Really Disappointed with the Scribing Skills

AlterBlika

I wish we could use more major buffs/debuffs. I personally was looking forward to major breach aoe skill, I hate caltrops in non-stationary fights. I mean, we can get pretty unique effects like aoe minor breach, minor evasion, minor mangle, but not something simple like aoe major breach.

Imperial_Archmage

Shadowbinder7 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

The current iteration of scribing feels boring and limiting, but it has potential, provided you actually go on and add new and exciting abilities. Pressing a button should give us a small dopamine hit, but instead what I get now is a slightly orange tinted Trap that's even hard to notice the difference even while fully zoomed in. I am not saying you should give us beams that can destroy the moon like FFXIV, but something cool would be nice for a change. Arcanist has a few skills you can use as a reference.

First, thanks for the feedback and share your experience in other games. That summary gives a good benchmark for how you view skills in ESO vs. other things you have played.

So the plan is to support this system over time, just like many of our other systems. We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point. If there isn't something that resonates in the current suite of skills, we will add more and will look to player feedback to inform some direction.

Also remember that we are trying to think holistically about skill design. For example, the Arcanist was mentioned. But for every one person who loves the look of some of those skills, we've also gotten player feedback that some of the Arcanist skills are too flashy and wished they were more muted. Not saying we won't do skills like that in the future, just want to put in perspective that we are looking at accommodating all kinds of players here, so building out that variety of skills and the visuals associated takes time and feedback.

If you are looking for feedback, ZOS devs:

Imho this scribing system is a nice idea but unfortunately not truly as “free to modify” skills as it is portrayed. Many major/minor buffs are only allowed on one or two skills (such as force or brutality) when they would be perfectly fine, not OP or game breaking on all the other skills!

Limiting buffs, debuffs (what you have named as affix scripts) as well as signature scripts to only a selection per ability, or a certain script only appearing on 2 of 11 abilities is hardly “craft spells artistically how you see fit” is it?

Furthermore. Why on “wield soul” are all the affix bonuses 10 seconds not 20?? Completely puts me off using it, who wants 10 secs of major brutality? It’s too short. I can’t take the “it’s a spammable” excuse, since the power is noticeably lower than standard spammable (crushing shock, class ones etc). All the affix scripts should be 20secs long for any grimoire, that’s only fair

Also the damage/heal of the DOT signature scripts are a little low? Like I understand they can’t be too OP to creep into Meta dps builds, same as the healing, or other buffs useful for tanks…

But the effects are… really weak? They should be mildly increased imho, to make all effects actually compatible with current not scribing alternatives. This would not be “pay to win” simply it would be making your system you have marketed actually useful and fun!

Please consider these. Not really complicated it’s just a case of tweaking and being more free and open with your Scribing system. Live up to the name and theme

I really wish they would stop being so full-throated with the whole "We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point." The 4000 thing is just a talking point and an overly inflated number for shock value. It's 11 skills with a number of minor variations. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously at all when that's their starting point.

Elsonso

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

The 4000 thing is just a talking point and an overly inflated number for shock value. It's 11 skills with a number of minor variations. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously at all when that's their starting point.

11 skills that don't adequately cover the range, so it is not surprising that some people are underwhelmed. We are left waiting to see what they trickle out over the next couple of years.

If this were a restaurant, I would send it back and ask them to keep cooking it until it stops trying to crawl off my plate.

Shadowbinder7

I read this again and it’s just so painfully accurate… sigh… we waiting ZOS… we waiting

Pevey

Some of the skills are being used very often by healers and tanks. Probably also for solo play. None seem useful at the moment for dps in 12-person groups, but overall I think it is a pretty good start. This was really hard to implement in a way that would not be incredibly unbalanced. So difficult they decided not to do it for years and years. But people kept asking for it, so they did it. It strikes me as a rare example of ZOS actually listening to player feedback.

