Oblivion Damage on Scribing Skills Cannot go Live

DerpyBossGamer

I made a pretty small comment on the scribing thread about the danger of oblivion damage in PvP but after not seeing any changes this week I think it warrants a full post discussing it.

For background, oblivion damage has been a scarce source of damage in the past due to it's power. It is available from armor sets (Sload's Semblance, Knight Slayer, and Snake in the Stars), the Occult Overload champion point, and the Decrease Health glyph. Oblivion damage ignores all mitigation (that means blocking, CP, resistance, and buffs that grant mitigation like Major/Minor Protection, Buffer of the Swift, Potentate's etc), ignores damage shields and directly damages HP, and ignores damage caps like Corrosive Armor. It is "pure damage." In the past we have seen the power of overtuned oblivion damage: six years ago with the release of Summerset, Sload's Semblance took over PvP and did serious damage to the meta, and just a few patches ago Occult Overload was dealing an unmitigatable 12k damage for being next to anything that died.

Of these sources, most are exclusive to sets that have cooldowns and in general are not exceptionally strong. Occult Overload was nerfed and is similar to it's original state before the buff, although still strong. The oblivion damage glyph is a very strong option in pvp, but has the drawback that it does not proc status effects, unlike other glyphs, and is outclassed in most situations.

All of this brings me back to scribing. Wield Soul and Soul Burst are spammable abilities dealing oblivion damage with a 3 second cooldown (consuming soul gems is a non-issue to any player who's played the game even a moderate amount of time, and I will be treating it as if their is no "cost" since it effectively does not exist). Putting this powerful source of damage on a spammable skill defeats the purpose of it being a rare and niche source of damage that can be leaned into in some cases but falls behind building "normally" in most situations. Wield Soul with the signature script Anchorite's Cruelty giving oblivion damage is so absurdly powerful that no spammable beats it on any class, and most builds do not need any skill other than it to kill any player but experienced high end PvPers.

Oblivion damage does not solve the issue of the increasing survivability of players in PvP, in fact it will worsen the issue. There will be no point to building damage, since oblivion damage scales on nothing but your opponent's health, so you can build even more survivability and sustain so that you are unkillable to any player (outside of being massively overwhelmed) without Gold Road giving them access to oblivion damage. This is not healthy for the state of PvP and worsens concerns players have expressed in the past.

Now, let me paint you a picture of where this makes Cyrodiil fully unplayable. Organized groups are already dominant in Cryodiil versus uncoordinated zergs. As all players do, these groups have the incentive to build into the most effective tactic that can possibly build into. The skill Soul Burst is able to be scribed with Anchorite's Cruelty, making it deal 8% of every enemy in the radius's health to them as oblivion damage (yes it is aoe oblivion damage). In a group of 12 players with communication between them, they could realistically all cast this skill at the same time. They do not need to build any damage, as oblivion damage does not need any offensive stats. They will use a pull like anyone normally would to start a bomb or ult dump, and then instead of casting ults, instead of timing burst, they will click Soul Burst. This is guaranteed instant death to every player in the radius. Blocking does not save you, wards do not save you, you will not have time to heal, you are simply dead. 12 players each dealing 8% of your max hp adds up to 96% of everyone in the area's health, but this oblivion damage also has execute scaling, and due to that will take only 11 instances to deal over 100% of a player's health. There is no counter to this except for doing the exact same thing quicker.

Oblivion damage has no place on a spammable ability (or even an ability at all). Anchorite's Cruelty must be reworked. At the moment, the options that make the most sense to me are:

1. Simply remove oblivion damage from the skill, make it deal magic damage scaling on your offensive stats just like any skill's tooltip once every 3 seconds and consume a soul gem.
2. Add the clause that the oblivion damage will be dealt only to monsters and not to players OR disable it in Battle Spirit environments.
3. Fully rework the script Anchorite's Cruelty into something that has a different functionality.

