More uses for companions

Syldras · August 20

Being a forum regular, I have seen countless threads complaining about companions not being useful enough.

So to change this, I suggest to add the following companion functions to the game:

Companions should be able to...
- carry our stuff.
- carry torches, candles or lanterns to provide a light source in dark dungeons.
- be pushed into hallways to trigger traps (traps should be deactivated after being triggered by companion).
- be shot against targets with a portable catapult or cannon (please take note of the attached illustration).

Also, Bosmer player characters should be able to eat their companion. But only once.

What other important purposes should companions be able to be utilized for?

Attachments

(I'm sorry that, just like the average Bosmer, this post is a little short.)

ESO_player123 · August 20

- Be able to stand on pressure plates, pull levers.

"I'm sworn to carry your burdens." - Lydia

Erickson9610 · August 20

Syldras wrote: »

Companions should be able to...
- carry our stuff.

I highly doubt that will happen. ZOS wants to avoid giving players more inventory slots (and Companions take up enough as it is — 12 item slots per Companion!) because players keep wanting more space, anyway.

ZOS has been making improvements to various parts of the game to remove the need for so many item slots — Reconstruction for "storing" item sets, stackable Siege Weaponry, Alliance War Repair Kits being condensed into one item, Equipment Repair Kits being condensed into one item, and so on.

I wouldn't expect Companions to be able to carry more equipment than they already do. Even those Inventory Pets only offered 5 inventory slots for the player each — don't expect a Companion to offer much more than that, if any at all.

vsrs_au · August 20

I'm playing Skyrim at the moment (lost interest in ESO, at least for now), and companions in that game are so much better, particularly with addons like 'Nether Follower Framework'. It's like the companions actually do have a life of their own: they'll interact with various objects in the game if I remain idle for long enough, e.g. sit on chairs, use smithing, provisioning, etc. tools, or just about anything else that's interactable, lean against walls, rest their elbows on low railings, etc. They'll also use torches if you ensure they have one, and it's dark enough. It basically makes the companions in ESO look like soul-less robots.

tincanman · August 21

Syldras wrote: »

Companions should be able to...
- carry our stuff.

Even carrying their own stuff (dropped companion gear) would be a big help.

I like the source of illumination (torch-wallah) suggestion, too.

kargen27 · August 21

All I want is for a companion to stay nearby. Seeing my companion doing a tumble run across the zone resetting a world boss gets irritating. Just need a toggle that allows them to roam free or keeps them within 12 meters.

And even if they don't catch any fish would be nice if they could put a line out while I'm fishing. I feel bad seeing them just standing there.

M1SHAAN · August 21

It would be great if companions could at least carry another set of their gear. Sometimes I'll want to use a companion as e.g. a healer with one character and a tank with another, and it's frustrating to need to remember to put the gear in the bank when swapping so that when I'm on the other toon I can access it. I hate it when I summon a companion only to realize they are wearing the wrong gear for that character and that the right gear is in another character's inventory so I need to relog, put the gear in the bank, relog again, get it out of the bank, swap out the gear, and then put the unequipped gear in the bank so that my other character can access it. It's a huge pain!

kargen27 wrote: »

And even if they don't catch any fish would be nice if they could put a line out while I'm fishing. I feel bad seeing them just standing there.

I think I remember reading somewhere that they intended for that to happen with Sharp, but due to technological limitations they couldn't make it work. It's too bad.

vsrs_au wrote: »

I'm playing Skyrim at the moment (lost interest in ESO, at least for now), and companions in that game are so much better, particularly with addons like 'Nether Follower Framework'.

The Skyrim followers are only really good with mods. Only a handful of vanilla followers will comment when you go to specific places, and outside that mostly have generic dialogue. They have much less meaningful customization too. I came to ESO from Skyrim (with minimal mods, I still need to try Inigo someday) and I was super impressed with the amount of lines etc. the ESO companions have. There are plenty of things that could be improved, of course, but I think they're leagues ahead of vanilla Skyrim followers.

DenverRalphy · August 21

kargen27 wrote: »

All I want is for a companion to stay nearby. Seeing my companion doing a tumble run across the zone resetting a world boss gets irritating.