In terms of overall feedback on Gold Road, I think scribing was the best part to come from it. But I fully agree that it's overly grindy. They want to keep users engaged long term, but this is not the way. If you go overboard with grind, users just give up and tune out.

Shadowbinder7

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Actually, Traveling Knife is one of my favorite Scribing skills. Using Multi-Target, Warrior's Opportunity, and Vulnerability, I can make an AoE explosion which afflicts enemies with Minor Vulnerability (+5% damage taken) and causes them to take +8% martial damage. I debuff with Shattering Knife, then use Biting Jabs (which deals Physical Damage, which counts as martial damage for the increased damage taken).

I like Shattering Knife more than the skill I used to slot there, Ritual of Retribution, because Shattering Knife is a mobile skill, whereas Ritual of Retribution is a ground skill which is fixed on a location. I also like having more range in my build, apart from Radiant Oppression, and the cost being Stamina makes it much more worthwhile. The only annoying part is that the range is much smaller than I'd like, but apart from that, it's my favorite Scribing skill so far.

Alright, that's a pretty good use case. Doesn't change the fact that it's still just customizable shrouded daggers or AOE FG crossbow, but with buffs and debuffs. Maybe it's a stronger way to soften up a target/targets from range, but that's not opening up new possibilities just powercreeping stronger possibilities.

This is what hurt me a lot with travelling knife. Why make such a skill, when shrouded daggers was so nice but it’s nerfed and left in the dust? It’s not powerful enough for aoe or single target, just mediocre for both ( but such a nice ability

Pelanora

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

Shadowbinder7 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

The current iteration of scribing feels boring and limiting, but it has potential, provided you actually go on and add new and exciting abilities. Pressing a button should give us a small dopamine hit, but instead what I get now is a slightly orange tinted Trap that's even hard to notice the difference even while fully zoomed in. I am not saying you should give us beams that can destroy the moon like FFXIV, but something cool would be nice for a change. Arcanist has a few skills you can use as a reference.

First, thanks for the feedback and share your experience in other games. That summary gives a good benchmark for how you view skills in ESO vs. other things you have played.

So the plan is to support this system over time, just like many of our other systems. We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point. If there isn't something that resonates in the current suite of skills, we will add more and will look to player feedback to inform some direction.

Also remember that we are trying to think holistically about skill design. For example, the Arcanist was mentioned. But for every one person who loves the look of some of those skills, we've also gotten player feedback that some of the Arcanist skills are too flashy and wished they were more muted. Not saying we won't do skills like that in the future, just want to put in perspective that we are looking at accommodating all kinds of players here, so building out that variety of skills and the visuals associated takes time and feedback.

If you are looking for feedback, ZOS devs:

Imho this scribing system is a nice idea but unfortunately not truly as “free to modify” skills as it is portrayed. Many major/minor buffs are only allowed on one or two skills (such as force or brutality) when they would be perfectly fine, not OP or game breaking on all the other skills!

Limiting buffs, debuffs (what you have named as affix scripts) as well as signature scripts to only a selection per ability, or a certain script only appearing on 2 of 11 abilities is hardly “craft spells artistically how you see fit” is it?

Furthermore. Why on “wield soul” are all the affix bonuses 10 seconds not 20?? Completely puts me off using it, who wants 10 secs of major brutality? It’s too short. I can’t take the “it’s a spammable” excuse, since the power is noticeably lower than standard spammable (crushing shock, class ones etc). All the affix scripts should be 20secs long for any grimoire, that’s only fair

Also the damage/heal of the DOT signature scripts are a little low? Like I understand they can’t be too OP to creep into Meta dps builds, same as the healing, or other buffs useful for tanks…

But the effects are… really weak? They should be mildly increased imho, to make all effects actually compatible with current not scribing alternatives. This would not be “pay to win” simply it would be making your system you have marketed actually useful and fun!

