Am I missing something, or is Cyrodiil just boring?

SmellyUnlimited · February 10

I’ve really tried to get into PvP. I enjoy Battlegrounds and Imp City, mostly because they’re dynamic. But when I go into Cyro, it seems like a great amount of time is spent simply traveling back and forth in what looks to be the most boring environmental template in the game. The sheer amount of hours Cyro can suck from one’s life is greater than any other activity in the game. Your group meets a bigger Zerg, they take your castle, then you regroup and take one of their’s where they have no forces. Or vice versa. I don’t know why ZoS would bother doing anything with Cyro when the niche players that play there will continue to do so regardless of whether they change the experience or not. If Cyrodiil is the gold standard of what ESO can offer for PvP, then that’s a sad commentary on the state of the game.

xylena_lazarow · February 10

Half the fun is the zone chat.

Callidus · February 10

Okay, sounds good.

SeaGtGruff · February 10

Cyrodiil can be a lot of fun in different ways, and riding around on your mount can be pleasurable if you're just chilling and doing PvE quests there. But Cyrodiil can also be extremely frustrating.

In my opinion, there are very good reasons why some players have made Cyrodiil their ESO end game and prefer to spend most if not all of their time there. But it certainly isn't for everyone.

Rohamad_Ali · February 10

The gold standard lol. That is rich.

RetPing · February 10

Cyro was created with a lot more players in mind, before the max population reduction there were lot more things happening at the same time.
Now with little max population and big map nothing semes to be happening most of the time.

This is totally dev doing, thay have taken away resources from Cyro to give them to PvE things like companions.

The funny thing is that they have recently done a increase population test but in pure ZOS styles we know nothing about it.
Must be another example of their "improved communication". That thing has been promised several times but never delivered.

IV_Deity · February 11

It would be more fun if they increased population caps. The queues for pvp are extremely long, and you spend a while standing around waiting for fights to happen.

It used to be a lot more engaging.

SmellyUnlimited · February 11

I do recall group sizes being much larger. I would love to see some dynamic changes to Cyrodil, like adding weather effects, roving bands of marauders on horseback, day/night cycles, and certain buffing based on who has the least resources and population on (the “hardened soldier” buff).

reazea · February 11

Cyrodiil is not boring. It's just grossly neglected by ZOS. Pop caps are clear down around 60/faction now, when they were 600/faction in 2014. Yes, ZOS has reduced the Cyrodiil pop cap to literally 1/10th of what it was originally. That's how bad the situation and support is for Cyrodiil. And group size used to be double what it is now.

All we get is silence when we ask what's going on with all this neglect of the PvP community.

Delphinia · February 12

IV_Deity wrote: »

It would be more fun if they increased population caps. The queues for pvp are extremely long, and you spend a while standing around waiting for fights to happen.

It used to be a lot more engaging.

I agree, but perhaps to a degree. Without some mechanism in place to regulate population imbalances, (which is doubtful because we haven’t seen it yet), the blob faction will still paint the map their own color and instead of being run over by 50 blobblings, I’ll be then run over by twice that. Although, I suppose it wouldn’t matter much. It might serve to make things even more entertaining and comical to watch 100s of the other factions climbing out of their clown cars. The never ending line of x faction clamoring to pvdoor does offer up some amusing vid moments.

An oldie, but a goodie and still very much applies...

CrazyKitty · February 12

Delphinia wrote: »

IV_Deity wrote: »

It would be more fun if they increased population caps. The queues for pvp are extremely long, and you spend a while standing around waiting for fights to happen.

It used to be a lot more engaging.

I agree, but perhaps to a degree. Without some mechanism in place to regulate population imbalances, (which is doubtful because we haven’t seen it yet), the blob faction will still paint the map their own color and instead of being run over by 50 blobblings, I’ll be then run over by twice that. Although, I suppose it wouldn’t matter much. It might serve to make things even more entertaining and comical to watch 100s of the other factions climbing out of their clown cars. The never ending line of x faction clamoring to pvdoor does offer up some amusing vid moments.

An oldie, but a goodie and still very much applies...

I remember what it was like with pop caps of well over 200/faction. Cyrodiil was WAY, WAY more fun then. More groups, more coordination needed, and just way more epic and fun. The unbelievably low pop cap in Cyrodiil right now is really ruining the whole experience.

