PTS Update 43 - Feedback Thread for Class Sets

Theist_VII

BasP wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Someone should really test Aetheric Lancer on an optimal parse to show just how horrible the set actually is, because just by reading it, I can see that it’s dead weight in execute, Templar’s strongest point right now. That wouldn’t be the case if they didn’t drop Blazing Spears from their rotation in execute, but unfortunately that skill sucks too.

Oops, I didn't even think of trying to keep up the proc with Blazing Spears. That I completely forgot about that skill shows how much I actually use my Templars on the live server. I definitely agree that it would be good if someone that could actually parse well would test the set and post the results as well. And maybe (s)he could come up with better ideas to improve it than I did, in the off chance that something will be changed before U43 drops...

Despite being terrible at parsing, I did try my hand at some parses on a Trial Dummy just now as well. Seeing as I apparently only do around 110K DPS on that Dummy - which is pretty humbling - I realize that my results aren't anything to go off. But in case anyone is interested; the difference between Deadly Strike and Aetheric Lancer still wasn't huge for me (111K vs. 112K respectively). Considering that 112K is far from the 130K+ Magplars can do, however, this doesn't say much.

If you need a good parse to replicate, here’s one by Charles using the new Highland Sentinel set instead of Aetheric Lancer…

https://youtu.be/p6D6xfpa_rc?si=2vmZHedMqoMJS9zQ
Here you could just swap between the two sets, but you will notice he stops using Blazing Spears in execute which is a large percentage of his parse damage. Maybe swap in Everlasting? Idk

Navaac223

The templar set procs sundered. One of the best status effects, but also one that is easily accessible to pve and pvp templars with power of the light. Both stamplars and magplars use it.

Maybe the sundered proc from the new set could be turned into more direct damage or another status effect, even deleting it from the set entirely would make more sense.

GoAvs34

I did a quick parse on magplar the other day if you want something to compare to. I prebuff for sustain (restoring focus, radiant aura, forward momentum, channeled accel). Max magicka food, spell power potions.

FoJul

Navaac223 wrote: »

The templar set procs sundered. One of the best status effects, but also one that is easily accessible to pve and pvp templars with power of the light. Both stamplars and magplars use it.

Maybe the sundered proc from the new set could be turned into more direct damage or another status effect, even deleting it from the set entirely would make more sense.

Or you can leave it alone and proc sundered twice giving a higher uptime?

Theist_VII

Overall not looking bad with Aetheric Lancer.

Right now it seems that Arcanist and Sorcerer are the only two classes that are getting a horrible set next update, and Arcanist’s is debatable.

They really need to take the Sorcerer set back to the drawing board, but they won’t.

Navaac223

FoJul wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

The templar set procs sundered. One of the best status effects, but also one that is easily accessible to pve and pvp templars with power of the light. Both stamplars and magplars use it.

Maybe the sundered proc from the new set could be turned into more direct damage or another status effect, even deleting it from the set entirely would make more sense.

Or you can leave it alone and proc sundered twice giving a higher uptime?

I thought status effects had a cooldown, I looked into it and apparently not.. guess we don't need to change the proc after all, thank you

FoJul

I still would like Umbral Edge, to apply major vuln to more targets somehow. But looks like we getting it how it stands.

TDVM

Buff necro pls, whatever they give him in the next patch won't help him in pvp at all in any way. The class will continue to be dead in pvp

Lalothen

I like how in the U43 reveal post they've chosen to highlight the overtuned DK ST dps set:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

Meanwhile Sorc players are in for another awful disappointment.

FoJul

Lalothen wrote: »

I like how in the U43 reveal post they've chosen to highlight the overtuned DK ST dps set:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

Meanwhile Sorc players are in for another awful disappointment.

Atleast, sorc is strong in PvP. lol

Theist_VII

FoJul wrote: »

Lalothen wrote: »

I like how in the U43 reveal post they've chosen to highlight the overtuned DK ST dps set:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

Meanwhile Sorc players are in for another awful disappointment.