Please consider these. Not really complicated it’s just a case of tweaking and being more free and open with your Scribing system. Live up to the name and theme

I really wish they would stop being so full-throated with the whole "We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point." The 4000 thing is just a talking point and an overly inflated number for shock value. It's 11 skills with a number of minor variations. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously at all when that's their starting point.

Yea I thought 'you have 4000 choices' was particularly egregious [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

Elsonso

Pelanora wrote: »

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

I really wish they would stop being so full-throated with the whole "We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point." The 4000 thing is just a talking point and an overly inflated number for shock value. It's 11 skills with a number of minor variations. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously at all when that's their starting point.

Yea I thought 'you have 4000 choices' was particularly egregious [snip]

I think they started doing that back when Dyes were first introduced. The "combinations" really aren't a metric anyone should care about when in the game. With Dyes, I would have been happier with colors that did not look like they had been through the wash a million times.

When I hear this sort of thing from them, I immediately assume that the useful combinations will be significantly fewer. Like, orders of magnitude fewer.

In this case, I assume the system realistically tops out somewhere between 4 and 40 combinations. For me, the combinations maxed out at 0, and that is why I am not interested in it. Looking at the system, I have to consider that when they have had a bit to work on it, I might reach 4.

[edited to remove quote]

Necrotech_Master

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

Shadowbinder7 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

The current iteration of scribing feels boring and limiting, but it has potential, provided you actually go on and add new and exciting abilities. Pressing a button should give us a small dopamine hit, but instead what I get now is a slightly orange tinted Trap that's even hard to notice the difference even while fully zoomed in. I am not saying you should give us beams that can destroy the moon like FFXIV, but something cool would be nice for a change. Arcanist has a few skills you can use as a reference.

First, thanks for the feedback and share your experience in other games. That summary gives a good benchmark for how you view skills in ESO vs. other things you have played.

So the plan is to support this system over time, just like many of our other systems. We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point. If there isn't something that resonates in the current suite of skills, we will add more and will look to player feedback to inform some direction.

Also remember that we are trying to think holistically about skill design. For example, the Arcanist was mentioned. But for every one person who loves the look of some of those skills, we've also gotten player feedback that some of the Arcanist skills are too flashy and wished they were more muted. Not saying we won't do skills like that in the future, just want to put in perspective that we are looking at accommodating all kinds of players here, so building out that variety of skills and the visuals associated takes time and feedback.

If you are looking for feedback, ZOS devs:

Imho this scribing system is a nice idea but unfortunately not truly as “free to modify” skills as it is portrayed. Many major/minor buffs are only allowed on one or two skills (such as force or brutality) when they would be perfectly fine, not OP or game breaking on all the other skills!

Limiting buffs, debuffs (what you have named as affix scripts) as well as signature scripts to only a selection per ability, or a certain script only appearing on 2 of 11 abilities is hardly “craft spells artistically how you see fit” is it?

Furthermore. Why on “wield soul” are all the affix bonuses 10 seconds not 20?? Completely puts me off using it, who wants 10 secs of major brutality? It’s too short. I can’t take the “it’s a spammable” excuse, since the power is noticeably lower than standard spammable (crushing shock, class ones etc). All the affix scripts should be 20secs long for any grimoire, that’s only fair

Also the damage/heal of the DOT signature scripts are a little low? Like I understand they can’t be too OP to creep into Meta dps builds, same as the healing, or other buffs useful for tanks…

But the effects are… really weak? They should be mildly increased imho, to make all effects actually compatible with current not scribing alternatives. This would not be “pay to win” simply it would be making your system you have marketed actually useful and fun!

