PC/NA Gray Host has a player that is multiboxxing and/or sabotaging his own faction

Delphinia · February 2

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zvsfr82/articles/ztmq7yc#zxkwqfr

No need for insults. No one ever said they could not play during those hours. However, that does not mean that there is a balance and this is on PC/NA when a majority of those players are sleeping. The point still stands that any ad and dc that were on during that time just prior, were most likely trying to create a bit of a buffer for themselves before that particular timeframe when ep ran the map.

DizzyMac · February 2

Delphinia wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zvsfr82/articles/ztmq7yc#zxkwqfr

No need for insults. No one ever said they could not play during those hours. However, that does not mean that there is a balance and this is on PC/NA when a majority of those players are sleeping. The point still stands that any ad and dc that were on during that time just prior, were most likely trying to create a bit of a buffer for themselves before that particular timeframe when ep ran the map.

Actually you would be surprised just how many messages they get telling them to get off NA server and to stop playing ESO, from AD and DC players.

Some well known AD & DC guild leaders even messaged them and told them the only way double teaming against EP would stop is if the guilds in that time frame disbanded and split their player base evenly between DC and AD (yes there are screenshots of those conversations in a discord i am in)

CrazyKitty · February 2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

Not sure what's "pathetic" about double teaming the 1st place faction to prevent them from snowballing a massive lead and killing the entire campaign for everyone. That's just how you play multifaction PvP games.

...providing the faction being double teamed is in fact in first place, not last. The double teaming last campaign was against the last place faction.

CrazyKitty · February 2

Delphinia wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zvsfr82/articles/ztmq7yc#zxkwqfr

No need for insults. No one ever said they could not play during those hours. However, that does not mean that there is a balance and this is on PC/NA when a majority of those players are sleeping. The point still stands that any ad and dc that were on during that time just prior, were most likely trying to create a bit of a buffer for themselves before that particular timeframe when ep ran the map.

Your argument also justifies hardcore "nightcapping" to remain competitive in the campaign. What we need to see is more sportsmanship and less justification for the kind of play that takes the fun out of the game for everyone.

I've tried speaking to the person spearheading the overzealous nightcapping effort, but anyone who's ever tried that knows how that conversation went.

xylena_lazarow · February 2

CrazyKitty wrote: »

...providing the faction being double teamed is in fact in first place, not last. The double teaming last campaign was against the last place faction.

It's disingenuous to say that EP was in "last place" given their potential to explode for 2000+ points and retake the lead on any given NA night. There's more to threat assessment than the immediate score.

CrazyKitty · February 2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

...providing the faction being double teamed is in fact in first place, not last. The double teaming last campaign was against the last place faction.

It's disingenuous to say that EP was in "last place" given their potential to explode for 2000+ points and retake the lead on any given NA night. There's more to threat assessment than the immediate score.

When DC fields the most players in Cyrodiil over any other faction, as determined by how early and how late DC remains poplocked longer than any other faction, it's disingenuous to claim a faction other than DC has the most potential to explode the score. This, along with detente with AD, is why DC won the last camp.

xylena_lazarow · February 2

Back to the original topic, that same player is doing it again right now.

Asmelia · February 2

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom any update on that topic or we are talking in the cloud????We ask for clarification

Delphinia · February 2

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zvsfr82/articles/ztmq7yc#zxkwqfr

No need for insults. No one ever said they could not play during those hours. However, that does not mean that there is a balance and this is on PC/NA when a majority of those players are sleeping. The point still stands that any ad and dc that were on during that time just prior, were most likely trying to create a bit of a buffer for themselves before that particular timeframe when ep ran the map.

Your argument also justifies hardcore "nightcapping" to remain competitive in the campaign. What we need to see is more sportsmanship and less justification for the kind of play that takes the fun out of the game for everyone.

I've tried speaking to the person spearheading the overzealous nightcapping effort, but anyone who's ever tried that knows how that conversation went.

I'm sorry, I may not have been clear enough. You misread/misunderstood. I do not "justify" "hardcore nightcapping" by any faction. The term "nightcapping" is a little divisive though, so I do not usually like to use that term. But, since it has been used already, I will follow suit.

