"You will not be able to outfit your character in class styles other than your current class."

KlauthWarthog · February 19

Never let a perfectly bad idea go to waste, I guess.

Anyammis · February 19

Given we finally got some news on this in the patch notes I'm going to reiterate again in hopes of ZOS listening:
We do not want class restricted styles at all. We do not want this to be a trend. We enjoy eso over other games because it allows us to customize our characters without restricting things by silly restrictions. Please reconsider this decision, or if you don't, please never do this again with any other style. We do not want fashion to be locked to race/class/etc. We want more options, not less. Instead of restricting newer styles, why not release older styles we don't have yet like the Asylum weapons which I know a few people have wanted for years myself included?

I admit I'm kinda annoyed because when IA was originally announced I was concerned about a trend of class based sets leading to other class based things like cosmetics and here we are. Please don't continue this trend. Some of us play on one character/class only or mostly. Before IA dropped you could have access to more or less everything in game with one character/class if you were willing to respec them accordingly. This newer restrictive trend negatively impacts people who don't have the time, desire, or patience to roll up an alt. TES has always had a roleplay heavy community and a few of these styles have no similar alternative currently in game that is in the universal motif pool.

tomofhyrule · February 19

Well... I guess they're doubling down on this.

I'm disappointed. Adding more restrictions is never the way to go, and doubly so since these are not restricted at all on live.

I did notice that the aura didn't show up on my character when I previewed them this time, but that might not mean anything. I had to preview them from the Collections menu since I got some UI error (DCD899EF) when using the Outfit station. I turned all addons off, but it was still coming up with this giant error and blocking me from applying any styles in the outfit station at all.

I wouldn't mind if someone could check if they could still use the Outfit station or if it was just me.

Though I am finding it... mildly humorous that the answer to "Boss, these people want to use the class styles on other classes" is looking from my end like "Fine then, just block them from using outfits at all and see how they like it!"

tomofhyrule · February 19

Yep, just deleted the entire Addons/SavedVariables folders and tried again:

