Companions - When is it enough?

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

...the Companion quests are like any other quests in the overworld...

But they aren't. The Companions aren't something we go and do a quest for then that's the last we hear of them, like most quests in overland are. The Companions is a new system added to the game to help players as they quest etc., and gives us house guests as we gain rapport with them. We gear them up and set up builds on them.

With all the account wide changes to the game this is one that really should be added to the list. If we the player unlock a Companion once we should have the option to skip it on other characters because we the player already did it.

The Companions system is both a regular overworld quest chain (because it's acquired and completed in the same manner) and a combat system.

The combat system could be decoupled from the quest chain for future Companions and that wouldn't cause problems. For this, imagine a "blank slate" character with no story, like a Factotum or something, whose sole purpose is to fight for you in combat. Maybe it uses the Class and Racial skills of your choosing.

Such a "Companion" could easily be added to the Crown Store and be unlocked by default on all characters solely because it lacks a quest chain. Nothing of value is lost because there was nothing of value to begin with.

I won't pay for a Companion. I want to be able to skip the unlocking quests once I've done it once. That is it.

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

...the Companion quests are like any other quests in the overworld...

But they aren't. The Companions aren't something we go and do a quest for then that's the last we hear of them, like most quests in overland are. The Companions is a new system added to the game to help players as they quest etc., and gives us house guests as we gain rapport with them. We gear them up and set up builds on them.

With all the account wide changes to the game this is one that really should be added to the list. If we the player unlock a Companion once we should have the option to skip it on other characters because we the player already did it.

The Companions system is both a regular overworld quest chain (because it's acquired and completed in the same manner) and a combat system.

The combat system could be decoupled from the quest chain for future Companions and that wouldn't cause problems. For this, imagine a "blank slate" character with no story, like a Factotum or something, whose sole purpose is to fight for you in combat. Maybe it uses the Class and Racial skills of your choosing.

Such a "Companion" could easily be added to the Crown Store and be unlocked by default on all characters solely because it lacks a quest chain. Nothing of value is lost because there was nothing of value to begin with.

I won't pay for a Companion. I want to be able to skip the unlocking quests once I've done it once. That is it.

Would you want a special kind of Companion without a questline but which is unlocked on all of your characters, even if you don't have to pay for it? Think of it like an Assistant, except it's free to purchase from the Crown Store and it's truly an account-wide unlockable.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I won't pay for a Companion. I want to be able to skip the unlocking quests once I've done it once. That is it.

Would you want a special kind of Companion without a questline but which is unlocked on all of your characters, even if you don't have to pay for it?

No.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

...the Companion quests are like any other quests in the overworld...

But they aren't. The Companions aren't something we go and do a quest for then that's the last we hear of them, like most quests in overland are. The Companions is a new system added to the game to help players as they quest etc., and gives us house guests as we gain rapport with them. We gear them up and set up builds on them.

With all the account wide changes to the game this is one that really should be added to the list. If we the player unlock a Companion once we should have the option to skip it on other characters because we the player already did it.

The Companions system is both a regular overworld quest chain (because it's acquired and completed in the same manner) and a combat system.

The combat system could be decoupled from the quest chain for future Companions and that wouldn't cause problems. For this, imagine a "blank slate" character with no story, like a Factotum or something, whose sole purpose is to fight for you in combat. Maybe it uses the Class and Racial skills of your choosing.

Such a "Companion" could easily be added to the Crown Store and be unlocked by default on all characters solely because it lacks a quest chain. Nothing of value is lost because there was nothing of value to begin with.

An optional skip for companion intro quests wouldn't result in anything of value being lost. People would be 'forced' to do the quest chain once, in order to unlock the ability to skip it on additional characters, so the 'value' of the story would still exist.

Personally, I would say that 'value' is being lost by people not wanting to engage in a mechanic because of the lack of skips.

From my standpoint, it literally wouldn't matter at all who skipped the quest, because I wouldn't know. I would just know that the character I am staring at has that companion unlocked and did the quest at least once. Beyond that, it isn't really my business whether they decided to skip the quest altogether, just basically hit continue on all dialogue and killed everything in their way, or carefully made their way through the storyline thinking about each decision.