This will still leave Wield Soul as one of the best spammables in the game. I'm not here to argue whether that skill should or should not have access to major cowardice/defile/vitality. I'm not here to argue about how easily some other Signature Scripts can be abused, because none of that matters if oblivion damage enters PvP like this.

NyassaV

I firmly agree with this. In addition I would say that Major defile and major vitality should not be available on most scribing skills especially the spammable options. If such buffs are to be available then they should last maybe 3 seconds, like BRP Resto.

Seraphayel

Yes, let’s just remove the slightest bit of fun from a skill to make it another copy pasta of other skills. I‘d rather have them remove the spammable part and let it be an Oblivion + execute or whatever. We don’t need more spammables or 08/15 skills, we need something fresh and new and this is it. That it might be destroyed because of PvPers fearing the end result is just tragic but describes perfectly why everything in this game feels samey and therefore boring.

What’s the issue anyway? Everybody is way too tanky and there‘s too much self healing anyway. 1v1 battles take forever, I have no idea why y’all so afraid of this ability when we had the most annoying meta (where nothing really dies) for years now. A shakeup is desperately needed.

DerpyBossGamer

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yes, let’s just remove the slightest bit of fun from a skill to make it another copy pasta of other skills. I‘d rather have them remove the spammable part and let it be an Oblivion + execute or whatever. We don’t need more spammables or 08/15 skills, we need something fresh and new and this is it. That it might be destroyed because of PvPers fearing the end result is just tragic but describes perfectly why everything in this game feels samey and therefore boring.

What’s the issue anyway? Everybody is way too tanky and there‘s too much self healing anyway. 1v1 battles take forever, I have no idea why y’all so afraid of this ability when we had the most annoying meta (where nothing really dies) for years now. A shakeup is desperately needed.

It's like you didn't read a word of what I wrote, where I specifically addressed the way this harms pvp, how it can be fixed without affecting pve at all, and how I have seen from personal experience on the PTS pvping for many hours this cycle that in just two weeks of people playing with oblivion damage the build meta has shifted and worsened the "tank meta" rather than fix it.

Zenderson

On the PTS I have now seen multiple people running as 50k health tanks who are fully built into survivability + sload's and running the oblivion damage ability as a spammable. The introduction of oblivion damage as an ability only promotes the pvp tank meta.

NyassaV

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yes, let’s just remove the slightest bit of fun from a skill to make it another copy pasta of other skills. I‘d rather have them remove the spammable part and let it be an Oblivion + execute or whatever. We don’t need more spammables or 08/15 skills, we need something fresh and new and this is it. That it might be destroyed because of PvPers fearing the end result is just tragic but describes perfectly why everything in this game feels samey and therefore boring.

What’s the issue anyway? Everybody is way too tanky and there‘s too much self healing anyway. 1v1 battles take forever, I have no idea why y’all so afraid of this ability when we had the most annoying meta (where nothing really dies) for years now. A shakeup is desperately needed.

Have you ever thought someone who had about 100% defile uptime on you? Cuz I have and it sucks. It's not fun to fight against.

Aiden_Ayzaria

A solution to satisfy everyone would be to put a per target cooldown similar to what they did with Snake in the Stars. Basically it would mean a target can only be affected by an instance of Anchorite's cruelty damage from any source once every 3 seconds. It would prevent zergs and coordinated group spamming oblivion damage at you, also preventing the soul wield + soul burst combo where people can chain these oblivion damage sources with very high uptime.

StaticWave

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yes, let’s just remove the slightest bit of fun from a skill to make it another copy pasta of other skills. I‘d rather have them remove the spammable part and let it be an Oblivion + execute or whatever. We don’t need more spammables or 08/15 skills, we need something fresh and new and this is it. That it might be destroyed because of PvPers fearing the end result is just tragic but describes perfectly why everything in this game feels samey and therefore boring.

