Can we please make Undeath non-mandatory

NuarBlack

I hate that pvping on any non vamp feels gimped. Also that literally everyone just runs Dawnbreaker to counter unless you are a DK. Undeath needs an adjustment or lock vamps out of fighters guild skill line so there is a benefit to being mortal.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

A Vampire locked out of fighter's guild despite the first passive being Intimidation.

So they wouldn't beable to intimidate?

A better change would be to change the skill, the whole theme of the Skill is since Vampires are undead it is harder to mortally wound them, how do you change the skill without..

1. Making it useless
2. Making it go against the idea

How about give the Vampire something similar to the Sea-Serpant's Coil

When at full health they take 30% less damage, this effect can happen once per minute.

Erickson9610

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A Vampire locked out of fighter's guild despite the first passive being Intimidation.

So they wouldn't beable to intimidate?

I think a more pressing concern with the suggestion is that players would be locked out of the Intimidating Presence passive, rather than thematically being unable to intimidate others. We already know some NPCs are capable of intimidation, despite not being members of the Fighters Guild — and Intimidating Presence has a functional purpose in questing dialogue, so stripping that from players would be a serious nerf to casual play.

NuarBlack wrote: »

I hate that pvping on any non vamp feels gimped. Also that literally everyone just runs Dawnbreaker to counter unless you are a DK. Undeath needs an adjustment or lock vamps out of fighters guild skill line so there is a benefit to being mortal.

I disagree that there should be more benefits to being mortal. Vampires have downsides at all times, which increase the higher their Stage. Werewolves have downsides whenever they transform.

Mortals have no benefits, but also no downsides. Each of the two curses have their own benefits and downsides, which are meant to balance out. If mortals were to get more benefits that Werewolf/Vampire cannot use, then shouldn't mortals also get more downsides to balance it out?


Claiming that the lack of Werewolf/Vampire benefits is a downside of mortals only works if one also claims that the lack of Werewolf/Vampire downsides is a benefit of mortals. Mortals should be glad they don't take increased Poison/Flame and Fighters Guild damage, along with all of the other downsides attributed to either curse.

StarOfElyon

NuarBlack wrote: »

I hate that pvping on any non vamp feels gimped. Also that literally everyone just runs Dawnbreaker to counter unless you are a DK. Undeath needs an adjustment or lock vamps out of fighters guild skill line so there is a benefit to being mortal.

How about: vampire passives are PVE only. Undeath should only work against monsters.

DrNukenstein

They heard us. Now you don't have to be a "stage 3 vamp" you just have to be a vamp.

Now it's just free DR to go along with your fast crouch with the only down side being that you can't be a doggo.

Araneae6537

These look like good changes, reducing the damage resistance and not making it require stage 3.

xDeusEJRx

Have to give it to ZOS, they listened and made a really good change to undeath. GG's boys we won the war

Twohothardware

Finally we got the Undeath passive nerfed. Still provides up to 10% damage reduction but no longer mandatory in PvP.

fred4

DrNukenstein wrote: »

They heard us. Now you don't have to be a "stage 3 vamp" you just have to be a vamp.

Now it's just free DR to go along with your fast crouch with the only down side being that you can't be a doggo.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

These look like good changes, reducing the damage resistance and not making it require stage 3.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Have to give it to ZOS, they listened and made a really good change to undeath. GG's boys we won the war

Twohothardware wrote: »

Finally we got the Undeath passive nerfed. Still provides up to 10% damage reduction but no longer mandatory in PvP.

I don't think they've gone far enough. I've never liked vamp from a cosmetic / role-playing PoV. Thus, I've hated that being one was a de facto PvP requirement. I would say the incentive to be a stage 1 vamp is now stronger than ever. Heck, arguably these passives may be too good to pass up for solo PvEers as well, be they questers for the crouch movement speed, or Infinite Archive players. Am I wrong? I admit, not playing vamps, I have no feel for the vulnerability downsides.

I would say this is break even territory for a PvP nightblade, who only needs to be stage 2 for the damage buff now. It's possibly even a buff. Am I wrong?

I'm also confused whether stage 3 now does nothing or whether stage 4 has been abolished and that passive been shifted to stage 3.

Panderbander

I would agree it needs to remain on stage 3. As it stands you now get a unique damage reduction at no cost while also no longer requiring any investment into taking more fire damage or cost increases. It's just free unique Major Protection

xDeusEJRx

fred4 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

They heard us. Now you don't have to be a "stage 3 vamp" you just have to be a vamp.

Now it's just free DR to go along with your fast crouch with the only down side being that you can't be a doggo.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

These look like good changes, reducing the damage resistance and not making it require stage 3.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Have to give it to ZOS, they listened and made a really good change to undeath. GG's boys we won the war

Twohothardware wrote: »

Finally we got the Undeath passive nerfed. Still provides up to 10% damage reduction but no longer mandatory in PvP.

I don't think they've gone far enough. I've never liked vamp from a cosmetic / role-playing PoV. Thus, I've hated that being one was a de facto PvP requirement. I would say the incentive to be a stage 1 vamp is now stronger than ever. Heck, arguably these passives may be too good to pass up for solo PvEers as well, be they questers for the crouch movement speed, or Infinite Archive players. Am I wrong? I admit, not playing vamps, I have no feel for the vulnerability downsides.

I would say this is break even territory for a PvP nightblade, who only needs to be stage 2 for the damage buff now. It's possibly even a buff. Am I wrong?

I'm also confused whether stage 3 now does nothing or whether stage 4 has been abolished and that passive been shifted to stage 3.

While I do agree I do think it's super lucrative now to be stage 1 vamp, I personally think it's a huge win. I'd rather it be 10% which is comparable to already existing buffs like Revealing flare, than the up to 30% it had before which was more mitigation than most other sets can provide.