There's a fix for that. If you slot a Taunt skill in your companion, don't give your companion a ranged weapons or slot skills intended to attack from a distance. Nor skills that gives them a blilnk/escape mechanic. If you slot a taunt, load them up with skills that are built for standing their ground.

Zachary_Shadow · August 21

I would love to see an update to companions. Even for carrying items, maybe give each companion 10-20 inventory slots, nothing too crazy; however, as someone else pointed out, more inventory slots seems to be something ZOS is avoiding due to database overload. I hope they are able to improve their servers/code/database to be able to introduce these QoL features one day, as companions are lacking in my opinion. I love the stories they introduce, but in combat, they are, at best, fodder. Even my tank Isobel fitted with all purple gear struggles to survive against WBs. Another update to their combat capabilities would be great; otherwise, an update to allow them to illuminate the surrounding area when in darkness would be neat and helpful.

Something else that could be helpful and not too strenuous on the servers would be sending companions on an expedition for materials and items. Think like how Genshin Impact allows players to select different expeditions and send characters, some with innate bonuses like shortening the time on the expedition, to gain certain materials over-time. As an example, maybe Sharp can be sent to gain fish for you. We already have this with the crafting hirelings, but maybe companions can be sent for more specific materials or items and the higher level they are, the higher quality items you can gain. Instead of expeditions, maybe they can be sent to do our gained crafting surveys, and they could be sent to gain all the materials from a survey instead of the player having to do each one of them.

ArchangelIsraphel · August 21

Syldras wrote: »

- carry our stuff.
- carry torches, candles or lanterns to provide a light source in dark dungeons.

I like this. If they can't carry their own stuff, I'd settle for them carrying their own gear.

I'd actually like to see a system similar to the armory implemented for them, where we can save builds for them right there on the UI, then load them in as needed. It would be beneficial if this system allowed the gear itself to be stored on the build page, or in an inventory that the companion itself has.

Since many players use them as Tank, DPS, or Healers, we could have 3 build pages, with enough storage space on the companion itself for 3 sets of gear. It would be nice if the build page and storage was separate for each companion, so that they all have their own build page/storage.

Syldras wrote: »

- be pushed into hallways to trigger traps (traps should be deactivated after being triggered by companion).

I'd also like a "stay" command to make them stand on pressure plates, or a "mimic action" command that allows them to mirror the players actions when you need to do something like pull two levers to open a door in a dungeon. I like soloing dungeons, but pressure plates and levers are always an annoyance. Pulling out a companion to yank a lever would help this.

Syldras wrote: »

- be shot against targets with a portable catapult or cannon (please take note of the attached illustration).

I solemnly swear I wont use this feature excessively to play corn hole with my companions, nor will I build a house dedicated to the purpose. Not at all.

Syldras wrote: »

Also, Bosmer player characters should be able to eat their companion. But only once.

Only once?! But what about the leftovers? >:{ What if I want some Breton with a side of sautéed Dark Elf? Mirri can still fire a bow with only one arm she'll just have to use her teeth!

Syldras wrote: »

(I'm sorry that, just like the average Bosmer, this post is a little short.)

OI, are you calling me short?! ARE YOU CALLING ME SHORT??

Tesman85 · August 21

Yes, the companions could use some more utility beyond combat. Them having an inventory, even if just for companion gear, would be great. Also, as already suggested, the player should be able to command them to stand in place, turn levers etc. so that they could be used in some dungeons that are currently unsoloable. Finally, they should be added to the armory system so that the player could save builds for them and change at need - of course, for this the inventory for them would be necessary.

ESO_player123 · August 21

Speaking of companions:
I've never been able to control them. I know that there is a combination Y + left/right click, but by default Y is assigned to companion's ultimate. And whenever I try to use Y + left click it say something along "It's no ready".

How do you do it?

TaSheen · August 21

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Speaking of companions:
I've never been able to control them. I know that there is a combination Y + left/right click, but by default Y is assigned to companion's ultimate. And whenever I try to use Y + left click it say something along "It's no ready".

How do you do it?

Probably reassign the keybind from Y to some other letter for the control key. Or maybe you can reassign the Companion ultimate keybind to some other key. I don't know as I don't use Companions.