I've always said that this game should promote healthy competition and good sportsmanship. However, the way it is designed, if you've played for any length of time, you've seen, that this is not the case. It is a 24/7 battlefield. People will play when they can and when they want.
Because this is on the NA server, the "nightcapping" would be from the perspective of the NA players.

One would think a majority of those players are in fact, sleeping during the hours in question. Therefore, that is when "nightcapping" takes place.

In addition, for over a campaign and a half, the "nightcapping" (from NA perspective), was not from AD or DC. The hours prior to the "nightcapping", is when AD & DC pushed. I do not assume to speak for any faction, but from what I observed, it seems that this was done in an attempt to place a bit of a buffer of keeps between them and EP, in preparation for the overnight and early morning push (or "nightcapping") by EP which then almost always resulted in a completely EP dominated map with them having emperor and all six scrolls from about 3 AM EST - 9 AM EST.

What you read was in response to two different users for very specific points. The first (if you go back), was from someone else claiming that AD and DC "double teamed" the "entire campaign". He seemed genuinely frustrated and I have been there, so I understand how that feels, so I responded to that specific concern and you can go back to read if you like.

The second was in response to someone insulting my intelligence insinuating I do not understand how time zones work. You can also see that. In no way was I condoning "hardcore nightcapping" by any faction. Yet, the fact remains (and this is what I was explaining earlier) that this is a divisive term because it means different hours to different players. The time frame that the player was referring to was when AD and DC pushed EP. As I stated earlier, this was during the hours prior to the time frame that EP took over the map.

DizzyMac wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zvsfr82/articles/ztmq7yc#zxkwqfr

No need for insults. No one ever said they could not play during those hours. However, that does not mean that there is a balance and this is on PC/NA when a majority of those players are sleeping. The point still stands that any ad and dc that were on during that time just prior, were most likely trying to create a bit of a buffer for themselves before that particular timeframe when ep ran the map.

Actually you would be surprised just how many messages they get telling them to get off NA server and to stop playing ESO, from AD and DC players.

Some well known AD & DC guild leaders even messaged them and told them the only way double teaming against EP would stop is if the guilds in that time frame disbanded and split their player base evenly between DC and AD (yes there are screenshots of those conversations in a discord i am in)

Okay, I will clarify so it is not taken quite so literally. No one that I have seen in this post, has stated that and I never stated that.

"Nightcapping" is a relative and divisive term. From the NA perspective, EP was "nightcapping" a majority of this campaign and most, if not all, of the last campaign. AD and DC most likely pushed EP in a few of the hours prior to EP taking over the map because they knew the map would soon be completely red, with all scrolls gone and an EP emp. A majority of the time when my husband and I play, AD is getting "double teamed"; but that is not relevant for this discussion.

Now, maybe we can get back on track to the OP's original topic?

Theignson · February 3

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

Not sure what's "pathetic" about double teaming the 1st place faction to prevent them from snowballing a massive lead and killing the entire campaign for everyone. That's just how you play multifaction PvP games.

I was referring mostly to individual behaviors I mentioned, but yes, double teaming the "last" place faction to make them further and further behind is pathetic in my book. We all know that every faction is double teamed frequently, but this was a concerted and apparently arranged-outside-the-game effort to consistently double team EP for at least 10 days-- yes, I think that's pathetic.

Even sadder is that AD and DC were really close at the end, but AD, instead of trying to win, kept obediently focusing EP, even though by attacking DC they could have won the campaign.

Oh yes, I know, "no one cares about the campaign", well, if that's the case, none of any of this would have happened! Why care about getting gated if you don't care at all about the campaign? Why focus EP for days and days, to get ahead of them ,if you don't care about the campaign?

Again, however, at the end of the day, I don't condone ANY of these behaviors, regardless of whether the person is on EP.

If I know who we are discussing, this player was on DC and before that AD for about the last 2 years before coming back to EP

johnjetau · February 3

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Back to the original topic, that same player is doing it again right now.

Yes he was at it again.

On his DC character he grabbed the hammer from behind the gate. Went with it to Bleakers and then promptly lost it to EP players who then started to hit DC keeps all the way to Glade.

