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New Rules for Attunables
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tchngmr✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks
Agreed.
Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.
I don't like being called entitled because I want to play the game in the way it was intended. It was possible to get your home to have all craftable sets before the change, now it is not unless you are a whale.
These were intended for guild halls. So yes, it's entitled to demand them to be cheaper for you to have them PERSONALLY.
They were meant for hundreds in a guild to work together to get.2 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.
90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.
You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.
The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.
Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.
If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.
Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.
Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.
Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.
I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.
1 in 3.33 would be 30%
That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.
While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.
These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)
Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".
So, sorry. I don't buy it.
I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.
Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.
Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.
Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.
Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.
Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!
The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.
He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.
The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.
(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)
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The market is currently exploding because of the grand master stations. What I am suggesting would return it to normal. They were selling for 250k before. They are selling for 650k a pop now and growing out of control. People can still buy individual attunables and sell them with my suggestion. Besides I don't see you suggesting anything else other than the status quo, which you admit you stand to gain from. Which is to my friend's point. I should be able to buy these attunables for myself and have a full set without making this game a full time job.
[edited to remove quote]
I listed 28 of them at 600k 2 days ago... none have sold. Something doesn't add up. All 3 of my trading guilds are in VERY high traffic areas.
The stations are more expensive because the materials are more expensive.
Your suggestion in your OP would make most of the master writs I get useless, as there would be nothing to sell of value with the vouchers that I get. I would make more gold destroying the master writs and just selling the unused materials. Gold Clothing, Hakeijo Enchanting, and Perfect Roe Provisioning are already not worth doing, this would add all durable ones to that list, leaving us with only alchemy and enchanting that are worth doing.Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks
Agreed.
Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.
Could not agree more. This change would decimate the writ voucher market, removing a major source of income in the game for me, and removing viable gameplay options that I enjoy doing.
I keep hearing that materials are more expensive but also a ton of people saying that the gold mat market was destroyed with the change. And it's not entitled to want to get sets for the game for your private home. What's entitled is selling for so much. I just want to be able to play the game in a way I like. It's not really possible to do that rn because of the skyrocket in price.
It used to be, but people decided to send the price to the moon exactly when crafting changed.
I did it for my house. I literally bought NOTHING from other players, no materials, no master writs, no attunable stations. I just did my daily writs, used the rewards to do master writs, bought the tables myself with vouchers.
That method has literally not changed in the least.
And I've been able to sell hundreds, if not thousands of extra stations, so I can buy things I don't want to grind out, such as furnishing plans, motifs, and style pages.
Your suggestion would take away my method of "playing the game in a way I like".
Edit: The game has a fully open market, with the decentralized system, you can't manipulate the market. They sell for what they'll sell for. Prices must be coming down from "650k" a station, as none of mine listed at 600k have sold yet. Probably going to have to list them for lower to move them.
100% you can manipulate the markets. It's happening all the time. TTC allows this.1 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks
Agreed.
Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.
I don't like being called entitled because I want to play the game in the way it was intended. It was possible to get your home to have all craftable sets before the change, now it is not unless you are a whale.
These were intended for guild halls. So yes, it's entitled to demand them to be cheaper for you to have them PERSONALLY.
They were meant for hundreds in a guild to work together to get.
Except I was able to get them personally before and now I cannot. People are just being greedy.1 -
tchngmr✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks
Agreed.
Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.
I don't like being called entitled because I want to play the game in the way it was intended. It was possible to get your home to have all craftable sets before the change, now it is not unless you are a whale.
These were intended for guild halls. So yes, it's entitled to demand them to be cheaper for you to have them PERSONALLY.
They were meant for hundreds in a guild to work together to get.
Except I was able to get them personally before and now I cannot. People are just being greedy.
It's greedy to make a small profit over the value of the materials used to get the vouchers from doing the master writs? For the time, effort, energy to do all the research, get the motifs, etc...?
Got it.
