[PvP] Balance

xylena_lazarow

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Going to be interesting to watch all the fotm sorcs

The scribing skills in question are all 28m range, and guess which class best abuses ranged attacks...

Turtle_Bot

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

alongside that scribing effect that removes 1 instance of shield each time it hits

Ups - haven't found that in the Patchnotes and I don't want to go to the PTS - so you have a link for me regarding this?

Sounds a bit to much and first thoughts are [snip] and [snip] and is there the same for HoT and negate next heal and next cloak and....
So before I get mad - please give me something where I can get all the details about this...

It's one of the Focus scripts for the Trample skill. Here's a screenshot:



The stupid thing about this effect is that the equivalent effect for healing (heal absorption) caps out at just over 5k, this effect completely deletes the shield no matter how big (or small) it is, it's just gone...

Bashev

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

alongside that scribing effect that removes 1 instance of shield each time it hits

Ups - haven't found that in the Patchnotes and I don't want to go to the PTS - so you have a link for me regarding this?

Sounds a bit to much and first thoughts are [snip] and [snip] and is there the same for HoT and negate next heal and next cloak and....
So before I get mad - please give me something where I can get all the details about this...

It's one of the Focus scripts for the Trample skill. Here's a screenshot:



The stupid thing about this effect is that the equivalent effect for healing (heal absorption) caps out at just over 5k, this effect completely deletes the shield no matter how big (or small) it is, it's just gone...

But there is a cast time?

Zabagad

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

alongside that scribing effect that removes 1 instance of shield each time it hits

Ups - haven't found that in the Patchnotes and I don't want to go to the PTS - so you have a link for me regarding this?

Sounds a bit to much and first thoughts are [snip] and [snip] and is there the same for HoT and negate next heal and next cloak and....
So before I get mad - please give me something where I can get all the details about this...

It's one of the Focus scripts for the Trample skill. Here's a screenshot:



The stupid thing about this effect is that the equivalent effect for healing (heal absorption) caps out at just over 5k, this effect completely deletes the shield no matter how big (or small) it is, it's just gone...

Thanks - but is that effect tested? Or even better - did you test it?

I'm not sure with this phrase "up to" and "effect" and I have at least doubts that it would realy remove a 14K shield completly.
So I have hope until somebody tested it and said that this is realy what it does.
So maybe I should go on the PTS sooner then I thought.
But if this is realy like you said, I guess it's worth an own thread in the PTS forum anyway...

Thank again!

Edit: Ok after a first and very quick search I understand it as a skill with 2s until it happens in a 5m radius.
So this is nothing everybody will slot and use and more a special thing with 2s to counter it (leaving the area) and so I'm reassured for now...

Galeriano2

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

Zabagad

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that

That was a quick shot after 3 days only - this is after 11 days:


Edit: I was quicker quoting then your edit (thanks for the kudos)

Caecus0

Zabagad wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

NB is still the most played class in Cyro (just in case - topic is PvP) - but Sorc is closing the gap.
There are many different methods to measure that - and they all have a (slightly) different results.
The only 2 results which are in all methods the same are #1 NB and #7 Necro (pretty sure all methods have sorc now as #2)

My personal method shows for this campaign 28% NB and 22% Sorcs
(so it's not 75% as OP said - but he is right in his main point so I didn't "correct" that before)
and my method is underestimating NB pretty sure.
And btw DK is at ~15% Arc at ~ 7% and even the numbers can vary a bit and are not sig so far (for U41) - but the range is already accurate.

So that has nothing to do with hate - it's just what it is. (Sorc main here)

I play some Cyro but due to it usually being a laggy, unresponsive mess a lot of the time for me. I mostly spam instanced PvP. The numbers may be different there.

Galeriano2

Caecus0 wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

NB is still the most played class in Cyro (just in case - topic is PvP) - but Sorc is closing the gap.
There are many different methods to measure that - and they all have a (slightly) different results.
The only 2 results which are in all methods the same are #1 NB and #7 Necro (pretty sure all methods have sorc now as #2)

My personal method shows for this campaign 28% NB and 22% Sorcs
(so it's not 75% as OP said - but he is right in his main point so I didn't "correct" that before)
and my method is underestimating NB pretty sure.
And btw DK is at ~15% Arc at ~ 7% and even the numbers can vary a bit and are not sig so far (for U41) - but the range is already accurate.

