PC/NA Gray Host has a player that is multiboxxing and/or sabotaging his own faction

xylena_lazarow · January 30

DC and EP accounts both logged into PC/NA Gray Host at the same time multiple times this week. This itself is apparently okay, but he is doing so in order to gain an advantage in PvP, which may violate the EULA or TOS. If this behavior turns out to be allowed, then more players will start doing it. Do we want that?

Uses a lowbie DC toon to grab scrolls (while DC has advantage and he won't die) then puts them at bad locations in a deliberate attempt to give EP an advantage (it can be argued whether this is a real advantage or not, but the intent is pretty obvious to anyone who plays regularly or knows this guy). Pretty sure sabotaging your own team is also against TOS.

Also more evidence faction locks are pathetically useless.

KiltMaster · January 30

IDK about this guy and I'm not defending this, but when this would happen on Blackreach and people would report it, we were told that it's not against TOS.

Now that was different cuz it's not faction locked, so you can just log in to a different toon instead of a different account.

But I'd bet that they'd say something similar.

fizl101 · January 30

If the player is controlling each account independently my understanding is that it isn't against TOS. Controlling multiple characters simultaneously using a single input or programmed like you see with farm bots is against TOS

xylena_lazarow · January 30

KiltMaster wrote: »

IDK about this guy and I'm not defending this, but when this would happen on Blackreach and people would report it, we were told that it's not against TOS.

fizl101 wrote: »

If the player is controlling each account independently my understanding is that it isn't against TOS. Controlling multiple characters simultaneously using a single input or programmed like you see with farm bots is against TOS

Edit: Thanks for the update. After reading the ZOS reply, I do believe this does indeed fall under "doing this as a means to violate our EULA or other Terms of Service rules in other ways" and should be looked into.

fizl101 · January 30

Found an old link that mentions it, I'm sure I have read a newer one too https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6488114/#Comment_6488114

xylena_lazarow · January 30

fizl101 wrote: »

Found an old link that mentions it, I'm sure I have read a newer one too https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6488114/#Comment_6488114

Thanks for the link. From the ZOS reply...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

They aren't simultaneously playing the two characters... Now that said, if we find that someone is doing this as a means to violate our EULA or other Terms of Service rules in other ways, we may deem it actionable.

He is definitely attempting to use both characters simultaneously to gain an advantage in PvP, so per the last line from ZOS, they should really look into this.

TechMaybeHic · January 30

There's more than just one EP; there's AD as well in DC watching zone, standing at different crossing points to report activity. When they get agitated on their faction , often times they can't help but to start talking trash in DC zone. I'd be willing to bet the other 2 factions deal with it as well

I'm betting ZOS doesn't mind the extra account purchase, and even if a ban goes; allow it to go on long enough so they find it worthwhile to buy another

Seyer530 · January 30

This player has been reported multiple times by multiple players for logging into their DC alt account to pick up Volendrung and run it to their EP account and/or friends so they can kill them and take the hammer to use to EP's advantage as well. Screenshots have been reported by Gray Host players to ZOS. This player also places AD scrolls in DC keeps so that AD will attack DC and keep pressure off EP so that EP can use the advantage and secure points. This is cheating and completely unfair. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom is this against TOS? Can other players create new accounts and multibox and have alt toons on different factions that can do the same in order to even the playing field? Are we able to cheat as well to make the game fair? We need help to get rid of this multiboxer once and for all because he is ruining PVP and Cyrodiil for so many people.

xylena_lazarow · January 30

Seyer530 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom is this against TOS?

If this turns out to be legal per ZOS, I'd consider doing it myself to help even the odds. Is that the Cyro we want?

GooGa592 · January 30

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DC and EP accounts both logged into PC/NA Gray Host at the same time multiple times this week. This itself is apparently okay, but he is doing so in order to gain an advantage in PvP, which may violate the EULA or TOS. If this behavior turns out to be allowed, then more players will start doing it. Do we want that?

Uses a lowbie DC toon to grab scrolls (while DC has advantage and he won't die) then puts them at bad locations in a deliberate attempt to give EP an advantage (it can be argued whether this is a real advantage or not, but the intent is pretty obvious to anyone who plays regularly or knows this guy). Pretty sure sabotaging your own team is also against TOS.

Also more evidence faction locks are pathetically useless.