Atleast, sorc is strong in PvP. lol

What? When was the last time you saw a pet sorc in PvP that wasn’t holding down heavy attacks trying to kill people with Knight Slayer?

If I recall you play a Nightblade, we both agreed that Swallow Soul needed a buff, but don’t play pretend that Nightblade isn’t at the very least tied with Sorcerer for PvP efficiency, because an optimal build for either is leagues ahead of every other class, even Dragonknight at this point.

Navaac223

Theist_VII wrote: »

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

an optimal build for either is leagues ahead of every other class, even Dragonknight at this point.

It seems this is the exact point he was trying to make : sorc doesn't need a good set on top of what they already have. Zos either had to give it a good set and make it even better (to be fair this is what they did to nb but let's not pretend they have any idea what they're doing) or give it a set that will be meh/really niche, wich is what they did. Yes, sorc would have been more fun with a better set but it's already a very good class and there are more pressing issues (necro and plar xD)

ZhuJiuyin

Navaac223 wrote: »

It seems this is the exact point he was trying to make : sorc doesn't need a good set on top of what they already have. Zos either had to give it a good set and make it even better (to be fair this is what they did to nb but let's not pretend they have any idea what they're doing) or give it a set that will be meh/really niche, wich is what they did. Yes, sorc would have been more fun with a better set but it's already a very good class and there are more pressing issues (necro and plar xD)

Sorc is not at the top level in PVE and usually only serves as support. Considering the effect of Beacon of Oblivion, it should obviously be mainly applied to PVE. But the effect of Beacon of Oblivion is very, very, very bad.
At the same time, DK, who is already very powerful in PVE, has obtained a set that surpasses Relequen this time, and does not need to cast any specific skills.
The power of Pyrebrand was so compelling that ZOS chose it as an advertising model.

This is obviously a clear differential treatment, isn't it?

Theist_VII

Navaac223 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

an optimal build for either is leagues ahead of every other class, even Dragonknight at this point.

It seems this is the exact point he was trying to make : sorc doesn't need a good set on top of what they already have. Zos either had to give it a good set and make it even better (to be fair this is what they did to nb but let's not pretend they have any idea what they're doing) or give it a set that will be meh/really niche, wich is what they did. Yes, sorc would have been more fun with a better set but it's already a very good class and there are more pressing issues (necro and plar xD)

WHAT? The Sorc set does not fit a niché. It is entirely horrible, and doesn’t even represent the skill line it was created for, in fact it punishes you for using your pets!

Not to mention, pet sorcs are absolutely horrid in PvP, and that’s coming from a Pet Sorc main. I get on any other spec and have a much better time without the downright awful bar management problems.

Here’s me playing my Warden…

https://youtu.be/_b4wZpoYSwY?si=PZFTeGDXsYQzvKOa
Notice how every bar spot has a purpose? On Pet Sorc you have two dead bar spots. Two. That means you are inherently behind by two Major Buffs mixed with any other utility effects that would be provided by those spots.

While pet Sorcs are great single target in PvE, they have nowhere near enough cleave to compete with any of the primary classes in content, and honestly, I don’t even care.

I just want a semi-competitive build incorporating pets using pet themed sets. The fact of the matter is, you’re forced into Essence Thief and Rallying Cry, the two best sets in the game to even make playing the spec decent. Take note. Decent.

Why are there several sets that either summon pets, or increase pet damage or give resources when dealing damage to recently attacked NPCs by your pets, if all of those sets are nowhere near competitive with any other options?…

Beacon of Oblivion was supposed to be our answer, it was supposed to be the Daedric Summoning set and instead it’s actively punishing summoners!

What niché does that fit? Self-haters? Maybe we should run the suicide vamp skill too in order to really embrace that niché?

Navaac223

Theist_VII wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

an optimal build for either is leagues ahead of every other class, even Dragonknight at this point.

It seems this is the exact point he was trying to make : sorc doesn't need a good set on top of what they already have. Zos either had to give it a good set and make it even better (to be fair this is what they did to nb but let's not pretend they have any idea what they're doing) or give it a set that will be meh/really niche, wich is what they did. Yes, sorc would have been more fun with a better set but it's already a very good class and there are more pressing issues (necro and plar xD)

WHAT? The Sorc set does not fit a niché. It is entirely horrible, and doesn’t even represent the skill line it was created for, in fact it punishes you for using your pets!