TheMajority

well, i hope they will implement things which are needed for companions.

-skip button for people who want to skip the quest that is OPTIONAL (I don't want to skip no thanks)

-companion helmets and headgear for more customization (when other people are doing the companion quest line you actually see the follower in the dungeons in a hat/hood, so companions can wear them...there is a model with hat/hood which others see to differntiate their quest follower from others)

this is my wish for companions

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I won't pay for a Companion. I want to be able to skip the unlocking quests once I've done it once. That is it.

Would you want a special kind of Companion without a questline but which is unlocked on all of your characters, even if you don't have to pay for it?

No.

That's perfectly fine. I wouldn't want a Companion who lacked a storyline, either. That's actually why I believe Companions shouldn't have an introductory quest skip.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I won't pay for a Companion. I want to be able to skip the unlocking quests once I've done it once. That is it.

Would you want a special kind of Companion without a questline but which is unlocked on all of your characters, even if you don't have to pay for it?

No.

That's perfectly fine. I wouldn't want a Companion who lacked a storyline, either. That's actually why I believe Companions shouldn't have an introductory quest skip.

I am fine doing the unlocking quest once. I even look forward to getting to know who the Companions are. But I am the one doing the quest, not my character. And I don't want to do it 7 times, especially with how long and detailed these quests have become. I really sympathize with those that have a lot more alts.

katanagirl1

I guess the reasons to do companions on each character are for role play purposes, which is fine for those who want to do that. For me and a lot of other players in this thread, we are fine doing that once and then being able to use companions on other toons without doing the intro quest again.

Why would those who do like to redo them care? I won’t lie awake at night thinking about Mirri’s family and how things got resolved. I don’t care.

All my characters can go to the same house I own and don’t wonder why someone has moved the furniture around while they’re gone.

Erickson9610

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why would those who do like to redo them care? I won’t lie awake at night thinking about Mirri’s family and how things got resolved. I don’t care.

I don't like doing the quests repeatedly, either. I've only repeated some Companion's quest one or two times on alternate characters. I can't be bothered to unlock them all on all of my characters.


In this thread, I've been arguing why it makes no sense to be able to skip the intro quest and I've been elaborating on what problems would arise if said quests could be skipped. If I could have all of my Companions unlocked on my alternate characters without needing to redo their quests, I might consider using them on my alts. I'd benefit from a Companion intro skip as much as anybody else would.

My biggest issue is that no proposed way to skip that sequence seems feasible from a lore perspective and from a gameplay perspective. I wouldn't want to prevent people from skipping the intro quest if they were given the option to (of course!) but I want to stress how unlikely it is that a skip could actually be implemented that takes all of those issues into account.


For what it's worth, this thread has been another fun debate about the feasibility of a Companion intro skip — and certainly not the last. We'll see if anything comes of the points debated in this thread in-game in the future.

spartaxoxo

I don't think it needs to make sense from a lore perspective. They've been allowing people to skip introduction quests for years. They literally just treat it like you've done the quest, narratively. I see no good reason why companion intro quests can't be treated the same.

From a gameplay perspective, there is no reason not to do it. As long as it was optional, it would be a huge quality of life boost for some players. And wouldn't change things at all for others. Literally just give people the rewards if it would cause problems not to. It's not like they are using those rewards in competition with others.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

My biggest issue is that no proposed way to skip that sequence seems feasible from a lore perspective and from a gameplay perspective. I wouldn't want to prevent people from skipping the intro quest if they were given the option to (of course!) but I want to stress how unlikely it is that a skip could actually be implemented that takes all of those issues into account.

It's not really our job to figure out how to implement any suggestions. We just put the ideas out there and ZoS are the experts that can figure it out.

But this idea would make the Companions much more readily accessible and would benefit many.

Erickson9610

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think it needs to make sense from a lore perspective. They've been allowing people to skip introduction quests for years.

