Ranged burst proc stacking

xylena_lazarow

Just_Attivi wrote: »

HOWEVER, counterpoint: with so many groups of sorcs and arcanists with 20k+ shield stacks, and 50k HP polar wind spamming wardens running around.... it is really nice to have a tool to handle that without being a massive zerg.

Unclear what you mean, ranged gankers are no threat to 12 person ball groups, but even in a smallscale group with cross heals, constantly being chunked for 20k+ by untouchable enemies is NOT FUN, even if I'm a tryhard who can technically deal with it. It severely limits your ability to engage, to say nothing of average players who finally get up the courage to go outside the zerg, only to get immediately deleted by the untouchable finger of god.

And of course none of these sets are problems in isolation, it's the stacking from range. No risk, all reward. It doesn't teach these players how to PvP, just how to avoid PvP and sit in safety. It contradicts the successful changes they made to range procs like Savage Werewolf (now restricted to melee range) and burst procs like Selene and Velidreth (curated list for one second delays with other procs).

If you want to argue in favor of ranged burst procs: they kill MagSorcs lol. Broken checking broken, hooray?

DrNukenstein

Procs are for big strong melee players with lots of Weapon damage. Not tiny effete ranged players who sacrifice stat density to lay back and play easy mode.

katorga

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Procs are for big strong melee players with lots of Weapon damage. Not tiny effete ranged players who sacrifice stat density to lay back and play easy mode.

Charged lighting staff Asylum staff, tarnished, winterborn or draugrkin, and spam forcepulse/LA weaves into Merciless Resolve. Done.

DrNukenstein

katorga wrote: »

Charged lighting staff Asylum staff, tarnished, winterborn or draugrkin, and spam forcepulse/LA weaves into Merciless Resolve. Done.

That sounds so boring why would you want to play like that?

TechMaybeHic

DrNukenstein wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Charged lighting staff Asylum staff, tarnished, winterborn or draugrkin, and spam forcepulse/LA weaves into Merciless Resolve. Done.

That sounds so boring why would you want to play like that?

At least they are talking about weaving. I see people just holding down the mouse button heavy lightning full time

DrNukenstein

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

At least they are talking about weaving. I see people just holding down the mouse button heavy lightning full time

I just don't get the appeal of playing a staff shaker with like 4k spell damage and no defense at all except for staying as far away from fights as possible.

I saw those two sets the tarnished and the construct and saw insane possibilities as soon as those patch notes hit, and had them day 3. It's not just that they allow you to have a quadra-proc gank build, it's that you can be a full on brawler with a double proc gank build.

If you are using such powerful and efficient to slot procs to bean people from down town you are doing it wroooong. The proper way is this:

-Construct
-Tarnished DW front bar
-Mythic+Trainee heavy shirt (I like to use SSC with a special potion that I buffer during my heavy attack ganks)
-Rallying cry ice staff or 2h back bar

This hits all the brawler benchmarks, all of them so you can help your team and actually fight people. While at the same time being able to stun and dunk for over 40k in IC.

You can also run vat 2h and construct with 2 tank sets of choice but that's actually stupid.

xylena_lazarow

DrNukenstein wrote: »

That sounds so boring why would you want to play like that?

Some of the heavy attack guys I've talked to mentioned having physical injuries or disabilities that limited their apm. That playstyle is plenty fair though, it's pretty easy to counter. These ranged stealth gankers? You've got high apm tryhards sitting in perfect safety, zero risk, chunking people for 20k with one button from 41m away, just because they can. I'm still gonna tell myself to hate the game, not the player, because it's on ZOS for enabling such a heinous playstyle.

DrNukenstein

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

chunking people for 20k with one button from 41m away

But they could be destroying people for 40k from 7 meters away while being part of the tank meta. Instead they are thinking small and playing small.

xylena_lazarow

DrNukenstein wrote: »

But they could be destroying people for 40k from 7 meters away while being part of the tank meta. Instead they are thinking small and playing small.

Indeed, these are not bad players, they can do better. But why put yourself in a situation where a mistake in melee range gets you killed by some sweatlord like me? Range lets you play like a potato and suffer no consequences, because you're invisible, 41m away, behind a zerg, and only 8 seconds until your next brainless ranged proc stack is ready to go.

DrNukenstein

ranged crouch heavies don't stun. can't get that incap damage buff for the axe and follow up from downtown. melee enjoyers get to throw the axe twice as often and with half the travel time.

Theignson

Melee is at a big disadvantage these days.

The exception is NB's who are supported by their ball group and thus can stack damage sets and either do RoA/VD pull/stun/ulti (which is the only thing ball groups do these days) or build super damage builds and pop people with their ridiculously OP spectral bows while basking in the invulnerability of unkillable ball groups.

Really the game has strayed so far from balance that its almost pointless to post.

But so many issues.

I find the new RoA even worse than before. I get pulled with no warning from far outside the 12m range. At least with DC there is a ground effect so you know to block. As a solo the only recourse is to avoid the unkillable ball groups and their stupi, stale, old Pull/fear/dump.

