Why are you doubling down on removing the most used ability in Necro's kit?

Urvoth · February 12

IncultaWolf wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

Agree. My necro will just act as a storage space for gear at this point

Yup, my necro will be my master crafter/mule now I guess. Can't wait to abuse nightblade and sorcerer in pvp soon

Yeah I'm done with necro as well. I've stuck with it for years while it languished at the bottom of the barrel getting 0 updates while nightblade got buffed every single patch, but deleting our only good damage skill in the entire kit is the final straw. There were a million better options suggested but ZOS doesn't care about necro OR about feedback.

soulus42 · February 12

To give some benefit of the doubt, they might be still making changes and will drop them on 9.3.4

CameraBeardThePirate · February 12

soulus42 wrote: »

To give some benefit of the doubt, they might be still making changes and will drop them on 9.3.4

If that's the case, then you know what would have been nice? Communication! You know, that thing that they promised they would do more of going forward?

soulus42 · February 13

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If that's the case, then you know what would have been nice? Communication! You know, that thing that they promised they would do more of going forward?

Oh I get the frustration, it's going to feel like a slap across the face after all the threads and feedback and seeing the only thing to be changed was Blighted Blastbones now applying Diseased on hit. But there's still the potential that they will make a bigger change later on in the PTS as there's still 2 or 3 more updates to go (forget if it usually ends on .4 or .5).

OtarTheMad · February 13

soulus42 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If that's the case, then you know what would have been nice? Communication! You know, that thing that they promised they would do more of going forward?

Oh I get the frustration, it's going to feel like a slap across the face after all the threads and feedback and seeing the only thing to be changed was Blighted Blastbones now applying Diseased on hit. But there's still the potential that they will make a bigger change later on in the PTS as there's still 2 or 3 more updates to go (forget if it usually ends on .4 or .5).

I've been saying this since 2019, "maybe next one... never know."

Nope, not next one and not the one after that or any next one ever. Even if they did I feel it's too late. I'm done being slapped by ZOS with Necro.

ZOS is John Wick and Necromancers are the moron who killed his dog... I've accepted this.

OtarTheMad · February 13

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

soulus42 wrote: »

To give some benefit of the doubt, they might be still making changes and will drop them on 9.3.4

If that's the case, then you know what would have been nice? Communication! You know, that thing that they promised they would do more of going forward?

I agree with this 1000%. If ZOS has some vision for Necromancer, maybe waiting for a certain update or patch to do some big overhaul/changes like they did with Sorc, they should let us know.

"Don't worry Necromancer fans, we have some plans for them in Patch/Update XYZ"... how hard is that? It's a sentence!

StarOfElyon · February 13

I started in Summerset and I remember there being a lot of great streamers covering ESO (especially for PVP), and I watched them give feedback and tell ZOS what was killing the game for them. It broke my heart to see those players eventually just stop trying and walk away from the game. I don't understand the mentality of disregarding the players. If it's crown store prioritizing, keeping happy players will draw more players and that'll increase crown store traffic. Losing players to go after crown store sales is the best way to reverse growth.

Aldoss · February 13

It's crazy that, had they dropped today's notes along one extra sentence "Mender now grants Major Brutality/Sorcery while active", they would have curbed SO MUCH of this absolute disdain for them right now.

I think the silence from them the worst part and it's only been made worse as they keep talking about how they're "working on their communication". Words have never been more empty. They've made maybe 3 posts since that PR stunt that almost made me believe that they were actually serious about being more communicative. But old habits die hard and the past two years have been back to the same old.

"We hear your concerns about the loss of your burst morph. The devs are aware and intend to focus more on the necro toolkit in upcoming patches."

Is it really that hard to write?!

Hotdog_23 · February 13

Faulgor wrote: »

The backlash from all the players who don't know or care about the PTS and will find out on patch day that their #1 skill is gone will be something to behold.

Absolutely, it’s not like they ever post update changes on console. They could so easily add a section in the help menu for Patch notes, but no let them guess or find happy little surprises.

And yes, to the idea of Blighted Blastbones = Dynamic Cost + Stalking Damage modifier.

Stay safe

OtarTheMad · February 13

Aldoss wrote: »

It's crazy that, had they dropped today's notes along one extra sentence "Mender now grants Major Brutality/Sorcery while active", they would have curbed SO MUCH of this absolute disdain for them right now.

I think the silence from them the worst part and it's only been made worse as they keep talking about how they're "working on their communication". Words have never been more empty. They've made maybe 3 posts since that PR stunt that almost made me believe that they were actually serious about being more communicative. But old habits die hard and the past two years have been back to the same old.

"We hear your concerns about the loss of your burst morph. The devs are aware and intend to focus more on the necro toolkit in upcoming patches."

Is it really that hard to write?!