Please consider these. Not really complicated it’s just a case of tweaking and being more free and open with your Scribing system. Live up to the name and theme

I really wish they would stop being so full-throated with the whole "We think the close to 4000 total combinations of skills is a good starting point, but it is just that, a starting point." The 4000 thing is just a talking point and an overly inflated number for shock value. It's 11 skills with a number of minor variations. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously at all when that's their starting point.

i dont think the 4000 is a talking point, its roughly the max number of possible combinations of all available grimoires and scripts

in terms of actual functionality, i agree its still only 11 grimoires, which means 11 animations that may do slightly different things, but thats about it

Pelanora

They tried to close down discussions that the limits on what could be made were very restrictive on the utility of this new function, with 'but you have 4000 choices' so it was more than a talking point. It was a ruse.

darvaria

You have to replace another skill on your already limited skill bars. There should have been some passives.

I can't stand scribing. I just hope none of them become meta in PVP.

katanagirl1

darvaria wrote: »

You have to replace another skill on your already limited skill bars. There should have been some passives.

I can't stand scribing. I just hope none of them become meta in PVP.

Scribing has taken the pain threshold of Cyrodiil performance to new highs. You are constantly pulled into something, and I swear I was getting vaulted all over the place in one fight. If someone else wants to use vault themselves, that’s fine but why should they be able to make me do it?

The pull scribing skill is as bad as Dark Convergence at its peak, but I haven’t heard anyone complain about it like they did the set.

AnduinTryggva

I have done the scribing quest line even before I did the zone quest of Gold Road and really enjoyed it.

Then I started to farm a bit of ink and did not really invest much into scribing as I was not sure how and where to use it.

Now I have a few ideas on how to create skills that could complement my toolset of my tank builds.

So I've invested money to buy grimoires, farmed scripts (I still have to find almost all the scripts for the arch mage achievement).

And now checked what I can build.

And what a deception it was. I could not create the skills that lack in my toolset.

I have an arcanist tank and I wanted to great a skill that can pull multiple targets as pulling is only possible by using the crossbow afaik. But I was forced to realize that this is not at all possible because I can either pull one target OR hit multiple targets irrespective of the fact that not having considered yet the limitation to the weapons in use.

So the ONLY way to pull multiple target is by getting the equipment. Because both pull and multiple targets are focus skripts and you can only use one single fokus script.

What a deception.

I really hope they add more in the future (but hopefully not by crown items what I fear they might).

Syiccal

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I have done the scribing quest line even before I did the zone quest of Gold Road and really enjoyed it.

Then I started to farm a bit of ink and did not really invest much into scribing as I was not sure how and where to use it.

Now I have a few ideas on how to create skills that could complement my toolset of my tank builds.

So I've invested money to buy grimoires, farmed scripts (I still have to find almost all the scripts for the arch mage achievement).

And now checked what I can build.

And what a deception it was. I could not create the skills that lack in my toolset.

I have an arcanist tank and I wanted to great a skill that can pull multiple targets as pulling is only possible by using the crossbow afaik. But I was forced to realize that this is not at all possible because I can either pull one target OR hit multiple targets irrespective of the fact that not having considered yet the limitation to the weapons in use.

So the ONLY way to pull multiple target is by getting the equipment. Because both pull and multiple targets are focus skripts and you can only use one single fokus script.

What a deception.

I really hope they add more in the future (but hopefully not by crown items what I fear they might).

Now, I'm pretty sure that arc already has a decent Aoe pull ability in thier skill set

AnduinTryggva

Fair enough.

But this does not solve the lack of such for other tank builds like my nightblade tank.

Necrotech_Master

pretty sure you can put the pull script on both soul magic abilities, one for ranged single target, and one for closer aoe

putting pull on soul burst basically acts like the vateshran 1h/shield, at the cost of 1 skill slot, instead of 1 skill slot + requiring a specific 1h/shield

if you want a ranged pull you can put the script on wield soul and it functions the same as the DK chains, and can be used regardless of weapons used

Stafford197

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

A lot of people were expecting something more like the infamous Spellcrafting presentation many years ago and a familiar would be really cool in my opinion.

….We do want to note that we made it pretty clear that Scribing would not be the same as spellcrafting or the 10yr old spellcrafting presentation from the beginning. There are several things we had to take into account to make sure things were not broken balance-wise.