Super low pop caps have turned Cyrodiil super toxic. Always same handful of people fighting each other now, some spending 14 hours/day online focusing only one faction, focusing the last place faction and justifying it however sounds good to them. Essentially doing the exact same things they complain about other factions doing. Cyrodiil sportsmanship has degraded very noticeably lately, and ZOS just keeps lowering the pop cap making it worse. The main problem isn't the players...although I do know who you're talking about and they're not appreciated by anyone I don't think. But this is a situation where it's best to check our own behavior before throwing stones at others.

xylena_lazarow · January 30

GooGa592 wrote: »

But this is a situation where it's best to check our own behavior before throwing stones at others.

ZOS needs to let us know where to draw the line then. Double teaming is just multiplayer/FFA politics, same thing happens in other popular multi/FFA PvP games like Magic EDH or casual Smash.

Seyer530 · January 31

This game has Queens, Ladies, Lords, Chieftains...it is based on Politics. Of course deals can be made cross-factions between players to achieve objectives!! That is obvious. What is not obvious, but is most definitely cheating and unfair is logging in to alternate accounts on different factions to give your main account and faction unfair tactical and score advantages over gamers who are legitimately trying to win a 30-day campaign. ZOS should investigate, which they can easily do, and weigh in. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom please.

Duke_Falcon · January 31

ZoS should implement a function in the game so the players corpse can be hung from the ft wall of Glades, Fare, or Arrius to show that he's a traitor to his team!!! 8-P

Quackery · January 31

Is there a way to ban his IP even though VPN can be used?

TechMaybeHic · January 31

Quackery wrote: »

Is there a way to ban his IP even though VPN can be used?

Most people are going to appear as coming from an IP belonging to their ISP, or as you mentioned; VPN provider.

Now given that someone has to launch the ESO client, there could be code in there to identify the PC that is running the client. I doubt ESO has that though; and then if someone really wanted; they could just use cloud hosted desktops like Shadow PC

Saying it out loud (err typed) it sounds like a cat and mouse game where ZOS would have to work harder than someone who has an unhealthy obsession and free time

DaisyRay · January 31

I'm assuming it's against TOS to say who the person is that's doing it, but everyone I know has seen it. This person makes no attempts of trying to hide his cheating. It's honestly sad that he has that much time and energy on his hands to cheat for factions that are well capable of winning without such disgraceful antics.

I might be AD, but I fully recognize that both DC and EP are good playing factions, so it sucks that people like that player makes them look bad by cheating. I hope zos does something to him at some point.

oMrRust · January 31

DaisyRay wrote: »

I'm assuming it's against TOS to say who the person is that's doing it, but everyone I know has seen it. This person makes no attempts of trying to hide his cheating. It's honestly sad that he has that much time and energy on his hands to cheat for factions that are well capable of winning without such disgraceful antics.

I might be AD, but I fully recognize that both DC and EP are good playing factions, so it sucks that people like that player makes them look bad by cheating. I hope zos does something to him at some point.

Yup it refers to "Name & Shaming". Can't give names. However, unsure if it can be applied to talking about something that's has been going on that has been considered to be cheating.

Theignson · January 31

Everything that's reported about one faction has been seen by all the factions.

I've seen "ep" players blatantly hand the hammer or scrolls to DC.

I've seen evidence that other factions read EP zone calls in order to thwart them.

Whatever this person did this campaign didn't have much impact, since the massive double teaming by AD and DC this whole campaign achieved their (apparent) objective, that EP didn't win

(every faction also complains about double teaming, but this time virtually every night it was happening. I log in around 8 pm PST at the earliest and for hours AD and DC attack EP, gate us or reduce us to one keep, and don't attack each other)

(It was also reported that this was explicitly discussed by a well known streamer who said AD and DC reached an agreement to do this. This of course is not a violation of TOS)

All that being said, the notion that someone would go to the trouble to make a second account just to manipulate the campaign seems pretty pathetic to me! All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

Delphinia · February 1

Theignson wrote: »

Everything that's reported about one faction has been seen by all the factions.

I've seen "ep" players blatantly hand the hammer or scrolls to DC.

I've seen evidence that other factions read EP zone calls in order to thwart them.

