Isobel the fake tank....

AvalonRanger

Isobel the fake tank....

Do we really need another companion NPC for the future?
They're almost fake role, just same as non combat pet character.
That's Isobel is weaker than my DD character, even with all purple heavy gear.
Can't treat HarrowStorm as tank.

I don't want to do baby sitter role for the useless companion anymore.

Lugaldu

There are a lot of things in this game that make you personally wonder if you need more of them. Some will say "yes, definitely!", others... well...

JiubLeRepenti

Lugaldu wrote: »

There are a lot of things in this game that make you personally wonder if you need more of them. Some will say "yes, definitely!", others... well...

I agree.

I've never found a decent use in companions. I guess roleplay players will find it "cool" to have a follower you can speak with.

But in order to achieve mid/high level content they are really pointless, not matter how you equip them.

Was quite happy to see they didn't add any new companion with Gold Road tbh.

Syldras

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't want to do baby sitter role for the useless companion anymore.

How about just don't using them then?

EdjeSwift

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

There are a lot of things in this game that make you personally wonder if you need more of them. Some will say "yes, definitely!", others... well...

I agree.

I've never found a decent use in companions. I guess roleplay players will find it "cool" to have a follower you can speak with.

But in order to achieve mid/high level content they are really pointless, not matter how you equip them.

Was quite happy to see they didn't add any new companion with Gold Road tbh.

Not my experience. I've had companions heal veteran dungeons and tank them as well. A properly built AND supported companion can do quite well, but, as designed, will not be as good as a seasoned player. HOWEVER, they can be much better than SOME players.

TybaltKaine

I've never had problems with any of my companions tanking any content. Using the recall commands ahead of mechanics avoids the "standing in stupid" issue that most run into. Properly built, controlled and supported companions are fine.

AcadianPaladin

I too, have very good results with my tank companion (Mirri) and quite enjoy the teamwork she and my elf have developed in combat. I find her particularly helpful when we solo WBs or group dungeons for her ability to hold taunt on bosses, allowing my elf to maintain a cleaner / less interrupted rotation. The price we pay is generally maintaining a HoT on the companion and having a somewhat bursty 'heal other' skill available. I find it well worth the 'babysitting' and, as a soloist, very much enjoy the fact that companions: stay in character all the time, are available to play whenever I want with no coordination, and don't mind a bit if I step away to make a sandwich.

While I understand that not every aspect of the game is to everyone's liking, I very much enjoy the companion system and look forward to, not necessarily more companions, but more depth to the the one's we have in terms of personality/dialogue, immersive interactions and, yes, some tweaks to their AI in combat.

AvalonRanger

Syldras wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't want to do baby sitter role for the useless companion anymore.

How about just don't using them then?

LoL, agree... Isobel suck up all my magika resource only for her healing, and make me dead body.
I really want to use my real tank character as companion.

Orbital78

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I've never had problems with any of my companions tanking any content. Using the recall commands ahead of mechanics avoids the "standing in stupid" issue that most run into. Properly built, controlled and supported companions are fine.

I agree of the most part, but I have seemed to run to issues or bugs where they won't re-engage with taunt correctly. The system could use some tweaks.

For the original poster: look up the crafted set Telvanni Efficiency and the quickened trait.

katanagirl1

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I don't want to do baby sitter role for the useless companion anymore.

How about just don't using them then?

LoL, agree... Isobel suck up all my magika resource only for her healing, and make me dead body.
I really want to use my real tank character as companion.

I first set up Bastian as tank and he does well on s&b. I didn’t have as much luck with Isobel, she died much more often.

He’s wearing blue vigorous gear.

oldbobdude

I like both Isobel and Azander as tank. Just blue equipment with 4 quickened, 4 bolstered and 4 vigorous. They last much better at level 20 though.

Marko21xx

Little off topic here but I think companions should know how to bash when necessary.. if addons know when you need to do that.. it wouldn't be impossible to add..

Pelanora

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I've never had problems with any of my companions tanking any content. Using the recall commands ahead of mechanics avoids the "standing in stupid" issue that most run into. Properly built, controlled and supported companions are fine.

I've never managed to get that to work. It just wants to fire off the ultimate.

Zodiarkslayer

My Isobel only dies, if I can't clear the floor quick enough. Big Boss AdWaves are her Achilles heel.
Other than that almost everything else, even DLC WBs and Dungeons without heavy mechanics are manageable. Some even enjoyable.

I have the distinct impression that three years after their release, there are lot of players, that are still not able to set them up properly.
There are some comprehensive guides and threads on the forums. Everyone has access. This shouldn't be an issue.

This is the best guide on the web, imo.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620245/companions-basics-traits-and-mechanics

C_Inside

One has to wonder what the point of companions is when Ring of the Pale Order exists, fills the same purpose, and does its job far better than any of the companions. You can argue that you can use both, but why would you waste time leveling a companion when Pale Order alone is more than enough to solo everything that needs soloing?

Some of their perks are nice I guess. Mirri, Azandar, and Isobel's ones give you more loot, though Azandar's one procs very rarely and Isobel's one requires killing world bosses, which you won't be doing because they drop trash loot and give very low experience. And Sharp's one is super nice when there is a fishing endeavor.