But we also want to note that the feedback on wanting more customization is noted. Again, a lot of that has to do with balancing.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

The whole "This is just a starting point" statement feels suspiciously like what they said when the introduced the garbage fire that is Sacrifical Bones on the necro. Where they "Knew that it isn't where we want it to be" and that they'd "keep an eye on it".

To clarify, "This is just a starting point" was just to signal this is a new system and we will be expanding on it overtime. Just like we have with other systems, like Scrying or Tales of Tribute. These systems see additions overtime.

Thanks for confirming.

So you guys scrapped the massively hyped Elder Scrolls feature Spellcrafting, because it was too hard to balance?

Ability types across the entire game are standardized. The combat team made a huge effort to accomplish this, and likewise used these standard tooltip values to balance Scribing. Both Spellcrafting and Scribing are balanced the exact same way, so the argument for balance is completely incorrect. So what’s the real difference then? Well.

Spellcrafting is a complete system, similar to Jewelrycrafting from Summerset.
Scribing is an ongoing system which can be leveraged to make new OP abilities to incentivize further DLC purchases.

At the end of the day, Spellcrafting was the hyped feature people were waiting for. It would have been really fun to play around with in this game. Smh

Dax_Draconis

I still really don't grasp scribing.

Is there anything worth scribing for my stamblade DD in PvE?

Erickson9610

Can someone please explain to me what makes Scribing so different from Spellcrafting? They both are similar in concept — customizable skills. You choose what your skills do. What in particular makes people upset that we got Scribing and not Spellcrafting?

AvalonRanger

Simply say, scribing combat parameter is not so different from default skill line.
Too much weak! Or very limited customization

Despite of heavy grinding process, it can't rebalance current combat.
Not game changer at all.

Erickson9610

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Simply say, scribing combat parameter is not so different from default skill line.
Too much weak! Or very limited customization

Despite of heavy grinding process, it can't rebalance current combat.
Not game changer at all.

So if Grimoires had more eligible Script combinations and those abilities were buffed, then they'd be worthwhile? U43 is making more Script combinations possible as well as buffing certain Grimoires.

I think once we get more Scripts/Grimoires added in future updates, the system will be a game changer for more players.

Many of the Spellcrafting skills showcased 10 years ago could be adapted into Grimoires — for instance, that Atronach Spellcrafting skill that was showcased could become its own Scribing skill, and maybe it'll change its color and damage type depending on the selected Focus Script.

TaSheen

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me what makes Scribing so different from Spellcrafting? They both are similar in concept — customizable skills. You choose what your skills do. What in particular makes people upset that we got Scribing and not Spellcrafting?

Mostly, it's that spellcrafting was going to be extremely OP in a game like this one. Just like it was in the single player titles. Of course in those games it didn't matter - if you wanted to OP your game with it, that hurt no one but you.

Stafford197

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me what makes Scribing so different from Spellcrafting? They both are similar in concept — customizable skills. You choose what your skills do. What in particular makes people upset that we got Scribing and not Spellcrafting?

There’s a lot of information and even gameplay of Spellcrafting from 2014, however the general idea is it’s handled much like the single player titles but balanced to ESO standards.

You would discover the many types of craftable spells by exploring Ayleid Ruins across Tamriel, chart them down in a journal (new mini game), and then you always have them. From there the crafting materials to create Tablets would have been a common resource to acquire from nodes like any other crafting profession. No Luminous Ink.

Spellcrafting was heavily tied into the Mages Guild, and allowed you to acquire skill lines for the five schools of magic: Destruction, Conjuration, Restoration, Illusion, and Alteration. There were a massive amount of base spells many of which came from previous Elder Scrolls games.

