain areas. Developer's streams and duel tournament arguments are kinda silly. Stealth based nightblade has never been good at this due to how stealth playstyle works. Brawlerblades though are doing pretty nice job there. As for dev's streams they pretty much never had a stream where they would be going great on any class. Nightblade does not have unblockable damage abiltiies in his kit because it would be kinda broken in combination with cloak. Templar's spear and sorc's streak are not doing that much damage also, they're mostly used for different pusposes. Especially in sorc's streak case, damage portion is put there just so there would be some secondary effect.

Fighters guild ability has low range and slow tick intervals allowing range based nightblades and fast enough meele nightblades to almost ignore it. Like all revealing abilities it's also quite expensive and have a short duration for both detection and stealth prevention.

Ability from support branch is a ground based AoE so when it lays on the ground nightblades sees it and can avoid it and when it lands more often than not it won't hit the area where nightblade currently is hiding.

Nobody uses that poison, it's pretty much useless.

Yes potion allows You to see nightblade for 15 seconds but it has a 45 seconds cooldown so nightblade just need to survive for 15 seconds while using his other defenses which are pretty strong. Also potion user is nerfing himself by not using a potion with another more well rounded third effect like additional resource restore or crit chance etc so nightblade basically needs to just survive 15 seconds against weakened enemy.

There is no need for a posion that prevents sorc from cloaking. You can just use WASD buttons combined with sprint or gap closers or mist form to chase that sorc effectively and nulify his streaking. Especially now after minor expedition became more accesible for everyone with scribing sorc's mobility effectiveness starts to slowly diminish.

There is no need for a potion that blocks healing. Dealing damage is natural nulifier of healing.

Same as with heals to nulify shields You just need high enough damage pressure. While current state of shields is not the most balanced that doesn't change the fact that in their core they're designed to be nulified by damage.

There are no natural counters to cloak though. Everything requires specific investments that You wouldn't invest in otherwise and each of these investments is a sacrifice. And all of that while cloak has no natural built in drawbacks in nightblade's kit. You complain about sorcs but even this class has drawbacks like caps on shields, ramping cost on streak and cast time on dark deal. Nightblade in the past had a natural drawback of no acces to spamm,able burst heals but that has changed so new drawbacks are now needed and in all honesty that new change to cloak isn't even that harsh considering how easily it can be worked around.

Please understand my messages correctly. I do NOT want Nightblade to be the strongest in the game. I do NOT want at least 1 class to be the strongest in the game. I want everyone to be equal. To have a 50% loss rate and a 50% win rate - against equal opponents in any direction of the game (battlegrounds/duels, etc.) This is what distinguishes me from other whiners on the forum ))
If I enter battlegrounds where PVE opponents have 16-20k HP, I leave. I am not interested in playing 30 wins 0 deaths.
But against equal opponents, Nightblade loses in all directions.
If I see 2 dragon knights (or 2 sorcerers) on the Flag in the Imperial City - I leave. If I see 2 nightblades, I go and kill them both. Because I know how weak they are.
The potion gives 15 seconds of seeing the enemy and 10 seconds of immunity to control and 7500 mana. This is enough to tear the enemy of the Night Blade into pieces. Show me a potion that also works against another class????

Are you afraid of gankers?? Just stand still and press the block button. And no Ganger will kill you on any game server. And if you press another ability (of which there are many) or a potion to see the invisible, you will kill him in 5 seconds.
Sorcerers (I am talking only about strong players) had 2 weak points - little energy (stamina) and no explosive healing. Then they were given shields that are equal to the number of lives, and crafted spells were introduced. Which are better than the explosive healing of the Night Blade and the spam attack, which costs 2500 mana and gives 600 mana and 600 energy (stamina). Now the Sorcerer has no weak points. They simply do not exist.

There are many poisons and potions in the game that kill camouflage. Nightblade without camouflage = empty space. There are many, many abilities that ignore invisibility. There are abilities that prohibit invisibility
Ability from the Mages Guild branch
Ability from the Fighters Guild branch
Ability from the military Support branch

And this is all against ONE invisibility ability. At the same time, any class can have invisibility with the help of an alliance potion (15 seconds) with the help of the 4th stage of the vampire, or just squatting.

You support the nerf of the ability against which the game has the largest number of counteractions, and which is not strong.