Pelanora

I've figured out a line up of skills for Ember that means we synch well and it's fun to feel like you're playing in a combo WITH someone, working together, not just alongside them. That's why I keep her.

redlink1979

AvalonRanger wrote: »

(...) That's Isobel is weaker than my DD character, even with all purple heavy gear. (...)

Which traits are you using?

fred4

It's hardly a surprise, is it? Companions are not cut out for veteran content. I took mine into vet Shipwright's Regret once, to the first boss, and did a bunch of experiments with Telvanni Efficiency. Useless. They die in any role.

There is a skill that turns them invisible and sheds all aggro, if they fall below X amount of health. Obviously not a tanking skill. That said, it also makes them invulnerable for 6 seconds. You can get the cooldown down very low with Telvanni and all Quickened. Problem is, they don't move. If an AOE is killing them, and that AOE is still around when they return, it will still kill them. Harrowstorms are pretty intense as far as movement, so it's no surprise they should die in those too.

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I've never had problems with any of my companions tanking any content. Using the recall commands ahead of mechanics avoids the "standing in stupid" issue that most run into. Properly built, controlled and supported companions are fine.

I admit, I have tried everything except for controlling my companions, because I hate the gameplay between the pet key and the mouse buttons. Between that and having to throw them some healing now and then, I find them not worth the hassle. This is especially true if you're sacrificing a whole armor set, e.g. to wear Telvanni Efficiency.

I am, however, not complaining. Due to ESO AI being what it is, companions have some strengths as well as weaknesses. For example their blocking is perfect and they never run out of stamina. If they could truly substitute for a player tank, this would IMO be very bad for the game.

TybaltKaine

I do speak from the perspective of a controller user, so when I say "control them" I understand that it doesn't apply to everyone equally.

I don't wear any specialty sets when using companions and prefer to just use traits on their armor that fit their roles. I find that they work with my playstyle, as I keep an aoe burst heal slotted most times just for ease of switching between content as far as PVP and PVE.

The Vanish skill from the medium armor line is very useful for Tanks and DD's alike as it gives them an invuln phase like @fred4 mentioned.

I've also run into the "standing around" problem when they taunt or when mobs get split up and combat technically ends but doesn't really, if that makes sense. Like if two or three of a mob of 8 dies, they will stand around and I have to order them to re-engage.

As far as a companion vs Pale Order, I run Oakensoul because my arthritis makes switching bars an issue. I've got a very simplified bar that doesn't require Guitar Hero timing to fight and holding heavy attack allows me to stay mobile. It can be tricky to issue commands with HA builds on a controller but is far easier than trying to play "Through the Fire and Flames" every time combat kicks off.

Syldras

C_Inside wrote: »

One has to wonder what the point of companions is when Ring of the Pale Order exists, fills the same purpose, and does its job far better than any of the companions.

They serve as a roleplaying device and another different way for storytelling. That they can also aid the player in fights is a side-effect.

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

One has to wonder what the point of companions is when Ring of the Pale Order exists, fills the same purpose, and does its job far better than any of the companions.

They serve as a roleplaying device and another different way for storytelling. That they can also aid the player in fights is a side-effect.

And besides, not everyone builds their Companions to be healers. If you're farming for mob drops, maybe it's better to set up a Companion with AoE damage abilities with one or two execute abilities on slots 1 or 2. Ring of the Pale Order also doesn't hold aggro or bash enemies for you, so that's another aspect to consider.

But, I agree that Companions are a story/roleplay system first and a combat system second. That's a good way to think about them when you consider which parts are accountwide and which parts aren't.

fred4

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I don't wear any specialty sets when using companions and prefer to just use traits on their armor that fit their roles.

Hmm. As far as companions go, Telvanni Efficiency is a game changer. The cooldown reduction is additive with Quickened. This results in an overall cooldown reduction of upto around 80%. That resto shield at 25% health is down to 2 seconds. I think Vanish is down to something like 6.7 seconds downtime.

The Vanish skill from the medium armor line is very useful for Tanks...

I cannot possibly agree with that. In content where you actually need a tank, a "tank" who vanishes for 6 seconds and sheds aggro is not a tank. Of course, if you're just role-playing...

I've also run into the "standing around" problem when they taunt or when mobs get split up and combat technically ends but doesn't really, if that makes sense. Like if two or three of a mob of 8 dies, they will stand around and I have to order them to re-engage.

Actually the final nail in the coffin, why I don't run companions even in solo play, is how they dodge backwards and they are, therefore, the reason for splitting mobs up in the first place. It is such a waste of time.

It can be tricky to issue commands with HA builds on a controller...

On a heavy attack build I wouldn't run Telvanni Efficiency either. You need the heavy attack sets for it to work.

TybaltKaine

If your complaint about tanks is having to heal them, then Vanish is a game changer. It's a full heal and a six second peel out. If you can't kite for six seconds no tank is gonna help you.

ArchangelIsraphel

I think the real problem here is expecting a companion to function like a player does. Companions aren't "fake" anything, they're companions- they function the way they're supposed to, which means they provide players who like to play alone with an edge in certain circumstances, especially if you understand how and when to use them. But they aren't ever meant to replace a real player, nor are they meant to be as good or as functional as one.