So how is it balanced? Well a lot of people don’t know this, but there was a huge push to homogenize all abilities in ESO years ago. The bad part is it heavily stripped away Class Identity, but the good part is it paved the way for a balanced form of Spellcrafting (and Scribing). Examples:
• Impulse, Whirlwind, Drain Power deal the same damage because they are all Direct Damage AoE attacks.
• Dive, Imbue Weapon, Force Shock deal the same damage because they are all Direct Damage Single Target attacks.
• Entropy, Swarm, Cripple deal the same damage because they are all DoT Single Target attacks.

That is how ESO is currently balanced.

Spellcrafting would have similarly been balanced. You could for example craft yourself a brand new Frost Bolt attack, decide on the type of attack (ST, DoT, Direct, etc), then you could choose a method of improvement such as reduced cost, increased/reduced, increased range vs on touch effect. That sort of idea. And from doing this, you could make yourself a full Frost Mage Warden, or a full Shock Mage Sorc, or a full Summoner Sorc through Flame Atronachs, Familiars, Dremora summons, etc. Ultimates would have been craftable as well.

The “balance issue” of it comes from the new functionality, not the actual numbers. In other words, you could craft Muffle from Skyrim, to reduce your footsteps sound for sneaking. You could summon new creatures, which would allow for more powerful minion/easy-to-use Oakensoul like builds. You could make currently bad builds such as PvE non-pet Shock Mage Sorc, into a powerful DPS since you’d acquire many more abilities.

In other words, it would have served as a way to play into your character fantasy and magical archetypes, like in previous Elder Scrolls games. A huge benefit to fun builds. Oh, and since it’s Spellcrafting, it immediately draws from Elder Scrolls player nostalgia which is…. a very good idea, for an Elder Scrolls game. It always allows for TES stuff like vendors selling spells, or one-time use Scrolls to be used. Sounds fun to me.

The only “Spellcrafting-like” abilities we sort of got from Scribing are the Soul Magic scribed abilities, and no one thinks those are too strong.

Stafford197

TaSheen wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me what makes Scribing so different from Spellcrafting? They both are similar in concept — customizable skills. You choose what your skills do. What in particular makes people upset that we got Scribing and not Spellcrafting?

Mostly, it's that spellcrafting was going to be extremely OP in a game like this one. Just like it was in the single player titles. Of course in those games it didn't matter - if you wanted to OP your game with it, that hurt no one but you.

I specified it above but no, Spellcrafting would not be OP, due to tooltip standardization efforts by the Combat Team. Scribing actually brought out the majority of strength we would have received in terms of OP stuff from Spellcrafting.

Spellcrafting would mostly have been “roleplayer” type abilities for fun, and new DoTs/Spammables to apply to currently bad builds so they could be viable.

The actual meta stuff like Arcanist DPS would still be best. However, a currently terrible DPS build like full Shock Mage Sorc would have a ton of new abilities from the Destruction school skill line to catch up a bit,

Plus it is just way more fun which IMO is the most important thing.

Erickson9610

Stafford197 wrote: »

Spellcrafting would have similarly been balanced. You could for example craft yourself a brand new Frost Bolt attack, decide on the type of attack (ST, DoT, Direct, etc), then you could choose a method of improvement such as reduced cost, increased/reduced, increased range vs on touch effect. That sort of idea. And from doing this, you could make yourself a full Frost Mage Warden, or a full Shock Mage Sorc, or a full Summoner Sorc through Flame Atronachs, Familiars, Dremora summons, etc. Ultimates would have been craftable as well.

The “balance issue” of it comes from the new functionality, not the actual numbers. In other words, you could craft Muffle from Skyrim, to reduce your footsteps sound for sneaking. You could summon new creatures, which would allow for more powerful minion/easy-to-use Oakensoul like builds. You could make currently bad builds such as PvE non-pet Shock Mage Sorc, into a powerful DPS since you’d acquire many more abilities.

How would you be able to make a Muffle spell if you could only make damage spells? Was it explained that you'd be able to make any kind of spell, not just damage and summon spells?

From what I understand, Spellcrafting would let you craft any kind of ability from the ground up, whereas Scribing lets you customize specific customizable abilities to serve different purposes.

