Why are you doubling down on removing the most used ability in Necro's kit?

CameraBeardThePirate · February 12

The Stalking modifier is the only thing that keeps Necro competitive in PvP. Tons and tons of feedback was given this PTS cycle on the necro changes, and instead of listening, you doubled down.

The diseased proc is not going to be enough to offset that. I'm flabbergasted that you took the only skill nearly every necromancer used, and completely removed it from the game, despite so many players expressing their disapproval.

Sacrifice still deletes ranged corpse gen too - no fix for that either?

This is still a huge nerf to Necros in both PvE and PvP. If nothing else, either give Blighted the old Stalking modifier or allow it to keep the base buff from Sacrificial Bones.

xDeusEJRx · February 12

Necromancer and Templar are buff bot classes now and forever

StarOfElyon · February 12

It's over Necro-bros. GG.

brandsnipe · February 12

Agree. My necro will just act as a storage space for gear at this point

Estin · February 12

They're not capable of taking any feedback because the players are wrong.

Hottytotz · February 12

If was not apparent before it should now be clear that your feedback does not and never has mattered.

Remiem · February 12

They couldn't even be arsed to give Blighted a dynamic cost...
Whatever, I'll check back in a couple months with Gold Road and if nothing is done again (or worse, if ZOS have another great idea like the new Stalking BB) I'll just move on from ESO.

Tinkerhorn · February 12

It's a shame, was very much hoping they'd dump blighted for stalking or just give the modifier which would have been an alright 2nd best.
I either completely reform my necro plus playstyle and mourn the one I enjoyed, or simply forsake the necro altogether which to be honest is the only real sensible answer for PvP. That's my favourite class redundant and heaven knows it was an effort trying to keep it going. Not pleased.

Pepegrillos · February 12

How fun some spells are to use and the identity of a class are aspects of combat that are not captured by spreadsheets. Spreadsheet-based balance is what we have seen in the past few years.

IncultaWolf · February 12

brandsnipe wrote: »

Agree. My necro will just act as a storage space for gear at this point

Yup, my necro will be my master crafter/mule now I guess. Can't wait to abuse nightblade and sorcerer in pvp soon

xDeusEJRx · February 12

Zos gave me a reason to buy a name change and re-name my Mag Necro to "Craftomancer"

brandsnipe · February 12

Remiem wrote: »

They couldn't even be arsed to give Blighted a dynamic cost...
Whatever, I'll check back in a couple months with Gold Road and if nothing is done again (or worse, if ZOS have another great idea like the new Stalking BB) I'll just move on from ESO.

Agree, i'm just gonna get on for daily rewards and thats it. Gonna cut off my ESO+ and look for another game, maybe ashes of creation?

MashmalloMan · February 12

I like the idea of Sacrificial Bones and what they're trying to accomplish by offering another playstyle for Necro's, but it feels like it's missing a lot, like this skill is suppose to be bundled with a list of other changes coming with the chapter or something like that..

At bare minimum, Blighted should be a combination of Stalking + Blighted to keep that identity alive until the rest of the kit gets reworked. How they think guaranteed diseased proc fixes any of the issues raised is beyond my understanding.

Blighted Blastbones - Dynamic cost based on highest resource + stalking damage multiplier.
Sacrificial Bones - Add a small dot centered on the caster like Blade Cloak or spawn a 2nd BB that jumps to the caster at 10s. Let those 2 BB's deal damage when they explode on the caster. The skill feels like a dead cast with no damage and no corpses, imagine casting a skill for Major Brutality and getting nothing else with it.
Skeletion Mage - Add Major Brutality/Sorcery or Major Savagery/Prophecy.
Skeleton Archer - Convert into a short duration(6s-10s), single target dot summon, damage multiplies each second. Basically a summon version of Vat Destro. Reintroduces corpse gen and pressure for Sacrificial Bones users with less management in comparison to a BB rotation. For BB users, it adds a bit more complexity, but much better pay off with introducing a strong dot their missing.
Skeleton Arcanist - Spawn 2 instead of 1. Maybe reduce their damage slightly to compensate.
Flame Skull - Increase projectile speed and add Venom Skull's "every necro cast adds a stack" effect to the base skill. Venom Skull could get a new bonus to sweeten the deal, Ricochet Skull could stay the same as the aoe option. Ricochet Skull just feels terrible without this effect because you need to cast 2 crappy versions, before a decent 1.

This would allow 4 levels of play instead of 2, with varying complexity. At the top you have the lowest skill floor, but highest skill ceiling. At the bottom, you have the highest skill floor, but lowest skill ceiling. There is an option for every player.