Orbital78 · August 21

I assigned attack and retreat to back buttons on my controller. I never could get the defaults down right.

I'd like a way to quickly change gear sets and builds. Store different bound sets in those builds.

They changed IA to make them survive some fights, but I don't think they balanced newer bosses like Yoln and Thorn. Better bash ai would be great too.

TheMajority · August 21

I want better hot key binds to pull the companion away from a AOE

It's maybe not a use for companion, but I want at least one more outfit slot on them

an option to give a gift for rapport instead of doing a daily grind

a companion to go craft me food or drink buffs and bring it back to me

kind_hero · August 21

Syldras wrote: »

Companions should be able to...
- carry our stuff.
- carry torches, candles or lanterns to provide a light source in dark dungeons.
- be pushed into hallways to trigger traps (traps should be deactivated after being triggered by companion).
- be shot against targets with a portable catapult or cannon (please take note of the attached illustration).

Joke aside, I really dislike when the companions stay in red zones. This is especially annoying when fighting world bosses. They should get a fraction of the damage from a red zone, otherwise they die much easy on fights.

I could think of several things to improve them:
1) buff them with food/potions even for a few minutes, to give them extra survivability during fights
2) ability to carry companion items, so I could have them respec easy
3) on the cosmetic side, wear helmets, use personalities, and change their appearance in houses
4) ways to unlock them easier for alts and buffs to level them/get rep
5) companion sets

I like the proposal to have them use torches/lanterns. This could be available through dialogue. I would love to see them use chairs or campfires.

I_killed_Vivec · August 21

The basic principle should be that every upside has a downside, so if you want a companion you should be prepared for the downside...

Just pulling bosses out of other people's AoE isn't good enough, they could trip you up while you're fighting... and then pull the boss over to you.

Steal gold from you.

Eat all your food, take all your potions.

Sell your gear behind your back while you're busy with merchants.

Call the guards when you're stealing.

Drink your beer and steal your women.

Gabriel_H · August 21

Wait ... "more"? You mean they actually have a use?!

lardvader · August 21

Yes! All suggestions are welcome

But if they could help out in the dungeons that require 2 players that would be a great start.

Or just remove the requirements for being more than one in the dungeon....

AlienSlof · August 21

M1SHAAN wrote: »

(with minimal mods, I still need to try Inigo someday)

Inigo is AWESOME. He has 1000's of lines of dialogue and comments on what you're doing and where you are. Some of the insults he hurls at dragons are hilarious! On top of this, he's also pretty decent in a fight.

Unfortunately for ESO companions, he is the benchmark by which I judge all others. As someone has already commented, ESO companions are soulless robots.

SkaiFaith · August 21

I suppose no-one will understand me but I have my ESO plus bank full of Companion gear alone.
Player gear can be reconstructed with Transmutes but Companion gear is gone forever.
So I would REALLY appreciate if Companions could carry their gear in infinite quantities!
At least I would have the ability to use my bank back...

Syldras · August 22

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I wouldn't expect Companions to be able to carry more equipment than they already do. Even those Inventory Pets only offered 5 inventory slots for the player each — don't expect a Companion to offer much more than that, if any at all.

Well, first of all, it was a joke post, with suggestions ranging from useful to increasingly strange.

But yes, I know that ZOS doesn't want to give us more inventory space. Although I think that companion gear could become a separate category, at least, that could also be put into companions' inventories. Not endlessly, of course. But a bit of space for a few pieces of extra armor (in case we want to swap it) would already be helpful.

vsrs_au wrote: »

I'm playing Skyrim at the moment (lost interest in ESO, at least for now), and companions in that game are so much better, particularly with addons like 'Nether Follower Framework'. It's like the companions actually do have a life of their own: they'll interact with various objects in the game if I remain idle for long enough, e.g. sit on chairs, use smithing, provisioning, etc. tools, or just about anything else that's interactable, lean against walls, rest their elbows on low railings, etc. They'll also use torches if you ensure they have one, and it's dark enough. It basically makes the companions in ESO look like soul-less robots.

