ESO has a huge power disparity in Races

master_vanargand · July 7

ESO has a huge power disparity in Races.
Hybridization update is insufficient, and no one uses the unpopular Race.
Let's all come up with ideas on how to improve the balance of Races.

[My idea]
Adds "Increases your Max Magicka by 2000" to the unpopular "Imperial" and "Redguard" races.
This allows "Imperial" and "Redguard" to become excellent Healer and can also be used as Magicka DPS.

LittlePinkDot · July 7

Imperial is just fine with their skill cost reduction and 2000 health. They're great for PvP.

BasP · July 7

I'd like it if Redguards had a 50% (or some other value) increased effectiveness of Weapon Traits, similar to the Heartland Conquerer set, instead of the reduced effectiveness of snares they currently have. Seeing as Redguards are supposed to be the most talented warriors in all of Tamriel, it would be fitting if they could utilize the weapons they wield better than the other races.

master_vanargand · July 7

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Imperial is just fine with their skill cost reduction and 2000 health. They're great for PvP.

You may want to deny everything, but I should be more positive here.
What I want to say is that the Hybridization Update is not enough for Races.
The idea I mentioned is to expand the possibilities of Races, which are not popular.
PvE is more important than PvP, which is the least played content.

LittlePinkDot · July 7

master_vanargand wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Imperial is just fine with their skill cost reduction and 2000 health. They're great for PvP.

You may want to deny everything, but I should be more positive here.
What I want to say is that the Hybridization Update is not enough for Races.
The idea I mentioned is to expand the possibilities of Races, which are not popular.
PvE is more important than PvP, which is the least played content.

And there are tanks and healers in PVE. Not everyone is a DPS. Tanks and healers need races with passives for their roles too. Not everything has to cater to DPS. I exclusively PVE as a tank or a healer.

And yes PvP is played content and the 4th quarter DLC this year will be new a PVP feature.

Araneae6537 · July 7

Imperial already have increased max stamina and health, in addition to decrease cost for all abilities, which is especially helpful for tanking. I agree that Reguards could use an improvement. One of the suggestions I’ve liked best is a bonus similar to Heartland Conqueror that enhances the weapon trait.

Soarora · July 7

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

master_vanargand · July 7

Soarora wrote: »

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

If the DPS difference is 10k that's very very huge.
And races without "Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 258" are pretty dire.
At the very least, the less popular races should be buffed.

Araneae6537 · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

If the DPS difference is 10k that's very very huge.
And races without "Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 258" are pretty dire.
At the very least, the less popular races should be buffed.

I don’t think it’s needed for that reason as those who chase meta will continue to do so and those who just play what they like will continue to do so as well. There are races which I think could use some adjustment for lore or because the passive seems glaringly lacking (Redguard), but mostly I play what I like. What makes you say that Imperials are unpopular? I wouldn’t even know how to judge that since it’s a paid for expansion (all the more reason they should have useful passives, which they do, but not be some ultimate meta).

LittlePinkDot · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

If the DPS difference is 10k that's very very huge.
And races without "Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 258" are pretty dire.
At the very least, the less popular races should be buffed.

It only matters if you're trying to be the absolute best at vet hard mode and trying to set records.

But the same thing could be said for Tanks and Healers in vet hard mode. Tanks and healers don't need weapon/spell damage stat. They want other stats. I think Redguard could be altered. But Imperial is perfect for what it's good at. And unique. No other race has red diamond.

The races are different on purpose. There's some that are going to be better for certain roles than others. You just have to pick a race that's the best for the job you're doing.

If you feel you must have an imperial..make it a tank, not a DPS.

master_vanargand · July 8

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

If the DPS difference is 10k that's very very huge.
And races without "Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 258" are pretty dire.
At the very least, the less popular races should be buffed.

It only matters if you're trying to be the absolute best at vet hard mode and trying to set records.

But the same thing could be said for Tanks and Healers in vet hard mode. Tanks and healers don't need weapon/spell damage stat. They want other stats. I think Redguard could be altered. But Imperial is perfect for what it's good at. And unique. No other race has red diamond.

The races are different on purpose. There's some that are going to be better for certain roles than others. You just have to pick a race that's the best for the job you're doing.