As someone who loves to play with companions, I build my companions in a way that compliments whatever skills and build I'm using. I don't expect them to fulfill a player role. I use them for buffs, enhancements to my role, but mostly...I have them there for roleplay purposes. I just enjoy them.

But the most important thing is, I'm not reliant on the companion- my character is fully capable of doing the job without the companion at all. Companions, I find, are most effective as an enhancement that gets the job done faster, not as something you are completely reliant on to survive a fight.

If you feel you are expending too many resources to keep a companion alive through a fight, then I would look into making your character self-sufficient first and foremost, so that the companion isn't necessary for your survival.

If my companions die, they die because I've made a mistake in their setup, not because they were failing to be to be self-sufficient. I've never had to babysit a companion who was built properly/where they were built to serve as an enhancement to my character rather than being expected to fulfill a player role. (ETA: But as far as world events like dragons or harrowstorms are concerned, you're definitely going to have to pay attention to pulling them out of AOE's. They aren't particularly great in these circumstances if you are expecting them to survive with no deaths.)

I used this guide here as a basis for how I build my companions to compliment my characters build: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620245/companions-basics-traits-and-mechanics

ETA: Oops! Someone already posted that guide!

katanagirl1

How well a companion does is also going to be relative to how high your dps is and how difficult the content is. If you are only doing 5-10 dps and want a companion to tank or heal for you in a group dungeon or WB, the fight is going to take too long for them to be able to survive. That is why I don’t sacrifice my dps setup for Telvanni Efficiency.

SkaiFaith

I use Isobel Tank on my roleplay build (and with my alts) and I just had zero issues clearing Rageclaw and Sable Knight WBs; didn't even need to heal her (or myself) on the first one.

If I "solo" Harrowstorms I usually put out Bastian as a Buffer with resto staff while I tank and DPS, and he never dies, even if he's all in blue (Isobel in purple).

Tanky Isobel is also good in Infinite Archive, where she can face Dragons in first arcs and make Tho'at a breeze in the very first arc.

Sure they can't survive everything. There are intense fights that kill them, but for the most part they can do their job.
Obviously if you are in the... Let's say, top 5% of players, you probably don't really need them that much, but still they can provide something to the battle if it's not in the hardest content of the game.

Anifaas

Sharp as a tank and me as a tanky stamblade/magcro/stamarcanist (my three mains) clear Harrowstorms and hold dragons's attention in Elsweyr until more DPS arrive all the time without much trouble. Even on difficult world bosses Sharp rarely dies so long as I remember to support him. With my magcro I find all I usually have to do is just keep Spirit Guardian up and Sharp does fine. Having an emergency button (Renewing Animation) is helpful for really tough stuff but to be honest I almost never get to use it.

I had fun playing with my skills and my character's and companion setups until I found the synergies that work best for me.

Isobel is my offensive tank
Sharp is my defensive tank
Mirri is ranged dps
Bastian is melee dps
Ember is AoE
And Azander is the healer

I can always make use of the companions no matter which main or alt I am playing. Although Isobel and Ember's banter drive me crazy. Azander, Sharp and Mirri have been fantastically helpful for me. None of them were particularly useful though until I got them BIS epic gear and unlocked all the necessary guild skills. Survivability is always the first concern for all my companions, even the DPS. Works for me.

AcadianPaladin

I like Mirri and use her as a tank. She has an inherent, weaker 'vanish' ability, allowing her to wear all heavy armor. Though her disappear and heal is weaker than vanish, it is shorter. When she needs to use it, the boss immediately stops hitting her and is confused with no target for a couple seconds. By the time the boss decides that my little elf looks like a good target, a mostly healed Mirri is back in action and retaunts him. I try to keep a HoT on her all the time and slot a burst heal for her as well but there have been plenty of times when I have missed her getting low on health and that ability has kept her in the fight.

What I like about a good companion tank is that, for the price of a HoT, they allow me to deliver my damage without interruption. Almost as smoothly as vs a dummy.

BXR_Lonestar

I rarely use them so I guess if they throw in one more, its not going to make a difference for me.

ADarklore

People who have problems with companions dying, clearly don't know how to use them properly, nor want to take the time to learn HOW to use them properly. A companion is only as good as the effort put into developing them, gearing them, giving them the right skills... without effort, then yes, they will fail. Personally, I use companions all the time, as a strictly solo player, and they've never failed me.

GuuMoonRyoung

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Isobel the fake tank....

Do we really need another companion NPC for the future?
They're almost fake role, just same as non combat pet character.
That's Isobel is weaker than my DD character, even with all purple heavy gear.
Can't treat HarrowStorm as tank.

I don't want to do baby sitter role for the useless companion anymore.

How dare you insult our lesbian goddess!!

Cough... cough... ehhhmm... my apologies, lost my cool for a moment! I think the biggest problem is the companion AI. The companion AI in ESO is not on par with FF14, or even the latest WoW follower dungeon followers. If their AI were to be improved, they would be a little bit more useful.