/EsoUI/Ingame/Outfits/Keyboard/OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard.lua:99: function expected instead of nil
stack traceback:
/EsoUI/Ingame/Outfits/Keyboard/OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard.lua:99: in function 'OutfitStyleGridEntrySetup'
<Locals> control = ud, data = [table:1]{clearAction = T, preferredOutfitSlot = 0, gridHeaderName = "", iconFile = "EsoUI/Art/Restyle/gearSlot_hea...", gridHeaderTemplate = "ZO_GridScrollList_Entry_Header..."}, selected = ud </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Templates/ScrollTemplates.lua:2463: in function 'ZO_ScrollList_UpdateScroll'
<Locals> self = ud, windowHeight = 550, activeControls = [table:2]{}, offset = 0, IS_REAL_NUMBER = F, activeIndex = 1, numActive = 0, allData = [table:3]{}, visibleDataIndices = [table:4]{1 = 1}, mode = 3, firstInViewVisibleIndex = 1, nextCandidateVisibleIndex = 1, currentDataIndex = 1, dataEntry = [table:5]{bottom = 67, left = 0, typeId = 1, top = 0, right = 67}, bottomEdge = 550, controlTop = 0, uniformControlHeight = -1, dataType = [table:6]{controlHeight = 67, controlWidth = 67, templateName = "ZO_OutfitStyle_GridEntry_Templ...", spacingX = 5, spacingY = 5, selectable = T, indentX = 0}, controlPool = [table:7]{m_NextFree = 2, m_NextControlId = 1}, control = ud </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Templates/ScrollTemplates.lua:2219: in function 'ZO_ScrollList_Commit'
<Locals> self = ud, windowHeight = 550, selectionsEnabled = F, scrollableDistance = 5013, foundSelected = F, i = 0 </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_ParametricGridList/ZO_AbstractGridScrollList.lua:148: in function 'ZO_AbstractGridScrollList:CommitGridList'
<Locals> self = [table:8]{indentAmount = 0, autoFillRows = T, headerOperationId = 2, numCellsPerRow = 8, currentHeaderData = "Unavailable", controlsAddedSinceLastFill = 0, headerTemplateName = "ZO_GridScrollList_Entry_Header...", currentHeaderName = "Unavailable", headerPrePadding = 15, entryOperationId = 1, entryTemplateName = "ZO_OutfitStyle_GridEntry_Templ...", nextOperationId = 3, headerPostPadding = 0, autoFillRowsOperationId = 1}, scrollData = [table:3] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Ingame/Outfits/Keyboard/OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard.lua:444: in function 'ZO_OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard:RefreshVisible'
<Locals> self = [table:9]{isDirty = T}, gridListPanelList = [table:8] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Ingame/Outfits/Keyboard/OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard.lua:191: in function 'ZO_OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard:OnShowing'
<Locals> self = [table:9] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Ingame/Outfits/Keyboard/OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard.lua:32: in function 'callback'
<Locals> oldState = "hidden", newState = "showing" </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/Utility/ZO_CallbackObject.lua:132: in function 'ZO_CallbackObjectMixin:FireCallbacks'
<Locals> self = [table:10]{allowShowHideTimeUpdates = F, fireCallbackDepth = 1, animationTemplate = "FadeSceneAnimation", state = "showing", duration = 200}, eventName = "StateChange", registry = [table:11]{}, callbackInfoIndex = 1, callbackInfo = [table:12]{4 = F}, callback = /EsoUI/Ingame/Outfits/Keyboard/OutfitStylesPanel_Keyboard.lua:30, deleted = F </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Scene/ZO_SceneFragment.lua:144: in function 'ZO_SceneFragment:SetState'
<Locals> self = [table:10], newState = "showing", oldState = "hidden" </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Scene/ZO_SceneFragment.lua:162: in function 'ZO_SceneFragment:ShouldBeShown'
<Locals> self = [table:10] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Scene/ZO_SceneFragment.lua:233: in function 'ZO_SceneFragment:Refresh'
<Locals> self = [table:10], oldState = "hidden" </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Scene/ZO_Scene.lua:44: in function 'ZO_Scene:AddFragment'
<Locals> self = [table:13]{name = "restyle_station_keyboard", restoresHUDSceneToggleUIMode = F, restoresHUDSceneToggleGameMenu = F, wasShownInGamepadPreferredMode = F, wasRequestedToShowInGamepadPreferredMode = F, state = "shown", disallowEvaluateTransitionCompleteCount = 0}, fragment = [table:10] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Scene/ZO_Scene.lua:81: in function 'ZO_Scene:AddTemporaryFragment'
<Locals> self = [table:13], fragment = [table:10] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Scene/ZO_SceneManager_Base.lua:113: in function 'ZO_SceneManager_Base:AddFragment'
<Locals> self = [table:14]{exitUIModeOnChatFocusLost = F, hudUISceneHidesAutomatically = T, remoteSceneSequenceNumber = 11, numTopLevelShown = 0, hudUISceneName = "hudui", fireCallbackDepth = 0, isLoadingScreenShown = F, initialized = F, hudSceneName = "hud", numRemoteTopLevelShown = 0}, fragment = [table:10], state = "shown" </Locals>
/EsoUI/Ingame/Restyle/Keyboard/RestyleCommon_Keyboard.lua:314: in function 'ZO_RestyleCommon_Keyboard:RefreshCategoryContent'
<Locals> self = [table:15]{}, categoryData = [table:16]{name = "Head"}, referenceData = [table:17]{restyleMode = 4, restyleSlotType = 0, restyleSetIndex = 1, sortOrder = 0} </Locals>
/EsoUI/Ingame/Restyle/Keyboard/RestyleCommon_Keyboard.lua:161: in function 'TreeEntryOnSelected'
<Locals> control = ud, data = [table:16], selected = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:732: in function 'ZO_TreeNode:OnSelected'
<Locals> self = [table:18]{childrenHeight = 0, open = F, openPercentage = 0, selectSound = "Click_TreeSubcategory", childSpacing = -10, childrenCurrentHeight = 0, selected = F, childIndent = 60, enabled = T} </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:441: in function 'ZO_Tree:SelectNode'
<Locals> self = [table:19]{defaultSpacing = -10, suspendAnimations = F, width = 300, defaultIndent = 60, openAnimationDurationMS = 300, exclusive = T, autoSelectChildOnNodeOpen = F, enabled = T}, treeNode = [table:18], bringParentIntoView = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:113: in function 'ZO_Tree:SelectFirstChild'
<Locals> self = [table:19], parentNode = [table:20]{childrenHeight = 160.59411621094, childIndent = 76, open = T, openPercentage = 0, selectSound = "Click_TreeHeader", childSpacing = 0, childrenCurrentHeight = 0, selected = F, enabled = T}, children = [table:21]{}, firstChild = [table:18] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Ingame/Restyle/Keyboard/RestyleCommon_Keyboard.lua:148: in function 'TreeHeaderSetup_Child'
<Locals> node = [table:20], control = ud, data = [table:22]{pressedIcon = "/esoui/art/treeicons/collectio...", name = "Armor Styles", disabledIcon = "/esoui/art/treeicons/collectio...", enabled = T, mouseoverIcon = "/esoui/art/treeicons/collectio...", normalIcon = "/esoui/art/treeicons/collectio..."}, open = T, userRequested = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:893: in function 'ZO_TreeNode:RefreshControl'
<Locals> self = [table:20], userRequested = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:688: in function 'ZO_TreeNode:SetOpen'
<Locals> self = [table:20], open = T, userRequested = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:353: in function 'ZO_Tree:SetNodeOpen'
<Locals> self = [table:19], treeNode = [table:20], open = T, userRequested = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:347: in function 'ZO_Tree:ToggleNode'
<Locals> self = [table:19], treeNode = [table:20] </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Tree/ZO_Tree.lua:964: in function 'ZO_TreeHeader_OnMouseUp'
<Locals> self = ud, upInside = T </Locals>
/EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Templates/TreeTemplates.lua:34: in function 'ZO_IconHeader_OnMouseUp'
<Locals> control = ud, upInside = T </Locals>
ZO_GroupMenu_KeyboardCategoriesScrollChildZO_GroupMenuKeyboard_StatusIconChildlessHeader1Icon_MouseUp:6: in function '(main chunk)'
<Locals> self = ud, button = 1, upInside = T, ctrl = F, alt = F, shift = F, command = F, parent = ud, handler = /EsoUI/Libraries/ZO_Templates/TreeTemplates.lua:32 </Locals>