Ranged is low risk high reward.

Sorc is way OP. For a couple months after U41 I only played my magsorc, since it was so strong. Recently I decided to play some of my melee: Necro, NBs, DK.

Necro is the worst off. Can't get basic buffs whereas other classes get free buffs on both bars just for equipping already OP skills (such as cloak). I had hoped scribing would help, but it doesn't. Necro has no mobility, bad skills, no damage.

Etc.

xylena_lazarow

DrNukenstein wrote: »

ranged crouch heavies don't stun. can't get that incap damage buff for the axe and follow up from downtown. melee enjoyers get to throw the axe twice as often and with half the travel time.

I love fighting melee gankers. If I don't react, they get me. But if I do, I get to hunt them down. It's high risk, high reward, intense PvP. The complete opposite of this low risk, low skill ceiling, ranged proc clown festival.

kurbbie_s

Theignson wrote: »

Ganking used to be high risk, high reward; you'd have to stealth right up to someone, and if your gank failed, you were dead (before the huge Healthy Offerings buff made NB so tanky).

With this ranged ganking plus stealth, its low risk, high reward.

Just another example of how PvP has gotten out of balance. Sorc is another example of this, with Hardened Ward Sorc is very effective at ranged fighting. Since U41 I've only played my Mag Sorc, it is simply way too strong. Mag Sorc used to take some skill, now it is easy mode

lol no, you could just stealth away. NB gameplay is easy mode

SandandStars

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Im assuming he meant the bow proc and not incap, but I could be wrong

There's a really heinous play pattern I've noticed with the spectral bow lately. NB charges it up with ranged light attacks from absolute safety, goes invis, then dumps a stealth spectral bow combo on a player on the other side of the field who the NB never even had to risk engaging. Still somehow feels more fair than ranged burst proc stacking.

On this note: Whenever I’m dueling someone 1v 1 in a battle ground and we’re having a close fight and I’m about to win it, and risking low health in order to do so, it is always an NB that chooses to gank me at that moment from somewhere far away.

Almost like they’re sitting there cloaked just waiting for somebody to get low on health.

I think it’s funny that they get so much enjoyment out of it.

Iriidius

JustLovely wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

But on the other side you have tons of proc heals and self heals. Depending on group composition all of the above can hit a player and they won't even really feel it.

There's also a good amount of players that obviously enjoy the ranged damage they can deal that allows them to enjoy some level of combat without as much risk. It's a careful interesting balance situation.

Not everyone in Cyrodiil runs in a group.

Players enjoy the range proc (usually from stealth) because it's too effective. They get kills without having to even engage in a fight. They enjoy the risk free ganking, not actually engaging in fights.

This procs are usually used by grouped Xv1 gankers to risk free gank solo players without engaging in fight, they are definitely not making Cyrodiil a better place for solo players overall.
Sure you can also get some kills solo with them, maybe as a sniper from the safety of a wall where you are unreachable, probably against squishy or bad players, but they are much less effektive if the target is not already distracted/wounded/exhausted (out of stamina/magicka) by other players.
Usually it is zerglings that want easy risk free kills without having to even engage in a fight althought engaging in a fight as a zerg is already much less risky than as a solo player, while as a solo player against a group you have luck if the kill is only a risk and not suicide and would probably prefer a more difficult to use/master build if it gave you a higher chance to win.
Other things like elfbane oil/coldfire allowed solo players much better to risk free kill without having to engage in fight while still having drawbacks for Zerglings(limited Siege spots, cant be moved to chase players) and still got nerfed/removed.

Iriidius

Durham wrote: »

Destruction staff debuff that lasts for 16 years and procs damage at no cost is to good and pushed destruction staff above all melee damage atm.

-Duel wield has a great AOE execution. That's about it.
-Two handers you have Dizzy that is heavily affected by lag. It's very easily avoided. The execution is strong only at very-low health but misses often.
- Sword and Shield < Ice staff.

There has been a damage creep over the past few years with ranged abilities with no drawbacks while Melee has a huge drawback it's only 6 to 7 meters!

The game is turning into a first-person shooter and ball groups.

Best is to use dual wield frontbar and froststaff with elemental suspectability backbar and still get all the debuffs if you have meele class skills/spammable or master dual wield. Ranged weapons itself still has less damage than meele weapons, but they get carried by proc sets(although proc sets also have lower weapon dmg to scale on range weapons but not enaugh to destroy range advantage).
Many meele Skills(Jabs, graveyard, DK Dots and molten whip) were nerfed, Dizzy and bloodthirst range not increased like other meele skills and master dual wield as core of most meele proc builds) nerfed. Ice staff on Warden got buffed to deal same dmg as offensive weapon while keeping range advantage. DK is still a meele class, range dk is nonexistent and ranged magnb only good as ganker especially Xv1 but not as brawler unlike meele nb. But it seems like many players like beeing ranged Xv1 gankers. You can deal damage while staying outside of enemy range even against players riding away. Most players nowadays want easy kills where they outnumber the enemy.