Usually when an introduction quest can be skipped, there's no follow-up quest which explicitly mentions the events of the skipped quest which never happened. For instance, you can skip the intro quests to Cyrodiil, because there's no future quest which says "remember when you did x?"

Companion quests, on the other hand, reference the introduction quest all the time, especially during the final stages of the last quest when they are reminiscing on how they met your character. In this case, "remember when you did x?" wouldn't make sense, because x never happened.

spartaxoxo

Erickson9610 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think it needs to make sense from a lore perspective. They've been allowing people to skip introduction quests for years.

Usually when an introduction quest can be skipped, there's no follow-up quest which explicitly mentions the events of the skipped quest which never happened. For instance, you can skip the intro quests to Cyrodiil, because there's no future quest which says "remember when you did x?"

Companion quests, on the other hand, reference the introduction quest all the time, especially during the final stages of the last quest when they are reminiscing on how they met your character. In this case, "remember when you did x?" wouldn't make sense, because x never happened.

It did. You just didn't physically play through it.

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

My biggest issue is that no proposed way to skip that sequence seems feasible from a lore perspective and from a gameplay perspective. I wouldn't want to prevent people from skipping the intro quest if they were given the option to (of course!) but I want to stress how unlikely it is that a skip could actually be implemented that takes all of those issues into account.

It's not really our job to figure out how to implement any suggestions. We just put the ideas out there and ZoS are the experts that can figure it out.

But this idea would make the Companions much more readily accessible and would benefit many.

And I've already demonstrated some of the challenges ZOS would encounter when trying to implement this change. This gives some insight into how likely a change is, depending on what ZOS feels they should do.

While it's entirely possible that ZOS wants to implement this change, it's also possible they don't — and perhaps for the reasons I've stated.

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not really our job to figure out how to implement any suggestions. We just put the ideas out there and ZoS are the experts that can figure it out.

We are allowed to express our thoughts and give insights into matters. Why should I offer a half-baked idea to ZOS that realistically wouldn't work out? The least I could do is think through how a change might be orchestrated.

It's not our jobs to tell ZOS how to do their jobs, but I believe we should put a little thought into how our suggestions could be worked into the game as a whole. It provides a little more confidence that a change could happen, rather than blindly begging ZOS to make/revert a change for years.

Erickson9610

spartaxoxo wrote: »

From a gameplay perspective, there is no reason not to do it. As long as it was optional, it would be a huge quality of life boost for some players. And wouldn't change things at all for others. Literally just give people the rewards if it would cause problems not to. It's not like they are using those rewards in competition with others.

One of the issues regarding the gameplay mechanics of skipping an introductory quest for a quest chain is that choices made during the skipped quest have no default value. If we skipped Mirri's quest, is Liam saved or not? How would ZOS decide which outcome to grant players? Would players select that option manually?

Another issue is with the rapport system. Additional Companion quests are unlocked with high positive rapport, and we can only do the next quest in the chain even if we managed to get maximum positive rapport before completing it. If the introduction quest was put to the wayside, rather than skipped, then players could complete the Companion's other quests before circling around and completing their introduction quest. This could be fixed if the Companion always offered their introduction quest at all times until formally unlocked — but who wants to see that quest marker above their head 24/7?

JemadarofCaerSalis

Erickson9610 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think it needs to make sense from a lore perspective. They've been allowing people to skip introduction quests for years.

Usually when an introduction quest can be skipped, there's no follow-up quest which explicitly mentions the events of the skipped quest which never happened. For instance, you can skip the intro quests to Cyrodiil, because there's no future quest which says "remember when you did x?"

Companion quests, on the other hand, reference the introduction quest all the time, especially during the final stages of the last quest when they are reminiscing on how they met your character. In this case, "remember when you did x?" wouldn't make sense, because x never happened.

I mean, games have done this forever. When a sequel comes out, they usually presume some sort of knowledge of the first game, but it isn't necessary. They will often make choices that make the most sense for how they want the world building to go, and players who aren't familiar with the original can just go from there. Sometimes they will take a save game or allow players who ARE familiar with the original to make choices that affect the game world, but not always.