While EP were doing this, he then was on his EP account picking up a AD scroll and running it back to EP territory.

This happens far too often and something needs to be done about it. It makes a joke of a faction locked campaign.

And yes, this player has had previous accounts banned. He has bragged about just making a new one.

xylena_lazarow · February 4

johnjetau wrote: »

This happens far too often and something needs to be done about it. It makes a joke of a faction locked campaign.

The irony here is that faction locks prevent us from simply switching and killing the cheater. The only way for us to actually counter this nonsense would be to use a second account just like him.

karthrag_inak · February 4

"Breaking story! News at 11".

Come on, khajiit was not the only one who thought that upon seeing thread title.

GooGa592 · February 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

johnjetau wrote: »

This happens far too often and something needs to be done about it. It makes a joke of a faction locked campaign.

The irony here is that faction locks prevent us from simply switching and killing the cheater. The only way for us to actually counter this nonsense would be to use a second account just like him.

What's stopping you from creating a second account and doing just that? I'm sure many players would thank you for the service if you did.

Minnesinger · February 4

That is one really toxic campaign with a lot of on going disrespect between the factions. Not to play down the issue but for a long time there have been blue guild names that are about the said player. Not very nice ones. Ther amount of hate tells that the player gets must be massive. For some reason, one player has been singled out to be the root of all evils. Subjectively, this is just one of the aspects between the feud that is called GH pvp.

xylena_lazarow · February 4

GooGa592 wrote: »

What's stopping you from creating a second account and doing just that? I'm sure many players would thank you for the service if you did.

If you ask me, using two accounts in an attempt to manipulate a large scale PvP outcome is cheating, but we haven't heard anything from ZOS, so I'd rather not take the risk (that it would indeed be considered cheating by ZOS).

SaffronCitrusflower · February 5

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

What's stopping you from creating a second account and doing just that? I'm sure many players would thank you for the service if you did.

If you ask me, using two accounts in an attempt to manipulate a large scale PvP outcome is cheating, but we haven't heard anything from ZOS, so I'd rather not take the risk (that it would indeed be considered cheating by ZOS).

The best response to unsportsmanlike conduct can't possibly be more unsportsmanlike conduct and vitriol. Coordinating with your opponent to gate keep the faction you're accusing of bad behavior is also bad behavior and equally inappropriate. In addition, the faction the player you're complaining about plays on finished last place last campaign, so their bad behavior is not helping their faction, it's hurting them.

xylena_lazarow · February 5

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Coordinating with your opponent to gate keep the faction

I stand by what I said earlier. That's normal multifaction game politics. Threat assessment is very important in this style of PvP. If you don't focus down the biggest threat, they will run away with the game early, ruining it for everyone. You've seen it happen over and over, everyone has. If I'm going to wake up to red holding all 6 scrolls, I'm going to focus them.

CrazyKitty · February 6

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Coordinating with your opponent to gate keep the faction

I stand by what I said earlier. That's normal multifaction game politics. Threat assessment is very important in this style of PvP. If you don't focus down the biggest threat, they will run away with the game early, ruining it for everyone. You've seen it happen over and over, everyone has. If I'm going to wake up to red holding all 6 scrolls, I'm going to focus them.

When I logged on just now it is 7am my time, and DC is pop locked. EP didn't own a single keep or scroll, and you're still justifying open cooperation between AD and DC. Seems the problem is less one person on EP than it is a bunch of people on other factions engaging in unsportsmanlike conduct. This kind of situation and behavior absolutely justifies nightcapping because it's the only way EP can stay competitive. DC is pop locked at 7am, openly cooperating with AD, and people are trying to claim DC is at some kind of disadvantage in the campaign. The disconnect is crazy.

As an above poster pointed out, the remedy to unsporting conduct can't possibly be to engage in unsportsmanlike conduct yourself.

xylena_lazarow · February 6

CrazyKitty wrote: »

When I logged on just now it is 7am my time, and DC is pop locked. EP didn't own a single keep or scroll, and you're still justifying open cooperation between AD and DC.

EP still has a 1500 point lead. They are the threat.

CrazyKitty · February 6

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

When I logged on just now it is 7am my time, and DC is pop locked. EP didn't own a single keep or scroll, and you're still justifying open cooperation between AD and DC.