What’s the issue anyway? Everybody is way too tanky and there‘s too much self healing anyway. 1v1 battles take forever, I have no idea why y’all so afraid of this ability when we had the most annoying meta (where nothing really dies) for years now. A shakeup is desperately needed.

A shakeup like this is more detrimental to the game than the problem it was created to address.

We already had an Oblivion damage meta (Sload set) and people were not happy. Don’t let history repeat itself because you think the game isn’t fun lol. There are many ways to reduce tankiness without breaking the game, and that has been addressed many times on the forums already.

necro_the_crafter

Its a... one way to deal with current meta setups, block-healing is too op, i seen peeople in cyro recover from 3% hp while being burned with 3 jesus beams just by block-heals. But having no per target cd will definetely make ball groups even more baller. Hope the mechanic make its way into live but adjusted so it wont be abused

Seraphayel

DerpyBossGamer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yes, let’s just remove the slightest bit of fun from a skill to make it another copy pasta of other skills. I‘d rather have them remove the spammable part and let it be an Oblivion + execute or whatever. We don’t need more spammables or 08/15 skills, we need something fresh and new and this is it. That it might be destroyed because of PvPers fearing the end result is just tragic but describes perfectly why everything in this game feels samey and therefore boring.

What’s the issue anyway? Everybody is way too tanky and there‘s too much self healing anyway. 1v1 battles take forever, I have no idea why y’all so afraid of this ability when we had the most annoying meta (where nothing really dies) for years now. A shakeup is desperately needed.

It's like you didn't read a word of what I wrote, where I specifically addressed the way this harms pvp, how it can be fixed without affecting pve at all, and how I have seen from personal experience on the PTS pvping for many hours this cycle that in just two weeks of people playing with oblivion damage the build meta has shifted and worsened the "tank meta" rather than fix it.

I read exactly what you wrote, maybe you didn’t read what I wrote. I basically advocate for this skill to stay exactly as is for PvP. That Oblivion damage part is completely irrelevant for PvE, PvE is already so easy that it doesn’t need things like this at all. It’s something that’s tailormade for PvP and yet you want it changed for PvP - and I just say no to that, because it would destroy its main purpose of mainly being a PvP skill with that combination. Basically anything that shifts the meta right now is welcome.

Artim_X

Although I am an oblivion damage enjoyer 😏 I agree with the OP.

(Scalebreaker & Update 23)

Oblivion Damage has now been designed to fulfill the role of a "giant slayer" in order to help balance its purpose, where it will deal much less damage to targets who do not specialize heavily into survivability, while becoming much stronger against high health targets. We also wanted to ensure that Oblivion Damage had a role in PvE, where it could be used as a base line without over-performing other forms of damage that require heavy investment to optimize their impact. Note that Oblivion Damage will continue to bypass all forms of mitigations and bonuses, and will be unable to critically strike. 

Oblivion damage should continue to be a "giant slayer" tool and not a giant enabler...

xylena_lazarow

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Hope the mechanic make its way into live but adjusted so it wont be abused

Give it the same 7800 WD offensive stat scaling they gave to MDW.

sharquez

The heck it can't, people need to be able to die in PVP are you kidding?

Necrotech_Master

to put it into perspective, knight slayer does 8% max hp in oblivion dmg on a heavy attack, which can happen every 2.1 sec and does not cost a soul gem

so a 3 sec cooldown on an 8% oblivion dmg proc is not really OP or out of bounds with current oblivion procs

the only part thats a bit different is the scaling execute, which can do up to +100% dmg on enemies under 50%

so if an enemy is at 25% hp, they would be taking the equivalent of 12% oblivion dmg

there is still a hard cap in place, but i dont know if it would be reached in pvp even with the execute portion

not to mention there is the long term soul gem cost, yes most players probably have 1000s, but if you think about it, 1 soul gem every 3 sec (not counting rezzing allies or recharging enchantments) is going to take a toll lol

if you say did have a stacks counting 10,000 soul gems, if your using one on the skill on cooldown, that is 1 every 3 seconds

that would be 30,000 seconds worth of procs, or 500 minutes, or only 8.3 hours

if pvpers are going to seriously be using this, i could see them using upwards 5-10k soul gems per day

Jsmalls

This honestly needs more attention.

