Let us get companions easier on alts!

Juju_beans

I unlocked them all on my main character.
On my alts I only unlocked one that I want to use.

I don't do everything on every character..only my main.

Necrotech_Master

Erickson9610 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Make them account wide after the first unlock via collectibles.
Then when you first summon a companion on an alt, just animate the companion portal in and act as an NPC where you need to talk to the companion and he/she will recap the intro quest through dialogue as if your alt has already done it and then completes the intro quest.
After the recap, the companion will no longer be an NPC and start behaving as normal.

The are slottable if anyone on the same server unlocked them, they are just not summonable. That would seem to make it an easy fix.

Jaimeh wrote: »

I don't even have all the companions on my main character, let alone alts Since rapport is character-based and so they need a separate unlock, a solution would be to either make the quests shorter (Bastian's initial quest is perfect in the regard for example), or have a shortcut in the quest dialogue that allows subsequent characters to skip the rest in subsequent unlocks.

You wouldn't even need the quest, since they are already slottable/choosable. Just select them and go with them. Set them up with the default Rapport on first use.

And it would not be game killing to have the rapport be across characters.

If rapport was account-wide, then players would only be able to complete the Companion's questline once per account, because the other quests are only made available with high positive rapport in stages. Making quests only available to players once per account would be an objectively worse move than Account-Wide Achievements.

i agree that rapport is fine per character, not something you really have to invest into, though i wish it would fix the companion dialog so you could choose to not grab the quest and still see the option for the companion menu

my main beef with the companion intro quests is that everything else is functionally is account wide in regards to companions (level, gear, skill slotting, outfit station outfit) it just makes it frustrating that i cant use ones ive already unlocked

Erickson9610

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Make them account wide after the first unlock via collectibles.
Then when you first summon a companion on an alt, just animate the companion portal in and act as an NPC where you need to talk to the companion and he/she will recap the intro quest through dialogue as if your alt has already done it and then completes the intro quest.
After the recap, the companion will no longer be an NPC and start behaving as normal.

The are slottable if anyone on the same server unlocked them, they are just not summonable. That would seem to make it an easy fix.

Jaimeh wrote: »

I don't even have all the companions on my main character, let alone alts Since rapport is character-based and so they need a separate unlock, a solution would be to either make the quests shorter (Bastian's initial quest is perfect in the regard for example), or have a shortcut in the quest dialogue that allows subsequent characters to skip the rest in subsequent unlocks.

You wouldn't even need the quest, since they are already slottable/choosable. Just select them and go with them. Set them up with the default Rapport on first use.

And it would not be game killing to have the rapport be across characters.

If rapport was account-wide, then players would only be able to complete the Companion's questline once per account, because the other quests are only made available with high positive rapport in stages. Making quests only available to players once per account would be an objectively worse move than Account-Wide Achievements.

Why would this be so horrible?

What do I gain rescuing Mirri's mother the 10th or more time?

Not knowing I haven't finished a dungeon on my current character (nor killed the Public Dungeon or Delve boss) is a much worse issue.

I fail to see the massive loss not doing the trite rapport quests would accomplish.

It doesn't make sense to have quests that are account-wide. Sometimes players want to be able to experience quests again without buying a new account, possibly choosing the other dialogue option in cases where you're given a choice to make (such as the response you give to Sharp when he asks you what your motivation for helping him was).

Even if Companion rapport was account-wide but still let you complete their quests, you'd have to live with either having the quest markers over each Companion's head when you've got them at maximum positive rapport, or you'd have to go through each Companion's entire questline back-to-back, even when it's implied there's been some time between each quest (such as the Companion stating they've found a lead on something or received a message from someone).

And further, some players want their Companions to treat them differently depending on which character they're on. Maybe a player wants to torment their Companion to see what sort of funny dialogue they have, but they don't want to harm their reputation with those Companions on their main character. Which rapport value would be used if account-wide rapport was implemented, anyhow?

barney2525

I don't understand the issue. I only bother with one companion, but I don't get the quest until I get to Draeloch and that's why I am there. I never have companion intro quests stacked up in my quest log.

barney2525

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Make them account wide after the first unlock via collectibles.
Then when you first summon a companion on an alt, just animate the companion portal in and act as an NPC where you need to talk to the companion and he/she will recap the intro quest through dialogue as if your alt has already done it and then completes the intro quest.
After the recap, the companion will no longer be an NPC and start behaving as normal.

The are slottable if anyone on the same server unlocked them, they are just not summonable. That would seem to make it an easy fix.

Jaimeh wrote: »

I don't even have all the companions on my main character, let alone alts Since rapport is character-based and so they need a separate unlock, a solution would be to either make the quests shorter (Bastian's initial quest is perfect in the regard for example), or have a shortcut in the quest dialogue that allows subsequent characters to skip the rest in subsequent unlocks.

You wouldn't even need the quest, since they are already slottable/choosable. Just select them and go with them. Set them up with the default Rapport on first use.

And it would not be game killing to have the rapport be across characters.

If rapport was account-wide, then players would only be able to complete the Companion's questline once per account, because the other quests are only made available with high positive rapport in stages. Making quests only available to players once per account would be an objectively worse move than Account-Wide Achievements.

Why would this be so horrible?

What do I gain rescuing Mirri's mother the 10th or more time?