You are talking about the sorcerer's 33% penalty. Good. But by pressing teleportation 2 times, you will be 30 meters from the enemy in 2 seconds, and at the same time in 1 press the enemy will be in control. The enemy will not be able to do anything to you while being 30 meters from you. No need to press more. My record on the sorcerer is 7 teleportations in a row = 105 meters.
When I press invisibility, and you press AoE damage, I spend 4000 mana and come out of invisibility. Mana burns out. But on the sorcerer you move and become unreachable.

Sluggy

You're missing some key points that I think are important.

Mass hysteria can be used from invisibility at any time. The sorc and DK get exactly one shot at that before it's known they are there whereas the Nightblade can continue to make attempts from any direction every six seconds as long as they are crafty enough to avoid detection. This plays very well into team-based tactics where you can instigate a stun just before your allies push in for a kill. And while it's not technically part of the skill on paper, fear is extremely strong due to how buggy its interaction with breakfree is during any kind of lag. I rarely ever see people break from it before I can turn around and strike at least once if not twice. It also doesn't require targeting - also pretty handy in lag. If you're concerned about wasting 4k mana due to immunity might I suggest - not pressing the button? Not that it matters anyway, the only real loss is that of a GCD. Nightblades can't run out of resources, there's no other class that has completely passive near-perfect sustain with zero investment outside of slotting a single skill.

Finally, comparing one specific skill doesn't mean the whole class is somehow behind others. We could also compare Siphoning Strikes to Sorc's Dark Deal and make similar assumptions that somehow sorc is in a bad spot and not at all capable of competing with anything because we haven't taken the whole class as a package deal. Asymmetrical balance means some aspects of a class kit might be worse than others when compared in isolation but in a grander scheme of things they fit in to their spot just fine. Otherwise it's all be the same and there would be no point in chosing.

At the end of the day you have the strongest repeating class spammable with passive defense and mobility attached. The highest damage single-target attack in the game. Infinite sustain. Passive healing. Guaranteed on-demand crits. A mag-based dodge roll (for a few weeks more anyway). Invisibility on demand. Teleporting. And two of the strongest heals in the game. I'm not sure where all of that leads one to think that the most popular and consistently overall best-performing PvP class is somehow not good. But it seems to me that if you are interested in dueling then you should build different and specifically for it. You can't take an run-of-the-mill ganker into a duel against someone else that is clearly built for that sole purpose and expect to perform well. The whole point of ganking is that they aren't supposed to know you are there.

I'd suggest this: Put on a sword and shield, two infused block cost reduction glyphs, and Dark Cloak and Healthy Offering, Defensive posture. Stack up until you have at least 40-45k hp and then see if they can still kill you. Don't worry about damage. You can still wear any set combo you want with this setup and as long as you pull off your combo and they don't defend against it you'll lay the hurt on them. I've been doing it all weekend and having a blast. I'm pretty sure there's at least a few people on PC NA now that are just walking the other way when they see me because they think I'm actually a troll tank. I'm actually wearing nothing but damage sets.

NArt

Sluggy wrote: »

You're missing some key points that I think are important.

Mass hysteria can be used from invisibility at any time. The sorc and DK get exactly one shot at that before it's known they are there whereas the Nightblade can continue to make attempts from any direction every six seconds as long as they are crafty enough to avoid detection. This plays very well into team-based tactics where you can instigate a stun just before your allies push in for a kill. And while it's not technically part of the skill on paper, fear is extremely strong due to how buggy its interaction with breakfree is during any kind of lag. I rarely ever see people break from it before I can turn around and strike at least once if not twice. It also doesn't require targeting - also pretty handy in lag. If you're concerned about wasting 4k mana due to immunity might I suggest - not pressing the button? Not that it matters anyway, the only real loss is that of a GCD. Nightblades can't run out of resources, there's no other class that has completely passive near-perfect sustain with zero investment outside of slotting a single skill.

Finally, comparing one specific skill doesn't mean the whole class is somehow behind others. We could also compare Siphoning Strikes to Sorc's Dark Deal and make similar assumptions that somehow sorc is in a bad spot and not at all capable of competing with anything because we haven't taken the whole class as a package deal. Asymmetrical balance means some aspects of a class kit might be worse than others when compared in isolation but in a grander scheme of things they fit in to their spot just fine. Otherwise it's all be the same and there would be no point in chosing.