Whatever this person did this campaign didn't have much impact, since the massive double teaming by AD and DC this whole campaign achieved their (apparent) objective, that EP didn't win

(every faction also complains about double teaming, but this time virtually every night it was happening. I log in around 8 pm PST at the earliest and for hours AD and DC attack EP, gate us or reduce us to one keep, and don't attack each other)

(It was also reported that this was explicitly discussed by a well known streamer who said AD and DC reached an agreement to do this. This of course is not a violation of TOS)

All that being said, the notion that someone would go to the trouble to make a second account just to manipulate the campaign seems pretty pathetic to me! All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

On GH PC/NA, whenever I was on around the hours of 2:30 AM EST - 9:30 AM EST, for the past couple of campaigns, (even a majority of this one) the map has been dominated by red and every scroll was in their possession, as well as many mornings getting emp. Even trying to get a tri keep back (after scrolls were taken) was difficult to nearly impossible during this timeframe.

What was the overall score difference in the previous campaign? If I remember correctly, I believe EP was even ahead by roughly 15k-20k for at least a couple of weeks?

I think AD and DC only started focusing more on EP in the earlier hours during the last portion of this current campaign, (before EP began their Cyrodiil tour across the map and before most NA players went to sleep because many have work in the morning). Anyway, perhaps it was not so much AD and DC "teaming" necessarily just for the sake of "teaming" because they really like each other, or have something against reds, but more that they were both just utterly sick and tired of being gated every day/night and were trying to give themselves a little bit of a buffer in the hours before the entire map went red?

This was actually the map around 10 PM EST at the end of this campaign.

TechMaybeHic · February 1

Delphinia wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Everything that's reported about one faction has been seen by all the factions.

I've seen "ep" players blatantly hand the hammer or scrolls to DC.

I've seen evidence that other factions read EP zone calls in order to thwart them.

Whatever this person did this campaign didn't have much impact, since the massive double teaming by AD and DC this whole campaign achieved their (apparent) objective, that EP didn't win

(every faction also complains about double teaming, but this time virtually every night it was happening. I log in around 8 pm PST at the earliest and for hours AD and DC attack EP, gate us or reduce us to one keep, and don't attack each other)

(It was also reported that this was explicitly discussed by a well known streamer who said AD and DC reached an agreement to do this. This of course is not a violation of TOS)

All that being said, the notion that someone would go to the trouble to make a second account just to manipulate the campaign seems pretty pathetic to me! All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

On GH PC/NA, whenever I was on around the hours of 2:30 AM EST - 9:30 AM EST, for the past couple of campaigns, (even a majority of this one) the map has been dominated by red and every scroll was in their possession, as well as many mornings getting emp. Even trying to get a tri keep back (after scrolls were taken) was difficult to nearly impossible during this timeframe.

What was the overall score difference in the previous campaign? If I remember correctly, I believe EP was even ahead by roughly 15k-20k for at least a couple of weeks?

I think AD and DC only started focusing more on EP in the earlier hours during the last portion of this current campaign, (before EP began their Cyrodiil tour across the map and before most NA players went to sleep because many have work in the morning). Anyway, perhaps it was not so much AD and DC "teaming" necessarily just for the sake of "teaming" because they really like each other, or have something against reds, but more that they were both just utterly sick and tired of being gated every day/night and were trying to give themselves a little bit of a buffer in the hours before the entire map went red?

This was actually the map around 10 PM EST at the end of this campaign.

I was there for thst. At 7 PM EST, AD was stacking and had a large part of the map, pushing both EP and DC. Your screenshot is the result after AD then had multiple keeps light as a counter.

Similar happened Monday when AD had both EP scrolls and Glade then hitting Rayles around 7 pm EST

Might be the point you are making, but DC can't get DC to focus one way alone, let alone coordinate with another faction. The only thing that can do that instigation. It appears true for EP as well from what I've seen

In any case; what the OP is talking about is far more grievous. Getting on an enemy faction as 1 of them and picking up their main faction scroll to run to that faction while mechanics prevent their own faction from any recourse crosses a line

WuffyCerulei · February 1

This could probably be regarded as intentional griefing. I’ll let my friend who’s been pvping in EP a lot to be aware of this.

biminirwb17_ESO · February 1

The person Xy mentions in the original post has been doing this for many campaigns, clarification of the status of this action would be useful.

EP was double teamed towards the end of the campaign because of the actions of the players on between 4 and 8 am.

Every faction takes the map from time to time, but this is different.

Snarky whispers from EP players who just tbagged you when 30 of them defeated 4 AD or DC is a bit sad. Dancing on the scroll temple after killing the npcs with a 20 man ulti dump is really not necessary.

Maybe let other factions recover their tri-keeps and let people pvp instead of killing the map and ruining play for the poor EP who have to log into the mess created by a few thoughtless EP players.