Provide a Cooldown to this script (this needs to be across both the single target and AoE spammable). I don't know how to word this but it needs to be on the character side of the system, no player should take Oblivion damage from this Script more than once every 3 seconds (I would also suggest changing this to 5 seconds because dueling with this ability the SECONDARY EFFECT was always in my top 3 damage sources).

Honestly now I'm worried because we're already at the 3 week marker and generally stuff past this point makes it into live.

I also think it's significantly worse than OP stated.

Realistically 6-8 players (built to be complete Tanks with no damage) will likely one shot anybody in the radius of the AoE damage. Because even if the AoE does 1-2k damage, by the time the first 4-5 players have cast opponents will be below the threshold and it will start scaling to 12%, 14%, and 16% oblivion damage. And really no counterplay to it, if you get pulled (even the set that's suppose to counter pulls gets countered lol) and they time it decently it's over.

And this will be possible on a 3 second cooldown...

Ball groups will only be killable by other ball groups doing the EXACT same thing because there will be no reason to not just build for complete survivability with this. Literally no damage required, It's all in one ability.

Been calling out this ability as a problem from Day 1 of the PTS.

Seraphayel

Jsmalls wrote: »

This honestly needs more attention.

Provide a Cooldown to this script (this needs to be across both the single target and AoE spammable). I don't know how to word this but it needs to be on the character side of the system, no player should take Oblivion damage from this Script more than once every 3 seconds (I would also suggest changing this to 5 seconds because dueling with this ability the SECONDARY EFFECT was always in my top 3 damage sources).

Honestly now I'm worried because we're already at the 3 week marker and generally stuff past this point makes it into live.

I also think it's significantly worse than OP stated.

Realistically 6-8 players (built to be complete Tanks with no damage) will likely one shot anybody in the radius of the AoE damage. Because even if the AoE does 1-2k damage, by the time the first 4-5 players have cast opponents will be below the threshold and it will start scaling to 12%, 14%, and 16% oblivion damage. And really no counterplay to it, if you get pulled (even the set that's suppose to counter pulls gets countered lol) and they time it decently it's over.

And this will be possible on a 3 second cooldown...

Ball groups will only be killable by other ball groups doing the EXACT same thing because there will be no reason to not just build for complete survivability with this. Literally no damage required, It's all in one ability.

Been calling out this ability as a problem from Day 1 of the PTS.

How is anything you’ve said different from what’s happening already? We have these exact same situations already in PvP just with different skills.

Jsmalls

Generally they build somewhat for damage and generally there is a longer cooldown between "bombs" because it's utilizing ultimates. As long as you rotate individuals pulling this can be done every 3 seconds (is there an internal cooldown for non CC pulls, I forget, if so every 8 seconds).

So you're used to 40k health ball groups, now you'll see 50k health ball groups with 2 tank sets, cuz why not?

They are already a huge problem but at least currently there bombs are pretty spaced out. This is literally buffing them.

Necrotech_Master

Jsmalls wrote: »

Generally they build somewhat for damage and generally there is a longer cooldown between "bombs" because it's utilizing ultimates. As long as you rotate individuals pulling this can be done every 3 seconds (is there an internal cooldown for non CC pulls, I forget, if so every 8 seconds).

So you're used to 40k health ball groups, now you'll see 50k health ball groups with 2 tank sets, cuz why not?