Scribing could do many of the things that Spellcrafting was said to do, though — we just need ZOS to introduce new Grimoires that have some of that functionality — such as a summon Grimoire that can have its damage type customized, or a "Muffle"-like Grimoire or Script which reduces your detection radius or grants invisibility.


I do understand the frustration of not having all of these options available to us at the start, though. I know Scribing will receive updates yearly, so eventually it'll have plenty of options for any build. Actually, it's because Scribing skills can be introduced for any skill line — rather than just for the 5 schools of magic — that Scribing will offer more flexibility for some builds than Spellcrafting ever could.

Stafford197

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Spellcrafting would have similarly been balanced. You could for example craft yourself a brand new Frost Bolt attack, decide on the type of attack (ST, DoT, Direct, etc), then you could choose a method of improvement such as reduced cost, increased/reduced, increased range vs on touch effect. That sort of idea. And from doing this, you could make yourself a full Frost Mage Warden, or a full Shock Mage Sorc, or a full Summoner Sorc through Flame Atronachs, Familiars, Dremora summons, etc. Ultimates would have been craftable as well.

The “balance issue” of it comes from the new functionality, not the actual numbers. In other words, you could craft Muffle from Skyrim, to reduce your footsteps sound for sneaking. You could summon new creatures, which would allow for more powerful minion/easy-to-use Oakensoul like builds. You could make currently bad builds such as PvE non-pet Shock Mage Sorc, into a powerful DPS since you’d acquire many more abilities.

How would you be able to make a Muffle spell if you could only make damage spells? Was it explained that you'd be able to make any kind of spell, not just damage and summon spells?

From what I understand, Spellcrafting would let you craft any kind of ability from the ground up, whereas Scribing lets you customize specific customizable abilities to serve different purposes.

Scribing could do many of the things that Spellcrafting was said to do, though — we just need ZOS to introduce new Grimoires that have some of that functionality — such as a summon Grimoire that can have its damage type customized, or a "Muffle"-like Grimoire or Script which reduces your detection radius or grants invisibility.


I do understand the frustration of not having all of these options available to us at the start, though. I know Scribing will receive updates yearly, so eventually it'll have plenty of options for any build. Actually, it's because Scribing skills can be introduced for any skill line — rather than just for the 5 schools of magic — that Scribing will offer more flexibility for some builds than Spellcrafting ever could.

No it’s not only damage skills that you could craft. It is all types of abilities from the schools of magic throughout past Elder Scrolls games.

In the showcased gameplay we saw Oakflesh, Muffle, Summon Flame Atronach, and some other stuff. The scribed Soul Magic skills are somewhat like Spellcrafting, but the rest aren’t like and easily could’ve been new Active Abilities instead.

The frustration of having all options available at the start has nothing to do with it. These are fundamentally different features. Spellcrafting was a massive feature which was purely Elder Scrolls-like, adding the TES Schools of Magic, and was focused on build fantasy and fun. Scribing is just some random new feature here to fill holes in existing builds and to provide further incentive to purchase DLC.

Sorry it’s just not for me, imo 2024 has been a total letdown unfortunately.

Erickson9610

Stafford197 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Spellcrafting would have similarly been balanced. You could for example craft yourself a brand new Frost Bolt attack, decide on the type of attack (ST, DoT, Direct, etc), then you could choose a method of improvement such as reduced cost, increased/reduced, increased range vs on touch effect. That sort of idea. And from doing this, you could make yourself a full Frost Mage Warden, or a full Shock Mage Sorc, or a full Summoner Sorc through Flame Atronachs, Familiars, Dremora summons, etc. Ultimates would have been craftable as well.

The “balance issue” of it comes from the new functionality, not the actual numbers. In other words, you could craft Muffle from Skyrim, to reduce your footsteps sound for sneaking. You could summon new creatures, which would allow for more powerful minion/easy-to-use Oakensoul like builds. You could make currently bad builds such as PvE non-pet Shock Mage Sorc, into a powerful DPS since you’d acquire many more abilities.