So, it isn't like this would be some unique, insurmountable problem. In fact, it would be quite simple to do.

When you go to meet Mirri (as an example) for the second time, you have the option to say something along the lines of 'We have already met and quested together, but a daedra cursed you.' to which Mirri can reply 'I remember now, we managed to save everyone/didn't save everyone' (or whatever the quest outcome they decide is). This would set whatever flags are needed for any other quest related to mirri there is.

Again, Lore is one of the weakest arguments against this, because there are so many things that are lore breaking in game.

As some people have pointed out, having multiple Molag Bal's running around, being able to summon daedric anchors anywhere, having multiple bastions, mirris, etc.. all running around following other players, certain mounts and pets, etc... All those things shouldn't be in game if lore were sacrosanct. Same thing with the ability to buy something from the crown store and suddenly have all this knowledge that gives you multiple skill points (skyshards), suddenly being able to master a skill line (again, buying it from the crown store), etc... None of those make any sense from a lore perspective.

And, that is fine. It doesn't have to. Those who care about lore can just ignore them, while those who have other priorities have them to help them get to the parts of the game they find fun and want to do.

Erickson9610

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

When you go to meet Mirri (as an example) for the second time, you have the option to say something along the lines of 'We have already met and quested together, but a daedra cursed you.' to which Mirri can reply 'I remember now, we managed to save everyone/didn't save everyone' (or whatever the quest outcome they decide is). This would set whatever flags are needed for any other quest related to mirri there is.

This would require new dialogue to be recorded, which may not always be possible. We have yet to see an instance of a previous Companion getting new dialogue in this game.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

When you go to meet Mirri (as an example) for the second time, you have the option to say something along the lines of 'We have already met and quested together, but a daedra cursed you.' to which Mirri can reply 'I remember now, we managed to save everyone/didn't save everyone' (or whatever the quest outcome they decide is). This would set whatever flags are needed for any other quest related to mirri there is.

This would require new dialogue to be recorded, which may not always be possible. We have yet to see an instance of a previous Companion getting new dialogue in this game.

No, it wouldn't. It could just pop up asking if the player wanted to repeat the quest. If they say yes then the quest continues exactly as before. If they say no then it just completes and the Companion is unlocked.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Erickson9610 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

When you go to meet Mirri (as an example) for the second time, you have the option to say something along the lines of 'We have already met and quested together, but a daedra cursed you.' to which Mirri can reply 'I remember now, we managed to save everyone/didn't save everyone' (or whatever the quest outcome they decide is). This would set whatever flags are needed for any other quest related to mirri there is.

This would require new dialogue to be recorded, which may not always be possible. We have yet to see an instance of a previous Companion getting new dialogue in this game.

I have seen calls for old companions getting 'updates' and new quests, which would also call for new dialogue to be recorded.

Beyond that, if this is too much to ask, just make it a crown store or, as said above, a popup with no sound at all. Someone else said just have two popups making sure someone wants to skip the quest.

it doesn't have to be complicated.

Plus, just because we haven't seen it happen yet, doesn't mean that a precedent can't be set with these skips. Maybe it could be part of the whole 'old companions getting more love with new quests and dialogue' that I have seen some people ask for.

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

When you go to meet Mirri (as an example) for the second time, you have the option to say something along the lines of 'We have already met and quested together, but a daedra cursed you.' to which Mirri can reply 'I remember now, we managed to save everyone/didn't save everyone' (or whatever the quest outcome they decide is). This would set whatever flags are needed for any other quest related to mirri there is.

This would require new dialogue to be recorded, which may not always be possible. We have yet to see an instance of a previous Companion getting new dialogue in this game.

No, it wouldn't. It could just pop up asking if the player wanted to repeat the quest. If they say yes then the quest continues exactly as before. If they say no then it just completes and the Companion is unlocked.

The context was that Mirri would reply with

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

'I remember now, we managed to save everyone/didn't save everyone' (or whatever the quest outcome they decide is).