So that has nothing to do with hate - it's just what it is. (Sorc main here)

I play some Cyro but due to it usually being a laggy, unresponsive mess a lot of the time for me. I mostly spam instanced PvP. The numbers may be different there.

If by instanced PvP You mean battlegrounds, than nightblades are also the most popular class there.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

StaticWave

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Going to be interesting to watch all the fotm sorcs

The scribing skills in question are all 28m range, and guess which class best abuses ranged attacks...

Inb4 Sorcs explode you with 8k Curse + 2.4k oblivion dmg that go through block. Very balanced I must say

Turtle_Bot

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

alongside that scribing effect that removes 1 instance of shield each time it hits

Ups - haven't found that in the Patchnotes and I don't want to go to the PTS - so you have a link for me regarding this?

Sounds a bit to much and first thoughts are [snip] and [snip] and is there the same for HoT and negate next heal and next cloak and....
So before I get mad - please give me something where I can get all the details about this...

It's one of the Focus scripts for the Trample skill. Here's a screenshot:



The stupid thing about this effect is that the equivalent effect for healing (heal absorption) caps out at just over 5k, this effect completely deletes the shield no matter how big (or small) it is, it's just gone...

Thanks - but is that effect tested? Or even better - did you test it?

I'm not sure with this phrase "up to" and "effect" and I have at least doubts that it would realy remove a 14K shield completly.
So I have hope until somebody tested it and said that this is realy what it does.
So maybe I should go on the PTS sooner then I thought.
But if this is realy like you said, I guess it's worth an own thread in the PTS forum anyway...

Thank again!

Edit: Ok after a first and very quick search I understand it as a skill with 2s until it happens in a 5m radius.
So this is nothing everybody will slot and use and more a special thing with 2s to counter it (leaving the area) and so I'm reassured for now...

The thing that has me concerned the most about it is that this effect actually exists in the game now. Having it in the game sets a precedence that it is an effect that can be added to other things in the future.

I agree that it being on this particular ability will keep it "somewhat balanced" for now, but what's to stop ZOS from adding it to a spammable free debuff like ele sus in the future that basically renders sorc/arc main defenses useless (NB at least has offering and a bunch of other tools to use while detected).

I guess we can at least point to this and kill off that stupid argument from NBs trying to defend cloak about "nothing removes shields" once and for all thanks to this effect being added.

Meurto

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

StaticWave

Meurto wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

Yea I knew what his stance on balance is from other threads. He masks his intentions as for the greater good of the game but he has a clear bias for Sorc. I'm a 5 year Sorc main and I know when my class is weak or overperforming.

Regardless, PvP is in a bad state right now because there's no middle ground. There's so much damage right now in the game that if you don't run Undeath, you are getting deleted with in 1-2 GCDs. But people can also absolutely build to tank and still have enough damage to be a threat. Blame ZOS for allowing power creep to reach this state. Everything else is just a result of this phenomenon.

Galeriano2

Meurto wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

Going by this logic participating in majority of forum discussion here is a waste of time because most of people "have their agenda and already made their mind up" including You based on Your comments in nb related topics.

Stridig

Bashev wrote: »

So, only NBs and Sorcs everywhere. The 2 most annoying classes with their escape tools.

If I can't slot seige while in combat, NB's should not be able to stealth while in combat.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Meurto wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

Yea I knew what his stance on balance is from other threads. He masks his intentions as for the greater good of the game but he has a clear bias for Sorc. I'm a 5 year Sorc main and I know when my class is weak or overperforming.

Regardless, PvP is in a bad state right now because there's no middle ground. There's so much damage right now in the game that if you don't run Undeath, you are getting deleted with in 1-2 GCDs. But people can also absolutely build to tank and still have enough damage to be a threat. Blame ZOS for allowing power creep to reach this state. Everything else is just a result of this phenomenon.

It's funny that every time You make an assumption about me You're missing. You did this in hardened ward thread when You tried to guess my setup and failed and You did it once again here.

I have a clear bias for sorc? ZoS had to remove my thread on my previous account where I criticised streak design and called for nerf to it. One of the reasons ban on that previous account happened was critisising ZoS for ward change. I was even criticising You for advocating interrupt immunity on hardened ward here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8041746/#Comment_8041746

In this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651272/sorcerer-changes-good-ish-but-more-is-needed/p1 that was created just hours after U41 PTS patch notes were released I was one of the first commenters overall and the first commenter to directly criticise ward change by saying this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034475/#Comment_8034475 and this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034497/#Comment_8034497 and this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034509/#Comment_8034509

And if time played on sorc suddenly gives some bragging rights than I played magsorc for 10 years and stamsorc for 9 years and really Your 5 years really doesn't strike me as anything to boast about.