How would you be able to make a Muffle spell if you could only make damage spells? Was it explained that you'd be able to make any kind of spell, not just damage and summon spells?

From what I understand, Spellcrafting would let you craft any kind of ability from the ground up, whereas Scribing lets you customize specific customizable abilities to serve different purposes.

Scribing could do many of the things that Spellcrafting was said to do, though — we just need ZOS to introduce new Grimoires that have some of that functionality — such as a summon Grimoire that can have its damage type customized, or a "Muffle"-like Grimoire or Script which reduces your detection radius or grants invisibility.


I do understand the frustration of not having all of these options available to us at the start, though. I know Scribing will receive updates yearly, so eventually it'll have plenty of options for any build. Actually, it's because Scribing skills can be introduced for any skill line — rather than just for the 5 schools of magic — that Scribing will offer more flexibility for some builds than Spellcrafting ever could.

No it’s not only damage skills that you could craft. It is all types of abilities from the schools of magic throughout past Elder Scrolls games.

In the showcased gameplay we saw Oakflesh, Muffle, Summon Flame Atronach, and some other stuff. The scribed Soul Magic skills are somewhat like Spellcrafting, but the rest aren’t like and easily could’ve been new Active Abilities instead.

The frustration of having all options available at the start has nothing to do with it. These are fundamentally different features. Spellcrafting was a massive feature which was purely Elder Scrolls-like, adding the TES Schools of Magic, and was focused on build fantasy and fun. Scribing is just some random new feature here to fill holes in existing builds and to provide further incentive to purchase DLC.

Sorry it’s just not for me, imo 2024 has been a total letdown unfortunately.

Oh, so players wanted skills for each school of magic? The appeal behind Spellcrafting was the ability to make any kind of magic at will?


I don't understand how the Soul Magic Grimoires are "somewhat like Spellcrafting" but the other Grimoires aren't. Do all Spellcrafting skills have to be purely magical in nature?


I apologize for the constant questions about Spellcrafting — I've never been interested in using magic in any TES game, and I don't know how those systems worked in those games. Even in ESO, I don't like running Magicka builds.

Scribing has been an appealing feature for me because it can give me new options for martial builds, like the Traveling Knife Grimoire, which I use in PvE. The Scribing system could also potentially give Werewolves a 6th skill to pick from if a Werewolf Grimoire is ever implemented, which would be huge for the build diversity of that playstyle, given how Werewolves can only pick from skills within their own skill line.

If Scribing was solely about the schools of magic, where every ability costed Magicka and belonged to some new skill line, then it would be a total letdown for me.

barney2525

I got the DLC because I Wanted the DLC.

I did the scribing questline because I wanted the 2 seater horse mount. I think it looks fine. I prefer mounts that actually look like some type of animal, rather than a blinding neon sign.

I have accumulated a bunch of inks.

I have never even Looked at what scribing entails, after reading the reviews and what you need , and the fact that to get all the base stuff will cost right around a half a MILLION in game gold.

I'll pass.

Tommy_The_Gun

My biggest disappointed so far (yes, even greater one than ink drop rate) is that for whatever reason we can not make stamina costing destro & rest staff scribing skills, but somehow we can make magicka costing stamina weapon scribing skills...

Obvious magicka bias is obvious. I thought that after hybridization this kind of balancing is past...

Erickson9610

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

My biggest disappointed so far (yes, even greater one than ink drop rate) is that for whatever reason we can not make stamina costing destro & rest staff scribing skills, but somehow we can make magicka costing stamina weapon scribing skills...

Obvious magicka bias is obvious. I thought that after hybridization this kind of balancing is past...

That is especially odd. Why can't we put Physical Damage on Elemental Explosion to make it cost Stamina? That'd actually be really cool, like an explosion of rock fragments that pierce enemies.