At the end of the day you have the strongest repeating class spammable with passive defense and mobility attached. The highest damage single-target attack in the game. Infinite sustain. Passive healing. Guaranteed on-demand crits. A mag-based dodge roll (for a few weeks more anyway). Invisibility on demand. Teleporting. And two of the strongest heals in the game. I'm not sure where all of that leads one to think that the most popular and consistently overall best-performing PvP class is somehow not good. But it seems to me that if you are interested in dueling then you should build different and specifically for it. You can't take an run-of-the-mill ganker into a duel against someone else that is clearly built for that sole purpose and expect to perform well. The whole point of ganking is that they aren't supposed to know you are there.

I'd suggest this: Put on a sword and shield, two infused block cost reduction glyphs, and Dark Cloak and Healthy Offering, Defensive posture. Stack up until you have at least 40-45k hp and then see if they can still kill you. Don't worry about damage. You can still wear any set combo you want with this setup and as long as you pull off your combo and they don't defend against it you'll lay the hurt on them. I've been doing it all weekend and having a blast. I'm pretty sure there's at least a few people on PC NA now that are just walking the other way when they see me because they think I'm actually a troll tank. I'm actually wearing nothing but damage sets.

From your messages I see that you have not played Night Blade. Or you have only played against weak opponents. Circle of Protection (Ring of Preservation morph) and control from the Vampire tree act the same as Night Click Fear, are cheaper and available to all classes, and provide more useful effects. That's what I'm talking about, all Night Blade abilities are replaced by regular ones available to everyone, and better. About the bug with interrupting control - this bug affects all types of control when you have full stamina, but you cannot break the control. Unfortunately, everyone has it. Night Blade and Necromancer are the two classes that use hard control the least, because it is inconvenient.

To kill a strong enemy you must be fully equipped with damage sets
Here is an example: I have 8000 weapon power, 25,000 enemy armor penetration, 55% critical chance, 120% critical damage efficiency (Balorgh 500+ Order's Wrath+ Sea-Serpent's Coil + Stygian as an example, provided that everything worked out to the maximum). I hit the enemy with Incapacitating Strike + Grim Focus, and hit, dealing 9,000 +12,000 critical damage. This is provided that I miraculously hit him!!! He did not dodge or block. He just has a Rallying Cry set (-25% critical damage) which simply kills the Nightblade Class. The enemy has 30,000 -35,000 health, gets up and heals.
If you play with a shield, or with a bow or staff to attack, you won't be able to kill anyone. A spam attack will do 3,000 damage, an arrow will do 5,000 damage. I tried to rebuild all the options and to play without invisibility too - there are no options for a decent game. Let's say I'm a bad Nightblade player. Okay))) But in 5 years of playing, I haven't seen a single Nightblade with 40,000 health and dressed in protective kits who could kill anyone on their own. If I saw such people, I would immediately ask how they play. But they just don't exist.

Sluggy

I don't know about duels but Circle of Protection is pretty rare in open-field since it has position desync issues. Probably less of a problem in duels since you can't move so much. As for the vampire stun: I have never seen anyone use that. It's so bad that it barely even works against stationary NPCs! But regardless of how you feel about that one skill it doesn't change the fact that overall you still have a really great class kit. Make use of it! You're not a necromancer after all! (Now, there's a class that actually has something to complain about!)

Listen, not every build is going to accel at every kind of fight. Just because you're having trouble in pre-planned 1v1 duels where no outside factors can come in doesn't mean that the class you play is completely worthless. You're going to have to adapt to the scenario or find a scenario that is more suited to the style you are trying to play.

Galeriano2

NArt wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

Kinda unfair comparison tbh. Hitting whip with 3 stacks is not the same as spamming suprise attack/concealed weapon. 3 stacks whip is more like a merciless resolve proc. You need to work for it and it can only occur once in a while, in the matter of fact spamming whip will cause You to never get that 11,5k hit. And when we copmpare 3 stacks whip to merciless than in terms of damage winner is pretty clear. And yes whip can be dodged even when it's used right after pterify. If anything is the issue though is that after it is dodged the stacks are not being lost so DK can mash the button until empowered version of whip will land and consume stacks or buff runs out.

As for nightblade abilities that ignore core defenses Yuu have a mass hysteria which is undodgable+unblockable AoE stun that also applies major cowardice to enemies. You also have undodgable power extraction, one of the best AoE abilities in the game. People don't demand to remove nightblade from the game. They're just kinda tired of seeing how much forgiving stealth playstyle has become which lead game into a proc meta with almost 1/3 of population being nightblades. Calling nightblade a weak class and at the same time accusing others for not knowing the game is a bit contradictory.