I think this 'fix' to make us know that we can't use styles outside of our class may have instead broken the entire outfit system.

Please someone else check and confirm.

BetweenMidgets · February 19

It absolutely seems like this is the ZOS solution to a lack of class identity.

Absolute clown world. What an unfortunate step they're doubling down on.

KingArthasMenethil · February 19

Honestly this whole thing makes zero sense.

Why are visuals important now? After nearly a decade of the outfits letting us use choose how we look and overland and dungeon styles not having a unique style and crafted sets allowing you to pick styles you know for them.

Class identity is combat related not cosmetics.

Tyrobag · February 19

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we please finally get a statement about this? If the devs are going to force through something that's obviously massively unpopular, the least zos can do is explain themselves or participate in a discussion instead of railroading the change and making everyone feel ignored. (Note: obviously this is not Gina making these decisions, but hopefully she can bring us an answer.)

FluffyBird · February 19

Tyrobag wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we please finally get a statement about this?

Jaraal · February 19

Too late in the cycle for a rollback. Looks like they are choosing this hill to dye on.

Tyrobag · February 19

FluffyBird wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we please finally get a statement about this?

At least withers denies information rather than pretending you aren't asking.. Other than that zos is about the same level of stonewalling lol

Bjergenen · February 19

do anyone even remember the times when ZOS and especially @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_Kevin promised there will be better communication between players and company? and yet we have 7 pages of complains they pretend they don't see

Alp · February 20

I can't wait to see a new class released next year with exclusive outfit styles only they can use. /s

LunaFlora · February 20

Really wish those class specific visual effects were an extra thing we could add to any outfit and not something locked to these styles.