"I don't appreciate being called greedy...
" 2 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks
Agreed.
Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.
I don't like being called entitled because I want to play the game in the way it was intended. It was possible to get your home to have all craftable sets before the change, now it is not unless you are a whale.
These were intended for guild halls. So yes, it's entitled to demand them to be cheaper for you to have them PERSONALLY.
They were meant for hundreds in a guild to work together to get.
Except I was able to get them personally before and now I cannot. People are just being greedy.
It's greedy to make a small profit over the value of the materials used to get the vouchers from doing the master writs? For the time, effort, energy to do all the research, get the motifs, etc...?
Got it.
"I don't appreciate being called greedy... "
It went up in price. It was 250k and now it's 600k. It more than doubled. People are being greedy.1 -
sleepy_worm✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.2 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
I would need to get upt o necrom because I can't just get summerset, but i need summerset which is $20.00. Also it isn't supposed to be a full time job to be able to get this done. Do you know how much farming I would have to do. How much time and in game money I would have to spend on just getting the materials to cheaply power level the crafting on these toons? Then there's getting the skyshards which is also a ton of time. Just one full alt account is going to takes at least weeks to months to set up with new people.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
I would need to get upt o necrom because I can't just get summerset, but i need summerset which is $20.00. Also it isn't supposed to be a full time job to be able to get this done. Do you know how much farming I would have to do. How much time and in game money I would have to spend on just getting the materials to cheaply power level the crafting on these toons? Then there's getting the skyshards which is also a ton of time. Just one full alt account is going to takes at least weeks to months to set up with new people.
You need ZERO! skyshards to do max level crafting on a character that just does crafting. Funnel the intricates from your characters that are doing writs to those that you are leveling. Anybody who is serious about crafting would know this... and only those serious about crafting would have any need to get all the attunable stations for their own personal use, when practically every single active guild in the game has them all already.
Summerset you can buy with crowns, either from a sub on your main, gifting to your alt (how I did it), through a crown exchange, or with your own money through a crown sale.
I agree, less hyperbole would help.Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points1 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
Let's say I just crown gifted myself summerset after spendind the $12.00 on two extra accounts. That is minimum a 5500 crown pack and a 3000 crown pack since it would be 7k crowns to get it for two new accounts. On sale that is almost $60.00 extra. As opposed to the $40.00 I would spend on just getting current ESO. All of this is on mega sale. Then I would have to do all the crafting, gearing of the toons with some sort of training gear to get levels while skyshard hunting so I can get them to spend the skill points for crafting for 16 characters. You are talking a massive investment in time and energy just to make some in game money. I just want to enjoy the game. If I did all of this I would be not enjoying the game. I would just be making a ton of money. And the prices of the stations is going up and up and so are the prices of mats. Having attunables for my home is a simple thing. Heck, it should be free. But at minimum it is going to take me months to a year or so to get them all.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks
Agreed.
Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.
I don't like being called entitled because I want to play the game in the way it was intended. It was possible to get your home to have all craftable sets before the change, now it is not unless you are a whale.
These were intended for guild halls. So yes, it's entitled to demand them to be cheaper for you to have them PERSONALLY.
They were meant for hundreds in a guild to work together to get.
Except I was able to get them personally before and now I cannot. People are just being greedy.
It's greedy to make a small profit over the value of the materials used to get the vouchers from doing the master writs? For the time, effort, energy to do all the research, get the motifs, etc...?
Got it.
"I don't appreciate being called greedy... "
It went up in price. It was 250k and now it's 600k. It more than doubled. People are being greedy.
They were 250k when materials were half their current price 2 years ago. Now they're 600k (although mine still haven't sold, so more like 550k?) when demand was up a bit for the new arrangements, and they're settling to being right where the material prices are. Again, I've sold a LOT of attunable stations... I know the pricing "friend".