I don't blame you for anything in this particular matter. You didn't know. I myself recently found out - a few months ago. Any spam attack after control hits 100% ignoring evasion. I don't know if you can open the video or notт https://vk.com/im?sel=785971375&w=history785971375_video&z=video785971375_456239573/72fa14ecb83fb6cc28 3 minutes 57-59 seconds. After the control, my character rolls and dies. After many tests, we found out that after the Dragon Knight's Flight and after the Dragon Knight's petrification, the spam attack ignores the enemy's dodge if you press it right away. This is not written anywhere in the game, but it works((((

You are talking about Mass Fear - this is the worst control in the game. You have to manually calculate 7 seconds of enemy immunity, and if you miscalculate, you give the ability to immunity and just waste resources and lose 1 second of the fight. Controls on other classes give additional effects that compensate for the inability to apply control. And with the Dragon Knight, you simply cannot press control while the enemy is immune.
In addition, Mass Fear is even worse than Fear from the Vampire tree.
Nightblade has an arrow and a spam ability. Dragon Knight just has a spam ability that replaces Nightblade's 2 abilities. How cool is that? And the arrow has 5 stacks, while Dragon Knight's ability has 3. You can dodge the arrow, but you can't dodge the knight's whip after control. 100% hit rate. It's really not correct to compare them!!

Interresting considering that somehow I am able to dodge whips even after being stunned with petrify or leap.

You don't have to calculate anything. CC immunity have a graphical indicator that is pretty easy to notice. You can perfectly know when enemy is and isn't immune to CCs just by looking at his character.
Mass hysteria is one of the best stuns in the game when used properly. Saying that vamp stun is better is just completly wrong.
Going by Your logic dmg wise nb have 1 ability that replaces almost whole DK's combo so how fair is that. And You can't use whip as spammable if You want to use it as burst ability. Also it's kinda irony to accuse other classes for having abilities with multiple effects when nightblade currently is a class stacked the most with strong secondary effects in his class kit.
While merciless requires 5 stacks and DK's whip only 3 keep in mind that building stacks for merciless doesn't cost You resources, doesn't lower Your dmg pressure potential during stack building and stacks can last infinitly in combat when DK's stacks require to use abilities other than whip that deal less dmg and cost resources plus they will drop off if DK won;t refresh them. Merciless also have 2x higher dmg scaling than whip so even after reaching 3 stacks whip still has noticably lower tooltip than merciless which more than compensates more stacks required to shot merciless, especially if wer also include the heal that merciless can provide. I agree that comparing ability that can hit for 11,5k to an ability that have potential to hit 20k+ is not correct.

NArt

Galeriano2 wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

6942 a lot of damage from the spam ability of the Night Blade a lot??? And how do you like the whip at 11500? Let me remind you that you can't dodge Petrification, and after it, 100% damage is dealt by the Dragon Knight's spam attack (it cannot be dodged programmatically, even if you broke control in 0.001 seconds). deep breath 6381, it cannot be dodged and it ignores invisibility. Flames of Oblivion deals damage passively.

tell me, what abilities of the night blade ignore block and evasion. "Boba, but there are NO!" )) And after all this they demand to weaken the weak class. WELL, remove the night blade from the game.

Kinda unfair comparison tbh. Hitting whip with 3 stacks is not the same as spamming suprise attack/concealed weapon. 3 stacks whip is more like a merciless resolve proc. You need to work for it and it can only occur once in a while, in the matter of fact spamming whip will cause You to never get that 11,5k hit. And when we copmpare 3 stacks whip to merciless than in terms of damage winner is pretty clear. And yes whip can be dodged even when it's used right after pterify. If anything is the issue though is that after it is dodged the stacks are not being lost so DK can mash the button until empowered version of whip will land and consume stacks or buff runs out.

As for nightblade abilities that ignore core defenses Yuu have a mass hysteria which is undodgable+unblockable AoE stun that also applies major cowardice to enemies. You also have undodgable power extraction, one of the best AoE abilities in the game. People don't demand to remove nightblade from the game. They're just kinda tired of seeing how much forgiving stealth playstyle has become which lead game into a proc meta with almost 1/3 of population being nightblades. Calling nightblade a weak class and at the same time accusing others for not knowing the game is a bit contradictory.