...which would require new dialogue to be recorded. ESO very seldom has dialogue lines without voice acting, and it's unheard of for dialogue that would otherwise be spoken audibly to not be given a voice over.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Plus, just because we haven't seen it happen yet, doesn't mean that a precedent can't be set with these skips. Maybe it could be part of the whole 'old companions getting more love with new quests and dialogue' that I have seen some people ask for.

Of course new precedents can be set. But, calling voice actors back to record anything isn't always easy. That's partially why I doubt we'll actually get Companion romancing or new quests given to them.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Of course new precedents can be set. But, calling voice actors back to record anything isn't always easy. That's partially why I doubt we'll actually get Companion romancing or new quests given to them.

No one is asking for voice actors to come back and record anything new, especially with Mirri. All they would have to do is put a pop up and problem solved.

katanagirl1

Erickson9610 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why would those who do like to redo them care? I won’t lie awake at night thinking about Mirri’s family and how things got resolved. I don’t care.

I don't like doing the quests repeatedly, either. I've only repeated some Companion's quest one or two times on alternate characters. I can't be bothered to unlock them all on all of my characters.


In this thread, I've been arguing why it makes no sense to be able to skip the intro quest and I've been elaborating on what problems would arise if said quests could be skipped. If I could have all of my Companions unlocked on my alternate characters without needing to redo their quests, I might consider using them on my alts. I'd benefit from a Companion intro skip as much as anybody else would.

My biggest issue is that no proposed way to skip that sequence seems feasible from a lore perspective and from a gameplay perspective. I wouldn't want to prevent people from skipping the intro quest if they were given the option to (of course!) but I want to stress how unlikely it is that a skip could actually be implemented that takes all of those issues into account.


For what it's worth, this thread has been another fun debate about the feasibility of a Companion intro skip — and certainly not the last. We'll see if anything comes of the points debated in this thread in-game in the future.

Yeah I don’t think you get it…from a lore perspective many of us just don’t care.

We all accept things that don’t make sense gameplay wise for expedience and all of us feel differently about various things. The things I will accept will not make sense for you and vice versa.

I am glad to hear you are not opposed to the idea of unlocking companions. If there were some technical problems with skipping the second or third times the game could just default to whatever choices you made the first time. I think it has been mentioned that the one case where there were choices that it did not affect the outcome regardless of which you chose. So that just leaves the lore, so if that is important to you then you don’t skip it.

Pelanora

SilverBride wrote: »

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Turians are supposedly avian based they definitely do look more reptilian.

I always heard that birds and reptiles are related. When I googled it though I found ambiguous answers.

Ambiguous answers?
Amphibious answers?
Aeronautical answers?
Mesozoic Era answers?

Have you heard the one about the dinosaur that flew?

Erickson9610

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why would those who do like to redo them care? I won’t lie awake at night thinking about Mirri’s family and how things got resolved. I don’t care.

I don't like doing the quests repeatedly, either. I've only repeated some Companion's quest one or two times on alternate characters. I can't be bothered to unlock them all on all of my characters.


In this thread, I've been arguing why it makes no sense to be able to skip the intro quest and I've been elaborating on what problems would arise if said quests could be skipped. If I could have all of my Companions unlocked on my alternate characters without needing to redo their quests, I might consider using them on my alts. I'd benefit from a Companion intro skip as much as anybody else would.

My biggest issue is that no proposed way to skip that sequence seems feasible from a lore perspective and from a gameplay perspective. I wouldn't want to prevent people from skipping the intro quest if they were given the option to (of course!) but I want to stress how unlikely it is that a skip could actually be implemented that takes all of those issues into account.


For what it's worth, this thread has been another fun debate about the feasibility of a Companion intro skip — and certainly not the last. We'll see if anything comes of the points debated in this thread in-game in the future.

Yeah I don’t think you get it…from a lore perspective many of us just don’t care.

We all accept things that don’t make sense gameplay wise for expedience and all of us feel differently about various things. The things I will accept will not make sense for you and vice versa.

