What is happening with sorcs?

Skander · June 7

I think we need some nerfs and not buffs on a class that needs only one skill to stay alive

I guess 32k resistences + minor protection isn't enough to mitiguate shards to a healable level

danko355 · June 7

You were attacked by at least 3 people and your argument is that you should easily outheal their damage? 4-6k crystal frags are laughable compared to 10-18k merciless resolves

Skander · June 7

danko355 wrote: »

You were attacked by at least 3 people and your argument is that you should easily outheal their damage? 4-6k crystal frags are laughable compared to 10-18k merciless resolves

If you are doing 18k merciless you either are doing it to someone without armor, or you die at the first light attack

xylena_lazarow · June 8

Not the greatest example since OP was zerged, but also not wrong that "one skill to stay alive" is a problem.

heng14rwb17_ESO · June 8

How come CF DMG so low ?

Bushido2513 · June 8

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Not the greatest example since OP was zerged, but also not wrong that "one skill to stay alive" is a problem.

They could have left ward off the bar and the result would be the same. Insert roll dodged to continue

Turtle_Bot · June 8

4-6k frags procs is really nothing special at all. That's a 3k hard cast frags at best which is barely above what my pure tank sorc build puts out for frags against other brawler builds...

As for this screenshot, it really is not a good example, you had 3 different sorcs on you at the same time (possibly even more than just those 3 with IC being crowded lately to farm scripts), probably all casting much more that lead to this death than what is shown here.
3v1 will always put out significant damage that is very hard to survive against (especially if the 3 are even remotely competent on somewhat decent builds).

While I agree that ward is very strong right now and that healing in general needs addressing, what is shown here is really nothing special or even worth mentioning.

NB are currently able to put out 8-10k merc resolves on tanks, especially when running a build that "dies to the first light attack". The same build on a NB using merc resolve against squishy players "with no armor" will be easily put out at minimum 20k+ (more likely 25k+) and 35k+ if merc resolve crits. NB also has its own 1 button heal (that has existed for 2 years at this point with zero signs of it ever getting balanced) that takes it from 0 to 100 instantly.

xylena_lazarow · June 8

Bushido2513 wrote: »

They could have left ward off the bar and the result would be the same. Insert roll dodged to continue

Wait. I got it. Don't nerf Ward, instead add a burst heal to roll dodge! /s

Araneae6537 · June 8

Sorc needs more viable attack skills than crystal frags. I want to zap foes with lightning! ⚡️

kyle.wilson · June 8

That could very easily have been 4 people hiding and snipe spamming you instead.
That might be the cleanest death recap I've seen in a long time. not one proc set triggered.
Bow gankers are proc and pray.

Bushido2513 · June 8

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

They could have left ward off the bar and the result would be the same. Insert roll dodged to continue

Wait. I got it. Don't nerf Ward, instead add a burst heal to roll dodge! /s

Or play Warden and absorb some projectiles and stun them lol. Just pointing out that this scenario has little to do with the defensive capabilities of the attackers.

xylena_lazarow · June 8

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Or play Warden and absorb some projectiles and stun them lol. Just pointing out that this scenario has little to do with the defensive capabilities of the attackers.

Sure thing, first let's combine Crystal Slab and Polar Wind into a single skill to keep up with Ward.

SandandStars · June 9

my 2 cents: hardened ward is a bit op

if u want to nullify crystal frags in pvp use dodgeroll, a lot

it shuts frags down

Bushido2513 · June 10

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Or play Warden and absorb some projectiles and stun them lol. Just pointing out that this scenario has little to do with the defensive capabilities of the attackers.

Sure thing, first let's combine Crystal Slab and Polar Wind into a single skill to keep up with Ward.

I mean a Warden can already cancel out a sorc between the slab, polar, and free cleanse of curse here and there.

And sorc isn't touching Warden aoe damage capabilities.

Not saying one thing or another about ward but just that each class still has their own specialties that have to be considered.

Major_Toughness · June 10

SandandStars wrote: »

my 2 cents: hardened ward is a bit op

if u want to nullify crystal frags in pvp use dodgeroll, a lot

it shuts frags down

What do you do after dodging 5 times in 10 seconds and have no stam left? Get hit by 15k frags and die?

xylena_lazarow · June 10

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I mean a Warden can already cancel out a sorc between the slab, polar, and free cleanse of curse here and there. And sorc isn't touching Warden aoe damage capabilities.

Very cool, 3 active skills to do what Sorc can do by mashing their face on 1 button.

As someone who actually plays Warden DD, you do not want to be dumping you mag pool on Slab, you are only stalling the Sorc, better to shoot them. Dazing Soul and Master Ice Reach absolutely ruin many Sorcs, they don't know what to do without range advantage. Against better Sorcs, ranged pressure into ranged stun opens up melee kill combo windows.