These styles shouldn't be restricted please.
especially not if the effects are the reason for their restriction.

tomofhyrule · February 20

I... really don't get it.

So after some testing with some other people, I can basically confirm that ZOS ended up breaking the entire outfitting system. Most likely since they added an "unavailable" category for the non-matching class styles, which can be seen in the Collections menu, but that was not set up in the Outfit system.

It's telling me that there's a fundamental disconnect between what this developer wants and what players do. As soon as I heard they were changing how it looked in the patch notes, the first thing I did was go to an Outfit station to check. Yes, I can look at styles in the Collections menu, but why would I since styles cannot be applied from the Collections menu, they can only be previewed. This tells me that the developer changed the Collections menu and called it done without even checking the outfit station menu, meaning that they seem to think that the only thing players do with outfit styles is... collect them and never use them to make outfits?

Again, this works as intended on Live currently. They just don't lock by class at all. So whoever wanted these class-locked has broken the entire outfit system to do so.

Gotta say, it's getting hard to defend you for some of these decisions...

Rasande_Robin · February 20

I like this, though nightblade will have the best headpiece in the game. Oh well...

TybaltKaine · February 20

I honestly think this is only the case because they can't figure out how to disconnect the VFX from the style and don't want to muddy the waters.

If the style displays the same VFX as the sets, then there is no way to tell if it is a sorc wearing a NB set or a just a NB in a PVP setting.

I tend to err on the side of incompetence in these situations.

Araneae6537 · February 20

I just hope that 1) the whole outfit system isn’t disrupted, 2) there are not many more styles bound like this, and 3) a generally available style/motif similar to the Nightblade mask is released.

I think this whole class-locked style thing is a huge mistake, but it doesn’t look like ZOS is going to budge on that, so the above is what I will ask for.

I like classes to have different strengths and different feels to play — and I think that’s what most people mean by class identity. Our characters’ identity and appearance, each of us like to design ourselves.

Kendaric · February 20

Well... at least I don't have to worry about having to enter IA anymore. And if the trend continues it's time to vote with my wallet and cancel my subscription.

fizzylu · February 20

tomofhyrule wrote: »

It's telling me that there's a fundamental disconnect between what this developer wants and what players do.

If you ask me, this has been a very obvious problem with ESO for awhile.... and I said it earlier in this thread, but again, I am not surprised that they chose to go this route. Ignoring player opinions and feedback in favor of what they think is best, even when it actually just makes the game worse, is on-brand for them.

I mean, seriously.... I truly love how there's a giant thread filled with people asking for them to remove the red permaglow from Grim Focus and then Zenimax proceeds to release an entire outfit that has an even more obnoxious red permaglow. And this is also on top of the threads about the VFX of newer mounts being too much and causing people to get headaches, etc.... it's honestly just hilarious at this point.

tomofhyrule · February 21

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I honestly think this is only the case because they can't figure out how to disconnect the VFX from the style and don't want to muddy the waters.

If the style displays the same VFX as the sets, then there is no way to tell if it is a sorc wearing a NB set or a just a NB in a PVP setting.

I tend to err on the side of incompetence in these situations.

It can't be that, unfortunately.

Fact 1: No other style set includes VFX. The plainest example here is the Dro-m'Athra motif - all four of the Maw of Lorkhaj sets will give a blue/shadow effect on the weapons, but players can equip all 7 armor slots and weapons in Dro-m'Athra style without having the associated VFX.
Fact 2: The class sets are currently previewable on live and they do not have class restrictions or VFX. That means that not only is it possible to have them unlocked, it was actually a change to lock them and apply the VFX.
Fact 3: The new menu option that they added broke the entire outfit system. It means the dev in charge did not test their changes in the outfit system. They only checked the Collections menu for errors.

I'm not sure why they decided to make that change. I'd hope there's a reason that they want to lock them like this, but so far it really just looks like we have a really vindictive dev who wants to block fashion for certain people, and who is also completely incompetent because they think that styling outfits using the outfit system is a secondary/insignificant part of having a collection of outfit styles.