They are already a huge problem but at least currently there bombs are pretty spaced out. This is literally buffing them.

rush of agony is the only cc that doesnt apply cc immunity and there is no cooldown on that aside from the set cooldown itself which is 7 sec, but that cooldown is on the user of the set, not on multiple people running it

if someone gets cc immunity that is 7 sec (base) immune to all CC, there are a few things which can extend that a little bit

DerpyBossGamer

Aiden_Ayzaria wrote: »

A solution to satisfy everyone would be to put a per target cooldown similar to what they did with Snake in the Stars. Basically it would mean a target can only be affected by an instance of Anchorite's cruelty damage from any source once every 3 seconds. It would prevent zergs and coordinated group spamming oblivion damage at you, also preventing the soul wield + soul burst combo where people can chain these oblivion damage sources with very high uptime.

I think putting a per target cooldown on Anchorites Cruelty would be a great change and should absolutely happen, but that still leaves the problem of Wield Soul as a single target spammable. Against typical PvP builds the oblivion damage itself is hitting for over 7k when the execute is in play, which makes it a guaranteed kill confirm against pretty much anyone under 10k hp. Oblivion damage is always top 3 damage on CMX even when playing burst builds like magsorc where I'm hitting 8-12k frags on top of that. This oblivion damage is a far worse problem than people in this thread seem to realize.

I think basing the oblivion damage off of offensive stats and hitting 8% of max hp at some high weapon/spell damage level level like master's dw is an interesting possible change and would certainly discourage the gameplay that the oblivion damage is leaning towards right now.

Comparing this skill is Knight Slayer is entirely missing the point. Knight Slayer is a proc set that requires you to sacrifice two global skill cooldowns to get off one heavy attack for 8% of their max hp of oblivion damage. A fully charged heavy attack can be stopped with a stun, with kiting, etc. Wield Soul is a SPAMMABLE ABILITY that deals that damage in addition to having the upfront damage of a spammable and giving the enemy major defile or yourself major vitality for four seconds and in the next two seconds you are able to use any skill you need to such as a heal, a mobility skill, a crowd control skill, a burst skill, etc, and then just cast oblivion damage again. Not to mention this oblivion damage also executes so people with 5-7k hp left underneath a 15k ward die instantly. This is not comparable at all.

If oblivion damage is to be kept on the skill, it has to be reduced to a value lower than that of Knight Slayer--like 4%--and also have the execute removed. It will still be the strongest spammable in the game; the oblivion damage will still be ridiculously oppressive; it will still allow it to function as a "giant slayer" skill, but it will not make the game unplayable without running this spammable as it is on PTS at the moment.

In terrms of the damage cap, you need to be fighting a target with over 120k hp to hit the cap on the oblivion damage (60k to hit the cap with the execute at full strength).

If anyone truly doubts the magnitude of the issue, I invite you to duel me on the PTS. I will play any class of your choosing.

Jsmalls

@DerpyBossGamer

I'm doubling down on everything he stated. I'm seeing the EXACT same results. In a 5 minute fight I used 50 soul gems. 50... There's an average of a soul gem every 6 seconds. And we thought potions were a lot to upkeep... Just wait.

DerpyBossGamer

On a separate note, assuming the oblivion damage script is heavily reworked to be somewhat balanced, that necessitates the nerf of the Templar Class Mastery script which is as of right now giving me 100% uptime on 58k resistances on a build fully specced into damage. I have been able to get to resistance levels over the amount of penetration corrosive armor provides. The only reason this is a non-issue on PTS right now is because any build running Wield Soul with Anchorite's Cruelty does not care about resistances at all and melts through it.

DerpyBossGamer

Jsmalls wrote: »

@DerpyBossGamer

I'm doubling down on everything he stated. I'm seeing the EXACT same results. In a 5 minute fight I used 50 soul gems. 50... There's an average of a soul gem every 6 seconds. And we thought potions were a lot to upkeep... Just wait.

I know people who have guild banks filled with over 40 thousand soul gems. That's 67 hours of straight combat according to 1 soul gem per 6 second.