Delphinia · February 13

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

IV_Deity wrote: »

It would be more fun if they increased population caps. The queues for pvp are extremely long, and you spend a while standing around waiting for fights to happen.

It used to be a lot more engaging.

I agree, but perhaps to a degree. Without some mechanism in place to regulate population imbalances, (which is doubtful because we haven’t seen it yet), the blob faction will still paint the map their own color and instead of being run over by 50 blobblings, I’ll be then run over by twice that. Although, I suppose it wouldn’t matter much. It might serve to make things even more entertaining and comical to watch 100s of the other factions climbing out of their clown cars. The never ending line of x faction clamoring to pvdoor does offer up some amusing vid moments.

An oldie, but a goodie and still very much applies...

I remember what it was like with pop caps of well over 200/faction. Cyrodiil was WAY, WAY more fun then. More groups, more coordination needed, and just way more epic and fun. The unbelievably low pop cap in Cyrodiil right now is really ruining the whole experience.

I remember it too; been playing since beta and I've seen the changes over the years. My point really is that it does not matter to me what they do with regard to increasing it. They can raise it up to 500 and it still won't. The population will still ebb and flow in favor of certain factions at different times of day/night. Raising it will allow more people a chance to log into Cyro, so that is a good thing I suppose. However, for those who are still lower pop, it won't mean anything to them but just more zergy behavior by the more populated faction. Maybe that's also a good thing since they might have more AP opportunities.

React · February 13

I mean, it was incredibly fun when the faction population caps were 100+ more per faction than they are now. The caps have been reduced so drastically over the years that we've reached a point where there is only enough population to support one, maybe two mid size - large engagements at a time. The map is simply too large for such little action.

Additionally, nothing has really changed. They added a couple outposts that are in very poor locations which change nothing, they added destructible milegates and bridges which only caused additional performance issues, and they added the hammer which caused MASSIVE performance issues. No significant new rewards, no expansion of the ranking system or new cosmetic rewards for high ranks, no new mechanics, and no new content. It's gotten very stale over the years, and it shows in both the population and how it is received by newcomers.

Really hoping they deliver a new zone or a massive revamp to cyro or IC with their "Q4 PVP System" this year, but with their track record the chances of that seem slim to none.

Delphinia · February 13

React wrote: »

I mean, it was incredibly fun when the faction population caps were 100+ more per faction than they are now. The caps have been reduced so drastically over the years that we've reached a point where there is only enough population to support one, maybe two mid size - large engagements at a time. The map is simply too large for such little action.

Additionally, nothing has really changed. They added a couple outposts that are in very poor locations which change nothing, they added destructible milegates and bridges which only caused additional performance issues, and they added the hammer which caused MASSIVE performance issues. No significant new rewards, no expansion of the ranking system or new cosmetic rewards for high ranks, no new mechanics, and no new content. It's gotten very stale over the years, and it shows in both the population and how it is received by newcomers.

Really hoping they deliver a new zone or a massive revamp to cyro or IC with their "Q4 PVP System" this year, but with their track record the chances of that seem slim to none.

Agreed. I've been hoping for years that they would increase the ranks and offer rewards beyond G.O.

JustLovely · February 13

React wrote: »

I mean, it was incredibly fun when the faction population caps were 100+ more per faction than they are now. The caps have been reduced so drastically over the years that we've reached a point where there is only enough population to support one, maybe two mid size - large engagements at a time. The map is simply too large for such little action.

Additionally, nothing has really changed. They added a couple outposts that are in very poor locations which change nothing, they added destructible milegates and bridges which only caused additional performance issues, and they added the hammer which caused MASSIVE performance issues. No significant new rewards, no expansion of the ranking system or new cosmetic rewards for high ranks, no new mechanics, and no new content. It's gotten very stale over the years, and it shows in both the population and how it is received by newcomers.

Really hoping they deliver a new zone or a massive revamp to cyro or IC with their "Q4 PVP System" this year, but with their track record the chances of that seem slim to none.

So much this ^

majulook · February 23

While Mayhem has only been for 2 days so far its real empty PC NA No-CP in the afternoons EST. Every other Mayhem event it was busy and fun. So far this one is not fun.

Faulgor · February 25

React wrote: »

I mean, it was incredibly fun when the faction population caps were 100+ more per faction than they are now. The caps have been reduced so drastically over the years that we've reached a point where there is only enough population to support one, maybe two mid size - large engagements at a time. The map is simply too large for such little action.