You have zero idea what my intentions are because You're too much tunnel visioned into seeing things just as black and white.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

Would You want to point me excatly where I said that ward isn't broken? Like I said already You are seeing world too much as black and white and You also seem to like to add additional context to other people words.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Meurto wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

Yea I knew what his stance on balance is from other threads. He masks his intentions as for the greater good of the game but he has a clear bias for Sorc. I'm a 5 year Sorc main and I know when my class is weak or overperforming.

Regardless, PvP is in a bad state right now because there's no middle ground. There's so much damage right now in the game that if you don't run Undeath, you are getting deleted with in 1-2 GCDs. But people can also absolutely build to tank and still have enough damage to be a threat. Blame ZOS for allowing power creep to reach this state. Everything else is just a result of this phenomenon.

It's funny that every time You make an assumption about me You're missing. You did this in hardened ward thread when You tried to guess my setup and failed and You did it once again here.

I have a clear bias for sorc? ZoS had to remove my thread on my previous account where I criticised streak design and called for nerf to it. One of the reasons ban on that previous account happened was critisising ZoS for ward change. I was even criticising You for advocating interrupt immunity on hardened ward here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8041746/#Comment_8041746

In this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651272/sorcerer-changes-good-ish-but-more-is-needed/p1 that was created just hours after U41 PTS patch notes were released I was one of the first commenters overall and the first commenter to directly criticise ward change by saying this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034475/#Comment_8034475 and this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034497/#Comment_8034497 and this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034509/#Comment_8034509

And if time played on sorc suddenly gives some bragging rights than I played magsorc for 10 years and stamsorc for 9 years and really Your 5 years really doesn't strike me as anything to boast about.

You have zero idea what my intentions are because You're too much tunnel visioned into seeing things just as black and white.

I spend a lot of time dueling and the only stamsorcs I know that can straight up tank a full proc DK and Warden (which deal 5-6k DPS on average), have to run several healing sets AND weave Crystal Weapon.

You said you aren’t using Crystal Weapon or Dizzy. So the only possible assumptions are you are in a healing set, using a Shield, OR you don’t duel and kite for the majority of the fight.

Of course you can always prove me wrong with tangible evidence in the form of CMX screenshots, but that’s irrelevant.

The reason I said you’re biased is because of the fact that you are actively calling for NB nerfs, yet you are defending Ward which is agreed by many top tier sorcs on several platforms as overperforming. I have killed just as many NBs using Cloak and Sorc using Shield too, but it doesn’t mean the skill isn’t overperforming. Skill difference is a huge factor in skewing an analysis and when you remove said skill factor, a top tier NB and top tier Sorc are two of the most broken classes right now. That has always been the basis of my argument - that the skill is overperforming at the high end level for both classes. I never asked for the stealthy NB to be nerfed. I asked for the brawler NB to be nerfed, and that is also what I’m asking for Sorc.

As for your 9 yr experience. If you’re a decent player then the learning curve should have been reached within the first few years of playing the game. It makes no difference whether you and I have more years of game time. It was more so that I’ve sticked thru the ups and downs with this class and I still acknowledge when it is overperforming.

CameraBeardThePirate

Zabagad wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that

That was a quick shot after 3 days only - this is after 11 days:


Edit: I was quicker quoting then your edit (thanks for the kudos)

2% Necros ☠️☠️☠️

Guess that new Grave Lord's Sacrifice ability really got people interested in playing Necro! What a great change!

IamDestiny

I mean lets be honest ZoS does not care about PvP balance. They mostly "fixed" the lag in cyro, considering how bad it was just a few years ago. Kudos to them for that. The balance on the other hand is dictated by PvE. They should have balanced skills individually for PvP a long time ago, but they decided not to, except for heavy attacking and empower.

Then if you really want to balance PvP they have to stop mainstreaming and make the game basically play itself. Nowadays you do not even have to keep your buffs up, they do it for you. They have to buff or rework like 90% of the sets in this game, because they are either outdated or something else is just way more viable.