Not knowing I haven't finished a dungeon on my current character (nor killed the Public Dungeon or Delve boss) is a much worse issue.

I fail to see the massive loss not doing the trite rapport quests would accomplish.

This takes us right back into the Player vs Character argument.

A Lot of Players, myself included, see the game as creating individual characters, who have their Own Stories, and therefore Achievements should All be Per Character. Why does a level 1 character have a title such as Champion of <insert choice> ?
Why do they have All Crafting achievements? All Fishing achievements, when they have never done Any of it?

on the other hand

A lot of players see the game as simply a game. The characters are actually meaningless, and it does not matter which character obtains the achievements. One does the crafting, on does the fishing, etc, and they see it as the Player accumulating the achievements.

And there Never will be a single consensus. Personally, I see it as each character creating their own story, and had no issues repeating achievements on multiple characters.

Sakiri

Dumb q, are the keepsakes account wide? Since the achievement to get them should be?

Erickson9610

Sakiri wrote: »

Dumb q, are the keepsakes account wide? Since the achievement to get them should be?

Keepsakes are account-wide, fortunately.

ADarklore

So, as someone who has max number of alts and has unlocked all companions on them, I can say much of this complaining is just that, complaining. It takes roughly 90 minutes to unlock all of them per character- perhaps even less. There is nothing FORCING players to unlock EVERY companion on EVERY character- that's a personal choice. It always amazes me when people complain about something they aren't forced to do, but somehow feel compelled to do it anyway- then complain about it. Typically, someone doesn't create 20 new characters at a time, so in reality, you only have to do the grinding when you create a new character. Then, when new companions are added, you only have to do their individual quests on each character, so we're talking 30-40 minutes max for both- to get them unlocked. That's no a big deal IMO... and is something I do each time new companions are added; then spend the next few days leveling them by grinding dungeons. It's only something I have to do once per year, so I'm very OK with it.

Second, ZOS has stated previously that companions are, first and foremost, their own person... they aren't a PET. Since every character is also a unique 'person', that each character has to unlock the companion because that's how people make friends IRL. Afterall, this is meant to be an RPG system, not a 'pet' system. This is also the reason they gave for not allowing helmets, because they are an individual... and I'm guessing they meant their FACE is their identifying aspect; if we could throw on a helm, we could no longer identify them, thus their individuality would be lost.

They massively lowered the threshold for the rapport values, so it's much easier to level now. Furthermore, you don't NEED max rapport to use them, so making rapport account wide is pointless. Besides that, why would Isobel or Bastian automatically have full rapport with a character who is a thief? So the character-based rapport leveling makes sense from an RPG perspective.

Necrotech_Master

ADarklore wrote: »

So, as someone who has max number of alts and has unlocked all companions on them, I can say much of this complaining is just that, complaining. It takes roughly 90 minutes to unlock all of them per character- perhaps even less. There is nothing FORCING players to unlock EVERY companion on EVERY character- that's a personal choice. It always amazes me when people complain about something they aren't forced to do, but somehow feel compelled to do it anyway- then complain about it. Typically, someone doesn't create 20 new characters at a time, so in reality, you only have to do the grinding when you create a new character. Then, when new companions are added, you only have to do their individual quests on each character, so we're talking 30-40 minutes max for both- to get them unlocked. That's no a big deal IMO... and is something I do each time new companions are added; then spend the next few days leveling them by grinding dungeons. It's only something I have to do once per year, so I'm very OK with it.

Second, ZOS has stated previously that companions are, first and foremost, their own person... they aren't a PET. Since every character is also a unique 'person', that each character has to unlock the companion because that's how people make friends IRL. Afterall, this is meant to be an RPG system, not a 'pet' system. This is also the reason they gave for not allowing helmets, because they are an individual... and I'm guessing they meant their FACE is their identifying aspect; if we could throw on a helm, we could no longer identify them, thus their individuality would be lost.

They massively lowered the threshold for the rapport values, so it's much easier to level now. Furthermore, you don't NEED max rapport to use them, so making rapport account wide is pointless. Besides that, why would Isobel or Bastian automatically have full rapport with a character who is a thief? So the character-based rapport leveling makes sense from an RPG perspective.

to me their logic for no helmets, or allowing the player a little bit of convenience when unlocking the companion to use on other characters for the sake of variety is extremely poor

adding a helmet does not in fact change the personality or individuality of the companion, as ive said in another thread, allowing isobel to use a helmet (because it makes less sense she does not when shes supposed to be a knight and probably melee combat), will NOT turn her from the goody two shoes she is into a axe murderer mowing down civilians. if you added a helmet on her it would not stop her from losing rapport when you blade of woe someone

on the part of unlocking the companion on each character, you said you did it on every character for every companion, 90 minutes x 20 characters is 30 hours worth of rerunning the same ridiculous quests 20 times each, and most people do not at all find that fun (i certainly dont, i hated rerunning quests doing all 10 of my characters at the time for just mirri and bastion)

would i like to use sharp and azander more? absolutely, will i run the quests more? gods no

the first time i did the quests i enjoyed the story, the other times (2-10) i did the quest it just felt ridiculous and i hated it and just wanted to get it done as fast as possible, and eventually when sharp and azander came out, i just refused to do them so i dont get to enjoy or experience the new companions much because i cant freaking use them on any of my other characters

