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"You will not be able to outfit your character in class styles other than your current class."
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Anyammis✭✭✭To be fair, if something is already named "class style", you should assume it is a class specific thing. But if you're advocating against it, then I don't want to ever hear you talk about "class identity" ever. You guys should really make it clear of what you want. I've been hearing about class identity this, class identity that for years now. And now when the game is actively enforcing via appearance, you guys are driven mad.
I love ESO, but the community on this forum are all over the place with their values. Pick one, it's either enforcing class identity with unique feel to them, or class is just a template and everything should be unified.
Except there is a massive difference between a balance discussion and a cosmetic one. We're talking about cosmetics here. Please do not try to rope gameplay balance/combat into the mix when it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. People can be for class identity in combat while wanting variety in cosmetics. As many have said, people are allowed to wear different alliances' cosmetics and even villainous factions symbols and wanting to keep that variety has nothing to do with class identity as a concept but expressing this feels like a drastic change in how cosmetics are handled and against prior precedents. When people say they want their class to feel unique we both know they are talking about how they play in a combat scenario, not what they wear aesthetically. This is not an either or this or that. People expressing they want the cosmetics to be free to all classes and companions are not hypocritical about class balance/a desire for combat variety.PC NA
GM of Eyes of the Queen13 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_player123 wrote: »
Because it's a class design, it would make no sense to be available for everybody. Sadly this game often give everything to everybody so it will probably change. I think it's better when everybody can't have everything.
It reinforce class identity.
If people like a class motif the devs should do similars cloths in other motifs but nothing more.
As someone mentioned previously, when people talk about class identity they mean the skills and abilities. As for "class identities" regarding appearance, I think that ship sailed long ago since we can have anything from orcs in pink dresses with 2H greatsword to sorcerers in heavy armor and pots/buckets on their heads .7 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To be fair, if something is already named "class style", you should assume it is a class specific thing. But if you're advocating against it, then I don't want to ever hear you talk about "class identity" ever. You guys should really make it clear of what you want. I've been hearing about class identity this, class identity that for years now. And now when the game is actively enforcing via appearance, you guys are driven mad.
I love ESO, but the community on this forum are all over the place with their values. Pick one, it's either enforcing class identity with unique feel to them, or class is just a template and everything should be unified.
I'm going to quote your own words, in response to this. Aren't you all for two concepts existing at the same time? It seems you are in this post you made in response to me:And please stop advocating against this idea with the "every single x is y" kind of mentality, because that's very much not what ESO is, right from the beginning. ESO have class specific skill lines, but also universal skill lines that every can access. Both things can exist at the same time, you don't have to choose 1 or another. One is not the upgrade from another or vice versa, they are 2 different tastes of the same aspect.
The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.
After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die6 -
Maythor✭✭✭✭I wouldn't bother trying to argue one way or another .. you can rationalise both sides of the argument as it exists in a made up world, in a video game.
ZOS wishes feedback in the forums generally, and mine is that this addition to class restricted styles will make me less likely to engage in their content.10 -
PrincessOfThieves✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.
After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.
Agreed! Class identity, in my opinion, is about gameplay style and skills, being able to use builds that enhance your class' strengths etc. So for example, as a big fan of the idea of unique class identities, I would like to see classes using different setups and not just the same BiS trial set across all specs, improving class-specific mechanics, stuff like this.7 -
Flaaklypa✭✭✭✭dumb change. plain and simple. Why the developers want to damage even this harmless side of the game I have no idea11 -
Meredy✭✭✭I mean people in real life walk about wearing logos of sports teams, bands and designers that they have no affiliation with other than liking/supporting
It would be more like a player of a sports team wearing the jersey of a rival team.
There is a precedent, BTW, for restricted cosmetics. The Alliance Rider Outfit will only display the colors of that character's alliance. Your DC character does not have the option to say, "I like red, so I'll wear the EP version of this costume".
There are hundreds of styles and costumes. It's fine to have a small handful that are identity-restricted.
Tell me the point to having a restriction vs having no restriction.
There's no point to be made except willfully denying someone's expression of themselves. Why should you care about what other people wear?7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is a precedent, BTW, for restricted cosmetics. The Alliance Rider Outfit will only display the colors of that character's alliance. Your DC character does not have the option to say, "I like red, so I'll wear the EP version of this costume".
Put Azandar in this costume and watch what happens.
Edited by Jaraal on 30 January 2024 16:44RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.5 -
Marronsuisse✭✭✭✭I don't like this, but to be honest 90% of the reason is because I wanted to be able to wear the Nightblade head style on all my characters. It's completely unique afaik, a lower face mask that I've seen people wanting for ages, so it's lame that when we finally get it, we can only use it on one class.
If ZOS gives us more earnable versions of this mask style not tied to Nightblades, I wouldn't care quite so much about class outfit styles being restricted.