Nerf rallying cry, wretched and those *** gankers who barely have enough braincells to press 1 button. Why learn to play the game when you can just sit in stealth press snipe or incap and let the procs do the work for you. Give battle spirit a "if you attack from stealth you get -50% damage". Boom fixed. Suddenly people actually have to learn to play properly. Then nerf pure healers and tanks. Suddenly the game will become way more enjoyable. If they somehow after that make it harder for people to ballgroup i will give them a cookie. After that nerf sieges by 50% so people will stop hugging the walls or zerg people down with sieges because they suck.

Sporigudinai

The problem is that, adding more things to be processed in Cyro will make the lag worse.

GooGa592

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Going to be interesting to watch all the fotm sorcs

The scribing skills in question are all 28m range, and guess which class best abuses ranged attacks...

scribing is going to wreak havok on PvP balance and enjoyment, especially for those who don't buy access to the new skills.

GooGa592

Sporigudinai wrote: »

The problem is that, adding more things to be processed in Cyro will make the lag worse.

Yep. Maybe they'll reduce the pop cap yet again to compensate.

StaticWave

@Galeriano2

Here's some of people in the discords I'm in who think Ward is OP. There are many more in game.













Cancelled and Graham are magsorc mains, and React was also a sorc main. Marrochir is a bowsorc main. Isn't that like, 9 likes if they're all on the forums, lol? Like I said, just because I'm the most vocal doesn't mean there aren't others like me who want Ward to be reworked.

Caecus0

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

What?

I have heard many things about NB being a popular thing, but not a single person has ever said NBs are the easiest for new players. That is just factually incorrect. Everyone I have ever talked to in this game has said that NBs are very good, but require ALOT of skill. What you're saying is just wrong.

I can hop on literally any of the classes I have leveled and get better results than I could on a NB. I can hop on my Warden, go into the middle of a fight and literally not be in danger of dying. I can hope on my Sorc and kill players more consistently than my NB and die less often because Streak and Hardened Ward are just insane skills.

So either I am a terrible player who excels with these classes because they are just easier to play (which is what I suspect) or for some reason, those harder classes somehow click for me better than the NB does.

Zabagad

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

2% Necros ☠️☠️☠️

Guess that new Grave Lord's Sacrifice ability really got people interested in playing Necro! What a great change!

I just want to be statistically correct here - these numbers are not significant and necro could still reach > 4% (see 3-day chart) The variance for low numbers is large with this method. For Sorc and NB +- 2% is not that much - for necro it is.

So you can just see that it's not the big booster that brings necro to arc level or even higher. (Which is basically what you said, and what was obvious before)
But for anything more than that (like interest dropping or not changing), those numbers aren't significant at this point.

I just want to prevent these numbers from being taken too seriously - especially not before the end of May!

TechMaybeHic

Caecus0 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

What?

I have heard many things about NB being a popular thing, but not a single person has ever said NBs are the easiest for new players. That is just factually incorrect. Everyone I have ever talked to in this game has said that NBs are very good, but require ALOT of skill. What you're saying is just wrong.

I can hop on literally any of the classes I have leveled and get better results than I could on a NB. I can hop on my Warden, go into the middle of a fight and literally not be in danger of dying. I can hope on my Sorc and kill players more consistently than my NB and die less often because Streak and Hardened Ward are just insane skills.

So either I am a terrible player who excels with these classes because they are just easier to play (which is what I suspect) or for some reason, those harder classes somehow click for me better than the NB does.

I don't know if that first part still applies. Proc just builds passively. Resource tool now passive albeit has an active extra. Passive minor expedition both bars. Damage boost to spammable now passive. All thise previously had to be managed. Major resolve, brutality/sorcery activated passive as well. Burst heal as big, if not bigger than all other classes. They couldn't dumb it down any more other than making shadow image not require a precast.

I'd ironically argue the part NB is not easy at is effective damage at times because there's not delayed burst. Bows tooltip though, really more than makes up for it as it can hit as much as any other burst plus a delayed burst combo all by itself. It can be avoided by anticipate though

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Meurto wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS is to blame, and the players are also to blame.

The forums is full of players who are barely experienced enough in PvP. A buff like U41 Ward may seem fine and needed for them, but good players know it's broken. But see, that's why we have PTS. Players like me who mained Sorc for a long time and are decent at the class have provided feedback on U41 Ward, and feedback on how to improve Sorc without over buffing it, but our feedback are lost in the noise.

We used to have a Class Rep program to prevent that, but ZOS didn't listen to them either lol. The program was scratched because what's the point of having Class Reps providing ZOS feedback when they were gonna do their own thing anyway.