FlopsyPrince

ADarklore wrote: »

So, as someone who has max number of alts and has unlocked all companions on them, I can say much of this complaining is just that, complaining. It takes roughly 90 minutes to unlock all of them per character- perhaps even less. There is nothing FORCING players to unlock EVERY companion on EVERY character- that's a personal choice. It always amazes me when people complain about something they aren't forced to do, but somehow feel compelled to do it anyway- then complain about it. Typically, someone doesn't create 20 new characters at a time, so in reality, you only have to do the grinding when you create a new character. Then, when new companions are added, you only have to do their individual quests on each character, so we're talking 30-40 minutes max for both- to get them unlocked. That's no a big deal IMO... and is something I do each time new companions are added; then spend the next few days leveling them by grinding dungeons. It's only something I have to do once per year, so I'm very OK with it.

Second, ZOS has stated previously that companions are, first and foremost, their own person... they aren't a PET. Since every character is also a unique 'person', that each character has to unlock the companion because that's how people make friends IRL. Afterall, this is meant to be an RPG system, not a 'pet' system. This is also the reason they gave for not allowing helmets, because they are an individual... and I'm guessing they meant their FACE is their identifying aspect; if we could throw on a helm, we could no longer identify them, thus their individuality would be lost.

They massively lowered the threshold for the rapport values, so it's much easier to level now. Furthermore, you don't NEED max rapport to use them, so making rapport account wide is pointless. Besides that, why would Isobel or Bastian automatically have full rapport with a character who is a thief? So the character-based rapport leveling makes sense from an RPG perspective.

90 minutes to unlock all of them? You must be a real speedster. Most of us are not. Even Ember, probably the easiest, is 10-15 minutes. The others get much longer, especially if you throw a public dungeon in the mix. (Also making that much more challenging for some characters.)

The points of "per character" were thrown out the window with account-wide achievements, so sorry, I don't accept that argument.

Of course, I expect some will love how it is not matter what almost any change is requested. But just because you were fine unlocking them on that many characters, all of us are not. Just provide a way to jump to the end of each chain and you would solve the problem. I would rather spend the time getting skyshards or more XP for my characters to share, or any number of other activities that still need to be done on alts.

Erickson9610

What is the purpose of unlocking every single Companion on every single character? Is it for the sake of completion? If a person wants to unlock every Companion on every character for the utility they provide, then it'd be better to have a mercenary or pet without any of the associated Companion quests or rapport.

Companions are much more than just pets who carry equipment and fire off skills — they're meant to be characters who your player character volunteers to help and journey with. To put it another way, recruiting each Companion on each character is like starting the main quest for each character — players can't just skip to the end of the main quest to unlock all of the Soul Magic skills early. Likewise, the story is important to each Companion — arguably more important than their functionality in combat.


I think the best solution is for ZOS to introduce two or three new Companions who have quicker recruitment quests than the ones we currently have. Maybe even give us the ability to buy a helmeted "mercenary" Assistant from the Crown Store who lacks the typical features of a Companion (like a questline, a keepsake, the rapport system with likes/dislikes, and so on) so that people who just care about having an NPC aid them in combat can have easy account-wide access to one without ruining the existing system for Companions.

Necrotech_Master

Erickson9610 wrote: »

What is the purpose of unlocking every single Companion on every single character? Is it for the sake of completion? If a person wants to unlock every Companion on every character for the utility they provide, then it'd be better to have a mercenary or pet without any of the associated Companion quests or rapport.

for me, i want to have variety, instead of using the same companion all the time

technically speaking you dont have to unlock the companion on every character to get the utility (you only need 1 character to max them out to get the keepsake, which then provides the bonus to all your characters regardless if they are unlocked)

i get that the companions are supposed to be their own "identities" but to me they are so shallow and so marginal at combat, i really dont see them anymore than a "combat pet" that you can configure their gear and skills (and dont eat up a skill slot)

but you can only effectively gear each companion 1 way, as you have to carry extra gear for them, and theres no armory style system to save a healer/dps/tank skill setup for them

so i really want to have access to all of them on every character for variety sake, but because of how awful the intro quests are, my newest character the arcanist only unlocked 3 (1 set up as a healer, 1 set up as tank, and 1 set up as dps) and thats all ill ever unlock on him unless they allow us to fast track the intro quests at a bare minimum

katanagirl1

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

What is the purpose of unlocking every single Companion on every single character? Is it for the sake of completion? If a person wants to unlock every Companion on every character for the utility they provide, then it'd be better to have a mercenary or pet without any of the associated Companion quests or rapport.

for me, i want to have variety, instead of using the same companion all the time

technically speaking you dont have to unlock the companion on every character to get the utility (you only need 1 character to max them out to get the keepsake, which then provides the bonus to all your characters regardless if they are unlocked)

i get that the companions are supposed to be their own "identities" but to me they are so shallow and so marginal at combat, i really dont see them anymore than a "combat pet" that you can configure their gear and skills (and dont eat up a skill slot)

but you can only effectively gear each companion 1 way, as you have to carry extra gear for them, and theres no armory style system to save a healer/dps/tank skill setup for them

so i really want to have access to all of them on every character for variety sake, but because of how awful the intro quests are, my newest character the arcanist only unlocked 3 (1 set up as a healer, 1 set up as tank, and 1 set up as dps) and thats all ill ever unlock on him unless they allow us to fast track the intro quests at a bare minimum

Also unlocking the companions on multiple toons would allow leveling them up faster. I only bother to unlock Bastian on multiple toons because he is the only one really useful for me, and thankfully his intro quest is short. I still have not fully leveled Ember and have only maxed rapport with Sharp and Azandar and not even begun to level them.