Actually when companions for ESO were first announced, I expected them to be like the ones in Skyrim (maybe minus the inventory space). I was a bit disappointed when I realized that their comments are much more generic (they are - they don't even make a difference whether you walk into a Dwemer ruin, a vampire lair, a mine, etc, things that many followers in Skyrim would distinguish). Even without mods, the Skyrim companions have more specific commentary on the environment. I actually even expected more than that from Mirri and Bastian, considering it's only 2 companions and not over 50 like in Skyrim (even taking into consideration that Bethesda had much more time to develop Skyrim, than ZOS has for one chapter of ESO, of course). Then again, we can't even use most furniture in ESO...

No matter how weird that might sound, the best companions I ever came across in a TES game were for Morrowind. And those were user-created mods. In particular, I remember one that commented on every quest, every place (including every single room of a ruin), even on the weather, had a many hours long personal questline including several side quests, was included into npc dialogues, fought quite well (you could train him in every skill that existed in the game), could carry torches, had a reasonably sized inventory... The amount of work that went into that mod must have been insane. I also used him as a pack mule, of course, but the most fun thing was actually the roleplay part.

Syldras · August 22

@ArchangelIsraphel

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I solemnly swear I wont use this feature excessively to play corn hole with my companions, nor will I build a house dedicated to the purpose. Not at all.

The telekinesis spell in Skyrim was quite nice for that. Well, you could only threw buckets and bread an such things, unfortunately; with companions, it would certainly have been even more fun.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Only once?! But what about the leftovers? >:{ What if I want some Breton with a side of sautéed Dark Elf? Mirri can still fire a bow with only one arm she'll just have to use her teeth!

I should have been more precise: You can't eat the same part over and over (or at least you shouldn't) - unless it's an Argonian, of course. They do grow back their tails, don't they? Which would mean an endless supply of Argonian tail meat (and leather)...

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

OI, are you calling me short?! ARE YOU CALLING ME SHORT??

Well, of course I do, my little friend. If you disagree, come here. You know where my wizard tower is located. But be careful not to drown on your way - the puddles of Zafirbel Bay are quite deep. For a Bosmer, at least. And no, you can't just send yourself inside a parcel, even if you easily fit into one, that's just not appropriate for a duel! Also, you'll have to hurry, as I'll be on my way to the Summerset Isles soon. Important business to do. (Note to myself: Maybe I'll own 2 Bosmer soon. Contrive a plan in case Bosmer #1 gets jealous).

Just to make sure: This is no trolling or personal attack, but consensual banter.

M1SHAAN · August 22

Syldras wrote: »

Actually when companions for ESO were first announced, I expected them to be like the ones in Skyrim (maybe minus the inventory space). I was a bit disappointed when I realized that their comments are much more generic (they are - they don't even make a difference whether you walk into a Dwemer ruin, a vampire lair, a mine, etc, things that many followers in Skyrim would distinguish). Even without mods, the Skyrim companions have more specific commentary on the environment. I actually even expected more than that from Mirri and Bastian, considering it's only 2 companions and not over 50 like in Skyrim (even taking into consideration that Bethesda had much more time to develop Skyrim, than ZOS has for one chapter of ESO, of course). Then again, we can't even use most furniture in ESO...

I took all this way too seriously and decided to do a deep dive into the differences between Skyrim and ESO's companion dialogue implementations, hooray! I am definitely not procrastinating writing my dissertation by writing this instead.

Data Selection
I'm going to trust UESP's documentation of companion lines, though there are some inconsistencies in what is documented (e.g. Mjoll's page includes her combat and recruitment dialogue etc. while Erandur's does not). I'm also going to exclude quest-related dialogue because we aren't comparing the quality of quests, just companion/follower implementation.

Most of the followers in Skyrim have absolutely no unique dialogue, sharing combat barks etc. with everyone else with their voice type. Followers who have unique dialogue include Mjoll, Erandur, Serana, Teldryn Sero, and the other hirelings. For this study I looked at the UESP pages for Mjoll (who has the most complete-seeming dialogue documentation) and Teldryn (who seems to comment on the most places).

On the ESO side I looked at Bastian, for three reasons: 1) he's my favorite, 2) nearly everyone else hates him and thinks he's repetitive, and 3) He's a first-generation companion so his dialogue pool is likely smaller than the newer companions.

