Vamp Scion morph preference?

KaironBlackbard

I would love to see the pick rates between Bats Scion and Perfected Scion. I see hardly any use for Perfected. Sure you get to avoid the negatives for a few seconds, but that's it, just a few seconds. The bats one however deals almost 2k dps to everything around you and heals you for the damage caused. In some cases that's over 30k healing per second, keeping you topped off at all times.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

If the Perfected truly has little pick rate, why not add a passive effect to it to where while slotted it reduces the negative effects of vampirism by one stage? Thus the cast would still have its full usefulness while at all times they would have a taste of its power.

Necrotech_Master

Bats Scion

the bats one is just objectively better

the "vamp stage 5" bonus on the other one doesnt really help much of anything since the thing only lasts 20 sec tops and you cannot gen ult while transformed, so bringing more dmg and survivability with the bats is significantly better

Abstraqt

Bats Scion

Bats is the only morph worth using, the other version is so pointless for the duration, perhaps it could extend the time, or make the time refresh when you kill or something like that.

Araneae6537

Bats Scion

I would prefer a bat swarm without the scion transformation.

Artim_X

Bats Scion

When I did mess around with it, the Bats Scion morph was always the clear winner. I absolutely hate the transformation, so I don't typically use the ultimate.

TBH I miss the old version of the ultimate especially the morph that was a gap closer. Very niche, but I had fun using it.

Vevvev

Bats Scion

Swarming Scion because it has more damage so more healing and pressure on your foes. I'm also usually Stage 4 in combat so Perfect Scion's Stage 5 doesn't really do all that much for me since I already have all my passives active.

If Perfected Scion's cost reduction was more significant I might consider it, but it's not cheap enough to warrant picking up compared to Swarming Scion's power.

(Edit) If I could go back in time though I want Clouding Swarm back. It felt so much better than both of these morphs.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

As I thought, people like Swarm over Perfected by a grand amount.
So, it (perfected) needs improvement.
Ideas:
One user said it needs a greater cost reduction.
I myself think it should have a passive effect reducing negative effects of vampirism while slotted.
If both are done, more people may use it. I myself may use it just to get that health regen back, will finally make health regen sets useful for T4 vamps at all times, instead of just 18 seconds every 5 minutes. Ok, more often than that, but it feels like a long wait time.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

14 votes is kinda low. I was hoping there'd be more by now.

Finedaible

NGL, I thought the old Bat Swarm was cooler than the Scion. I currently have no use for the ultimate.

ESO_Nightingale

Bats Scion

perfect scion should reduce the cost more than just the level up cost reduction. losing the aoe bat swarm effect sucks.

Turtle_Bot

Bats Scion

Perfect scion needs an overhaul. I messed around with it when it was first changed, but it always felt like it did nothing compared to using the swarming morph.

I'd go with a passive reduction to the downsides of being a vamp by 1 stage while slotted.
i.e.
- stage 4 only has stage 3 downsides while its slotted
- stage 3 only has stage 2 downsides while slotted, etc
Then add an additional effect while it's active, where, whenever you deal direct damage to a target, a bat attacks that same target dealing X bleed damage. Each target can only be attacked by the bat once every 2s.

This way there's a passive component for slotting it, but it also does something other than just making you stage 5 while active and becomes a more single target option over swarming which would remain more AoE focused and have built in healing on damage.

LunaFlora

Bats Scion

the ultimate is too short for the stage 5 benefits to really matter to me so i use Bats.

i wish stage 5 was something we could get without the ultimate maybe make it something you have to maintain every hour or half hour but it would be nice.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

24 votes is better, 3 to 21 perfected to swarming though, which makes it as I assumed, most people prefer swarming because they find perfected ineffective or even useless compared to swarming

Devs, please add this passive to Perfected morph to make it a little better: reduce negative effects of vampirism by one stage while slotted
It should give it a bit more attention and usefulness compared to Swarming

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

Ok, another two votes for swarming...
I was hoping to have over a thousand votes by now.
At this rate I'd settle for a hundred.

Soarora

Bats is better for actual use, perfected is better for roleplay. Don’t use the bats morph in the Bastion house… squeaks for days.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

It's like every few days it gets two more votes for swarming scion
2 more makes 28 (3-25 perf to swarm)

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

this post has had over 400 views, but only 29 votes? Why isn't everyone voting?

Erickson9610

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

this post has had over 400 views, but only 29 votes? Why isn't everyone voting?