TheMajority

I have six accounts only took me less than like an hour tops to unlock all companions on a single account so just a single day of work only maybe 6-7 hours to get them all on every character on every account.

I do story mode once on my main char and thats it the rest skip dialouge and do it quick.

we don't need this change just do the work as you should a game is meant to be played not handed to you or else people will go "there's nothing to do!" power and progress is not supposed to come easy you have to work for it

so no I dont want this change if you dont want to do the effort to get a companion then do you really need the companion? i say no just do it when you are in the mood then its fun and not a chore. dont treat a game like a chore and you'll have fun.

FlopsyPrince

TheMajority wrote: »

I have six accounts only took me less than like an hour tops to unlock all companions on a single account so just a single day of work only maybe 6-7 hours to get them all on every character on every account.

I do story mode once on my main char and thats it the rest skip dialouge and do it quick.

we don't need this change just do the work as you should a game is meant to be played not handed to you or else people will go "there's nothing to do!" power and progress is not supposed to come easy you have to work for it

so no I dont want this change if you dont want to do the effort to get a companion then do you really need the companion? i say no just do it when you are in the mood then its fun and not a chore. dont treat a game like a chore and you'll have fun.

See my reply above. Many of us are not that quick. I know I spend more than an hour to get them all and even more than the 90 minutes someone else mentioned.

Great it went fast for you, but it is a completely unnecessary part. Though I guess some will argue for it anyway.

=====

As to the prior question why I unlock all of them on many characters: Because they play different roles and I want to both level them up and use them for those different roles.

I have only unlocked the Necrom ones once (on 4 servers) because their questline is longer.

Necrotech_Master

TheMajority wrote: »

I have six accounts only took me less than like an hour tops to unlock all companions on a single account so just a single day of work only maybe 6-7 hours to get them all on every character on every account.

I do story mode once on my main char and thats it the rest skip dialouge and do it quick.

we don't need this change just do the work as you should a game is meant to be played not handed to you or else people will go "there's nothing to do!" power and progress is not supposed to come easy you have to work for it

so no I dont want this change if you dont want to do the effort to get a companion then do you really need the companion? i say no just do it when you are in the mood then its fun and not a chore. dont treat a game like a chore and you'll have fun.

i could very easily do the quests, but i ask, is it fun at all to repeat the same quest up to 20 times just to be able to use a companion some of the time

rerunning the intro quests get increasingly annoying even if you do speed them as fast as possible, there is no value in it except a nonsensical RP requirement forced by the devs

when you start a new character you have to unlock all the craft skill lines, this only requires visiting the crafting table, thats it, not some arduous quest line, that becomes exponentially worse when your character has no wayshrines or ports to get near where the quests want you to go

sure mirri, bastion, and ember have fast quests, but if you have no wayshrines unlocked you have to walk or ride all the way to the POIs from the main town that has a wayshrine unlocked by default, which is time consuming on a new character that also now has no mount skills either

if your on an established lvl 50 with maxed out mounts and most shrines unlocked, yeah it doesnt take quite as much, if you have no or little mount training, no wayshrines, you can expect to add about 10 min of travel time to each of those quests + the time it takes to do the quest

TheMajority

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

I have six accounts only took me less than like an hour tops to unlock all companions on a single account so just a single day of work only maybe 6-7 hours to get them all on every character on every account.

I do story mode once on my main char and thats it the rest skip dialouge and do it quick.

we don't need this change just do the work as you should a game is meant to be played not handed to you or else people will go "there's nothing to do!" power and progress is not supposed to come easy you have to work for it

so no I dont want this change if you dont want to do the effort to get a companion then do you really need the companion? i say no just do it when you are in the mood then its fun and not a chore. dont treat a game like a chore and you'll have fun.

i could very easily do the quests, but i ask, is it fun at all to repeat the same quest up to 20 times just to be able to use a companion some of the time

rerunning the intro quests get increasingly annoying even if you do speed them as fast as possible, there is no value in it except a nonsensical RP requirement forced by the devs

when you start a new character you have to unlock all the craft skill lines, this only requires visiting the crafting table, thats it, not some arduous quest line, that becomes exponentially worse when your character has no wayshrines or ports to get near where the quests want you to go

sure mirri, bastion, and ember have fast quests, but if you have no wayshrines unlocked you have to walk or ride all the way to the POIs from the main town that has a wayshrine unlocked by default, which is time consuming on a new character that also now has no mount skills either

if your on an established lvl 50 with maxed out mounts and most shrines unlocked, yeah it doesnt take quite as much, if you have no or little mount training, no wayshrines, you can expect to add about 10 min of travel time to each of those quests + the time it takes to do the quest

The real question is do you NEED to unlock all the companions on all your alts? and the answer is : no you do not

You can wait until you feel like doing the quest you do not need to unlock the companion on all alts and it is not required to play or needed

there's plenty of solution to wayshrine travel too

games are to be actually played not constant instant gratification and "hand me the power now"

you have to work for some things in a game and thats the way it is. if you are willing to put in the work of actually playing the game then you will have what you want.

the question of Is it fun? does not enter the scenario because you are making it not fun for yourselves by thinking you HAVE TO do all of the quests all at once to unlock them immediately. Make it fun for yourself by not doing that and doing it when you want to.