Results
I looked at three metrics in this study: total lines of companion/follower dialogue, number of unique dialogue triggers, and number of location-based dialogue triggers. Here a 'dialogue trigger' is any action or condition in the game that can cause the companion to say a line from a corresponding dialogue pool. Examples include selecting different dialogue options in their dialogue menu and entering a Dwemer ruin. The counts were as follows:
Total lines of follower dialogue: Mjoll 72, Teldryn 64*, Bastian 305
Unique dialogue triggers: Mjoll 37, Teldryn 49*, Bastian 66
Location-based dialogue triggers: Mjoll 17, Teldryn 35, Bastian 8

Bastian's total lines of dialogue and unique dialogue triggers surpass his Skyrim counterparts by a large margin. If these metrics were a good predictor of perceived character depth, given player sentiment we qualitatively would expect the opposite results. Therefore we conclude that maximizing total lines and dialogue triggers is not sufficient to produce a 'deep' character.

Notably, Bastian has less than half as many location-based dialogue triggers as Mjoll or Teldryn. Of these, only two are unique locations (Eyevea and Wayrest) and the rest are categories of place. Instead, most of Bastian's unique dialogue triggers are focused on player actions or events during combat (e.g. he or the player being low health, the player being stunned, the player stealing). This supports the above quoted hypothesis that the ESO companions' perceived lack of depth is due to their lack of commentary on specific locations (which is something later ESO companions did improve upon to some degree). In other words, their awareness of combat and other situations is nullified by their seeming lack of awareness of their surroundings.

*Teldryn's uesp page didn't include information about his combat dialogue, so this number is an undercount.

TL;DR
More lines of dialogue in more situations is not enough for companion depth; more remarks on specific places are necessary.

Syldras · August 22

M1SHAAN wrote: »

More lines of dialogue in more situations is not enough for companion depth; more remarks on specific places are necessary.

Over 300 lines for Bastian is much more than I thought. It indeed shows that quantity isn't the main aspect. Generic content seems generic - quelle surprise

I think more location-specific dialogue indeed would help to make companions seem more alive, more realistic - not just some soulless thing you carry around. Everything that contributes to the illusion that they are aware of their surroundings probably helps. Also interaction with furniture would fall into that category. Everything that makes them interact with the world more.

vincentxavier · August 22

kargen27 wrote: »

All I want is for a companion to stay nearby. Seeing my companion doing a tumble run across the zone resetting a world boss gets irritating. Just need a toggle that allows them to roam free or keeps them within 12 meters.

And even if they don't catch any fish would be nice if they could put a line out while I'm fishing. I feel bad seeing them just standing there.

On the PlayStation if you hold R3 and L3 and tap L2, it will cause you companion to disengage combat and come to you. Doing so will bring the boss back to you.

ArchangelIsraphel · August 24

Syldras wrote: »

The telekinesis spell in Skyrim was quite nice for that. Well, you could only threw buckets and bread an such things, unfortunately; with companions, it would certainly have been even more fun.

Windhelm shall never forget the generosity of the Dragonborn! Well, I thought throwing cabbage and cheese was generous. They thought I'd gone mad.

Syldras wrote: »

I should have been more precise: You can't eat the same part over and over (or at least you shouldn't) - unless it's an Argonian, of course. They do grow back their tails, don't they? Which would mean an endless supply of Argonian tail meat (and leather)...

Infinite tail meat and leather, eh? I see a plentiful business opportunity on the horizon! Hey Sharps, I need to talk to you about something, no, no, I'm not going to try to eat you again, promise...

Syldras wrote: »

Well, of course I do, my little friend. If you disagree, come here. You know where my wizard tower is located. But be careful not to drown on your way - the puddles of Zafirbel Bay are quite deep. For a Bosmer, at least. And no, you can't just send yourself inside a parcel, even if you easily fit into one, that's just not appropriate for a duel! Also, you'll have to hurry, as I'll be on my way to the Summerset Isles soon. Important business to do. (Note to myself: Maybe I'll own 2 Bosmer soon. Contrive a plan in case Bosmer #1 gets jealous).

*Contemplates an elaborate plan to hijack a siltstrider, because stealing a giant bug is so much better than just asking for a ride* You see? I told you I'm not short. I'm almost as tall as your tower now. AND I got through the bay without sinking this time!