I do know ZOS sometimes does things to prepare for future content without telling us what's coming because they're not ready to reveal certain things yet. The only thing I can think of is if they're setting it up so that the class sets styles will be linked with the VFX even if we're not wearing the sets to... idk, force us to wear them? I could see them saying that rendering so many models is causing some PvP lag so they could program it so we all end up wearing our class sets so there end up being only 7 variations of player models to render - and that'd also make it easier to see what class people are for the "Kill 20 Templars" quest if we just need to look for yellow glows. But then that fundamentally misunderstands the PvP crowd, who constantly talk about how much money they spend on cosmetics if it'll end up overwriting their style (also they never tested that in one of their Cyro tests, so that's not likely right now at least)

It would be great if we could get some dev interaction here, but so far we're just left with frustration and anger. Yeah, it's only 7 sets out of almost 150+ others we could wear, but the idea of adding restrictions for the first time is just not okay in the first place. Yes, many other MMOs will lock gear/fashion behind specific classes. But there are a lot of people who like ESO because it doesn't do that. We can play any role in any class at a reasonably high level (yes, meta will always ask for specifics, but we're not talking trial WR trifectas here). And we like that ESO doesn't have those restrictions.

Bjergenen · February 26

RIP IA styles

last patch notes before live update and still no changes

Alp · February 27

The new expansion better come with some banger styles to make up for 7 we can't use freely even when unlocked.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · February 27

Is ZOS going to make the Austere Warden Costume restricted only to Wardens while at it?

Probably not, and given that is rather specific to the class (Quite literally by name), and even features a Warden-magic themed summoning animation when you equip it (Regardless of the class you might actually be playing), it seems ridiculous that the Warden costume is given a pass when apparently, class-themed fashion is supposedly going to be restricted to the classes in question!

What I am saying is that this all reeks of a backtrack on what the outfit system was very much intended for: To be able to choose our look; skills, armour weight and everything else be damned.

Edit: Minor spelling and grammar corrections

CoolBlast3 · February 27

Ridiculous that this thread has been open since day 1 of the PTS and yet ZOS hasn't said a single thing about it. Even if y'all intend to go through with this moronic "addition" to the game, at the very least say you hear us overwhelmingly hating this and agree that in the future you won't do it again.

Communicate.

vendeatha · February 27

Just wonderful! Like many other's All that time collecting' Buying the motif's you really want and now a complete waste of time! Thanks very much for this stupid change.

Bjergenen · February 27

i only hope that in future updates they will bravely deal with problem they caused and back off from this idea

Jaimeh · February 27

The only other time they did this was with the Alliance costumes, right? Which it did make sense for those, but then again we can currently outfit, say, a Nord character with the full Imperial style, so it's pretty inconsistent if they are doing this for immersion purposes. Personally, I don't mind it terribly, because I have alts in all classes, and like for them to have their own unique style, but I can see how it would upset players who don't, or who like to use a given style on their non-corresponding character. I wonder if we will get a dev comment on this, they have been known to be notoriously unresponsive in other highly popular threads (like the one for additional outfit slots being character bound, which reached a staggering amount of pages iirc).

Jaraal · February 27

Jaimeh wrote: »

The only other time they did this was with the Alliance costumes, right? Which it did make sense for those, but then again we can currently outfit, say, a Nord character with the full Imperial style, so it's pretty inconsistent if they are doing this for immersion purposes.

There are outfit styles in Imperial City which can only be purchased with tel var, and are bound to the account. So some looks are gated behind playstyles, just like some will be gated behind classes. And many cosmetics are locked to certain races, gender, content type (trial skins, etc.) So this is not really unprecedented.

Can't wait for some upcoming female Bosmer that has cleared all dungeons in the game, won 500 Tales of Tributes matches, killed 1,000 enemy players, and decorated 5 Crown Store only homes with the max 700 items (ESO+) only outfit. Forum posters will be losing their minds.... except for the 100 players that actually earned the style.

sharquez · February 27

That is an awfully specific style whats it gonna be called?

Jaraal · February 27

sharquez wrote: »

That is an awfully specific style whats it gonna be called?

Veblen Garb of Unobtanium.