While Wardens are indeed strong group DDs, they are not broken in that role (high hp dedicated Polar healers are broken). Sorc is broken as an open world DD because of 1 button that does what everyone else needs 3 buttons for.

Bushido2513 · June 10

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I mean a Warden can already cancel out a sorc between the slab, polar, and free cleanse of curse here and there. And sorc isn't touching Warden aoe damage capabilities.

Very cool, 3 active skills to do what Sorc can do by mashing their face on 1 button.

As someone who actually plays Warden DD, you do not want to be dumping you mag pool on Slab, you are only stalling the Sorc, better to shoot them. Dazing Soul and Master Ice Reach absolutely ruin many Sorcs, they don't know what to do without range advantage. Against better Sorcs, ranged pressure into ranged stun opens up melee kill combo windows.

While Wardens are indeed strong group DDs, they are not broken in that role (high hp dedicated Polar healers are broken). Sorc is broken as an open world DD because of 1 button that does what everyone else needs 3 buttons for.

1 button and usually 2 skill slotted with a dedication to mag pool. That never gets mentioned much in the one skill argument. Not that this doesn't work well but it's also not just one skill.

Jsmalls · June 10

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I mean a Warden can already cancel out a sorc between the slab, polar, and free cleanse of curse here and there. And sorc isn't touching Warden aoe damage capabilities.

Very cool, 3 active skills to do what Sorc can do by mashing their face on 1 button.

As someone who actually plays Warden DD, you do not want to be dumping you mag pool on Slab, you are only stalling the Sorc, better to shoot them. Dazing Soul and Master Ice Reach absolutely ruin many Sorcs, they don't know what to do without range advantage. Against better Sorcs, ranged pressure into ranged stun opens up melee kill combo windows.

While Wardens are indeed strong group DDs, they are not broken in that role (high hp dedicated Polar healers are broken). Sorc is broken as an open world DD because of 1 button that does what everyone else needs 3 buttons for.

Polar = Ward
Betty = Crit Surge (except Betty wipes the floor with surge, major sorc, a purge, a sustain tool, and a damage opener? Buff surge please)
Slab = Nothing really equivalent but I guess Bound Aegis

Once again make bound aegis a 20 second buff like it used to be. Oh no I'll have to hit another button every 20 seconds, this is the end for sure!!! Nothing will change with Bound Aegis being an active but if you want us to hit more buttons ask for this.

So no not 3 active skills in 1. Keep trying though you're almost there.

xylena_lazarow · June 10

Jsmalls wrote: »

Keep trying though you're almost there.

Nah I've been here a while, you forum Sorcs keep trying to move the goalposts. We don't need to talk about timer buffs like Surge because every class has those (and having the option for a meta MagSorc that only needs a single 33sec timer is another advantage). Let's talk about active defenses when focused by multiples in Cyro or BGs, and let's only look at healing skills, not mobility skills like Streak or Falcon, or timer buffs, or things everyone does like blocking and dodging.

MagSorc DD = Ward

Warden DD = Polar + Vigor

This is because minmaxed Ward is as strong as Polar and Vigor combined for self sustain.

DrNukenstein · June 10

HAHA! your class is easy now

Urzigurumash · June 10

They are all except Necro.

True champions only play the worst class

Galeriano2 · June 10

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Not the greatest example since OP was zerged, but also not wrong that "one skill to stay alive" is a problem.

Out of curosity, You don't have surge, bound aegis, dark conversion and streak to stay alive on Your sorc? You are truly surviving everything with just spaming one ability and having all the other 11 ability slots purely offensively?

xylena_lazarow · June 10

Galeriano2 wrote: »

You are truly surviving everything with just spaming one ability and having all the other 11 ability slots purely offensively?

What buttons do you press when focused? Ward. Maybe Streak. Everyone else has at least 3 mandatory.

StaticWave · June 11

Let's just say Sorc is still the best solo class in Cyrodiil. NB is a close 2nd but definitely not the best after Sorc buffs.

Joy_Division · June 11

StaticWave wrote: »

Let's just say Sorc is still the best solo class in Cyrodiil. NB is a close 2nd but definitely not the best after Sorc buffs.

I'm genuinely curious what your tirr list would be.

I havent played much the past three years and I respect your knowledge of PvP.

StaticWave · June 13

Joy_Division wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Let's just say Sorc is still the best solo class in Cyrodiil. NB is a close 2nd but definitely not the best after Sorc buffs.

I'm genuinely curious what your tirr list would be.

I havent played much the past three years and I respect your knowledge of PvP.