Additionally, nothing has really changed. They added a couple outposts that are in very poor locations which change nothing, they added destructible milegates and bridges which only caused additional performance issues, and they added the hammer which caused MASSIVE performance issues. No significant new rewards, no expansion of the ranking system or new cosmetic rewards for high ranks, no new mechanics, and no new content. It's gotten very stale over the years, and it shows in both the population and how it is received by newcomers.

Really hoping they deliver a new zone or a massive revamp to cyro or IC with their "Q4 PVP System" this year, but with their track record the chances of that seem slim to none.

Sadly I think they already said the Q4 PVP update will have nothing to do with Cyrodiil. Can't imagine what it's gonna be tbh, maybe a ranking system for duels lol.

Dojohoda · February 25

It was fun with the larger population.
It was fun before AOE pull sets.
It was fun with destructible resource towers.

There's more, but that is my personal top three.

RetPing · February 25

It was fun before ESO combat team introduced sets that don't follow estabilished game mechanics..
Not breaking those rules is game design 101 .

ProudMary · February 26

RetPing wrote: »

It was fun before ESO combat team introduced sets that don't follow estabilished game mechanics..
Not breaking those rules is game design 101 .

Sets with a free pull/stack effect never should have been allowed in the game. Any effect that moves another player on the map should be a skill that costs resources and a slot on your skill bar. Auto purge could also fit into this category as well, but the auto purge is not nearly as game changing.

Dax_Draconis · February 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Half the fun is the zone chat.

Last time I was there the only fighting that seemed to be happening was in zone chat.

tinythinker · February 28

Sounds like I haven't missed much, which is a shame

Hmm.

React wrote: »

I mean, it was incredibly fun when the faction population caps were 100+ more per faction than they are now. The caps have been reduced so drastically over the years that we've reached a point where there is only enough population to support one, maybe two mid size - large engagements at a time. The map is simply too large for such little action.

I don't recall - did the performance tests really shed any light on ways to get around the lag with larger caps?

React wrote: »

Additionally, nothing has really changed. They added a couple outposts that are in very poor locations which change nothing, they added destructible milegates and bridges which only caused additional performance issues, and they added the hammer which caused MASSIVE performance issues.

Yeah I don't get the outposts. I can see adding things, but they don't seem like they are part any game loop flow? Maybe I just don't see it?

React wrote: »

No significant new rewards, no expansion of the ranking system or new cosmetic rewards for high ranks, no new mechanics, and no new content. It's gotten very stale over the years, and it shows in both the population and how it is received by newcomers.

Maybe they could bring back the torchbugs...

But yeah, why only titles and dyes. Some unique outfits, skins, tattoos, mounts, etc., would be nice.

React wrote: »

Really hoping they deliver a new zone or a massive revamp to cyro or IC with their "Q4 PVP System" this year, but with their track record the chances of that seem slim to none.

Delphinia wrote: »

Agreed. I've been hoping for years that they would increase the ranks and offer rewards beyond G.O.

Would higher ranks be the answer? Seriously asking, as the number of ranks is already really high. Would some other secondary/complimentary progression system work as an objective?

doabhi · March 6

I think the pop cap was reduced because the servers simply can't handle the amount of events triggered by the games ever growing list of sets and status effects. ZOS is hell bent on keeping the status quo with PVP instead of simplifying it and making a separate gear system they keep trying to balance both PVE and PVP with the same gear sets which honestly doesn't work out well for either in the end.

Take Oakensoul as a fine example of 'Oops' planning, It was intended as a mythic item to lower the bar for people with physical disabilities or other limiting factors that barred them from taking part in harder content. It succeded at this quite well at the start, but then it hit PVP and boy did the complaining get loud. Now it's not as useful as it once was on either side of those gates.

If PVP Had its own set trees that were exclusive to each class/role etc that you earned using AP and unlock with your alliance ranks, while taking part in PVP, The servers wouldn't be trying to solve the meaning of the universe every time someone light attacks you from the keep wall, There wouldn't be ridiculous set cheese that ruin the balance from sets clearly meant for specific PVE content and PVP would be overall more rewarding and competitive I think.