I am glad to hear you are not opposed to the idea of unlocking companions. If there were some technical problems with skipping the second or third times the game could just default to whatever choices you made the first time. I think it has been mentioned that the one case where there were choices that it did not affect the outcome regardless of which you chose. So that just leaves the lore, so if that is important to you then you don’t skip it.

The lore reasons may not be important to the individual player, but it is very important to the writers and system designers at ZOS. That's why we can't bring Companions to meet themselves, nor can we put helmets on them and change their body markings/skin/polymorph.

Again, I don't have an issue with convenience changes that are questionable from a lore standpoint, but ZOS definitely does in this case. So, it's unlikely that a Companion unlock skip would be implemented — at least not in such a direct way.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I don't have an issue with convenience changes that are questionable from a lore standpoint, but ZOS definitely does in this case.

Where did ZoS say they have a problem with this?

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Of course new precedents can be set. But, calling voice actors back to record anything isn't always easy. That's partially why I doubt we'll actually get Companion romancing or new quests given to them.

No one is asking for voice actors to come back and record anything new, especially with Mirri. All they would have to do is put a pop up and problem solved.

The person I quoted did ask for the voice actors to record new dialogue for Companions to justify skipping their first quest.


I'd rather just unlock the Companion directly from the Collections Menu, if they're not unlocked by default. That's the most appropriate place for a pop-up — and it wouldn't be in the Companion's voice, so no voice lines would need to be recorded.

Still, that would pose further problems — like how would ZOS prevent players who lack access to the zone the Companion is found in from skipping the DLC requirement by unlocking in the menu directly? If a Companion is found in High Isle, then the player needs to currently have access to High Isle (whether via ESO Plus or via DLC ownership) in order to be able to use the Companion.

But then, if a player unlocks a Companion normally while on ESO Plus, then loses ESO Plus, this change would result in the player losing access to their Companion (as the game now checks for DLC ownership before summoning the Companion, where it didn't before).

All of this is to say that even what would be a simple change to the UI to unlock Companions would result in difficult problems that somehow must be tackled.

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I don't have an issue with convenience changes that are questionable from a lore standpoint, but ZOS definitely does in this case.

Where did ZoS say they have a problem with this?

I'm glad you asked! Here:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: why are companions account wide unlocks (collection menu) but still required to be unlocked per character?
Why are the unlock quests getting significantly longer if we are required to unlock it per character? or can we get some way to bypass them if we have already unlocked them?

PD: This ties back into potential issues of bringing Mirri to unlock Mirri, but also, we know many players establish different relationship dynamics with their companions on a per character basis and the introductory quest is a key part of that, so at this time there are no plans to change that.
On the story side, there hasn't been any mandate or push to make these quests longer. The stories we want to tell are the determining factor. This is great feedback though and something we will make sure to take into account going forward.

The "bringing Mirri to unlock Mirri" part is referencing this previous question:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: I know early on when the Companion system was announced that one of the devs claimed they'd be fully new characters instead of old characters from sidequests. Are there any thoughts on diverting from this?Secondly, has a non-humanoid companion ever been thought of? Perhaps a non-humanoid Daedra, or a wild animal (dual wielding Warden bears anyone?) or even just a doggo! It'd be interesting to see ESO writers come up with interesting stories for taming an animal, or binding/"befriending" a Daedra!

PD: We are very interested in exploring and expanding the types of companions we introduce over time but there are a number of thematic and technical challenges associated with certain directions. Making companions of existing characters runs into situations where you can have an active companion on a quest involving another version of themselves. This gets even trickier as we often have characters reappearing in new content (and sometimes meeting a final end), all of which complicates companion use further. Having companions be newly introduced characters gives an opportunity for both us and the players to form a new relationship without preconceptions or past experiences coloring or limiting the dynamic.
Non-humanoid companions are an interesting avenue to explore, but in many cases would radically limit the amount of customization and combat options available, so it’s something that will take more investigation and potentially even expansion of the system to fully realize.