Undeath now is basically equivalent to not needing flare slotted on your bar, which while is a huge boon for having active at all times, I don't think you'd be completely gimping yourself not being a vampire anymore.

I think the only people who might not like this change as much are Dragonknight players as vamps no longer will give them that huge damage boost, but I think DK as is already is at a sweet spot for damage so it doesn't bother them that much

TX12001rwb17_ESO

The problem with not needing to be stage 3 though is a small problem.

Vampires no longer get anything for being Stage 3?

ZOS went and made NB skills more consistent but then made Vampires more inconsistent, can we have something for being Stage 3?

Zyaneth_Bal

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A Vampire locked out of fighter's guild despite the first passive being Intimidation.

So they wouldn't beable to intimidate?

A better change would be to change the skill, the whole theme of the Skill is since Vampires are undead it is harder to mortally wound them, how do you change the skill without..

1. Making it useless
2. Making it go against the idea

How about give the Vampire something similar to the Sea-Serpant's Coil

When at full health they take 30% less damage, this effect can happen once per minute.

This is a great idea. Even though undeath wasn’t an issue if zos decided to go there and nerf it it could at least be changed to address another problem. With a duration of even 2s an effect like this would counteract currently thriving boring 100-0 builds that offer no counterplay and at the same time a long cooldown wouldn’t allow it to be abused.

Morvan

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

How about give the Vampire something similar to the Sea-Serpant's Coil

When at full health they take 30% less damage, this effect can happen once per minute.

So vampires would take 30% less damage from 1 singular hit every 1 minute? That'd be nearly useless, I'd rather have 5% undeath all the time. They could pretty much completely scrap undeath and make a passive more centered around the vampire skills, to avoid people from using it as an all-around source of mitigation.

ToRelax

Placing Undeath on stage one reduces the impact by two thirds, but it's still a very similarly good trade. I don't see why this one passive needs to balanced against the entire set of drawbacks for the respective vamp stage.

What this will do is make people easier to kill again unless they invest more into survivability. That, at least, should be a good thing.

Tinkerhorn

Could always maybe just have the passive only apply with a vampiric skill equipped

ToRelax

Tinkerhorn wrote: »

Could always maybe just have the passive only apply with a vampiric skill equipped

Yes, with the reduced power level that should work.

master_vanargand

The current PTS forces everyone to be a vampire in PvP.
10% damage reduction for free with almost no risk is a terrible idea.
Undeath should be vampire stage 3.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Now we need a new stage 3 passive, this glaring void where Undeath used to be is triggering my OCD and don't forget this change makes Perfect Scion even more useless as one perk of the morph was to allow you to use all Vampire passives even if at stage 1 when your transformed, we need another stage 3 skill.

• Stage 1 grants 2 passives
• Stage 2 grants 1 passive
• Stage 3 grants 0 passives
• Stage 4 grants 1 passive

Ideas for a new stage 3 passive

• How about we heal for 5% of all damage caused
• We go invisible for 3 seconds after a kill
• Our magicka and stamina recover 10% faster
• We have passive lifesteal on every enemy we fight
• We take less fall damage (Seriously Vampires having supernatural strength, they should not be taking the same amount of fall damage as a mere mortal who doesn't have supernatural strength does, hell give Werewolves a fall damage resistance buff as well)

WE NEED SOMETHING!!

fred4

Morvan wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

How about give the Vampire something similar to the Sea-Serpant's Coil

When at full health they take 30% less damage, this effect can happen once per minute.

So vampires would take 30% less damage from 1 singular hit every 1 minute? That'd be nearly useless, I'd rather have 5% undeath all the time. They could pretty much completely scrap undeath and make a passive more centered around the vampire skills, to avoid people from using it as an all-around source of mitigation.

It would be useful in open world. It's gank protection, so you don't have to be so paranoid while turning a flag, while running around in IC doing daily quests, even while riding somewhere. That said, it would also be bomb protection for whole groups on a flag. You got to think on how you value bombing as a (ball) group countermeasure for the overall game.

fred4

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

[*] Our magicka and stamina recover 10% faster

It cannot possibly be that. The whole point of vamp stages is to nerf your regens in exchange for other buffs.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

fred4 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

[*] Our magicka and stamina recover 10% faster

It cannot possibly be that. The whole point of vamp stages is to nerf your regens in exchange for other buffs.

What other buffs? running away isn't a buff.

Morvan

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

What other buffs? running away isn't a buff.

He's talking about the cost weakness, if you add sustain as one of the vampire's buffs you miss the point of having a cost increase in the first place.

NuarBlack

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A Vampire locked out of fighter's guild despite the first passive being Intimidation.

So they wouldn't beable to intimidate?

A better change would be to change the skill, the whole theme of the Skill is since Vampires are undead it is harder to mortally wound them, how do you change the skill without..

1. Making it useless
2. Making it go against the idea

How about give the Vampire something similar to the Sea-Serpant's Coil

When at full health they take 30% less damage, this effect can happen once per minute.

They should have just made it like one of the sets that grants a free burst heal when you get hit at or below 30% health on a CD. Fits the theme of being hard to kill but doesn't scale disproportionately like a damage reduction bonus.

Soarora

master_vanargand wrote: »

The current PTS forces everyone to be a vampire in PvP.
10% damage reduction for free with almost no risk is a terrible idea.
Undeath should be vampire stage 3.

The current PTS "forces" everyone to be a vampire. I don't see enough people talking about this with their praise of this change.

StarOfElyon

Maybe it's best to keep undeath at stage 3. I play vamp (stage 1) on two of my ten characters just for the role play though. I'm just glad that I'm not under as much pressure to go to stage 3 for undeath.