Delphinia · February 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Everything that's reported about one faction has been seen by all the factions.

I've seen "ep" players blatantly hand the hammer or scrolls to DC.

I've seen evidence that other factions read EP zone calls in order to thwart them.

Whatever this person did this campaign didn't have much impact, since the massive double teaming by AD and DC this whole campaign achieved their (apparent) objective, that EP didn't win

(every faction also complains about double teaming, but this time virtually every night it was happening. I log in around 8 pm PST at the earliest and for hours AD and DC attack EP, gate us or reduce us to one keep, and don't attack each other)

(It was also reported that this was explicitly discussed by a well known streamer who said AD and DC reached an agreement to do this. This of course is not a violation of TOS)

All that being said, the notion that someone would go to the trouble to make a second account just to manipulate the campaign seems pretty pathetic to me! All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

On GH PC/NA, whenever I was on around the hours of 2:30 AM EST - 9:30 AM EST, for the past couple of campaigns, (even a majority of this one) the map has been dominated by red and every scroll was in their possession, as well as many mornings getting emp. Even trying to get a tri keep back (after scrolls were taken) was difficult to nearly impossible during this timeframe.

What was the overall score difference in the previous campaign? If I remember correctly, I believe EP was even ahead by roughly 15k-20k for at least a couple of weeks?

I think AD and DC only started focusing more on EP in the earlier hours during the last portion of this current campaign, (before EP began their Cyrodiil tour across the map and before most NA players went to sleep because many have work in the morning). Anyway, perhaps it was not so much AD and DC "teaming" necessarily just for the sake of "teaming" because they really like each other, or have something against reds, but more that they were both just utterly sick and tired of being gated every day/night and were trying to give themselves a little bit of a buffer in the hours before the entire map went red?

This was actually the map around 10 PM EST at the end of this campaign.

I was there for thst. At 7 PM EST, AD was stacking and had a large part of the map, pushing both EP and DC. Your screenshot is the result after AD then had multiple keeps light as a counter.

Similar happened Monday when AD had both EP scrolls and Glade then hitting Rayles around 7 pm EST

Might be the point you are making, but DC can't get DC to focus one way alone, let alone coordinate with another faction. The only thing that can do that instigation. It appears true for EP as well from what I've seen

In any case; what the OP is talking about is far more grievous. Getting on an enemy faction as 1 of them and picking up their main faction scroll to run to that faction while mechanics prevent their own faction from any recourse crosses a line

I most definitely agree with you on that point regarding what this player is being accused of doing. I was merely commenting on the portion of another user's post regarding "teaming" and from what I've witnessed, it happens on all factions, I was just trying to offer up an explanation to him as to why things may have seemed a little "off" to him this campaign and appeared that DC and AD may have been focusing more on pushing EP for the last couple of weeks. As an AD since beta, I know all too well what it feels like to have both factions gate you for years. From just my perspective of course, for whatever that is worth.

But again, whole heartedly agree with you and I can only hope that ZOS will look into it and I trust that they will do what they need to do if it does break the rules. Faction stacking and "teaming" are also actions that cause negative and toxic behavior. But, those are allowed from my understanding. I have seen it all and yes, all factions do seem to snuggle up with another faction from time to time. I have seen EP and DC standing together not fighting each other and only focusing AD. I have asked an EP once recently why he didn't attack the other two DC and only went after me and his response was "I know them, they're chill"... I am sure other players have also seen AD/EP and AD/DC together at times.

Anyway, since the prior commenter brought that into the discussion, I just wanted to provide some insight as to what may have been the reasoning and to let him know that most of us understand what that feels like. Sometimes it may seem that way, sometimes it may seem like there is no good reason, sometimes it is that way, and sometimes, there is a reason that does not include just a general dislike for an entire faction.

Regarding the scroll snatching and gifting it away, etc. by the OP, I have definitely seen that behavior for years. I have also seen players come in on their alternate accounts and just verbally troll. One of the players is probably the same one the OP is referring to; but of course, no naming and shaming, so I will refrain from mentioning the name. I do not necessarily condone or support this, but ZOS made it possible for players to own more than one account, so unfortunately, I do not hold out too much hope that they will consider it against the rules.

SkaraMinoc · February 1

Everyone knows who this player is as they're notorious on PC NA. They've been been banned before but is somehow still able to make new accounts and play again. It's almost like their previous bans never happened.

Telel · February 1

Welcome to Telel's life, three to four times a week, for the last several years.