If they had put that buff on that ability, an ability that at least in my opinion is crap, I'd be even madder. Necros need more than that buff, we all have that buff right now and the class is utter garbage.

merpins · February 13

Cries in Templar

QuasiGumbo · February 13

merpins wrote: »

Cries in Templar

also cries in Templar

Estin · February 13

soulus42 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If that's the case, then you know what would have been nice? Communication! You know, that thing that they promised they would do more of going forward?

Oh I get the frustration, it's going to feel like a slap across the face after all the threads and feedback and seeing the only thing to be changed was Blighted Blastbones now applying Diseased on hit. But there's still the potential that they will make a bigger change later on in the PTS as there's still 2 or 3 more updates to go (forget if it usually ends on .4 or .5).

No, what we see here is what we'll get on Live. It's cope to think they're going to make a change next week or the week after. They had 2 weeks worth of feedback to address the issues people brought up, and all they did was make blighted always proc diseased for a measly ~7% damage increase. If they didn't make any changes, there could've been some hope, but they're clearly not going to implement any of the feedback after they implemented their own "buff" to blighted. They're not going to suddenly put sacrificial bones onto blighted next week or give it the stalking modifier with split cost after such a random change for this week. They have their own plans, and it doesn't involve the player's feedback.

Turtle_Bot · February 13

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

soulus42 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If that's the case, then you know what would have been nice? Communication! You know, that thing that they promised they would do more of going forward?

Oh I get the frustration, it's going to feel like a slap across the face after all the threads and feedback and seeing the only thing to be changed was Blighted Blastbones now applying Diseased on hit. But there's still the potential that they will make a bigger change later on in the PTS as there's still 2 or 3 more updates to go (forget if it usually ends on .4 or .5).

No, what we see here is what we'll get on Live. It's cope to think they're going to make a change next week or the week after. They had 2 weeks worth of feedback to address the issues people brought up, and all they did was make blighted always proc diseased for a measly ~7% damage increase. If they didn't make any changes, there could've been some hope, but they're clearly not going to implement any of the feedback after they implemented their own "buff" to blighted. They're not going to suddenly put sacrificial bones onto blighted next week or give it the stalking modifier with split cost after such a random change for this week. They have their own plans, and it doesn't involve the player's feedback.

Their past few patches have had a few substantial changes in week 4 (with only minor changes week 3), so this could be part of their new release cadence thing (or whatever it was called) that started last year.

We'll know for certain next week though. If there is nothing in next weeks notes, then there will definitely be nothing this PTS cycle.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration (no-pet sorc main here) and definitely agree that communication could be a lot better, but just wanted to note something that I've noticed has been happening with the bigger changes in the PTS cycle for a few patches now, so next week is likely the final deadline for any big changes to be released and that will likely be what we see going live.

VixxVexx · February 13

I don't think they are doubling down. They just haven't read a single PTS post.

ApoAlaia · February 13

VixxVexx wrote: »

I don't think they are doubling down. They just haven't read a single PTS post.

Based on previous experience chances are this, or something extremely similar with minor tweaks, will go live.

I remember arguing pain points before (templar jabs and burning light changes or the 'gutting' of tri-focus just to mention a couple) until I run out of voice, didn't make any difference. Still made it live, still present today.

By their own admission they are struggling to come up with ideas for new sets, maybe they are planning to tweak existing sets (or create new ones) down the line that interact meaningfully with this change, who knows.

Aelorin · February 13

I recently came back and mained a necro DPS. We all know how this is going to work out:

Accept, adapt, move on.

Currently getting my Arcanist to max lvl and enjoy that ride while it last.

soulus42 · February 13

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

No, what we see here is what we'll get on Live. It's cope to think they're going to make a change next week or the week after. They had 2 weeks worth of feedback to address the issues people brought up, and all they did was make blighted always proc diseased for a measly ~7% damage increase. If they didn't make any changes, there could've been some hope, but they're clearly not going to implement any of the feedback after they implemented their own "buff" to blighted. They're not going to suddenly put sacrificial bones onto blighted next week or give it the stalking modifier with split cost after such a random change for this week. They have their own plans, and it doesn't involve the player's feedback.

It's not particularly cope, I just recall combat changes primarily happening on Week 2 and Week 4 rather than Week 1 or Week 3, sometimes some changes happening when going live but that's not as frequent as far as I'm aware. Personally, yes, I think Sacrificial Bones is going to stay but there's still the potential for them to make some tweaks to make things more palatable. Granted there's no guarantee but given when changes usually happen in PTS, I'm fine with waiting to see what we end up with.

lunaslide · February 14

soulus42 wrote: »

To give some benefit of the doubt, they might be still making changes and will drop them on 9.3.4

They've demonstrated patch after patch after patch that they don't deserve it. You give someone the benefit of the doubt when they've consistently treated you right, not after they've spit on what you love countless times.