Not to mention, pet sorcs are absolutely horrid in PvP, and that’s coming from a Pet Sorc main. I get on any other spec and have a much better time without the downright awful bar management problems.

Here’s me playing my Warden…

https://youtu.be/_b4wZpoYSwY?si=PZFTeGDXsYQzvKOa
Notice how every bar spot has a purpose? On Pet Sorc you have two dead bar spots. Two. That means you are inherently behind by two Major Buffs mixed with any other utility effects that would be provided by those spots.

While pet Sorcs are great single target in PvE, they have nowhere near enough cleave to compete with any of the primary classes in content, and honestly, I don’t even care.

I just want a semi-competitive build incorporating pets using pet themed sets. The fact of the matter is, you’re forced into Essence Thief and Rallying Cry, the two best sets in the game to even make playing the spec decent. Take note. Decent.

Why are there several sets that either summon pets, or increase pet damage or give resources when dealing damage to recently attacked NPCs by your pets, if all of those sets are nowhere near competitive with any other options?…

Beacon of Oblivion was supposed to be our answer, it was supposed to be the Daedric Summoning set and instead it’s actively punishing summoners!

What niché does that fit? Self-haters? Maybe we should run the suicide vamp skill too in order to really embrace that niché?

I don't remember saying that this set is good, it's 100% the worst one here. I just said that it would have been infinitely worse if sorcs had gotten a good set on top of the best burst, the best defence and the best mobility.

I actually agree completely with your idea of giving petsorcs a good set, I thought you wanted something for all sorcs. I would prefer seeing petsorcs than ward spamming magsorcs as much as anyone. At least this playstyle is cool and has a counter (killing the pets). Even if it comes at the cost of making them too powerful on pve because, let's be honest, with arcanists running around with 120k dps with a weaving average of >0,5 insane buffs to other classes are fair game.

(The niche playstyle is solo pve, when you need to be tanky while having a good burst potential (the 15% boost to dmg) : you could pop an atronach to get a bit more tanky and then go back to dealing damage after having used this opportunity to HA for ressources. Again, this is terrible for almost every situation. This is why I said it was really niche)

Navaac223

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

It seems this is the exact point he was trying to make : sorc doesn't need a good set on top of what they already have. Zos either had to give it a good set and make it even better (to be fair this is what they did to nb but let's not pretend they have any idea what they're doing) or give it a set that will be meh/really niche, wich is what they did. Yes, sorc would have been more fun with a better set but it's already a very good class and there are more pressing issues (necro and plar xD)

Sorc is not at the top level in PVE and usually only serves as support. Considering the effect of Beacon of Oblivion, it should obviously be mainly applied to PVE. But the effect of Beacon of Oblivion is very, very, very bad.
At the same time, DK, who is already very powerful in PVE, has obtained a set that surpasses Relequen this time, and does not need to cast any specific skills.
The power of Pyrebrand was so compelling that ZOS chose it as an advertising model.

This is obviously a clear differential treatment, isn't it?

I was talking about pvp, wich is why I said sorcs don't need anything more but if you insist..
This set is huge for parse dk but it doesn't matter because even that can't get dks out of the debuff DD jail when fatecarver exists
Sure, sorc needs a buff in pve but so does pretty much every other class except arc, it seems dk got some of it. The time will hopefully come in u44 for sorcs and the others

ZhuJiuyin

Navaac223 wrote: »

I was talking about pvp, wich is why I said sorcs don't need anything more but if you insist..
This set is huge for parse dk but it doesn't matter because even that can't get dks out of the debuff DD jail when fatecarver exists
Sure, sorc needs a buff in pve but so does pretty much every other class except arc, it seems dk got some of it. The time will hopefully come in u44 for sorcs and the others

