Should ZOS introduce another campaign with new rules to combat ball group play?

Tsuriel · July 22

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Limiting heal and shield stacking would be the most effective way to even the playing field with ball groups. That ZOS hasn't even tried this after years of the hardcore PvP community asking for it is, well, a pretty good indicator of how ZOS prioritizes customer feedback. (i.e.- ZOS only listens to feedback that supports what they've already decided to do)

I'm not sure that's the case. HoT is needed for PvE and ZOS has not taken the liberty to separate PvP from PvE which in itself is a piece of work.

Deimus · July 22

Add a new campaign with no stacking HoTs and damage shields placed on other players are reduced by an additional 30% added to Battle Spirit

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I don't like running into ball groups either however are we going to penalise players who study their builds and build around being in a group? That's not really fair IMO. There are ways to counter them however you've ALSO got to be in a GROUP and spamming negates and things also. Besides how exactly are we going to stop it even if we wanted to without causing problems in other areas?

It's one thing to say hey let's limit ball groups however it's another skeever entirely to actually find a way to do it without affecting something else. There will ALWAYS be people who are just better than others in PVP in any game. Just like there are elite guilds for PVE there are elite groups for PVP. Is it a pain to have to spend twenty minutes dealing with them? Yes but it's also quite fun IMO as it challenges the other factions to get their stuff together and figure out how. I love it when my guild get together to kill them and once we get it timed right every one of them dies at the same time. BAM!

Leave it alone or we will have another Ravenwatch. There's a reason why it and NO CP IC are empty.

That wouldn't penalize them, it would actually give them more build diversity. For small scale only one person needs to slot vigor or regen and if you have a healer it will be them while the rest could drop them for other skills. For a full group with two dedicated healers they would keep their builds the same, and the others could slot skills that could help set up combos or more utility like running flare or siege shield for pushing the map.

Most non ball groups aren't stacking regen or vigor 10+ times and removing stacking HoTs and reducing shields placed on others won't kill their playstyle, but will for the players that exploit it to survive damage they have no business surviving in a balanced PvP environment. Most people that play that way aren't good at PvP or they'd be getting kills off their own builds and effort like your guild rather than exploiting the system.

For other campaigns it would be left alone so they can continue to play as they do in GH or BR, and if the population in other campaigns drops to where they follow the players to the new campaign then that sends a message to ZOS.

Deimus · July 23

Add a new campaign with no stacking HoTs and damage shields placed on other players are reduced by an additional 30% added to Battle Spirit

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

No one will play it. A handful keep asking for this while the majority have no interest in it.

Players aren't interested in PVP modes with a bunch of restrictions or stuff disabled.

This is why Ravenwatch sits empty while Gray Host has a 1hr+ que.

EDIT: Great poll language btw. Nothing says you're open to discussion like insulting and disrespecting the people that disagree with you.

I do have 0 respect for a playstyle that focuses on griefing that's only achieved via exploiting poor design from a neglected area of the game instead of actual skill and effort. Groups that tailor their builds to shore up teammates weak points and line up burst rotations or sets that create synergy require skill and practice vs a bunch of people clumped together stacking regen/ vigor and ult dumping people from a pull set. Nobody is impressed and asking about sets, discussing builds, or even saying gg after being killed by a stacked mass of players spamming the same moves and making 0 combat decisions other than get back to the ball if separated.

One creates better players and fosters a community the other just strips away the experience.

Deimus · July 23

Add a new campaign with no stacking HoTs and damage shields placed on other players are reduced by an additional 30% added to Battle Spirit

Tsuriel wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Limiting heal and shield stacking would be the most effective way to even the playing field with ball groups. That ZOS hasn't even tried this after years of the hardcore PvP community asking for it is, well, a pretty good indicator of how ZOS prioritizes customer feedback. (i.e.- ZOS only listens to feedback that supports what they've already decided to do)

I'm not sure that's the case. HoT is needed for PvE and ZOS has not taken the liberty to separate PvP from PvE which in itself is a piece of work.

They could change HoT stacking in PvP without affecting PvE by using Battle Spirit or something similar. They've done tests where they've limited the effectiveness of moves or added longer cooldowns to specific skills in PvP without altering their use in PvE.

Tiphis · July 23

Add a new campaign with no stacking HoTs and damage shields placed on other players are reduced by an additional 30% added to Battle Spirit

It's pointless to keep making these threads, zos loves them like nobody ever has and it won't change.

Solariken · July 23

IMO they should have been experimenting with different rulesets all along. It would keep the content fresh and help make Cyrodiil better.

Sadly though they abandoned the idea of Cyrodiil as ESO's endgame soon after launch.

But yes, they could try all sorts of things - heals reduced by resists/impen, no 3rd party heals at all, friendly fire AOE damage, etc etc.

xylena_lazarow · July 24

Other (comment your suggestion)

Solariken wrote: »

IMO they should have been experimenting with different rulesets all along. It would keep the content fresh and help make Cyrodiil better.

weekend events in BGs with a gimmick ruleset would be way more fun than "haha you only get CTR"

Highwayman · July 24

Other (comment your suggestion)

The way I see it is the oppressive feel of ball groups right now is 85% a population cap issue. The lower the pop cap, the less likely they will run into a scenario where they are overwhelmed.