For solo PvP? I'm ranking based on 2 factors: survivability and how quickly the class can get kills. The list for me will look like this:

Sorc > NB > Warden > Plar > Arc > DK > Necro

Sorc is on top because it has exceptional survivability with Streak + movement speed + Ward/multiple strong HoTs, and big single target burst with Curse + Cfrag/Cwep + spammable. Top tier Sorc players are often so fast and slippery that you need entire teams to catch them. With the buffs to Ward and access to multiple burst heals, Sorc's healing weakness is no longer a weakness. The class essentially has everything right now and sits above everything else.

NB is a close 2nd because while it possesses exceptional survivability with Cloak + movement speed and big single target burst, players are smarter now and will bring Cloak counters. That means Streak is still better as an escape tool when you are overwhelmingly outnumbered because not everyone slots a gap closer or is as fast as you are.

Warden takes 3rd place because it lacks escape options. Sure it's tankier than Sorc or NB and has strong AoE burst to kill someone quickly, but without Cloak or Streak it will quickly get overwhelmed when more opponents show up.

Plar is 4th place because it lacks enough damage. This class is very tanky, but it just doesn't have enough burst unless you build really high spell damage. PL requires you to build up damage in 6 seconds before you can actually burst someone with it, but do you really have 6 seconds to do so? Compared to NB or Sorc who can just cast Curse + Frag or Merc Resolve and explode someone, Plar's offensive kit seems lack luster.

Arc is 5th place because it shares the same issue as Plar. While it has very strong survivability, it lacks in the damage department. Its kit is mostly pressure based, and you don't really have time to do pressure in an outnumbered situation. You may have 2-3 seconds at best to kill someone before they overwhelm you and Arc's toolkit just doesn't allow it to burst someone fast enough within that window.

DK is 6th because it is the opposite of Arc. While DK has better pressure than Arc, it lacks the same survivability of Arc. All of that pressure won't mean anything when you can't survive against multiple opponents. So what do DKs do? They build tankier, and that sacrifices damage. DK builds in Cyrodiil often don't have enough burst to kill people quickly because they had already sacrificed their offensive stats for defense. They could, in theory, crutch on Corrosive as their offense and free up stats for penetration, but it's just not efficient compared to classes like Sorc or NB who straight up have better survivability.

Necro is unfortunately last place because it's just a badly designed class in general. They lack Major buffs, don't have any useful escape tools, and even their heals are weaker than the top 3 classes. Their offense is also not really good either. Blastbones can be seen a mile away and doesn't work some times, and outside of that skill the class doesn't have any kill potential.

EDIT: I changed the ranking between Arc and Plar

StaticWave · June 13

Here is a video example of my survivability ranking featuring a Sorc (my POV), a Warden, and an Arc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmE6WwJ8dc

Name of the players:

Me - StaticWave
The Warden - Simperial
The Arc - totomaru88

As you can see from the video, I could quite literally escape that zerg multiple times if I wanted, but I purposely jumped back into the zerg to stun them so the other 2 players could escape. Even with my help, they couldn't because they didn't have Streak. They ended up dying towards the end if you look at the chat box.

I eventually died, but only because my Ward was on front bar instead of back bar. I also played with 300+ ping, so bar swapping wasn't really working at the time. If I had Ward back bar and played with lower latency, I would have 100% survived that fight because I've survived that scenario many times in the past when I used to play at lower latency.

I can guarantee everyone here Sorc is the only class that can do this. Sorc has always had good damage, but lacked in the healing department. With the buff to Ward and access to burst heals, Sorc's weakness is gone. It's too strong now in the hands of a good player.

Joy_Division · June 13

@StaticWave
Thx for your explanations!

Firstmep · June 13

Skander wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

You were attacked by at least 3 people and your argument is that you should easily outheal their damage? 4-6k crystal frags are laughable compared to 10-18k merciless resolves

If you are doing 18k merciless you either are doing it to someone without armor, or you die at the first light attack

My 30k resist 3k impen nord templar regularly eats 10-15k incaps/bows from nbs wearing multiple procsets, their dmg is overturned as hell rn.

xylena_lazarow · June 13

StaticWave wrote: »

Sorc > NB > Warden > Plar > Arc > DK > Necro

99% agree, though I'd consider Plar/Arc/DK close enough to be on the same tier.

Firstmep wrote: »

My 30k resist 3k impen nord templar regularly eats 10-15k incaps/bows from nbs wearing multiple procsets, their dmg is overturned as hell rn.

10k damage melee ult to a tank isn't "overtuned" and doesn't even break through Hardened Ward. The only thing overtuned about NB is Healthy Offering, for similar reasons to Ward being broken on Sorc.

Galeriano2 · June 13

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

You are truly surviving everything with just spaming one ability and having all the other 11 ability slots purely offensively?

What buttons do you press when focused? Ward. Maybe Streak. Everyone else has at least 3 mandatory.

Ward, streak and dark deal are 3 mandatory for sorc.