Necrotech_Master

DerpyBossGamer wrote: »

Aiden_Ayzaria wrote: »

A solution to satisfy everyone would be to put a per target cooldown similar to what they did with Snake in the Stars. Basically it would mean a target can only be affected by an instance of Anchorite's cruelty damage from any source once every 3 seconds. It would prevent zergs and coordinated group spamming oblivion damage at you, also preventing the soul wield + soul burst combo where people can chain these oblivion damage sources with very high uptime.

I think putting a per target cooldown on Anchorites Cruelty would be a great change and should absolutely happen, but that still leaves the problem of Wield Soul as a single target spammable. Against typical PvP builds the oblivion damage itself is hitting for over 7k when the execute is in play, which makes it a guaranteed kill confirm against pretty much anyone under 10k hp. Oblivion damage is always top 3 damage on CMX even when playing burst builds like magsorc where I'm hitting 8-12k frags on top of that. This oblivion damage is a far worse problem than people in this thread seem to realize.

I think basing the oblivion damage off of offensive stats and hitting 8% of max hp at some high weapon/spell damage level level like master's dw is an interesting possible change and would certainly discourage the gameplay that the oblivion damage is leaning towards right now.

Comparing this skill is Knight Slayer is entirely missing the point. Knight Slayer is a proc set that requires you to sacrifice two global skill cooldowns to get off one heavy attack for 8% of their max hp of oblivion damage. A fully charged heavy attack can be stopped with a stun, with kiting, etc. Wield Soul is a SPAMMABLE ABILITY that deals that damage in addition to having the upfront damage of a spammable and giving the enemy major defile or yourself major vitality for four seconds and in the next two seconds you are able to use any skill you need to such as a heal, a mobility skill, a crowd control skill, a burst skill, etc, and then just cast oblivion damage again. Not to mention this oblivion damage also executes so people with 5-7k hp left underneath a 15k ward die instantly. This is not comparable at all.

If oblivion damage is to be kept on the skill, it has to be reduced to a value lower than that of Knight Slayer--like 4%--and also have the execute removed. It will still be the strongest spammable in the game; the oblivion damage will still be ridiculously oppressive; it will still allow it to function as a "giant slayer" skill, but it will not make the game unplayable without running this spammable as it is on PTS at the moment.

In terrms of the damage cap, you need to be fighting a target with over 120k hp to hit the cap on the oblivion damage (60k to hit the cap with the execute at full strength).

If anyone truly doubts the magnitude of the issue, I invite you to duel me on the PTS. I will play any class of your choosing.

even being a spammable, the oblivion portion has a 3 seconds cooldown, which is longer than it takes to proc knight slayer (2.1 sec)

the 2 larger differences is that knight slayer happens at the end of the heavy attack (so there is the 2.1 sec wait), and the scribe oblivion occurs instantly (as soon as the skill connects, but still has to wait 3 full seconds before it procs again), and the execute portion, which effectively changes the 8% dmg to between 8 and 16% dmg depending on how low hp the target is

without the execute portion, it does the same dmg as knight slayer, and with the cooldown has about the same hit frequency as knight slayer

will it be easier to weave in with other skills? sure because your not channeling a heavy attack
will it be easier to get a kill with? sure because the dmg is applied instantly instead of at the end of the duration

i still think the bigger problem people are going to run into down the road though is cost of soul gems if your using 1000+ soul gems each play session, we definitely dont generate them that fast lol

sarahthes

Apropos of nothing, you can buy filled soul gems from the vendors in trial lobbys.