EP still has a 1500 point lead. They are the threat.

It's disappointing when people make justifications for unsportsmanlike conduct, especially when they're the ones in the stronger position to begin with.

xylena_lazarow · February 6

CrazyKitty wrote: »

It's disappointing when people make justifications for unsportsmanlike conduct, especially when they're the ones in the stronger position to begin with.

Standard issue multifaction game politics is not unsportsmanlike. Sabotaging your own faction is unsportsmanlike.

EP's 1500 point lead is objectively the stronger position, and they have a strong ball group that plays NA afternoons.

Theignson · February 6

So DC and AD are still double teaming EP this campaign, but as Xylena points out, this makes more sense because EP is in the lead. It makes sense that the double teaming shifts based on the score, but this doesn't always happen. Since there are 3 factions and so few people play per faction at any onetime, it is almost always 2 v1. (In the old days the factions could split and half of each faction could be fighting half of the other , ie 6 major divisions, so no faction was necessarily double teamed).

Also 2 nights ago I logged in and AD and DC each had half the map, weren't fighting each other, and focused EP who only had Arrius.

Both AD and DC full factions tried for about 90 minutes to take Arrius, but couldn't do it. EP got a smooth 106K d-tick.

So, there are advantages to be double teamed,,,from time to time...

On the other hand, the history of the animousity towards this one player, and it being taken out on the whole EP faction, is now , amazingly, at least 4 years old. Years ago, rumor goes, both Dracarys and Tyr left EP because of this player. And EP was routinely double teamed , supposedly, all because of this player, which makes little sense. Then this player left EP for 2 years, but recently returned, and here we are again. The whole situation is toxic!

xylena_lazarow · February 6

Theignson wrote: »

On the other hand, the history of the animousity towards this one player, and it being taken out on the whole EP faction, is now , amazingly, at least 4 years old. Years ago, rumor goes, both Dracarys and Tyr left EP because of this player. And EP was routinely double teamed , supposedly, all because of this player, which makes little sense. Then this player left EP for 2 years, but recently returned, and here we are again. The whole situation is toxic!

This player was at one point perma'd for making death threats and/or telling others to self harm. This player is on a new account now. This is on ZOS for ignoring everyone who continues to report this player.

TechMaybeHic · February 7

I still don't see a coordinated effort. Monday night, I was on and when I started, AD was hitting DC tri-keeps and EP was taking the north and that feels petty normal lately. Was a pause for a whole on thst when Drac and Tyr left EP, for sure; but now ot seems AD is the ball group and then a guild running a group seemingly 40+ rather that ot be the old days of EP Drac and Tyr, and then the mentioned player stacking as many players.

I can guarantee it's completely mindless though. DC ightts out of there corner at 8 pm EST. Gets Dragon Claw and Bleakers. Then you cannot beg the ruddderless PUGs to turn to Ash. They just want to keep going East. I've seen people on zone plead for Ash, and it takes a long mass effort before there is enough buy in to reach numbers that can match that AD response.

I do feel like EP has felt like a softer target though. Not sure why, but winning fights probably has a lot of sway over the PUGs.

GooGa592 · February 7

Theignson wrote: »

So DC and AD are still double teaming EP this campaign, but as Xylena points out, this makes more sense because EP is in the lead. It makes sense that the double teaming shifts based on the score, but this doesn't always happen. Since there are 3 factions and so few people play per faction at any onetime, it is almost always 2 v1. (In the old days the factions could split and half of each faction could be fighting half of the other , ie 6 major divisions, so no faction was necessarily double teamed).

Also 2 nights ago I logged in and AD and DC each had half the map, weren't fighting each other, and focused EP who only had Arrius.

Both AD and DC full factions tried for about 90 minutes to take Arrius, but couldn't do it. EP got a smooth 106K d-tick.

So, there are advantages to be double teamed,,,from time to time...

On the other hand, the history of the animousity towards this one player, and it being taken out on the whole EP faction, is now , amazingly, at least 4 years old. Years ago, rumor goes, both Dracarys and Tyr left EP because of this player. And EP was routinely double teamed , supposedly, all because of this player, which makes little sense. Then this player left EP for 2 years, but recently returned, and here we are again. The whole situation is toxic!