If you feel you must have an imperial..make it a tank, not a DPS.

But isn't that racism?
Asserting that certain Races should only be given one role is also occupational discrimination.

Froil · July 8

I think giving Redguards something like +3/4/5% damage/heal increase to all weapon skills would be better than max magicka

the1andonlyskwex · July 8

Every time ZOS rebalances races they get accused of only doing it to sell race change tokens. The first time it happened, they tried to compensate by giving everyone 3 free race changes. That resulted in backlash because some people felt entitled to a free change for all of their (more than 3) characters. The second time it happened, ZOS just told people that the changes weren't large enough to justify free tokens, which just made people more angry. I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a third time, because ZOS knows that they'll make people mad no matter what.

In conclusion, I wouldn't hold my breath for a race rebalance.

LittlePinkDot · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

If the DPS difference is 10k that's very very huge.
And races without "Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 258" are pretty dire.
At the very least, the less popular races should be buffed.

It only matters if you're trying to be the absolute best at vet hard mode and trying to set records.

But the same thing could be said for Tanks and Healers in vet hard mode. Tanks and healers don't need weapon/spell damage stat. They want other stats. I think Redguard could be altered. But Imperial is perfect for what it's good at. And unique. No other race has red diamond.

The races are different on purpose. There's some that are going to be better for certain roles than others. You just have to pick a race that's the best for the job you're doing.

If you feel you must have an imperial..make it a tank, not a DPS.

But isn't that racism?
Asserting that certain Races should only be given one role is also occupational discrimination.

It's just a game.

There has been a suggestion to be able to choose your passives when you create your character so everybody can have what they want with any race.

But it does go against elder scrolls lore in some ways. High elves and dark elves and Bretons were always supposed to have more natural Magicka than Imperials or redguards.

Sauce_B055 · July 8

Racial passives are such a strangely divisive topic.
You can wear a bath towel with the stats of heavy armor.
You can wield a fork with the stats of a mace.
You can even change your birth sign at any time.
ESO has almost completely separated statistics from appearance, but for some reason we draw the line at racial passives.
It's just silly, especially when you consider you can change the physiology of your character at will.
You can be a skeleton, factotum, Daedra, or even turn into Molag Bal himself while retaining whatever racial passives you had before.
But the thought of a Nord having magicka passives is apparently too far.
Fair enough if you care about lore and roleplay, but not everyone does.

ClowdyAllDay · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

ESO has a huge power disparity in Races.
Hybridization update is insufficient, and no one uses the unpopular Race.
Let's all come up with ideas on how to improve the balance of Races.

[My idea]
Adds "Increases your Max Magicka by 2000" to the unpopular "Imperial" and "Redguard" races.
This allows "Imperial" and "Redguard" to become excellent Healer and can also be used as Magicka DPS.

I have redguard healer. Why healer has to be all magicks? Stam healing is a thing too. I use it lots. I got stam healers for days.

Warden Templar night blade dragon knight using stam and magicka

master_vanargand · July 8

Just because a character is fictional doesn't mean it's OK to make hate speech about them.
Do you think it's okay to make hate speech about Superman or Black Panther on social media?

If you don't like this thread, just leave.

Why go out of your way to racize Races and discriminate against the roll here?
This is not a place to be racist, it's a place to discuss ideas to make Races better.
This is not the place for you to criticize or hate the Races.

Thank you for your understanding.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Huge is an overstatement. Not everyone uses meta races and that is almost never a problem. My main tanks are dunmer, breton, and altmer, and the only problem I’ve had is I had to take some points out of max mag on breton so synergies restore my stamina. My arcanist is an argonian and that’s like a 10k parse difference (my parse 110k instead of 120k, but could also be me and not the race). Just use what you want.

If the DPS difference is 10k that's very very huge.
And races without "Increase Weapon and Spell Damage by 258" are pretty dire.
At the very least, the less popular races should be buffed.

10k DPS on a trial dummy is not "very very huge" lmao

thadjarvis · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

ESO has a huge power disparity in Races.
Hybridization update is insufficient, and no one uses the unpopular Race.
Let's all come up with ideas on how to improve the balance of Races.

[My idea]
Adds "Increases your Max Magicka by 2000" to the unpopular "Imperial" and "Redguard" races.
This allows "Imperial" and "Redguard" to become excellent Healer and can also be used as Magicka DPS.