Grim_Overlord · February 14

Its just so sad to watch the class that was most requested to be added to the game basically since launch, or One Tamriel at least, be repeatedly ground into the dirt for no apparent reason. I understand offering an alternative to Blastbones. I don't understand why even the most basic cry for hybridizing the cost on it to preserve Magcro at least one more patch before scribing takes away its only group value in EC away. Honestly, that set is a better necromancer than the class itself given how its been dragging Necromancer into organized groups even after Major Vuln became widely accessible through sets. Their damage just isn't there and hasn't been since their first nerf in Elsweyr without a needlessly complex rotation that crumbled in content or high ping. I love my Necromancer, and ZOS loves making Necro-themed sets and fashion and crown store items. Yet, even though it was the most requested class, they have been nerfed repeatedly to the point that they have worse bar-space economy than Sorcerers, with the only real skill choices being spammable and back-bar arena set.

Yes Colossus got its cost reduced and Skulls got boosted to 50% and Death Knell was returned to its higher values after being severely nerfed, but all that did was make a few class skills compete with their generic counterparts, not an actual visible buff to the class's kit beyond keeping Major Vuln uptimes on Colo from being absolutely outclassed by a single tank in Turning Tide.

brandsnipe · February 14

Grim_Overlord wrote: »

Its just so sad to watch the class that was most requested to be added to the game basically since launch, or One Tamriel at least, be repeatedly ground into the dirt for no apparent reason. I understand offering an alternative to Blastbones. I don't understand why even the most basic cry for hybridizing the cost on it to preserve Magcro at least one more patch before scribing takes away its only group value in EC away. Honestly, that set is a better necromancer than the class itself given how its been dragging Necromancer into organized groups even after Major Vuln became widely accessible through sets. Their damage just isn't there and hasn't been since their first nerf in Elsweyr without a needlessly complex rotation that crumbled in content or high ping. I love my Necromancer, and ZOS loves making Necro-themed sets and fashion and crown store items. Yet, even though it was the most requested class, they have been nerfed repeatedly to the point that they have worse bar-space economy than Sorcerers, with the only real skill choices being spammable and back-bar arena set.

Yes Colossus got its cost reduced and Skulls got boosted to 50% and Death Knell was returned to its higher values after being severely nerfed, but all that did was make a few class skills compete with their generic counterparts, not an actual visible buff to the class's kit beyond keeping Major Vuln uptimes on Colo from being absolutely outclassed by a single tank in Turning Tide.

The worst part is, there are tons and tons of ideas to make necro viable for both pve and pvp. Its ridiculous that a paid class is this bad.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 15

As another user stated "Sacrificial Bones" feels like a dead skill, it provides a buff less powerful then simply getting Major Sorcery/Major Brutality and that is it, even if it granted Major Sorcery and Major Brutality it would still be too weak, generating a corpse should at least be part of the base skill and If they are not going to revert the changes then the Morph should at least heal you when the Skeleton jumps at you.

IncultaWolf · February 15

Grim_Overlord wrote: »

Its just so sad to watch the class that was most requested to be added to the game basically since launch, or One Tamriel at least, be repeatedly ground into the dirt for no apparent reason. I understand offering an alternative to Blastbones. I don't understand why even the most basic cry for hybridizing the cost on it to preserve Magcro at least one more patch before scribing takes away its only group value in EC away. Honestly, that set is a better necromancer than the class itself given how its been dragging Necromancer into organized groups even after Major Vuln became widely accessible through sets. Their damage just isn't there and hasn't been since their first nerf in Elsweyr without a needlessly complex rotation that crumbled in content or high ping. I love my Necromancer, and ZOS loves making Necro-themed sets and fashion and crown store items. Yet, even though it was the most requested class, they have been nerfed repeatedly to the point that they have worse bar-space economy than Sorcerers, with the only real skill choices being spammable and back-bar arena set.

Yes Colossus got its cost reduced and Skulls got boosted to 50% and Death Knell was returned to its higher values after being severely nerfed, but all that did was make a few class skills compete with their generic counterparts, not an actual visible buff to the class's kit beyond keeping Major Vuln uptimes on Colo from being absolutely outclassed by a single tank in Turning Tide.

As I've said before, it's really pathetic that necromancer is only viable and relevant in organized trial comps because of a single DLC dungeon proc set.

OtarTheMad · February 15

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As another user stated "Sacrificial Bones" feels like a dead skill, it provides a buff less powerful then simply getting Major Sorcery/Major Brutality and that is it, even if it granted Major Sorcery and Major Brutality it would still be too weak, generating a corpse should at least be part of the base skill and If they are not going to revert the changes then the Morph should at least heal you when the Skeleton jumps at you.

And thats the thing, even with Major Sorc/Brut necro just needs more.