Necrotech_Master

sarahthes wrote: »

Apropos of nothing, you can buy filled soul gems from the vendors in trial lobbys.

which people will do when they run out of stocks

at that point it will start being a notice able gold sink if people continue eating 1000s of soul gems every day

at some point it might even be worth buying soul gems on guild stores if the cost is better

assuming the cost of the filled soul gem is like at least 150g each, 1 stack of 200 is 30,000 gold worth, and using say 2500 soul gems per day of pvp (lowball rough estimate), thats 12-13 stacks per day or 360k-390k soul gems per day if your paying the NPC vendor prices (could be more if my 150g from the npc estimate is low lol)

and this is only counting soul gems being consumed for the oblivion proc use, not rezing or recharging weapons

it wont be a problem initially, but maybe 3-6 months later that will be when the complaints about soul gem cost start lol

the people who have deep gold pockets might take longer to notice

Seraphayel

Please stop advocating for a removal of the execute mechanic. A change to the Oblivion damage, the cooldown or some combinations/conditions: okay. But for the sake of the game let there finally be a ranged execute ability that’s class-agnostic.

Easiest fix is to make the spammable and execute two different scripts you cannot use at the same time. Or simply reduce the upfront damage enough that it only becomes a spammable as an execute. But the execute + Oblivion mechanic is a great new take for this game of which we need more not less.

Sluggy

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yes, let’s just remove the slightest bit of fun from a skill to make it another copy pasta of other skills. I‘d rather have them remove the spammable part and let it be an Oblivion + execute or whatever. We don’t need more spammables or 08/15 skills, we need something fresh and new and this is it. That it might be destroyed because of PvPers fearing the end result is just tragic but describes perfectly why everything in this game feels samey and therefore boring.

What’s the issue anyway? Everybody is way too tanky and there‘s too much self healing anyway. 1v1 battles take forever, I have no idea why y’all so afraid of this ability when we had the most annoying meta (where nothing really dies) for years now. A shakeup is desperately needed.

I mirror your conclusions. But only because I've been sitting in the corner eating popcorn and watching the developers struggle to fix their game for several years now. This should add some much needed gasoline to that otherwise slow-burn fire and really get it going

NoSoup

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Apropos of nothing, you can buy filled soul gems from the vendors in trial lobbys.

which people will do when they run out of stocks

at that point it will start being a notice able gold sink if people continue eating 1000s of soul gems every day

at some point it might even be worth buying soul gems on guild stores if the cost is better

assuming the cost of the filled soul gem is like at least 150g each, 1 stack of 200 is 30,000 gold worth, and using say 2500 soul gems per day of pvp (lowball rough estimate), thats 12-13 stacks per day or 360k-390k soul gems per day if your paying the NPC vendor prices (could be more if my 150g from the npc estimate is low lol)

and this is only counting soul gems being consumed for the oblivion proc use, not rezing or recharging weapons

it wont be a problem initially, but maybe 3-6 months later that will be when the complaints about soul gem cost start lol

the people who have deep gold pockets might take longer to notice

Pretty sure a full soulgeam from a Mystic costs 500 gold. So you're looking at $100,000 for a stack of 200. It won't take long at all for Guild Trader prices to match the vender prices. Empty soul gems are 50gold but you obviouly have to fill them.

So yes, it might be abused for the first few weeks, maybe a month but then the cost will start catching up to people and the usage will drop off massively.

StihlReign

lol Empty Soul Gems - PvE 50g | PvP 156g

just...wow

MashmalloMan

NoSoup wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Apropos of nothing, you can buy filled soul gems from the vendors in trial lobbys.

which people will do when they run out of stocks

at that point it will start being a notice able gold sink if people continue eating 1000s of soul gems every day

at some point it might even be worth buying soul gems on guild stores if the cost is better

assuming the cost of the filled soul gem is like at least 150g each, 1 stack of 200 is 30,000 gold worth, and using say 2500 soul gems per day of pvp (lowball rough estimate), thats 12-13 stacks per day or 360k-390k soul gems per day if your paying the NPC vendor prices (could be more if my 150g from the npc estimate is low lol)

and this is only counting soul gems being consumed for the oblivion proc use, not rezing or recharging weapons

it wont be a problem initially, but maybe 3-6 months later that will be when the complaints about soul gem cost start lol

the people who have deep gold pockets might take longer to notice

Pretty sure a full soulgeam from a Mystic costs 500 gold. So you're looking at $100,000 for a stack of 200. It won't take long at all for Guild Trader prices to match the vender prices. Empty soul gems are 50gold but you obviouly have to fill them.