Necrotech_Master

TheMajority wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

I have six accounts only took me less than like an hour tops to unlock all companions on a single account so just a single day of work only maybe 6-7 hours to get them all on every character on every account.

I do story mode once on my main char and thats it the rest skip dialouge and do it quick.

we don't need this change just do the work as you should a game is meant to be played not handed to you or else people will go "there's nothing to do!" power and progress is not supposed to come easy you have to work for it

so no I dont want this change if you dont want to do the effort to get a companion then do you really need the companion? i say no just do it when you are in the mood then its fun and not a chore. dont treat a game like a chore and you'll have fun.

i could very easily do the quests, but i ask, is it fun at all to repeat the same quest up to 20 times just to be able to use a companion some of the time

rerunning the intro quests get increasingly annoying even if you do speed them as fast as possible, there is no value in it except a nonsensical RP requirement forced by the devs

when you start a new character you have to unlock all the craft skill lines, this only requires visiting the crafting table, thats it, not some arduous quest line, that becomes exponentially worse when your character has no wayshrines or ports to get near where the quests want you to go

sure mirri, bastion, and ember have fast quests, but if you have no wayshrines unlocked you have to walk or ride all the way to the POIs from the main town that has a wayshrine unlocked by default, which is time consuming on a new character that also now has no mount skills either

if your on an established lvl 50 with maxed out mounts and most shrines unlocked, yeah it doesnt take quite as much, if you have no or little mount training, no wayshrines, you can expect to add about 10 min of travel time to each of those quests + the time it takes to do the quest

The real question is do you NEED to unlock all the companions on all your alts? and the answer is : no you do not

You can wait until you feel like doing the quest you do not need to unlock the companion on all alts and it is not required to play or needed

there's plenty of solution to wayshrine travel too

games are to be actually played not constant instant gratification and "hand me the power now"

you have to work for some things in a game and thats the way it is. if you are willing to put in the work of actually playing the game then you will have what you want.

the question of Is it fun? does not enter the scenario because you are making it not fun for yourselves by thinking you HAVE TO do all of the quests all at once to unlock them immediately. Make it fun for yourself by not doing that and doing it when you want to.

do i need to? no, of course not, but i would like to at least have the option to use any companion which i have already unlocked because its in the collections menu and thus should be account wide to begin with

most of my characters are using bastian as healer, isobel, as tank, and ember as dps, because im sick and tired of running those quests

i also know there are options to help with wayshrines, but if your running solo, you may not have someone to port to to get to a nearby wayshrine easy

if you think the companions are "hand me power" at all then you clearly dont use them, because they are mediocre at best at what they are able to do, they are not a player replacement unless you consider the player they are replacing is a brand new day 1 player of the game

repeating the same quest to be able to just use something you already unlocked is literally the definition of "busy work" that has no real meaning

i know i dont have to do the quests immediately, but realistically you shouldnt have to redo the quests at all unless you want to, there is no value in repeating those quests, no real "gains" to be had, its literally 100% certifiable busy work masquerading as RP

Erickson9610

Companions are in the Collections menu, but that doesn't mean they should be account-wide. If there was a better way to show the items usable per character (like a character-bound item in the inventory, for instance), then the Companions would likely be summoned from there instead.

But, summoning a Companion from an item in your inventory doesn't make sense, and there was already a section in the Collections menu for Assistants, so it's more reasonable to make a separate category for Companions there. Like Assistants, Companions are characters who can offer some service to the player — the difference between the two is that Companions have per-character information (such as rapport level and quest line progress), whereas Assistants are completely account-wide, with no per-character information. You also can't meet the Assistants in the world, so there's no issue of bringing them to meet themselves.

Maybe it'd be better if Companions who aren't unlocked were hidden from the Collections menu, but them being in there allows you to start their quest immediately by interacting with their icon. That's one example of a quality-of-life feature meant to make acquiring Companions easier.


Companions were never meant to be unlocked account-wide, but they're in the Collections menu for convenience of access anyway.

FlopsyPrince

You don't NEED to have good quality gear on each character either, each style option, each tool or memento either, but that is a silly question to ask.

I want to use what I have unlocked as the other replies noted. Forcing the intro quest adds no value nor fun factor. Enabling me to use what I have unlocked at least once already doesn't hand me anything and that is another silly assertion that is used to discount anything until it happens.

We won't go back to fishing per character, but putting it on everyone made more of the game enjoyable for more people. Many things are account-wide now and you need to address why this should not be if you want to argue against it.

Drinks_from_Ponds

I donate most of my paycheck after bills to the crown store, I would like to see companion items or something in there as well as achievable through the game so others have a chance to get them.

Erickson9610

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

We won't go back to fishing per character, but putting it on everyone made more of the game enjoyable for more people. Many things are account-wide now and you need to address why this should not be if you want to argue against it.