The view counter goes up every time someone views the page — it also counts people who view the page while not logged in (and thus can't vote) and people who refresh the page or periodically check in on it. A good number of views for threads actually come from the thread's author, who checks in every now and again.

Also, some people aren't informed enough to vote, don't care to vote, or may not realize they can vote. In my case, I'd rather not vote because I don't play Vampire enough to know which option I'd vote for, and I can still see the results of the vote without voting myself by clicking on the "View Results" button, so I can observe how the poll is going without skewing the results.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

ok, checking once more after a hiatus.
34 votes. 30 Swarm, 4 Perfected.
Not as many as I was hoping for...
Still shows the grand amount who prefer Swarming over Perfected, indicating Perfected needs a buff.
How long can we keep this open?

LunaFlora

Bats Scion

you can keep the poll open forever, i don't think there's expiration dates on polls here

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

But they do close old threads every now and then. I wonder how long it takes before a thread is considered old and closed.

LunaFlora

Bats Scion

usually if it hasn't been active for about a year, not sure if the poll closes as well then though

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

ok

Yamenstein

Bats Scion

Both morphs suck and need to be looked into. So many better ultra to use neither of these give me a reason to slot it.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

Compared to Nightblade Ults, Swarming Scion is heaven.

Palumtra

Bats Scion

Perfected Sion would be great if it would reduce the penalties of passively when on our skill bar and go full negate while transformed.
Main issue with both forms is that they are expensive and need some method to be able to extend them or to reduce their costs more.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

There are various sets that do that.
Shapeshifter's Chain I believe does reduce its cost by 15%.
I think there were a couple others as well.
Imperial I think has reduced cost of all abilities.
Akaviri Dragonguard: 15% less cost of Ultimates. (5pc)
Blessing of Potentates: 15% reduced Ultimate cost. (3pc)
Telvani Efficiency: No Companion, 8% reduced cost of everything (5pc)

Skills:
Sorcerer: Deadric Summoning: Power Stone: Reduce the cost of Ultimates by 15%
Nightblade: Assassination: Soul Harvest (morph of ult): While slotted on either bar, gain 10 Ultimate whenever you kill an enemy.
Various other weaker passives related to generating ultimate.
Imperial: Red Diamond: Reduce the cost of all your abilities by 6%.

For cheapest cost, go sorc.

Sorc Imperial = ~21% reduced cost.
Shapeshifters, Dragonguard, Potentates = ~45%. Sorry, can't use Telvani with this, not enough slots.
Sorc Imperial with those 3: ~66% reduced cost. Probably less if they apply separately instead of additively.
Additively: cost = 0.34*UltCost
Separately:1*0.85*0.94*0.85*0.85*0.85 = 0.490685875 = ~0.491*UltCost
Separately Words: Base*Sorc*Imperial*Shapeshifters*Akaviri*Potentates

Base and Swarm are 335, Perfected is 320.
335:
Additive: 113.9 (114)
Separately: 164.379768125 (165)
320:
Additive: 108.8 (109)
Separately: 157.01948 (157)

This is Imperial Sorc + Shapeshifters (1/Mythic) (Neck) + Akaviri Dragonguard (5) + Blessing of Potentates (3) (no armor) (probably two weapon slots and one ring). 4 spare slots.

Palumtra

Bats Scion

Thats a rather huge investment to be able to use it more often and it doesnt worth it IMO, especially in those ultimates current state.

KaironBlackbard

Bats Scion

Swarming is OP.

So much better than any Nightblade, Weapon, or Guild Ultimate.

Necrotech_Master

Bats Scion

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Swarming is OP.

So much better than any Nightblade, Weapon, or Guild Ultimate.

i wouldnt call swarming OP, but it is the better option of the vamp ult morphs

definitely would not put it better than "any NB ult (*except consuming darkness maybe), weapon or guild ults"

its only active for 20 sec and you cant generate any ultimate for those 20 seconds, and does no dmg unless enemies are in range or your actively attacking (due to the stat bonuses), it also makes you a massive target for people (in pvp)

20 sec of 0 ult means your losing out on at least 20 ticks of 3 ult per sec (light attack bonus) which is 60 ult, so you could have used incap 2x minimum by the time the vamp ult ran out, possibly more if you were also killing targets and popped a potion (NB passive gives 20 ult on potion use, and soul harvest gives +10 ult for every enemy killed regardless of which bar this is on)