BB + Archer = 3s delayed burst + 6s high pressure dot = hardest to manage, but best burst/dps potential.
BB + Arcanist = 20s buff/dot + 3s delayed burst = original playstyle for those that don't want change.
Sacrifical Bones + Archer = 20s buff/dot + 6s high pressure dot = less management than the above 2 options, but still a bit of a combo in there, it's just based on relying on dots instead of burst from BB.
Sacrifical Bones + Arcanist = 20s buff/dot + 20s buff/dot = this is the least management possible, a fully dot focused build, decent dps for pve, but without a combo they don't have high kill potential for pvp.

This also allows players to have unique necro playstyles based on preference instead of every single necro, stam, or mag, being functionally identical. Kinda like how a Sorc can run pets or not, there is a lot of options there and things in between.

Estin · February 12

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I like the idea of Sacrificial Bones and what they're trying to accomplish by offering another playstyle for Necro's, but it feels like it's missing a lot, like this skill is suppose to be bundled with a list of other changes coming with the chapter or something like that..

At bare minimum, Blighted should be a combination of Stalking + Blighted to keep that identity alive until the rest of the kit gets reworked. How they think guaranteed diseased proc fixes any of the issues raised is beyond my understanding.
Blighted Blastbones - Dynamic cost based on highest resource + stalking damage multiplier.

Sacrificial Bones - Add a small dot centered on the caster like Blade Cloak or spawn a 2nd BB that jumps to the caster at 10s. Let those 2 BB's deal damage when they explode on the caster. The skill feels like a dead cast with no damage and no corpses, imagine casting a skill for Major Brutality and getting nothing else with it.

Skeletion Mage - Add Major Brutality/Sorcery or Major Savagery/Prophecy.

Skeleton Archer - Convert into a short duration(6s-10s), single target dot summon, damage multiplies each second. Basically a summon version of Vat Destro. Reintroduces corpse gen and pressure for Sacrificial Bones users with less management in comparison to a BB rotation. For BB users, it adds a bit more complexity, but much better pay off with introducing a strong dot their missing.

Skeleton Arcanist - Spawn 2 instead of 1. Maybe reduce their damage slightly to compensate.

Flame Skull - Increase projectile speed and add Venom Skull's "every necro cast adds a stack" effect to the base skill. Venom Skull could get a new bonus to sweeten the deal, Ricochet Skull could stay the same as the aoe option.

This would allow 4 levels of play instead of 2, with varying complexity. At the top you have the lowest skill floor, but highest skill ceiling. At the bottom, you have the highest skill floor, but lowest skill ceiling. There is an option for every player.
BB + Archer = 3s delayed burst + 6s high pressure dot = hardest to manage, but best burst/dps potential.

BB + Arcanist = 20s buff/dot + 3s delayed burst = original playstyle for those that don't want change.

Sacrifical Bones + Archer = 20s buff/dot + 6s high pressure dot = less management than the above 2 options, but still a bit of a combo in there, it's just based on relying on dots instead of burst from BB.

Sacrifical Bones + Arcanist = 20s buff/dot + 20s buff/dot = this is the least management possible, a fully dot focused build, decent dps for pve, but without a combo they don't have high kill potential for pvp.

This also allows players to have unique necro playstyles based on preference instead of every single necro, stam, or mag, being functionally identical. Kinda like how a Sorc can run pets or not, there is a lot of options there and things in between.

It's a waste of time to give good ideas. The developers don't have the capacity to read or think.

MashmalloMan · February 12

Gotta try. Either way, they could ignore everything else I said and just do:

Blighted Blastbones = Dynamic Cost + Stalking Damage modifier.

Fixed. Then Sacrificial Bones can be the morph everyone ignores for 3 years before they do something decent with it.

Deimus · February 12

I've only played casually some events (gotta get my anniversary cake) and ESO+ weekends since 2022. Blackwood was the last chapter I bought and Greymoor was the last one I was excited for. I've been playing more since I heard about Scribing and I'm excited for the direction of the game for the first time in years.

The ability to alter skills to shore up the weak points in my kit and customize their appearance to closer match my head-cannon had me hyped for my vamp magcro. I was anticipating this to be the year I reactive my ESO+, buy the new chapter, and play more consistently again, but if they're going to ignore all the feedback from their player base and bulldoze through I'm keeping the status quo.

lunaslide · February 12

brandsnipe wrote: »

Agree. My necro will just act as a storage space for gear at this point

I already started mothballing both of mine as mules from week one. No matter what feedback was given, they weren't going to rethink the change.

Estin · February 12

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Gotta try. Either way, they could ignore everything else I said and just do:

Blighted Blastbones = Dynamic Cost + Stalking Damage modifier.

Fixed. Then Sacrificial Bones can be the morph everyone ignores for 3 years before they do something decent with it.