I've mentioned several times some of the challenges with making Companions unlocked account-wide. Here's a rundown of the challenges I can think of:

• If nothing else changes and Companions can just be summoned on any character as-is:
  • What happens when you bring a Companion to unlock themselves?
  • What happens when you max out a Companion's positive rapport, then go back and run through their recruitment quest after having completed the end stages of their questline?
  • How would you explain to the player all that has happened in the recruitment quest, including the important characters who show up later in the Companion's questline?
• If the recruitment quest was skipped when summoning a Companion for the first time on a character:
  • What if players accidentally summon a Companion and want to go back and do the recruitment quest, but cannot?
  • How would you recontextualize the recruitment quest when the player was supposed to have done something they never did?
  • How would you explain the important characters who you first meet in the recruitment quest and who show up later in the Companion's questline?
  • How would the Companion's later dialogue referencing the events of the recruitment quest make sense if it never happened?
• If Companion rapport was frozen, or if later Companion quests could not be accessed before completing their recruitment quest:
  • This wouldn't explain why the Companion is traveling with the player.
  • This would lock players out of the rapport system until completing the recruitment quest, which depending on who you ask may or may not be a good thing.
• If everything about Companions (including questline progress and rapport) was made account-wide:
  • Players would only be able to complete a Companion's questline once per account.
  • This wouldn't make sense, because the Companion wouldn't know every one of the player's characters as if they were the same person.
  • Players could no longer keep Companions at high positive rapport on some characters while keeping them at high negative rapport on other characters — which rapport value is made account-wide would likely be determined by the first character the player logs into when the update happens.
• If only a Companion's rapport was account-wide:
  • If you max out a Companion's positive rapport, then they'll offer all of their quests to all of your characters back-to-back, even if there's an implied time gap between quests. This also means players would have to either lower their Companion's positive rapport, accept the quest but don't finish it (which changes the Companion's dialogue in the menu), live with the quest marker above their Companion's head, or complete their Companion's entire questline to get rid of the quest markers for good.
• If Companions were just unsummoned when beginning their recruitment quest:
  • Depending on how this is implemented, this may cause players to lose access to their Companion until the quest is completed or otherwise removed from their quest journal, regardless of the player's proximity to the Companion's in-world location.
  • This solution still runs into the issue of the Companion getting to know the player via rapport before the player is technically supposed to meet them for the first time.

Amottica

I do not see an issue with the introductory quest. It does not take very long. For immersion purposes, it makes sense each character would do the quest. What is annoying is the extensive process to level up the companion.

Necrotech_Master

Erickson9610 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

We won't go back to fishing per character, but putting it on everyone made more of the game enjoyable for more people. Many things are account-wide now and you need to address why this should not be if you want to argue against it.

I've mentioned several times some of the challenges with making Companions unlocked account-wide. Here's a rundown of the challenges I can think of:

• If nothing else changes and Companions can just be summoned on any character as-is:
  • What happens when you bring a Companion to unlock themselves?
  • What happens when you max out a Companion's positive rapport, then go back and run through their recruitment quest after having completed the end stages of their questline?
  • How would you explain to the player all that has happened in the recruitment quest, including the important characters who show up later in the Companion's questline?
• If the recruitment quest was skipped when summoning a Companion for the first time on a character:
  • What if players accidentally summon a Companion and want to go back and do the recruitment quest, but cannot?
  • How would you recontextualize the recruitment quest when the player was supposed to have done something they never did?
  • How would you explain the important characters who you first meet in the recruitment quest and who show up later in the Companion's questline?
  • How would the Companion's later dialogue referencing the events of the recruitment quest make sense if it never happened?
• If Companion rapport was frozen, or if later Companion quests could not be accessed before completing their recruitment quest:
  • This wouldn't explain why the Companion is traveling with the player.
  • This would lock players out of the rapport system until completing the recruitment quest, which depending on who you ask may or may not be a good thing.
• If everything about Companions (including questline progress and rapport) was made account-wide:
  • Players would only be able to complete a Companion's questline once per account.
  • This wouldn't make sense, because the Companion wouldn't know every one of the player's characters as if they were the same person.
  • Players could no longer keep Companions at high positive rapport on some characters while keeping them at high negative rapport on other characters — which rapport value is made account-wide would likely be determined by the first character the player logs into when the update happens.
• If only a Companion's rapport was account-wide:
  • If you max out a Companion's positive rapport, then they'll offer all of their quests to all of your characters back-to-back, even if there's an implied time gap between quests. This also means players would have to either lower their Companion's positive rapport, accept the quest but don't finish it (which changes the Companion's dialogue in the menu), live with the quest marker above their Companion's head, or complete their Companion's entire questline to get rid of the quest markers for good.
• If Companions were just unsummoned when beginning their recruitment quest:
  • Depending on how this is implemented, this may cause players to lose access to their Companion until the quest is completed or otherwise removed from their quest journal, regardless of the player's proximity to the Companion's in-world location.
  • This solution still runs into the issue of the Companion getting to know the player via rapport before the player is technically supposed to meet them for the first time.