That's why this problem is two fold. We have inexperienced players with a lack of in-game testing shout over the more experienced players who've done testings. We also have developers who spin suggestions their own way instead of listening to the playerbase.

When it comes to the noise I think I wouldn't lie if I tell that the biggest noise about hardened ward was made by You and that possibly half of negative comments towards hardened ward after U41 release was made by You so if anything is being lost in noise it will be everyones else's opinion on hardened ward change due to how much noise You've made. Sorry but if You think devs will take opinion of 1 person who created hundereds of comments about certain subject as reliable source of information than You're mistaken. For devs to actually make changes based on player's feedback just within 1-2 major patch cycles, something would have to be bombarded with begative feedback like for example oakensoul was. Hardened ward is not being bombared with such negative feedback and majority of people just doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as You do.

Would you want to join several discords that house many people who agree that Ward is broken? I'm just the most vocal on the forums. Doesn't mean there aren't others like me.

Or would you want me to make a compilation of every single person who thinks Ward is broken and post it here?

You are wasting your time trying to have any discussion with this person. They have their agenda and already made their mind up so any point/counterpoint is largely ignored. Seems their account was banned as this seems to be version 2.0 with the same name.

Overall, PvP is in dire straits. I thought about resubbing, but everything just seems as bad as it has been the last couple of years. I don't really see chance that PvP will see any meaningful balance before the plug is pulled on this game.

Yea I knew what his stance on balance is from other threads. He masks his intentions as for the greater good of the game but he has a clear bias for Sorc. I'm a 5 year Sorc main and I know when my class is weak or overperforming.

Regardless, PvP is in a bad state right now because there's no middle ground. There's so much damage right now in the game that if you don't run Undeath, you are getting deleted with in 1-2 GCDs. But people can also absolutely build to tank and still have enough damage to be a threat. Blame ZOS for allowing power creep to reach this state. Everything else is just a result of this phenomenon.

It's funny that every time You make an assumption about me You're missing. You did this in hardened ward thread when You tried to guess my setup and failed and You did it once again here.

I have a clear bias for sorc? ZoS had to remove my thread on my previous account where I criticised streak design and called for nerf to it. One of the reasons ban on that previous account happened was critisising ZoS for ward change. I was even criticising You for advocating interrupt immunity on hardened ward here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8041746/#Comment_8041746

In this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651272/sorcerer-changes-good-ish-but-more-is-needed/p1 that was created just hours after U41 PTS patch notes were released I was one of the first commenters overall and the first commenter to directly criticise ward change by saying this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034475/#Comment_8034475 and this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034497/#Comment_8034497 and this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8034509/#Comment_8034509

And if time played on sorc suddenly gives some bragging rights than I played magsorc for 10 years and stamsorc for 9 years and really Your 5 years really doesn't strike me as anything to boast about.

You have zero idea what my intentions are because You're too much tunnel visioned into seeing things just as black and white.

I spend a lot of time dueling and the only stamsorcs I know that can straight up tank a full proc DK and Warden (which deal 5-6k DPS on average), have to run several healing sets AND weave Crystal Weapon.

You said you aren’t using Crystal Weapon or Dizzy. So the only possible assumptions are you are in a healing set, using a Shield, OR you don’t duel and kite for the majority of the fight.

Of course you can always prove me wrong with tangible evidence in the form of CMX screenshots, but that’s irrelevant.

The reason I said you’re biased is because of the fact that you are actively calling for NB nerfs, yet you are defending Ward which is agreed by many top tier sorcs on several platforms as overperforming. I have killed just as many NBs using Cloak and Sorc using Shield too, but it doesn’t mean the skill isn’t overperforming. Skill difference is a huge factor in skewing an analysis and when you remove said skill factor, a top tier NB and top tier Sorc are two of the most broken classes right now. That has always been the basis of my argument - that the skill is overperforming at the high end level for both classes. I never asked for the stealthy NB to be nerfed. I asked for the brawler NB to be nerfed, and that is also what I’m asking for Sorc.

As for your 9 yr experience. If you’re a decent player then the learning curve should have been reached within the first few years of playing the game. It makes no difference whether you and I have more years of game time. It was more so that I’ve sticked thru the ups and downs with this class and I still acknowledge when it is overperforming.

You can spend all the time in the world on duelling and data You collect will still be incompletye when it comes to other PvP enviroements.

Still wrong guess.

I was never defending ward. I would glady see You proving me wrong on this one. Otherwise You're just spreading misinformation. I linked You multiple comments where I openly criticised ward change. it's like when You don't uderstand what someone said You're just adding Your own context to it.