There's totally no way he's gonna get me up here!

(This is made even funnier by the fact that my bosmer, even on the tallest sliders, does actually sink in the puddles around the Zafirbel Bay...while my friends playing altmer and khjaiit don't XD)

Syldras wrote: »

Just to make sure: This is no trolling or personal attack, but consensual banter.

100%, If you see us bantering, it's never serious. All in good fun!

opalcity · August 24

I would love it if I could send a companion off to do a Survey. They would be unable to be summoned for a whole day, I don't mind, and they'll harvest at whatever level the character who sends them off is at.

Max two companion surveys a day, just to be fair.

Syldras · August 24

@ArchangelIsraphel - Dreamsleeve transmission incoming --

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Windhelm shall never forget the generosity of the Dragonborn! Well, I thought throwing cabbage and cheese was generous. They thought I'd gone mad.

In my case, they thought nothing. They couldn't see what I was doing, after all. No one that wears a bucket over their head can. Fourth Era fashion was insane.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Infinite tail meat and leather, eh? I see a plentiful business opportunity on the horizon! Hey Sharps, I need to talk to you about something, no, no, I'm not going to try to eat you again, promise...

Ask him how long it takes to regrow. We have to estimate how many Argonians we would need for a continuous flow. I doubt that one is enough for a permanent tail meat and leather store, and we do need a permanent store, as you can't sell Argonian goods for upmarket prices at a simple marketplace stall! Oh, I already see it before me... A store for fine exotic leather goods - belts, coin purses, gloves... Maybe we should market mainly to wealthy Imperials? I heard they love these things. Either this, or maybe bookbinding? Or, no... No, that wouldn't be that exclusive. I'm quite sure there are many people here in Sadrith Mora who, uhm, already have their grimoires bound in Argonian leather. Anyway, I get the first harvest, it was my idea after all! Also, I need new boots. And maybe a new case for my shaving tools.

Oh, and we also have to discuss what we're doing with the bones. Might they have the right size for dice? And no, I'm not suggesting to open a casino in the Ashlands.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

(This is made even funnier by the fact that my bosmer, even on the tallest sliders, does actually sink in the puddles around the Zafirbel Bay...while my friends playing altmer and khjaiit don't XD)

I'll have to teach you levitation one day.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

100%, If you see us bantering, it's never serious. All in good fun!

Yes. Even if you hear about a certain Telvanni kidnapping a certain Bosmer one day - it's all in good fun! Kidnappings are (at least sometimes) a sign of affection among us House Dunmer!

Also, this is not off topic, as we have obviously discussed many profitable uses for Argonian "companions".

(Typos, so many typos...)

Mik195 · August 24

I don't know how difficult the programming would be, but I'd like the companion dialog to avoid making certain comments about animals - "you're going to regret this" - no, it's a mudcrab, I'm fairly sure they aren't going to be doubting their decision to fight you. And it bothers me when a Companion heckles a skeever or wasp, just seems unprofessional.

They should be able to stand on plates (Direfrost).

M1SHAAN · August 31

Syldras wrote: »

Over 300 lines for Bastian is much more than I thought. It indeed shows that quantity isn't the main aspect. Generic content seems generic - quelle surprise I think more location-specific dialogue indeed would help to make companions seem more alive, more realistic - not just some soulless thing you carry around. Everything that contributes to the illusion that they are aware of their surroundings probably helps. Also interaction with furniture would fall into that category. Everything that makes them interact with the world more.

Circling back to this thread because I just found two more lines of dialogue that Bastian has that weren't documented on UESP (he can say 'Very clever' and 'You're full of surprises' after you use the antiquarian's eye at a dig site - truly character-defining, I know).

It really does show how quantity doesn't equal quality, and even beyond the quality of the dialogue pool, the distribution of the voice lines they do have is seriously messed up. They had his VA record so many lines, but I feel like 90% of the time it's the same 10% over and over

He only has three lines for entering a city and it seems like they fire nearly 100% of the time; he also has three lines for summoning a non-combat pet, which most players will do much less often than entering a city, and I struggled to get even one to fire when I was actively trying to hear them! It just doesn't make sense.