a lot of those are pure RP reasons, i could care less how the companion comes to travel to me, i unlocked the companion, now i want to be able to use the companion on more than just that 1 character, thats why i bothered to unlock it

azander and sharp are my current cases, i would like to use them, but i cant without doing their awful intro quests, so i only have them accessible and useable on 3 characters and they basically just gather dust and only partially geared

future companions i might not even bother to gear, i only unlock them on 2 toons (my main for story, and a DPS to powerlevel them) and that will be all i ever do with them, as i wont even need to use them to get the keepsakes

What happens when you bring a Companion to unlock themselves? this portion of your quote doesnt matter, at all, its irrelevant

you go up to an alikr dolmen and immediately see 20 copies of your own companion, and yet the devs dont want your companion running into themselves so they force you to do the ridiculous story quest even though literally everywhere in the overland you can have your companion running into themselves, heck without a helmet we literally have "attack of the clone companions" and yet we cant skip the intro quest because of the same reason

i dont care about rapport, if that stays per character, only need to bother with that once ever, its purely the unlock process that bothers me more than anything and any future companion will be virtually unused except for enough to get the keepsakes

Erickson9610

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

What happens when you bring a Companion to unlock themselves? this portion of your quote doesnt matter, at all, its irrelevant

you go up to an alikr dolmen and immediately see 20 copies of your own companion, and yet the devs dont want your companion running into themselves so they force you to do the ridiculous story quest even though literally everywhere in the overland you can have your companion running into themselves, heck without a helmet we literally have "attack of the clone companions" and yet we cant skip the intro quest because of the same reason

It's really not that irrelevant. The nameplate above your Companions always shows their name, while the nameplate above other players' Companions always reads <playername's Companion>, implying that they are not the same character. This issue will diminish as more Companions are introduced, and players have more variety — it was particularly bad in the Blackwood Chapter because everyone either had Mirri or Bastian, but nowadays we have 6 different choices. It would help to be able to equip helmets on our Companions, but that's a different topic altogether.

In essence, it's just a coincidence that other players have a Companion who looks like one of the Companions you've met. The reason we can't bring Companions into their own recruitment quests is because there would be two characters with the same nameplate — the same exact name — and that's an inconsistency ZOS would like to avoid.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

a lot of those are pure RP reasons, i could care less how the companion comes to travel to me, i unlocked the companion, now i want to be able to use the companion on more than just that 1 character, thats why i bothered to unlock it

ZOS cares a lot about RP reasons. They have emphasized the importance of the introductory quest in the Companions Q&A:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: why are companions account wide unlocks (collection menu) but still required to be unlocked per character?
Why are the unlock quests getting significantly longer if we are required to unlock it per character? or can we get some way to bypass them if we have already unlocked them?

PD: This ties back into potential issues of bringing Mirri to unlock Mirri, but also, we know many players establish different relationship dynamics with their companions on a per character basis and the introductory quest is a key part of that, so at this time there are no plans to change that.
On the story side, there hasn't been any mandate or push to make these quests longer. The stories we want to tell are the determining factor. This is great feedback though and something we will make sure to take into account going forward.

***

I've proposed some alternative solutions to this problem, such as a stripped-down "Assistant" version of a Companion who doesn't have any per-character relationships for players who just want a quick and easy follower for combat purposes, or ZOS introducing more Companions who are much quicker to unlock. I've also listed out several technical and thematic challenges with making Companions account-wide.

Unless there's some clever way to maintain the RP while making it easier to unlock the Companions, ZOS will likely keep existing Companions as-is.

FlopsyPrince

ZOS only cares about RP when they say they care about it and act on that.

You can take a Companion to the Coldharbour start/tutorial, so that violates your claim.

Who cares if you have the character when you run the start quest? You wouldn't have to run it again if it was account-wide. Not much loss there for almost all of us. Add a warning before using if you try to use them before running the unlock quest if vital.

The other concerns may bother some, but most of us just want to use what we have unlocked, like so many other things. Running through a quest 20+ times may not bother some of you, but it is annoying to many others. The 2 in Necrom are good examples. Their quests are not short nor that interesting to want to go through that many times.

It is amazing how much some will wish/command tedium on others for a tiny benefit otherwise. "It doesn't bother me personally so it must not be an issue for any other group of players."

valenwood_vegan

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It is amazing how much some will wish/command tedium on others for a tiny benefit otherwise. "It doesn't bother me personally so it must not be an issue for any other group of players."

I mean, doesn't this kinda cut both ways though? The game doesn't revolve around one particular user and their almost daily minor gripes and complaints. I'm sure some agree about account-wide companions, but obviously some disagree and that doesn't mean they have some nefarious motive such as "wishing tedium on others". And if public discussion of the above isn't actually desired, the complaints can be submitted directly to ZoS via the in-game bug report / feedback mechanism. Afterall, it's ZoS who decides what gets fixed or changed... not forum users.

As relates to the actual topic here, I personally find the companion system so terribly unengaging that I wouldn't mind or even notice if they made them accountwide. I've unlocked a couple on a couple characters to level them up and get their (fortunately, accountwide) perks but I don't actually use them. So I'm all for making them easier to get on alts if that's something people who do use them would want and would find beneficial. But it's also about a zero on my "things I want them to spend time fixing" scale.

FlopsyPrince

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It is amazing how much some will wish/command tedium on others for a tiny benefit otherwise. "It doesn't bother me personally so it must not be an issue for any other group of players."