That suggestion was given on Day 1 of PTS. We're now on Day 15 and their manatee pen only managed to select the diseased on blighted blastbones idea ball and drop it into necro combine

brandsnipe · February 12

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Fixed. Then Sacrificial Bones can be the morph everyone ignores for 3 years before they do something decent with it.

Lmao

OtarTheMad · February 12

ZOS is just slapping necromancers in the face at this point.

Funny thing is I read what others and myself are asking for, just as a minimum, and it’s not even remotely hard. Old stalking multiplier on Blighted and a sticky dot.

necro_the_crafter · February 12

you dont understand guys, new blastbones feels better on a lightning staff heavy-attack build

necro_the_crafter · February 12

Id like them to change blighted too, so I have the option to run blue one or green one for my 20% dot buff

lunaslide · February 12

It takes some real chutzpah to put out the first week patch notes and then put Necromancer on sale in the crown store. Well done.

OtarTheMad · February 12

JerBearESO · February 12

The diseased effect applies its damage, yes? So that is about a 10% damage buff. But it's still not good enough. Why?

Because it's only 10%, with no potential to ramp up to 50%, and it still does not take into account the loss of flame damage vs vampire in PvP.

It still needs more....

Also VERY disappointed the grave Lord's Sacrifice wasn't moved to another skill.... 😞

Alaztor91 · February 12

-No dynamic resource cost for Blighted Blastbones.
-No Stalking BB modifier added to it to compensate for being the inferior morph option.
-Grave Lord’s Sacrifice lower corpse generation not fixed.
-Grave Lord’s Sacrifice lack of ranged corpse generation not fixed.

You are basically removing the ability to use Siphons/Tethers(28m skills) from range if you slot Grave Lord’s Sacrifice.
You are basically removing the ability to activate the Corpse consume bonus from Boneyard and Life amid Death(28m skills) from range if you slot Grave Lord’s Sacrifice.
You can't sustain Blighted Blastbones on a Magicka build.

You said ''we’re also trying to ensure there’s a way to continue playing the way many Necromancers have become accustomed to'' but if I pick Blighted Blastbones I can't sustain the cost since I play a Magicka build and if I pick Grave Lord’s Sacrifice I'm forced into a melee build.

Why do you ignore all the feedback that could turn Grave Lord’s Sacrifice into a good skill? Why do you ignore all the feedback that could allow Blighted Blastbones to remain a valid alternative? Can we get some changes from a dev who actually plays the class?

IncultaWolf · February 12

Alaztor91 wrote: »

-No dynamic resource cost for Blighted Blastbones.
-No Stalking BB modifier added to it to compensate for being the inferior morph option.
-Grave Lord’s Sacrifice lower corpse generation not fixed.
-Grave Lord’s Sacrifice lack of ranged corpse generation not fixed.

You are basically removing the ability to use Siphons/Tethers(28m skills) from range if you slot Grave Lord’s Sacrifice.
You are basically removing the ability to activate the Corpse consume bonus from Boneyard and Life amid Death(28m skills) from range if you slot Grave Lord’s Sacrifice.
You can't sustain Blighted Blastbones on a Magicka build.

You said ''we’re also trying to ensure there’s a way to continue playing the way many Necromancers have become accustomed to'' but if I pick Blighted Blastbones I can't sustain the cost since I play a Magicka build and if I pick Grave Lord’s Sacrifice I'm forced into a melee build.

Why do you ignore all the feedback that could turn Grave Lord’s Sacrifice into a good skill? Why do you ignore all the feedback that could allow Blighted Blastbones to remain a valid alternative? Can we get some changes from a dev who actually plays the class?

Bold of you to assume ANYONE on the combat team plays necromancer.

Faulgor · February 12

The backlash from all the players who don't know or care about the PTS and will find out on patch day that their #1 skill is gone will be something to behold.

IncultaWolf · February 12

Faulgor wrote: »

The backlash from all the players who don't know or care about the PTS and will find out on patch day that their #1 skill is gone will be something to behold.

Oh yeah it will be, I remember when update 35 hit live, and all the templars in game were like "what the hell is wrong with my jabs?"

MashmalloMan · February 12

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

The backlash from all the players who don't know or care about the PTS and will find out on patch day that their #1 skill is gone will be something to behold.

Oh yeah it will be, I remember when update 35 hit live, and all the templars in game were like "what the hell is wrong with my jabs?"

Oh that's hilarious, too bad I quit that patch. I can't imagine how fun it would have been for everyone to also look at their timers to realize their recasting their 20-30s dots 10-15s too early.

Estin · February 12

Faulgor wrote: »

The backlash from all the players who don't know or care about the PTS and will find out on patch day that their #1 skill is gone will be something to behold.

Live shot of the ZOS office when the patch goes live