ZOS has expressed that they do not want players to bring multiple copies of the same character to meet one another. If a Companion unlock skip would lead to Mirri meeting Mirri, then ZOS does not want to implement it.

Pelanora

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I don't have an issue with convenience changes that are questionable from a lore standpoint, but ZOS definitely does in this case.

Where did ZoS say they have a problem with this?

I'm glad you asked! Here:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: why are companions account wide unlocks (collection menu) but still required to be unlocked per character?
Why are the unlock quests getting significantly longer if we are required to unlock it per character? or can we get some way to bypass them if we have already unlocked them?

PD: This ties back into potential issues of bringing Mirri to unlock Mirri, but also, we know many players establish different relationship dynamics with their companions on a per character basis and the introductory quest is a key part of that, so at this time there are no plans to change that.
On the story side, there hasn't been any mandate or push to make these quests longer. The stories we want to tell are the determining factor. This is great feedback though and something we will make sure to take into account going forward.

The "bringing Mirri to unlock Mirri" part is referencing this previous question:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: I know early on when the Companion system was announced that one of the devs claimed they'd be fully new characters instead of old characters from sidequests. Are there any thoughts on diverting from this?Secondly, has a non-humanoid companion ever been thought of? Perhaps a non-humanoid Daedra, or a wild animal (dual wielding Warden bears anyone?) or even just a doggo! It'd be interesting to see ESO writers come up with interesting stories for taming an animal, or binding/"befriending" a Daedra!

PD: We are very interested in exploring and expanding the types of companions we introduce over time but there are a number of thematic and technical challenges associated with certain directions. Making companions of existing characters runs into situations where you can have an active companion on a quest involving another version of themselves. This gets even trickier as we often have characters reappearing in new content (and sometimes meeting a final end), all of which complicates companion use further. Having companions be newly introduced characters gives an opportunity for both us and the players to form a new relationship without preconceptions or past experiences coloring or limiting the dynamic.
Non-humanoid companions are an interesting avenue to explore, but in many cases would radically limit the amount of customization and combat options available, so it’s something that will take more investigation and potentially even expansion of the system to fully realize.

ZOS has expressed that they do not want players to bring multiple copies of the same character to meet one another. If a Companion unlock skip would lead to Mirri meeting Mirri, then ZOS does not want to implement it.

This relates to eg me having Darrien as a companion, while I do a Darrien quest. That can't work.

But if my new alt has auto unlocked Ember, then her start quest just isn't in the game for that alt. That's all they have to do.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd rather just unlock the Companion directly from the Collections Menu, if they're not unlocked by default. That's the most appropriate place for a pop-up — and it wouldn't be in the Companion's voice, so no voice lines would need to be recorded.

Still, that would pose further problems — like how would ZOS prevent players who lack access to the zone the Companion is found in from skipping the DLC requirement by unlocking in the menu directly? If a Companion is found in High Isle, then the player needs to currently have access to High Isle (whether via ESO Plus or via DLC ownership) in order to be able to use the Companion.

But then, if a player unlocks a Companion normally while on ESO Plus, then loses ESO Plus, this change would result in the player losing access to their Companion (as the game now checks for DLC ownership before summoning the Companion, where it didn't before).

All of this is to say that even what would be a simple change to the UI to unlock Companions would result in difficult problems that somehow must be tackled.

Unlocking from the Collections menu is not ideal. The player needs to physically come face to face with the Companion to receive the pop-up and make their choice. This would be simple and intuitive to the player.

I don't see what ESO+ has to do with any of this. As far as I know players that have ESO+ and unlock a Companion don't lose them if they unsubscribe, but if they do as you stated then why would this be any different? How would skipping the unlocking quest change any of this?

spartaxoxo

That's why you just do the companion unlock when it's summoned. You already unlock Mirri's companion quest by attempting to summon Mirri. If you do that, they automatically put the quest in your log. All they'd need to do is put a pop-up when they do. And then they can just treat it the same exact way they treated in the past before they made a universal tutorial. You get all of the rewards on skipping and the game treats you as if you'd done the quest.