You were the one who made an argument out of time spend on sorc so You're kinda arguing with Yourself.

Galeriano2

Caecus0 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Caecus0 wrote: »

IDK where people are getting the idea that a majority of the playerbase is either Sorc or NB. I play every class (except Arcanist just by virtue that I haven't had a lot of time to level one) and the majority of classes I see are Sorcs, Arcanists and DKs. I see NBs about as often as Templars and Wardens, the latter of which is very strange because Wardens are VERY strong.

I keep seeing all the hate about NBs and sure, they can pack a punch, but they are usually very squishy. When I'm on my NB, it's difficult to do anything in an outnumbered fight if they are even remotely good. Blocking shuts down my NB hard and it is very easy to get caught out of place and just simply die. The NBs saving grace is the burst wombo combo, and if that doesn't kill their target, they're going to have a bad time. The stealth can be annoying to deal with at times, but a lot of things can break it. Everyone is running Weakness to Elements now and that breaks stealth because reasons. Basically, even uncoordinated groups will mess up a NB. My advise against people that hate NB so much are to bring Entropy from the Mage's guild (because that breaks stealth too), Weakness to Elements, or any other form of stealth detection. Combine that with a damage shield and blocking and you are all set to make any NB guaranteed to ignore you or pull their hair out.

These issues are not what I face on either my DK or Sorcerer. If my Sorcerer's burst fails, they have so much pressure damage that it doesn't even matter. Streak is also one of the best skills in the game by far, and being on the receiving end of it is the most frustrating thing to deal with when you are trying to pump damage into them. My DK can be a mixed bag at times, but I can definitely face down more than 1 opponent at a time with virtually nowhere near as many issues as my NB. I gave them Rushing Agony and it's insane how a single Stampede > Take Flight combo can completely wreck a group.

It's hard to gauge my Warden since I built them as a healer. They just plain don't die unless I have an entire group of 4 on me.

There is plenty of tools that measure class population in Cyrodill. Nb is dominating in popularity for few years straight. Few days after U41 release history of classes population was looking something like that (shoutouts to @Zabagad for making this chart)

Despite all its "weaknesses" nightblade is still the easiest to play for average players because it requires to least amount of skill to actually deal some noticable damage to someone and when his defenses work they are pretty much some of the strongest in the game. On other classes majority of nb players wouldn't be able to deal fraction of pressure they can do on nightblade.

What?

I have heard many things about NB being a popular thing, but not a single person has ever said NBs are the easiest for new players. That is just factually incorrect. Everyone I have ever talked to in this game has said that NBs are very good, but require ALOT of skill. What you're saying is just wrong.

I can hop on literally any of the classes I have leveled and get better results than I could on a NB. I can hop on my Warden, go into the middle of a fight and literally not be in danger of dying. I can hope on my Sorc and kill players more consistently than my NB and die less often because Streak and Hardened Ward are just insane skills.

So either I am a terrible player who excels with these classes because they are just easier to play (which is what I suspect) or for some reason, those harder classes somehow click for me better than the NB does.

Nightblade is a classic example of "easy to play hard to master" type of class and when many people say nightblade requires a lot of skill that's what they mean. And that "hard to master" part also started to fade away with latest buffs that nb got which removed majority of drawbacks that was making this class hard to master in the past. There is a reason nearly 30% of people plays nb. it's not like ESO is game for hardcore masochists that will pick the hardest setup possible. In anything it's completly opposite, majority of players pick a setup that is the strongest for mediocre player and currently that's a nightblade.

You can "not be in danger of dying" on basically every class atm when You build for it. Some classes reach that status more naturally through their archetypes.

There are other options explaining Your experience. For example You may try to play nb the way it's not meant to be played for You or You are just using bad setup on it. Class currently doesn't require much to be effective and is considered by many as top PvP class which is reflected in popularity numbers that are going up with each patch for few patches straight which is usually a perfect indicator of meta.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

@Galeriano2

Here's some of people in the discords I'm in who think Ward is OP. There are many more in game.













Cancelled and Graham are magsorc mains, and React was also a sorc main. Marrochir is a bowsorc main. Isn't that like, 9 likes if they're all on the forums, lol? Like I said, just because I'm the most vocal doesn't mean there aren't others like me who want Ward to be reworked.

Did You even read my comments from other threads that I linked earlier? What are You trying to prove here?