But don't forget, the theme name here is "Feedback Thread for Class Sets", and Beacon of Oblivion is obviously (by design) suitable for PVE. So it's unfair to claim here that because Sorc is strong in PVP, it doesn't need a good class set (my interpretation).
Especially after Pyrebrand of DK (a class that is very strong in both PVE and PVP) showed such great power, claimed that "sorcs don't need anything more", which unfair to Sorc.
Moreover, this is a set about the theme of classes. It is actually a good opportunity to strengthen the shortcomings of each class and add features to the skill line. Is NB too weak in PVE? Then let NB class sets have a buff that increases damage to monsters by 30%. Warden wants more pets? How about making Warden class sets summon Warden-specific pets, maybe giving them a Guar that deals poison damage?
My argument is that since it is Class Sets, it should not be claimed here that any classes are too powerful in a certain ability and therefore not worthy of having a good or interesting Class Sets.
And when garbage like Beacon of Oblivion is designed, all players should object, because who knows if the next set of garbage will be your main class?

FoJul

Theist_VII wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Lalothen wrote: »

I like how in the U43 reveal post they've chosen to highlight the overtuned DK ST dps set:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66519

Meanwhile Sorc players are in for another awful disappointment.

Atleast, sorc is strong in PvP. lol

What? When was the last time you saw a pet sorc in PvP that wasn’t holding down heavy attacks trying to kill people with Knight Slayer?

If I recall you play a Nightblade, we both agreed that Swallow Soul needed a buff, but don’t play pretend that Nightblade isn’t at the very least tied with Sorcerer for PvP efficiency, because an optimal build for either is leagues ahead of every other class, even Dragonknight at this point.

So what does me playing nightblade, a very bad playstyle of the class, have anything to do with my smart elic comment that sorc is atleast strong in PvP.

I don't know if you see the irony here, but for the last idk 5 patch cycles or more, a lot of people were saying "Nightblade is too strong in PvP they don't need any buffs"

But yeah, less arguing, more agreeing.

CP5

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Navaac223 wrote: »

I was talking about pvp, wich is why I said sorcs don't need anything more but if you insist..
This set is huge for parse dk but it doesn't matter because even that can't get dks out of the debuff DD jail when fatecarver exists
Sure, sorc needs a buff in pve but so does pretty much every other class except arc, it seems dk got some of it. The time will hopefully come in u44 for sorcs and the others

But don't forget, the theme name here is "Feedback Thread for Class Sets", and Beacon of Oblivion is obviously (by design) suitable for PVE. So it's unfair to claim here that because Sorc is strong in PVP, it doesn't need a good class set (my interpretation).
Especially after Pyrebrand of DK (a class that is very strong in both PVE and PVP) showed such great power, claimed that "sorcs don't need anything more", which unfair to Sorc.
Moreover, this is a set about the theme of classes. It is actually a good opportunity to strengthen the shortcomings of each class and add features to the skill line. Is NB too weak in PVE? Then let NB class sets have a buff that increases damage to monsters by 30%. Warden wants more pets? How about making Warden class sets summon Warden-specific pets, maybe giving them a Guar that deals poison damage?
My argument is that since it is Class Sets, it should not be claimed here that any classes are too powerful in a certain ability and therefore not worthy of having a good or interesting Class Sets.
And when garbage like Beacon of Oblivion is designed, all players should object, because who knows if the next set of garbage will be your main class?

And the very last thing a class set should do is to discourage the player from using class specific skills...

brtomkin

Has anyone tested if the new DK class set Pyrebrand works while in werewolf form?

BasP

brtomkin wrote: »

Has anyone tested if the new DK class set Pyrebrand works while in werewolf form?

It does, unless that has been changed since this video.

Syiccal

Funny how dk get an instant hit strong asf dot but Templar have to work for thiers by chasing the proc

ZDunlain

Syiccal wrote: »

Funny how dk get an instant hit strong asf dot but Templar have to work for thiers by chasing the proc

It is super sad how templars always need to work in order to get things (for example like power of the light burst) and dk always get things without needing many requirements. Super sad to see.

mmtaniac

They treat templar as roleplay class not real class. Templar is no EDGY enough to be treated as a real class.