So yes, it might be abused for the first few weeks, maybe a month but then the cost will start catching up to people and the usage will drop off massively.

You're totally right. Except this passive exists for a reason, it's just never been useful until now. You don't even need to slot a soul magic ability. This passive is effective all the time.

1. Filled soul gems can never surpass the 500g guild trader cost because they can be obtained from NPC's, this means it will most likely peak at 300-400g.
2. Lazy players will purchase filled soul gems from mystics or guild traders for x7-x10 the cost.
3. Smart players will purchase and carry 100s to even 1000s of empty soul gems for 50g each, play as they normally would, then sell the excess filled gems to said lazy players. Effectively, introducing a mini crafting job.

I'm perplexed to hear people think the gem cost is even a concern when we've complained about the economy being inflated due to missing gold sinks for years. There are multiple being added this patch and I'm seeing complaints about them despite them being good steps in the right direction.

1. Grimoires
2. Scripts
3. Empty Soul Gems
4. Soul Gems
5. Guild Trader 14 day limit over 30 days

I'd suggest focusing on the topic of the oblivion damage. The soul gem cost to use these abilities is probably one of the coolest interactions they've added to the game to revitalize trivialized 10 year old content.

NoSoup

MashmalloMan wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Apropos of nothing, you can buy filled soul gems from the vendors in trial lobbys.

which people will do when they run out of stocks

at that point it will start being a notice able gold sink if people continue eating 1000s of soul gems every day

at some point it might even be worth buying soul gems on guild stores if the cost is better

assuming the cost of the filled soul gem is like at least 150g each, 1 stack of 200 is 30,000 gold worth, and using say 2500 soul gems per day of pvp (lowball rough estimate), thats 12-13 stacks per day or 360k-390k soul gems per day if your paying the NPC vendor prices (could be more if my 150g from the npc estimate is low lol)

and this is only counting soul gems being consumed for the oblivion proc use, not rezing or recharging weapons

it wont be a problem initially, but maybe 3-6 months later that will be when the complaints about soul gem cost start lol

the people who have deep gold pockets might take longer to notice

Pretty sure a full soulgeam from a Mystic costs 500 gold. So you're looking at $100,000 for a stack of 200. It won't take long at all for Guild Trader prices to match the vender prices. Empty soul gems are 50gold but you obviouly have to fill them.

So yes, it might be abused for the first few weeks, maybe a month but then the cost will start catching up to people and the usage will drop off massively.

You're totally right. Except this passive exists for a reason, it's just never been useful until now. You don't even need to slot a soul magic ability. This passive is effective all the time.

1. Filled soul gems can never surpass the 500g guild trader cost because they can be obtained from NPC's, this means it will most likely peak at 300-400g.
2. Lazy players will purchase filled soul gems from mystics or guild traders for x7-x10 the cost.
3. Smart players will purchase and carry 100s to even 1000s of empty soul gems for 50g each, play as they normally would, then sell the excess filled gems to said lazy players. Effectively, introducing a mini crafting job.

I'm perplexed to hear people think the gem cost is even a concern when we've complained about the economy being inflated due to missing gold sinks for years. There are multiple being added this patch and I'm seeing complaints about them despite them being good steps in the right direction.

1. Grimoires
2. Scripts
3. Empty Soul Gems
4. Soul Gems
5. Guild Trader 14 day limit over 30 days

I'd suggest focusing on the topic of the oblivion damage. The soul gem cost to use these abilities is probably one of the coolest interactions they've added to the game to revitalize trivialized 10 year old content.

Oh I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of soul gems. The point myself and I believe others were trying to make is that the cost of soul gems will help to balance the use of these skills. People arn't going to be going into Cyrodil spamming the skills when it's costing them 50k an hour to do so.