I don't blame you for anything in this particular matter. You didn't know. I myself recently found out - a few months ago. Any spam attack after control hits 100% ignoring evasion. I don't know if you can open the video or notт https://vk.com/im?sel=785971375&w=history785971375_video&z=video785971375_456239573/72fa14ecb83fb6cc28 3 minutes 57-59 seconds. After the control, my character rolls and dies. After many tests, we found out that after the Dragon Knight's Flight and after the Dragon Knight's petrification, the spam attack ignores the enemy's dodge if you press it right away. This is not written anywhere in the game, but it works((((

You are talking about Mass Fear - this is the worst control in the game. You have to manually calculate 7 seconds of enemy immunity, and if you miscalculate, you give the ability to immunity and just waste resources and lose 1 second of the fight. Controls on other classes give additional effects that compensate for the inability to apply control. And with the Dragon Knight, you simply cannot press control while the enemy is immune.
In addition, Mass Fear is even worse than Fear from the Vampire tree.
Nightblade has an arrow and a spam ability. Dragon Knight just has a spam ability that replaces Nightblade's 2 abilities. How cool is that? And the arrow has 5 stacks, while Dragon Knight's ability has 3. You can dodge the arrow, but you can't dodge the knight's whip after control. 100% hit rate. It's really not correct to compare them!!

Interresting considering that somehow I am able to dodge whips even after being stunned with petrify or leap.

You don't have to calculate anything. CC immunity have a graphical indicator that is pretty easy to notice. You can perfectly know when enemy is and isn't immune to CCs just by looking at his character.
Mass hysteria is one of the best stuns in the game when used properly. Saying that vamp stun is better is just completly wrong.
Going by Your logic dmg wise nb have 1 ability that replaces almost whole DK's combo so how fair is that. And You can't use whip as spammable if You want to use it as burst ability. Also it's kinda irony to accuse other classes for having abilities with multiple effects when nightblade currently is a class stacked the most with strong secondary effects in his class kit.
While merciless requires 5 stacks and DK's whip only 3 keep in mind that building stacks for merciless doesn't cost You resources, doesn't lower Your dmg pressure potential during stack building and stacks can last infinitly in combat when DK's stacks require to use abilities other than whip that deal less dmg and cost resources plus they will drop off if DK won;t refresh them. Merciless also have 2x higher dmg scaling than whip so even after reaching 3 stacks whip still has noticably lower tooltip than merciless which more than compensates more stacks required to shot merciless, especially if wer also include the heal that merciless can provide. I agree that comparing ability that can hit for 11,5k to an ability that have potential to hit 20k+ is not correct.

you ignored the most important thing - numbers.
1) You will never deal 20k damage with an arrow to a strong enemy. 12k is the limit. If you did, then most likely it was a very weak enemy. You can accelerate an arrow to 30,000 against them. But the same dragon knight will deal 20k damage with a whip to such an enemy
2) The control + spam attack combo is not dodged. The NB arrow is not a spam attack, you can always rain it. What's the point of even 12k damage if the usual defensive mechanics of the game save you from it, when it does not save you from the whip.
3) If you do not want to test for yourself that after control (and its immediate break and subsequent somersault), the whip deals 100% damage and ignores the somersault, like any spam attack, for example, vampire claws or any other. Then I can offer you a bet. I choose the Dragon Knight, and you choose any class, we go into a duel and I hang petrification and give a whip, and you try to break free and do a somersault. If I'm wrong - I give you 2 million gold, if you're wrong - you give me 1 million gold. Interesting?
4) After the Dragon Knight's ultimate ability "Flight", if the enemy did not have time to block, then the next attack goes ignoring the somersault.

Points 3 and 4 are the most important. This is what I'm writing about. The point is in the combination, which makes it possible to inflict 100% damage to the enemy, not giving a chance to defend themselves. The Night Blade does not have this ability. You can press Fear and spam the NB attack, but you cannot give fear and press the arrow, or give fear and press the ult. And ult + arrow = in 1000 cases out of 1000 (against good players with good ping for you and the enemy) you will not be able to implement it. The enemy will always be able to do a somersault from the arrow.
At the highest levels, NB does not even use this combination, because it does not work, it is useless against strong opponents. But Flight + whip is used, because it guarantees damage. They especially like to give Flight when the enemy does a somersault. Somersaulting against the Dragon Knight = death. And let me remind you, the Dragon Knight's ult gives as much damage as the NB ult. The whip is almost the same in damage as the arrow.