I, very angrily, applaud ZOS for at least trying to do something but Sacrificial Bones is a miss. I mean 20% damage increase to Grave Lord abilities? What Grave Lord damage abilities? LoL. Maybe in PvE sure, I can load up my bar even with the issues I have with tether and Boneyard… but PvP? Nope. In PvP Magcro’s are really just Elementalist and bad ones. Worse now that we lost our burst ability and a source of burning.

TmanFoody · February 16

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Grim_Overlord wrote: »

Its just so sad to watch the class that was most requested to be added to the game basically since launch, or One Tamriel at least, be repeatedly ground into the dirt for no apparent reason. I understand offering an alternative to Blastbones. I don't understand why even the most basic cry for hybridizing the cost on it to preserve Magcro at least one more patch before scribing takes away its only group value in EC away. Honestly, that set is a better necromancer than the class itself given how its been dragging Necromancer into organized groups even after Major Vuln became widely accessible through sets. Their damage just isn't there and hasn't been since their first nerf in Elsweyr without a needlessly complex rotation that crumbled in content or high ping. I love my Necromancer, and ZOS loves making Necro-themed sets and fashion and crown store items. Yet, even though it was the most requested class, they have been nerfed repeatedly to the point that they have worse bar-space economy than Sorcerers, with the only real skill choices being spammable and back-bar arena set.

Yes Colossus got its cost reduced and Skulls got boosted to 50% and Death Knell was returned to its higher values after being severely nerfed, but all that did was make a few class skills compete with their generic counterparts, not an actual visible buff to the class's kit beyond keeping Major Vuln uptimes on Colo from being absolutely outclassed by a single tank in Turning Tide.

As I've said before, it's really pathetic that necromancer is only viable and relevant in organized trial comps because of a single DLC dungeon proc set.

A set that might be outsourced to a better dps when spell crafting comes out.

Grim_Overlord · February 16

TmanFoody wrote: »

As I've said before, it's really pathetic that necromancer is only viable and relevant in organized trial comps because of a single DLC dungeon proc set.

A set that might be outsourced to a better dps when spell crafting comes out. [/quote]

My expectation is that Sorcs or Wardens will become the new EC bearers in trials, armed with a Flame staff each on back bar and, in Sorc's case at least, a Minor Force granting Frost dot. For Warden they will likely keep trap, but their bar space is slightly more forgiving than Sorc's at the moment. Slightly.

C_Inside · February 19

With the latest PTS patch available it's interesting to see that they're now nerfing the new Grave Lord's Sacrifice from a very weak alternative to Stalking Blastbones into a super weak alternative. Only 15% damage increase down from 20% and you now have to use it every 10 seconds. So a dead cast twice as frequently as before. But hey Flame Skull can create a corpse at the target's feet... every 3 casts... Something Stalking Blastbones already did on every cast.

Good job ZOS, thank you for nerfing necro even more.

"We’re aware that the ability likely still hasn’t hit its perfect mark just yet..." - Then why didn't you revert the morph back to the original Stalking Blastbones and continue developing Grave Lord's Sacrifice, and potentially re-introducing it in the next PTS cycle when you feel that it has actually hit its mark?

"but we’re hopeful that it’s still an improvement for a large amount of players who were previously put off by how demanding the class was." - You know what players that are put off from a class usually do? They switch to a different class. Much like what many necro mains will do come next patch if they don't quit the game outright.

StarOfElyon · February 19

So it's a nerf then. The next quarter of a year is going to suck for my Necromancer. F this.

Shagreth · February 19

I am sorry you lost the morph, personally I always play stamina and I would NEVER touch my necro again if they removed my precious Green Skelly, I even have a poison themed outfit for it. @ZOS_Kevin This honestly sucks for the people that like the blue and the way it worked. Honestly, I hope you can add these morphs back through scribing in the future, or maybe finally a third morph. If scribing later doesn't include Class Skills - then it's going to suck.

Tinkerhorn · February 19

My main problem is that in its current form Blighted is an ill replacement in PvP for Stalking.
It was stated that there was a desire to preserve the existing playstyle but this hurts that playstyle even further and Necro is difficult to play but was still manageable for people like myself whose builds revolved around Stalking and we greatly enjoyed the playstyle.
Further sustain is already a huge issue with the mag variant let alone now stam, and with the awkward rotation if you mess it up then cc will be the end of the fight. On top of that the reduction in damage with the loss of flame and the multiplier just might have crossed a threshold of being threatening in any sense.
Unfortunately it seems that people like myself who enjoy their necro's how they are and stuck it through with them, and just wished for some fine tuning don't appear to be much on the radar in this update. It's unfortunate that the focus is pretty much entirely on Sacrificial Blastbones. I have 0 interest in the new sacrificial skill and am just hoping for some preservation of my existing builds. I suppose it just means maining a new class - even though I don't want to.