Desiato · March 6

ProudMary wrote: »

Sets with a free pull/stack effect never should have been allowed in the game. Any effect that moves another player on the map should be a skill that costs resources and a slot on your skill bar. Auto purge could also fit into this category as well, but the auto purge is not nearly as game changing.

Pull sets drive me insane, especially as a frontline melee fighter who fights in proximity of alliance teammates, but isn't stacked with them.

I also dislike auto-purge sets. In general, I hate any set that plays the game for the player. But these are particularly bad as they negate entire build strategies with no effort from the player wearing them. Plus they are part of the trend among experienced players to run stalemate builds instead of builds capable of actually killing other players solo.

My single biggest wish is that we had devs that actively communicated with the PVP community so we could at least understand their motivations and engage in discussion at that level. But the reality is that ESO is primarily a Sims-style RPG with a microtransaction business model, so they can insulate themselves from the complaints of all other customers.

geonsocal · March 10

I have fun...

as long as game performance is stable, I have a lot of fun...

it's open world, at you pace, fight the way you like, fight where you like action...

it helps to be familiar with the product itself...know the map, what to expect at different hours/days...

know how to fight your toon in all sorts of different situations...

that's the part I like best - being able to build a toon that can stay alive, fight with others and win in all kinds of pvp situations...

Quackery · March 10

It's boring because of ball groups infesting the campaign and making it more miserable than ever. Also, it's boring because they keep lowering the cap, [snip]

[edited for bashing]

JustLovely · March 10

It's not boring. It's just the most neglected and disregarded portion of ESO, and it's getting worse over time.

Durham · March 19

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I’ve really tried to get into PvP. I enjoy Battlegrounds and Imp City, mostly because they’re dynamic. But when I go into Cyro, it seems like a great amount of time is spent simply traveling back and forth in what looks to be the most boring environmental template in the game. The sheer amount of hours Cyro can suck from one’s life is greater than any other activity in the game. Your group meets a bigger Zerg, they take your castle, then you regroup and take one of their’s where they have no forces. Or vice versa. I don’t know why ZoS would bother doing anything with Cyro when the niche players that play there will continue to do so regardless of whether they change the experience or not. If Cyrodiil is the gold standard of what ESO can offer for PvP, then that’s a sad commentary on the state of the game.

Have you tried PVP with a small group of friends? We are a small group of friends that have played for years. Cyrodil is by far the best part of the game. If you do not socialize and just join a pug in zone chat. Then yes it is boring.

Half the fun of PVP is trying to find out what works for you. Experiment in dueling and finding sets that work for the way that you want to play. I prefer small man PVP groups of 2-6 each in chat. This is where it's at. Small man group > Ball group> Zone pug play> Keep defending

Rowjoh · March 22

Depends which server and campaign you play on.

NA main campaign is dynamic and campaign competitive.

EU main campaign has no campaign competition and is dead for large parts of the night and day as AD strangle the life out of it.

Delphinia · March 22

Agreed with @Rowjoh that it really depends on the server, campaign and especially the timeframe.

Currently on PC/NA GH, EP typically takes the entire map from about 1:30am est - 8:30am est, sometimes longer. They take all scrolls, emp, and then keep both DC and AD gated for about 7 hours straight. This has been going on for the last few campaigns. I guess they really want the pvdoor points? So, yes, it can be a little on the boring side when it's a dead map and you can't get your tri keeps back (even though they already took all four scrolls hours ago). One would think this would be boring for them as well, but it continues campaign after campaign, so I guess they find enough to keep them happy.

I suppose I don't blame them though. They should be able to play what faction they want and when they want. And the other two factions have to sleep or work. So, we cannot all be on at the same time of course. After all, it is a 24/7 map. However, it would be nice if there could be a bit more of a balance in population. Since it is a faction locked server, players cannot switch to a lower populated side to help. Some players used to do this years ago.

I can log in at different hours, but I do feel sorry for those AD and DC who only have these hours to play. It's usually one bar vs three or pop locked and any progress is overturned so quickly that it barely makes any impact on the map. But, I guess there's always other campaigns and other games....

Desiato · March 22

Delphinia wrote: »

Currently on PC/NA GH, EP typically takes the entire map from about 1:30am est - 8:30am est, sometimes longer. They take all scrolls, emp, and then keep both DC and AD gated for about 7 hours straight.

I have observed this from the EP pov on a stream (briefly, it wasn't entertaining) and they're so chumsy and happy about it too. Literally proud.