(Also, I think their joke went over your head... since you said "I don't like being called entitled..." multiple times... and they just retorted with the same line to your insult)Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points1 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
I would need to get upt o necrom because I can't just get summerset, but i need summerset which is $20.00. Also it isn't supposed to be a full time job to be able to get this done. Do you know how much farming I would have to do. How much time and in game money I would have to spend on just getting the materials to cheaply power level the crafting on these toons? Then there's getting the skyshards which is also a ton of time. Just one full alt account is going to takes at least weeks to months to set up with new people.
You need ZERO! skyshards to do max level crafting on a character that just does crafting. Funnel the intricates from your characters that are doing writs to those that you are leveling. Anybody who is serious about crafting would know this... and only those serious about crafting would have any need to get all the attunable stations for their own personal use, when practically every single active guild in the game has them all already.
Summerset you can buy with crowns, either from a sub on your main, gifting to your alt (how I did it), through a crown exchange, or with your own money through a crown sale.
I agree, less hyperbole would help.
See the post I just made. DO you expect me to spend all my skill points I get from leveling on JUST the skills? That would make this much harder, and longer.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
I would need to get upt o necrom because I can't just get summerset, but i need summerset which is $20.00. Also it isn't supposed to be a full time job to be able to get this done. Do you know how much farming I would have to do. How much time and in game money I would have to spend on just getting the materials to cheaply power level the crafting on these toons? Then there's getting the skyshards which is also a ton of time. Just one full alt account is going to takes at least weeks to months to set up with new people.
You need ZERO! skyshards to do max level crafting on a character that just does crafting. Funnel the intricates from your characters that are doing writs to those that you are leveling. Anybody who is serious about crafting would know this... and only those serious about crafting would have any need to get all the attunable stations for their own personal use, when practically every single active guild in the game has them all already.
Summerset you can buy with crowns, either from a sub on your main, gifting to your alt (how I did it), through a crown exchange, or with your own money through a crown sale.
I agree, less hyperbole would help.
See the post I just made. DO you expect me to spend all my skill points I get from leveling on JUST the skills? That would make this much harder, and longer.
No, you level them to 50, taking normal skills, use the free respec scroll you get from level up rewards and turn them into crafters... again, something anybody serious about crafting would know.Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
Heck, it should be free.
And there it is... "should be free". The ultimate in entitlement.
Join a guild, they have them for free.
Edited by tmbrinks on 3 January 2024 02:21Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points3 -
DarthCuddlefluff✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
Heck, it should be free.
And there it is... "should be free". The ultimate in entitlement.
Join a guild, they have them for free.
I am going to assume you are engaging in bad faith because the points you are making are stuff I have answered again and again. [Snip]
[Edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on 3 January 2024 15:441 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.
Alt accounts are $5 during sales. I understand that you don't want to do writs or spend money on the game, but your posting would benefit from a bit less hyperbole.
Heck, it should be free.
And there it is... "should be free". The ultimate in entitlement.
Join a guild, they have them for free.
I am going to assume you are engaging in bad faith because the points you are making are stuff I have answered again and again. [Snip].
Nope, just getting frustrated because you want to destroy the "way I play" when viable options have been given, and you continue to repeat the same incorrect statements. Promoting conspiracy theories about market manipulation, all so you can have your niche thing "for free" now. If anybody has been engaging in bad faith, it has been you friend.
I feel the requirement to reply to claims that would destroy options for playing the game... because I haven't in the past and ZoS has come in and "everybody wants this" and made drastic, sweeping changes, removing things from the game, all because me, and many others, were like "this is so absurd, ZoS would never do that, it'd destroy ________"... and then they do it. So yes, I'm going to call out proposals that would decimate parts of the crafting economy, because I'm invested in it and know how it works.
I hope you have a good day, [Snip]. I've said my piece, been attacked by multiple players over it, not worth it, it's a game. Good bye.
[Edited quote and for removed content]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on 3 January 2024 15:44Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger65,385 achievement points0 -
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