The other 15% is some mix of lop sided faction count and the easy accessibility of bombing because of pull sets.

Raise pop cap, remove faction lock, and remove pull sets. Do that and it fixes itself. That isn't to say that people getting farmed won't still get farmed, but they may have a shot at turning the tide when the stars align.

silentxthreat · July 26

only way to fix ball groups is make it where you can only have a max of 3 hots running for one spell. this way it doesnt effect pve much. make it where zerg busting sets like vd and other proc sets dont work in groups beyond 4. they are supposed to be zerg busting not being used by the 12 person ball groups. the meta is 40k hp now so need a buff to siege damage

Durham · July 29

Add a new campaign with no stacking HoTs and damage shields placed on other players are reduced by an additional 30% added to Battle Spirit

Yes, and I will be there!

Tommy_The_Gun · July 29

Other (comment your suggestion)

Similar to option one, but just add an effect to Battle Spirit so it would limit HoTs to like 2 or 3 max of the same type. So 2 or 3 vigors max etc. Do not add addition campaign, just do it in every campaign & IC.

xDeusEJRx · July 29

Other (comment your suggestion)

This is an awful idea.

People complained about a lack of clarity and support for Ravenwatch patch by patch in regards to the sets available and usable to a point where people said "just delete this campaign if you won't support it", yet for some reason people think we should add ANOTHER campaign with specific ruleset assuming that ZOS is actually going to support and be thorough with the updating it to support it?

This makes no sense to me. The campaign will be enjoyed for about 2 weeks and people will complain it's DOA because zos will just half-ass the pvp and not properly support it patch by patch (as is evident by what happened to ravenwatch). If they couldn't support ravenwatch, I can't imagine they will support this campaign either.

I'd maybe support this idea if zos actually care enough to support PVP, however they don't so this is not a feasible idea.

Tiphis · July 29

Add a new campaign with no stacking HoTs and damage shields placed on other players are reduced by an additional 30% added to Battle Spirit

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

This is an awful idea.

People complained about a lack of clarity and support for Ravenwatch patch by patch in regards to the sets available and usable to a point where people said "just delete this campaign if you won't support it", yet for some reason people think we should add ANOTHER campaign with specific ruleset assuming that ZOS is actually going to support and be thorough with the updating it to support it?

This makes no sense to me. The campaign will be enjoyed for about 2 weeks and people will complain it's DOA because zos will just half-ass the pvp and not properly support it patch by patch (as is evident by what happened to ravenwatch). If they couldn't support ravenwatch, I can't imagine they will support this campaign either.

I'd maybe support this idea if zos actually care enough to support PVP, however they don't so this is not a feasible idea.

Zos has been half-assing all pvp for the past few years, what would even be the difference if they half-ass a new thing lol.

xDeusEJRx · July 29

Other (comment your suggestion)

Tiphis wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

This is an awful idea.

People complained about a lack of clarity and support for Ravenwatch patch by patch in regards to the sets available and usable to a point where people said "just delete this campaign if you won't support it", yet for some reason people think we should add ANOTHER campaign with specific ruleset assuming that ZOS is actually going to support and be thorough with the updating it to support it?

This makes no sense to me. The campaign will be enjoyed for about 2 weeks and people will complain it's DOA because zos will just half-ass the pvp and not properly support it patch by patch (as is evident by what happened to ravenwatch). If they couldn't support ravenwatch, I can't imagine they will support this campaign either.

I'd maybe support this idea if zos actually care enough to support PVP, however they don't so this is not a feasible idea.

Zos has been half-assing all pvp for the past few years, what would even be the difference if they half-ass a new thing lol.

Absolutely nothing, but this is not gonna make players happy. They're not gonna be thorough about it and PVP players will just eventually ask it to be axed. It usually takes PVP 6 months to 1 year to get a decent update. Masters DW, Regeneration nerf, undeath nerf, all have been complained for a year plus, and some reason we are holding onto hope that ZOS is gonna be thorough in supporting this campaign?

Like zos has to make many changes to actually completely eliminate ball groups. They have to change cross healing, ball group centric sets like snow treaders, they have to adjust movement speed (since that's also a major thing that keeps ball groups going). Not to mention zos has to update this PVP campaign specifically to function entirely diffeerent from the rest of cyrodiil.

Like I don't believe for 1 second that zos will do all of this, maybe slap 1 nerf and call it a day, then people will complain for the next 3 years for lack of coherent updates.

The more realistic thing to ask for is a universal nerf to ball groups in all pvp environments, people will just not be happy with a confusing switch of rule sets between campaigns and I doubt zos will be thorough in updating each pvp environment effectively. Just take the nerf hammer across the board.