Not only ward is the problem here

LittlePinkDot

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Not defending mag sorc but look at how many skills of all classes that tournament has banned! What a lame tournament....

You know what's lame? Endless stalemates via endlessly resetting the duel. That's what the rules are for.

Come on over to PS5, there's plenty of people who dont know how to block half the time. 😆 And no add ons. "Ignorance is bliss."

As for me I'm somebody who needs to finish a fight quickly before I run out of resources. I'm either going to win in 30-40 seconds or I'm going to die in 30-40 seconds.

Usually I try to build tanky character with high resource pool. However lately it doesn’t matter if I can use obstacles, blocking, dodge roll, healing etc… the burst potential of NB, Sorc, DK, Arcanist, and some Warden make it hard to enjoy pvp because they are also usually really hard to kill either due to high defensive or great mobility. Playing a high damage and tanky Templar isn’t really a thing anymore. What I don’t get is that devs adjusted Templar to get rid of the high damage and high defense only passing these features over to other classes. If the devs would have never touched the Templar after the next update all classes would be closer in damage potential and defensive potential.

Templar and necro got the short end of the stick.

MEBengalsFan2001

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Not defending mag sorc but look at how many skills of all classes that tournament has banned! What a lame tournament....

You know what's lame? Endless stalemates via endlessly resetting the duel. That's what the rules are for.

Come on over to PS5, there's plenty of people who dont know how to block half the time. 😆 And no add ons. "Ignorance is bliss."

As for me I'm somebody who needs to finish a fight quickly before I run out of resources. I'm either going to win in 30-40 seconds or I'm going to die in 30-40 seconds.

Usually I try to build tanky character with high resource pool. However lately it doesn’t matter if I can use obstacles, blocking, dodge roll, healing etc… the burst potential of NB, Sorc, DK, Arcanist, and some Warden make it hard to enjoy pvp because they are also usually really hard to kill either due to high defensive or great mobility. Playing a high damage and tanky Templar isn’t really a thing anymore. What I don’t get is that devs adjusted Templar to get rid of the high damage and high defense only passing these features over to other classes. If the devs would have never touched the Templar after the next update all classes would be closer in damage potential and defensive potential.

Templar and necro got the short end of the stick.

At least Necro are now being adjusted and I believe they will be in a better spot afterwards.

Theignson

MagSorc was fine before they buffed ward-- but it was actually challenging to play ( I thought it was the most challenging).

Now its just EZ mode (except that you can get ganked by the second strongest class, NB, especially in a high Mag lower hp build)

BTW I have never pain any attention to dueling: In Stonefalls or wherever, does battlespirit apply when dueling, or is that only in Zerodil?

Theignson

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I'm not saying Sorc isn't OP right now (it is), but using duel tournament rules as a barometer is not a good idea

Not on its own, but there's clearly mountains of Cyro and BGs evidence being shown as well, and it's highly unusual for an entire class to be banned from tournaments. And as has been previously discussed, 1v1 happens a lot more than many players think, especially in 1vX situations that reduce to a series of fast 1v1s. This doesn't just affect 1vX tryhards, but also the unfortunate casuals in the X who are being annihilated by an unkillable teleporting battlecruiser.

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

To be more precise a very strong min/maxed 1v1 setup will do 5-6k dps on a class with a lot of pressure. If you are doing more than that its basically impossible for the other person to survive unless they are a sorc with ward.

And for further context, 5-6k dps is what open world builds generally top out at, you're killing most everything on the field at that point, 5-6k dps open world 1v1 is enough to get incoming hate tells calling you a hacking cheater in Cyro or BGs.

In my experience 5-6k in Cyrodil is monster level. Unlike trials or dungeons, in Zerodil the opponent usually doesnt just stand there, they roll dodge, block, LOS etc.

I am not an uber player but generally on any given day if I am going above 3k I am killing a lot of people

xylena_lazarow

Theignson wrote: »

In my experience 5-6k in Cyrodil is monster level. Unlike trials or dungeons, in Zerodil the opponent usually doesnt just stand there, they roll dodge, block, LOS etc. I am not an uber player but generally on any given day if I am going above 3k I am killing a lot of people

Agreed, people probably don't realize because of the incredible disparity between numbers, where "good" in open world PvP means 4k+ dps, versus the 120k+ dps you want in raid PvE. Doing 5-6k dps on my pressure Arc melted 99% of opponents in Cyro, everything short of tanks and hardcore duelers (who do the same thing just with a build better minmaxed for 1v1 or GvG, these builds can hit 7-8k dps but give up open world utility).

CameraBeardThePirate

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Not defending mag sorc but look at how many skills of all classes that tournament has banned! What a lame tournament....

You know what's lame? Endless stalemates via endlessly resetting the duel. That's what the rules are for.

Come on over to PS5, there's plenty of people who dont know how to block half the time. 😆 And no add ons. "Ignorance is bliss."

As for me I'm somebody who needs to finish a fight quickly before I run out of resources. I'm either going to win in 30-40 seconds or I'm going to die in 30-40 seconds.

Usually I try to build tanky character with high resource pool. However lately it doesn’t matter if I can use obstacles, blocking, dodge roll, healing etc… the burst potential of NB, Sorc, DK, Arcanist, and some Warden make it hard to enjoy pvp because they are also usually really hard to kill either due to high defensive or great mobility. Playing a high damage and tanky Templar isn’t really a thing anymore. What I don’t get is that devs adjusted Templar to get rid of the high damage and high defense only passing these features over to other classes. If the devs would have never touched the Templar after the next update all classes would be closer in damage potential and defensive potential.

Templar and necro got the short end of the stick.

At least Necro are now being adjusted and I believe they will be in a better spot afterwards.

Barely. The skills they added the Major Buffs to are still meh at best in most environments outside of dummy humping.

The Intensive buff and Armor buff were the best two changes, and those two changes don't do much in the grand scheme of things to help necro out.

The Skeletal Minion desperately needs a damage increase, and the tether needs to not break on LoS.

Galeriano2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I'm not sure what testing they did to come to this conclusion

Literally what the OP shows. Unmatched damage, range, and mobility even without Ward.

Unmatched range with dizzying swing as spammable?...

Galeriano2

moo_2021 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

What am I looking at on the screenshot? What's wrong here?

That level of damage near 8k dps is what minmaxed dueling builds put out, max 13k Curse and a 16k Frag. This is not a glass cannon, it is the tankiest DD spec in the game right now with its spammable 16k shield, and also the most mobile DD in the game with the best spammable teleport. The whole class was banned from a dueling tournament.

Why does the stat window list 22k pen with 45% over-pen?

CMX is set for PvE ruleset in terms of penetration.

Galeriano2

moo_2021 wrote: »

Why did sorcs feel the need for buff in the first place? Can't they just use the previous ward plus vigor in pve?

Previous version of magsorc's defense relying on shield+vigor really wasn't working that well in PvP. Their defense was pretty mediocre prior to ward changes to the point they were one of the if not the easiest targets to take down in PvP.

There really was a handfull of magsorcs who could make the playstyle work but that was mainly due to their high experience and highly above the average skill level rather than state of magsorc.

As strong as shield change was lets not pretend magsorc without it was fine. ZoS went overboard with sorc changes and instead of making class's toolkit more up to date they decided to just overbuff one ability and call it a day.


As for Your question about PvE it kinda sucks to have 2 purely defensive abilities when other classes often need just 1 or even none, when You're also a class that already have bar space issues due to pets taking two slots.