...I'd still care a little though because fashion freedom is important to me
(The Nightblade's belt is cool too btw.)7 -
Bo0137✭✭✭✭I am also strongly against it. Styles should be available to every character, regardless of the class. Had it been different from the past (i.e. all sets weights being available at all times, all one handed weapons being available at all times, you being actually allowed to run around half-naked and still getting the armour bonuses), then it would be ok. I mean, ESO's game design has revolved around the concept of prioritizing style over realness. Why change now?-On my shoulder, Ms. Ahvine8 -
Dayhjawk✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno Can we you tell us the reasoning/mindset for this change at least?!4 -
I've been ecstatic over most of the reveals so far, absolutely enthused for this year. I love Morrowind, so Necrom was welcome - and yet, somehow, you've blown it out of the water so far. You guys are awesome.
That said, I'm neither upset nor care, since the class-sets don't appeal to me - but I agree "Class Identity" via fashion is silly.- Nothing stops an EP character from wearing a Covenant motif; an Altmer hiding their face in full Telvanni plate; a healer Outfitting in full-Heavy nor a tank putting on a bathrobe costume. What "identity" is there?
- As a Nightblade main, I rather not walk around and announce to the world I'm a delinquent, so I don't dress as one. I'd not be upset half-an-inch if edgybois want to play pretend while the real Nightblades are walking around unnoticed.
I'm not upset! I'm quite thrilled with everything you folks have announced this year. I can't remember being this excited.
But restricting styles to class seems silly, when you'll only get more players engaged by letting them farm what they want to chase. I'll continue doing IA, but really, just because I like collecting lorebooks & bugs.
Warmest,
The Pariah's Forge is an Orsimer-focused Discord RP Hub: https://discord.gg/KfuWGFDXJC5 -
JakaWild✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.
After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.
Yeah this is just not true. Fashion or style USED to be highly connected to the identity of a class before transmogification became a thing. Being able to look at a character and know just by their style what class they were was a thing.
If i asked you to describe what a Nightblade (rogue archetype) looks like you wouldn't say a heavy armored axe wielding character. You have an image in your head that most people would describe in a very similar way. A very specific style of fashion.Your Cosmetic freedom already exists.You can be a heavy armor "style" rogue. You know what doesn't exist? Unique class styles.
tl:dr Class identity and style/fashion have been connected since dungeons and dragons created those archetypes.0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.
After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.
Yeah this is just not true. Fashion or style USED to be highly connected to the identity of a class before transmogification became a thing. Being able to look at a character and know just by their style what class they were was a thing.
If i asked you to describe what a Nightblade (rogue archetype) looks like you wouldn't say a heavy armored axe wielding character. You have an image in your head that most people would describe in a very similar way. A very specific style of fashion.Your Cosmetic freedom already exists.You can be a heavy armor "style" rogue. You know what doesn't exist? Unique class styles.
tl:dr Class identity and style/fashion have been connected since dungeons and dragons created those archetypes.
USED to is the key word here. That is not how most people feel about fashion in THIS game THIS day. Also, this is not DnD, so I do not see any relevance here. If we were talking about Baldur's Gate, sure.8 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah this is just not true. Fashion or style USED to be highly connected to the identity of a class before transmogification became a thing. Being able to look at a character and know just by their style what class they were was a thing.
If i asked you to describe what a Nightblade (rogue archetype) looks like you wouldn't say a heavy armored axe wielding character. You have an image in your head that most people would describe in a very similar way. A very specific style of fashion.Your Cosmetic freedom already exists.You can be a heavy armor "style" rogue. You know what doesn't exist? Unique class styles.
tl:dr Class identity and style/fashion have been connected since dungeons and dragons created those archetypes.
I strongly disagree... class has very little to do with "fashion". Since I've started with ESO in beta, I've created and played characters who always wear armor based on their culture and not based on their class.
And D&D always had a rather rigid class definition that has become somewhat loose in recent editions. Casters, for example, used to be restricted to cloth/robes. These days casters can use any armor they are proficient in, so if a wizard wants to expend feats for it he can wear full plate and still cast spells.8 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.
After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.
Yeah this is just not true. Fashion or style USED to be highly connected to the identity of a class before transmogification became a thing. Being able to look at a character and know just by their style what class they were was a thing.
If i asked you to describe what a Nightblade (rogue archetype) looks like you wouldn't say a heavy armored axe wielding character. You have an image in your head that most people would describe in a very similar way. A very specific style of fashion.Your Cosmetic freedom already exists.You can be a heavy armor "style" rogue. You know what doesn't exist? Unique class styles.
tl:dr Class identity and style/fashion have been connected since dungeons and dragons created those archetypes.
Your reasoning is flawed. The classes were more unique back then which meant that sometimes (but not always) different sets would work for different classes, and the sets usually had different motifs. There was no choice involved tho, you just wore whatever the meta was much as you do now. Being stuck with a look because it's what happened to go along with the meta gear isn't fashion.
And even then a lot of people covered up with costumes or if they wanted a unique look went with crafted gear and sacrificed a bit of performance. And everyone was in Valkyn Skoria!
Less choice can't really be called more identity.PS4 EU9 -
ColovianHastur✭✭✭Terrible choice. What's next, are Alliance motifs getting restricted to the character alliance? Is the colour red going to be available only to Pact characters, or blue to Covenant and yellow to Dominion? Are Sorcerers, Necromancers, and Arcanists going to be restricted to staves and light armour as their only weapons and armour of choice?