Imperial is relatively popular for tanks. Adding 2k resources would give them 6k total stats. That's quite a bit.

Redguard getting max mag won't see it used much more. An issue with their sustain is that it's weapon based instead of say stamina skill cost based. You can use them on classes that don't use weapon skills much.

KlauthWarthog · July 8

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Every time ZOS rebalances races they get accused of only doing it to sell race change tokens. The first time it happened, they tried to compensate by giving everyone 3 free race changes. That resulted in backlash because some people felt entitled to a free change for all of their (more than 3) characters. The second time it happened, ZOS just told people that the changes weren't large enough to justify free tokens, which just made people more angry. I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a third time, because ZOS knows that they'll make people mad no matter what.

In conclusion, I wouldn't hold my breath for a race rebalance.

Yup, this right here.
Because race change tokens exist and are monetized, racial passive balance is also indirectly monetized. So the changes are always met with flak, so they pretty much... do not happen.
If class change ever becomes a thing, and is monetized, we can expect a similar outcome.

Lalothen · July 8

Just let people pick their passives during character creation; it'd be a better Q3 feature than House Tours will ever be.

xylena_lazarow · July 8

Decouple character models from mechanical passives already. I roleplay my character as a Wood Orc from Valenwood. It makes no lore sense for me to have Wrothgar passives. Players should be able to go to shrines similar to Mundus Stones and choose a cultural blessing or whatever for their racial passives. There's no reason for RP and competitiveness to be entangled like this, it flies in the face of "play how you want" for no legitimate payoff.

StarOfElyon · July 8

BasP wrote: »

I'd like it if Redguards had a 50% (or some other value) increased effectiveness of Weapon Traits, similar to the Heartland Conquerer set, instead of the reduced effectiveness of snares they currently have. Seeing as Redguards are supposed to be the most talented warriors in all of Tamriel, it would be fitting if they could utilize the weapons they wield better than the other races.

I agree. And...

StarOfElyon wrote: »

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).
"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

jlmurra2 · July 8

I think Imperials are in a good place. Redguards however need some help. Altering the Martial Training passive by increasing the focus on weapon abilities would be my solution.

Martial Training

Reduces the cost of weapon abilities by 8%. Increases your damage with weapon abilities by 258.

Just weapon abilities, no other stamina or magicka abilities.

Theist_VII · July 8

I agree with the title of the OP, but for a different reason.

Khajiit is unrivaled in PvP. From Feline Ambush you get 12% critical damage. Twelve percent.

With everyone as tanky as they are, the only way kills are being secured, are with crits. Needless to say, 12% is an absurd value.

Twohothardware · July 8

Breton needs more max Magicka to make them stand out against the top race choices for DPS like High Elf and Dark Elf. With hybridization their extra resource sustain became a lot less useful.

LittlePinkDot · July 9

Telos_Tim wrote: »

I agree with the title of the OP, but for a different reason.

Khajiit is unrivaled in PvP. From Feline Ambush you get 12% critical damage. Twelve percent.

With everyone as tanky as they are, the only way kills are being secured, are with crits. Needless to say, 12% is an absurd value.

Isn't 12% similar to channeled acceleration?

Kahajit doesn't have weapon/spell damage so I would think it would balance out and be negligible. The skill of the person playing is still more important in PvP than just a 12% Crit damage buff.

Fyi look at the update 43 patch notes, undeath was nerfed hard. Should be easier to make a kill now anyway.

KlauthWarthog · July 9

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Isn't 12% similar to channeled acceleration?

That 12% crit damage is Minor Force * 1.2.
The 258 spell/weapon damage that Altmer/Dunmer/Orcs get is Minor Courage * 1.2.

DinoZavr · July 9

Imperials are still OKay, especially for tanking
yes, not many players prefer Redguards
what i don't get - is that Bosmers are not mentioned in this thread. Are they OKay for you? am i missing them being boosted?

Luke_Flamesword · July 9

They should create morphs of passives to give us choice in which direction we want to go with our race.

katorga · July 9

Khajiit is the best race. 12% Crit damage and crit healing, crit healing is harder to come by. Balanced stats and regen.

.