The last 5 days or so of the last campaign DC had 2k plus lead, and the double teaming did not stop. When pointing this out in DC zone chat the response was "we're taking a victory lap". With DC pop locking earlier and holding pop lock later than any other faction it's nonsensical to claim any faction other than DC has the advantage. This is going on with the aid of one of the ZOS stream team members as well, and coming from people who've all stated that they'd move to the least strong factions for better fights and to create more fairness in Cyrodiil...but none of them swapped to the losing faction and they just keep up with their convoluted justifications for coordinated double teaming.

The moral disengagement and vitriol is at an all time high these days in cyrodiil. It's taking the fun out of the game even for those of us who play on DC.

On another note, I'm pretty sure Tyr dissolved because their main leader was highly temperamental and people just got tired of it. I ran with Tyr for a few months, but that's all I could take and had to call it quits, along with a good friend I made while in that guild.

We'd all be better off if the one main offender this thread was created to spotlight was removed from the game, but using them to justify all the other toxic behaviors from themselves doesn't work either. It's what's called moral disengagement.

xylena_lazarow · February 7

GooGa592 wrote: »

The last 5 days or so of the last campaign DC had 2k plus lead, and the double teaming did not stop.

That's a narrow margin, one which EP can easily overcome in a single nightcap. Maybe we need another decade of lopsided 20k margin nightcap wins before players understand.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 8

Theignson wrote: »

On the other hand, the history of the animousity towards this one player, and it being taken out on the whole EP faction, is now , amazingly, at least 4 years old. Years ago, rumor goes, both Dracarys and Tyr left EP because of this player.

I can't speak for Tyr but Drac left EP because the population imbalance was crazy, queues for the campaign were 80-150+ every night we played and the whole map was EP basically every raid. Players who remember back then we initially switched to AD for 1 campaign (because we had chars for that already) but it made AD too strong with the amount of guilds they had in primetime and it was hard to find competitive fights between DC and EP (AD pugs&guilds followed wherever we went it felt like) so after returning to EP for the 'performance tests' to be able to field any combination of classes we made the switch to DC for the health of the campaign and our own fun. The player in question was actually requesting trials with us back then which we politely declined, was no bad blood(at least from our side).

I've also seen this player acting in this unsportsmanlike manner it's a shame to see people have to stoop to that level to try and win a campaign and ruin others fun.

Reverb · February 8

Theignson wrote: »

So
Also 2 nights ago I logged in and AD and DC each had half the map, weren't fighting each other, and focused EP who only had Arrius.

That Arrius fight was epic though. Biggest fun most of us have had this campaign.

Theignson wrote: »

On the other hand, the history of the animousity towards this one player, and it being taken out on the whole EP faction, is now , amazingly, at least 4 years old. Years ago, rumor goes, both Dracarys and Tyr left EP because of this player. And EP was routinely double teamed , supposedly, all because of this player, which makes little sense. Then this player left EP for 2 years, but recently returned, and here we are again. The whole situation is toxic!

Many individuals left EP because of that person. Many people left ESO because of that person. The guilds you mention didn’t leave EP because of him directly but indirectly, because EP rallying behind him to take and hold the entire map around the clock made it so there weren’t fights when playing on EP. For those of us here for pvp, it’s not fun when your enemies log off because of your factions gameplay. It’s not fun to fight guards and stand around in empty keeps. It’s not fun to be handed a scroll or hammer by an ally on an alt account instead of fighting for it. These are things that player still doesn’t understand, and why the focus will stay on the faction that rallies behind his strategies.

dcrush · February 8

Reverb wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

So
Also 2 nights ago I logged in and AD and DC each had half the map, weren't fighting each other, and focused EP who only had Arrius.

That Arrius fight was epic though. Biggest fun most of us have had this campaign.

This has happened many times at Faregyl, with AD defending against EP and DC both attacking the same keep. And those fights are always the most epic. Successfully defending a keep against overwhelming numbers is, in my opinion, way more fun and satisfying than zerging the entire map in 12v1 fights.