This one suggests laughing at how much they need your attention to feel relevant. Cranking up that one song from Greek Fire. Oh, and playing AD so you can experience the height of hard core multi box scrubbery.

Seriously. That bot train tries to pvdoor faregyl like clockwork every single day. No matter how badly EP is getting basted.

Also screen shots., videos, and getting friends to report the scrubs. Make sure everyone knows to send in the links to the robo emails they'll receive after the initial report. Most people skip that step.

CrazyKitty · February 1

GooGa592 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DC and EP accounts both logged into PC/NA Gray Host at the same time multiple times this week. This itself is apparently okay, but he is doing so in order to gain an advantage in PvP, which may violate the EULA or TOS. If this behavior turns out to be allowed, then more players will start doing it. Do we want that?

Uses a lowbie DC toon to grab scrolls (while DC has advantage and he won't die) then puts them at bad locations in a deliberate attempt to give EP an advantage (it can be argued whether this is a real advantage or not, but the intent is pretty obvious to anyone who plays regularly or knows this guy). Pretty sure sabotaging your own team is also against TOS.

Also more evidence faction locks are pathetically useless.

Super low pop caps have turned Cyrodiil super toxic. Always same handful of people fighting each other now, some spending 14 hours/day online focusing only one faction, focusing the last place faction and justifying it however sounds good to them. Essentially doing the exact same things they complain about other factions doing. Cyrodiil sportsmanship has degraded very noticeably lately, and ZOS just keeps lowering the pop cap making it worse. The main problem isn't the players...although I do know who you're talking about and they're not appreciated by anyone I don't think. But this is a situation where it's best to check our own behavior before throwing stones at others.

The winning faction engaged in almost all the same behaviors they complained about the losing faction engaging in last campaign on PC NA. This level of toxicity is taking the fun out of Cyrodiil for everyone, even for the winning faction. We'll see how many players swap away from the winning faction as some have claimed will happen, but I predict it won't happen. There's too many players making excuses for their own toxic behavior and it seems most likely nothing is going to change. None of this toxicity was happening back in 2018 when pop caps were quadruple what they are today, or at least the toxic behavior had such little effect on the campaign that it was irrelevant.

xylena_lazarow · February 1

Theignson wrote: »

All the above things seem pathetic to me, actually

Not sure what's "pathetic" about double teaming the 1st place faction to prevent them from snowballing a massive lead and killing the entire campaign for everyone. That's just how you play multifaction PvP games.

DizzyMac · February 2

Delphinia wrote: »

On GH PC/NA, whenever I was on around the hours of 2:30 AM EST - 9:30 AM EST, for the past couple of campaigns, (even a majority of this one) the map has been dominated by red and every scroll was in their possession, as well as many mornings getting emp. Even trying to get a tri keep back (after scrolls were taken) was difficult to nearly impossible during this timeframe.

What was the overall score difference in the previous campaign? If I remember correctly, I believe EP was even ahead by roughly 15k-20k for at least a couple of weeks?

I think AD and DC only started focusing more on EP in the earlier hours during the last portion of this current campaign, (before EP began their Cyrodiil tour across the map and before most NA players went to sleep because many have work in the morning). Anyway, perhaps it was not so much AD and DC "teaming" necessarily just for the sake of "teaming" because they really like each other, or have something against reds, but more that they were both just utterly sick and tired of being gated every day/night and were trying to give themselves a little bit of a buffer in the hours before the entire map went red?

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zvsfr82/articles/ztmq7yc#zxkwqfr

xylena_lazarow · February 2

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work

At least one EP guild has rerolled to help balance their time zone better than 1/3/1. This is a positive result.

DizzyMac · February 2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

Maybe this will help you understand how timezones work

At least one EP guild has rerolled to help balance their time zone better than 1/3/1. This is a positive result.

now just need AD and DC guilds to do the same for the other 20 hours each day

EP has maybe 4 guilds that run properly in reasonable numbers - AD and DC have more ball groups than that on at any one time

SmellyUnlimited · February 2

I’m amazed the kinds of hours some players put into Cyrodiil. The PvP guild I’m in, they have set rotation hours that people log on and off at. I don’t, but there are groups of people logging on at 8am - 2pm, then another group comes on from 2-8pm, then a mixture of both will play generally through the night. It’s truly terrifying the upkeep involved in keeping your faction on an even playing field.

This guy certainly sounds like a problem, but then again the entire zone dynamic seems like a problem.