Is the Greymoor style going to be available only to Vampires, or the Worm Cult only to Necros?
Class specific motifs make no sense.Edited by ColovianHastur on 30 January 2024 21:217 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.
After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.
Yeah this is just not true. Fashion or style USED to be highly connected to the identity of a class before transmogification became a thing. Being able to look at a character and know just by their style what class they were was a thing.
If i asked you to describe what a Nightblade (rogue archetype) looks like you wouldn't say a heavy armored axe wielding character. You have an image in your head that most people would describe in a very similar way. A very specific style of fashion.Your Cosmetic freedom already exists.You can be a heavy armor "style" rogue. You know what doesn't exist? Unique class styles.
tl:dr Class identity and style/fashion have been connected since dungeons and dragons created those archetypes.
You are correct concerning RPG's of the past, however, we aren't talking about the history of RPG fashion as it applies to the world at large, we're discussing the term "class identity" as it specifically applies to ESO's forums. When people talk about class identity on the forums, the term is used in reference to skills and combat, not to describe how they want to look.
And many people in this thread are saying that they don't want to go back to archetypes concerning the fashions they are allowed to put on their character. It used to be. It isn't now in this game, and we don't want to return to it. It just isn't something this game needs.
If you asked me to describe a nightblade, I'd have quite a few ideas concerning how one might look, since I don't stick to stereotypes nor feel that I need to. I'm more than happy that this game has moved beyond that stage of the RPG genre, as it was pretty stifling to creativity.
Also, DnD has recently begun to loosen those guidelines, and if you have a good DM who writes their own games, they'll loosen them even more in creative ways that still facilitate good gameplay.Edited by ArchangelIsraphel on 30 January 2024 21:31Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die2 -
JakaWild✭✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »
USED to is the key word here. That is not how most people feel about fashion in THIS game THIS day. Also, this is not DnD, so I do not see any relevance here. If we were talking about Baldur's Gate, sure.
Nah see here's an idea.Release them class locked and then 3-6 months after that put them in the crown store " class unlocked".
Now that's how i like my Fashion scrolls online.That's how modern gamers like it right? or did things USED to be better in gaming?Edited by JakaWild on 30 January 2024 21:290 -
flizomica✭✭✭✭✭One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?
@ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.
The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.Edited by flizomica on 30 January 2024 21:256 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?
@ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.
The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.
that is so frustrating.
miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation and PC EU.
LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
LunaFloraBlossom on pc.5 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_player123 wrote: »
USED to is the key word here. That is not how most people feel about fashion in THIS game THIS day. Also, this is not DnD, so I do not see any relevance here. If we were talking about Baldur's Gate, sure.
Nah see here's an idea.Release them class locked and then 3-6 months after that put them in the crown store " class unlocked".
Now that's how i like my Fashion scrolls online.That's how modern gamers like it right? or did things USED to be better in gaming?
I do not know if they will put "unlock" in the Crown store or not, and this is not the point of this discussion (Also, do not give them any ideas of the sort).
I also do not know what you mean by "or did things USED to be better in gaming?". We are discussing the freedom to choose outfits/mix and match in fashion in THIS game in THIS day, not what other games in this genre used to do or do now. Freedom is what many people like about fashion in ESO,and that is the direction that has been followed for many years. Just look at the pinned Fashion thread.Edited by ESO_player123 on 30 January 2024 21:392 -
SpacemanSpiff1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?
@ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.
The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.
that is hilarious.2 -
BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can see people are upset, but I think time and perspective will enable people to move beyond grief and into acceptance. Everything will be okay.Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)3 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If the style also grants the visual effect, I think it makes more sense that it's class-locked.
Maybe they could just make the visual effect class-locked so that any class can use the nightblade mask, but only nightblades get the red glow for using 5 of the items?PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner6 -
BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭ColovianHastur wrote: »Terrible choice. What's next, are Alliance motifs getting restricted to the character alliance? Is the colour red going to be available only to Pact characters, or blue to Covenant and yellow to Dominion? Are Sorcerers, Necromancers, and Arcanists going to be restricted to staves and light armour as their only weapons and armour of choice?
Is the Greymoor style going to be available only to Vampires, or the Worm Cult only to Necros?
Class specific motifs make no sense.
Whsts next? What's next?? None of those things.
What's with the wild speculation and drama, this isn't a retrospective change to previous styles. They're introducing one element of exclusivity and class flavour, and people are acting like they're being shackled in prison garb. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 4 February 2024 19:29Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)2 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »If the style also grants the visual effect, I think it makes more sense that it's class-locked.
Maybe they could just make the visual effect class-locked so that any class can use the nightblade mask, but only nightblades get the red glow for using 5 of the items?
What would be nice I think is to have a separate new slot for something like "auras" that would allow adding particle/glow effects to the outfits. This way those who like them could use them and those that do not could completely ignore them.
Note that I'm not talking about the existing outfits with floating orbs and such. That slot would be specifically for particles and glow.7