I mean, doesn't this kinda cut both ways though? The game doesn't revolve around one particular user and their almost daily minor gripes and complaints. And if public discussion of the above isn't actually desired, they can be submitted directly to ZoS via the in-game bug report / feedback mechanism.

As relates to the actual topic here, I personally find the companion system so terribly unengaging that I wouldn't mind or even notice if they made them accountwide. I've unlocked a couple on a couple characters to level them up and get their (fortunately, accountwide) perks but I don't actually use them. So I'm all for making them easier to get on alts if that's something people who do use them would want and would find beneficial. But it's also about a zero on my "things I want them to spend time fixing" scale.

I don't expect much action, but more would be likely from posting here than submitting something like what you note.

Erickson9610

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Who cares if you have the character when you run the start quest? You wouldn't have to run it again if it was account-wide. Not much loss there for almost all of us. Add a warning before using if you try to use them before running the unlock quest if vital.

The other concerns may bother some, but most of us just want to use what we have unlocked, like so many other things. Running through a quest 20+ times may not bother some of you, but it is annoying to many others. The 2 in Necrom are good examples. Their quests are not short nor that interesting to want to go through that many times.

It is amazing how much some will wish/command tedium on others for a tiny benefit otherwise. "It doesn't bother me personally so it must not be an issue for any other group of players."

If there was some way to justify Companions being unlocked account-wide without breaking the established rules, then I'd be all for it. Changing the way Companions work would please one demographic of players while bothering another demographic of players.

I don't wish the process to unlock a Companion was tedious — several times, I've tried to find some compromise between how some players wish the system would work, and how the system currently works. For instance, proposing a special kind of Companion which is account-wide, so the other Companions are left alone, or introducing more Companions with minimal unlock requirements to reduce the tediousness of unlocking some of the Companions. Another improvement might let you teleport to the Companion's location upon accepting their recruitment quest from the Collections menu, to reduce the tediousness of getting to the Companion from the nearest Wayshrine in that zone on a new character.

I'm sure that even if this issue bothered me more than it currently does, I'd understand why the system works the way it does, and I'd still propose solutions that would improve the system, rather than rewrite the system. I recognize that it's an issue for other players, but how else would this system be improved to mitigate that issue without causing more issues in other places? Not all players would appreciate Companions being account-wide, and the ESO forums alone are not representative of ESO's playerbase as a whole.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS only cares about RP when they say they care about it and act on that.

You can take a Companion to the Coldharbour start/tutorial, so that violates your claim.

There is a lot that ZOS would have to do to make the stories in this game make sense when played out-of-order. ZOS has been good about having characters recognize the player character if they've met the player in a previous quest, but what about the zones where those characters were first introduced? How are those characters supposed to greet the player a second time if it's the character's first introduction to ESO? ZOS may or may not bring the character back, so recording "familiarity" voice lines unnecessarily is wasteful. Further, the base game alliance zones have questlines that follow a chronological order, but they can be accessed in any order — so you could meet characters who meet their final end, then go to a zone where they're still alive.

The point is, the base game stories are a mess when played out of order, but that would take an overwhelming amount of effort to fix. ZOS has made efforts to make the RP for newer systems and stories make sense, including Companions not being allowed to meet themselves. Just because a Companion can be taken to a place where they normally shouldn't be allowed to go — especially if it's in a base game zone — doesn't mean ZOS doesn't take the RP of the Companions system seriously. Yes, it's jarring that a Companion can follow the player into dreams and such, but ZOS could fix that by disallowing Companions to be summoned in those areas (which would take up development time, which may or may not be worthwhile, depending on who you ask). It's cheaper to have a standard going forward, than to retroactively update every other aspect of the game for consistency's sake.

I'd say ZOS has found a nice compromise between roleplay and gameplay in regards to the Companions system. It'd be tedious to have to level a Companion to Level 20 and gear them up on every character, so that part can be made account-wide without affecting the roleplay too heavily. At worst, the Companion suddenly changes their equipment at the end of their recruitment quest; players can overlook this one moment for the tradeoff of not needing to gear each Companion per character. With the Rapport system, the roleplay is paramount — this part of the Companions system suffers in gameplay (i.e., ease of use across characters), but it's important for telling the story of the Companion, which is where the roleplay aspect shines.


The balance between the gameplay and the story is important. If the Companions system was designed for just gameplay, then everything about Companions would be account-wide; there'd be no sense in having a storyline or rapport system for them, because they wouldn't work being shared account-wide. Conversely, if the Companions system was designed for just the story/roleplay, then everything (including XP) would be character-specific, in the effort of making everything make sense.

Either extreme is unfavorable, and thus a compromise or balance between the two should be made. That's why some parts of Companions are account-wide, but not every part is.

FlopsyPrince

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If there was some way to justify Companions being unlocked account-wide without breaking the established rules, then I'd be all for it. Changing the way Companions work would please one demographic of players while bothering another demographic of players.

What would that justification be? Many supporting ideas have been given in this thread.

Basically this boils down to how many things in the game are: Because it is this way. Nothing should compel it and it adds minimal value. I would gladly give up any future option to run the unlock quest again if it removed the need to run it. That would likely be an account flag, but still useful. Plenty of other content to run if desired, at least for me.