New Rules for Attunables

DarthCuddlefluff

Hey Since there are an ever increasing amount of sets and at this point we have the grand master crafting stations I propose that they should work differently than they did in the past and it should be done soon because things are getting out of hand. Because of the addition of the stations the price of attunables went from 200-250kish to around 600k a pop. Doing the math here, in order to get all attunables for your new grand master station you need to be a whale. It takes 4 stations to make a set. 600,000 x 4 is 2,400,000 and if you multiply that by 77 you get 184,800,000 gold in at current rates to buy them all. On top of that you need 6000 writs for the stations themselves which is quite a bit considering what they need. This isn't even accounting for the price constantly raising for these things, becoming higher and higher every day since attunables are important, especially to guilds. AND that there will be more with every area DLC, two of which some out every year. It's just way too much.

My solution is simple. Change how attunables work. Sure, allow people to get individual ones they want just one or two sets, but sell a seperate item for the grand master stations. I think that the grand master stations should be account unlocked furnishings once you buy them and that you should be able to buy "attunable crystals" which are not tradable for, say, 100 writ vouchers a piece that allow you to walk up to any station on a set crafting area and attune the crystal to the entire set. Not just for blacksmithing or something, but the whole set. And that those, once attuned disappear from your inventory and also become account unlocks for your grand master crafting stations. This would allow people to earn their stations by doing writs alone and would make it much better for either guilds or individuals to gather these things.

I think that considering the shockingly high price of the grand master crafting stations in writs, the shockingly high, ever increasing amount of writs you would have to do to get all of the stations, given that you couldn't trade these proposed crystals, the fact that crafting mats are always going up too, and the fact that outright buying stations from the traders is getting worse by the minute with no signs of slowing, 100 writ vouchers for the set is a reasonable price, if not a little high and in need of lowering at a future date.

tmbrinks

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day. EDIT FOR CLARITY (I'M TALKING ABOUT ALL REWARDS FOR WRITS... NOT JUST GOLD) - Also once prices were updated it's closer to 1.5m per day as jewelry upgrade materials have fallen precipitously the last few weeks.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

DarthCuddlefluff

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

LunaFlora

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

how do you manage to get even close to 2 million per day?
doing the daily writs of all my 20 characters only gives me ~100k gold.

tmbrinks

LunaFlora wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

how do you manage to get even close to 2 million per day?
doing the daily writs of all my 20 characters only gives me ~100k gold.

I'm talking about the value of all the rewards. The gold materials, the master writs, the surveys, the returned materials.

DarthCuddlefluff

tmbrinks wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

how do you manage to get even close to 2 million per day?
doing the daily writs of all my 20 characters only gives me ~100k gold.

I'm talking about the value of all the rewards. The gold materials, the master writs, the surveys, the returned materials.

How many surveys, master writs and gold mats are you getting back? Also the returned mats don't even come close to covering the cost of what was spent. Am I going about this all wrong? Do you know something that I do not?

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

DarthCuddlefluff

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

how do you manage to get even close to 2 million per day?
doing the daily writs of all my 20 characters only gives me ~100k gold.

I'm talking about the value of all the rewards. The gold materials, the master writs, the surveys, the returned materials.

How many surveys, master writs and gold mats are you getting back? Also the returned mats don't even come close to covering the cost of what was spent. Am I going about this all wrong? Do you know something that I do not?

I've tracked over 300k writs I've done. Spreadsheet linked in my signature (Here as well since I know they don't show up on mobile.

Surveys drop 1 in 8. 6 crafts with surveys, 120 chances means about 15 per day. Master writs vary between about 10% and 15% depending on knowledge, so another 15 or so a day. And gold materials are 30 percent, 5 crafts that can drop, so another 30 or so a day.

With collecting surveys, you have a very small net loss of materials.

(Note: This is all on PC/NA, your server may vary in profit. Also, with updating prices as I hadn't in a few weeks, it's only about 1.5m per day, since jewelry upgrade materials have fallen precipitously in the last few weeks)

MonkLoHan

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

You may want to go back and check your math on this. Daily writs only averages about 5,000 gold per character per day. That is 100,000 gold per day with 20 characters. How are you coming up with 2 million?

tmbrinks

MonkLoHan wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

You may want to go back and check your math on this. Daily writs only averages about 5,000 gold per character per day. That is 100,000 gold per day with 20 characters. How are you coming up with 2 million?

As stated later... this is all rewards from writs...

Honest question... do people really think some of us do all these writs just for the small amount of gold we get? The value in them has forever been in the surveys/gold mats/master writs...

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

tmbrinks

MonkLoHan wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

You may want to go back and check your math on this. Daily writs only averages about 5,000 gold per character per day. That is 100,000 gold per day with 20 characters. How are you coming up with 2 million?

Not that Dolgubon's is exactly accurate, but 60 days of writs (and I've missed a few days in there, because doing all 20 for 60 days would give 1200 of each done, so I've only done them about 3/4ths of the days) gives a value of 133m well more than 2m a day.

DarthCuddlefluff

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

DarthCuddlefluff

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter. Type /outputwritstats in chat. (Or click on the show stats button on the status bar when you're doing them). It will include all writs done, so if you've done a whole bunch not at maximum level ever, your drop rates will be lower.

There is a reason I spend the time to collect and look at the data, and that is to provide those solid data points. There have been dozens if not hundreds of other players who have "felt" they didn't get these drops, but it's always anecdotal, hearsay, or turns out they were doing most of their writs at tier 1. Humans have a psychological predisposition to catastrophizing situations and only seeing "bad", so I hope to actually help out the community by actually collecting data.

I have a VERY hard time believing that the game is coded in such a way that different players actually get different drop rates, which would increase the amount of code by magnitudes for what purpose?

Long story short. Yes. I firmly believe that if you did a controlled tracking of your drop rates of doing maximum level writs, you would see drop rates similar to those in my data (for gold materials and surveys, master writs depend upon trait/motif knowledge so there are tons more variables there).

wolfie1.0.

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

DarthCuddlefluff

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

FlopsyPrince

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!

The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.

He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.

The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.

(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)

DarthCuddlefluff

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!

The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.

He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.

The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.

(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)

Thank you I didn't know how to say that.

DarthCuddlefluff

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!

The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.

He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.

The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.

(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip

[snip]

[snip]

The market is currently exploding because of the grand master stations. What I am suggesting would return it to normal. They were selling for 250k before. They are selling for 650k a pop now and growing out of control. People can still buy individual attunables and sell them with my suggestion. Besides I don't see you suggesting anything else other than the status quo, which you admit you stand to gain from. Which is to my friend's point. I should be able to buy these attunables for myself and have a full set without making this game a full time job.

[edited to remove quote]

FlopsyPrince

I have no idea how hard writs are right now, though I do notice my past pricing of 300 or 500 per write seems somewhat low now given how quick they sell.

I would love to get use out of the crafting tables given out when I last played, but the hill to climb to reach a fully kitted out set is much too high to even seem achievable. Perhaps it is doable after 120 days (or whatever was the exact estimate earlier) but I remain skeptical of that. I just keep piling up writs, like most other things.

Whatever the current situation, nothing in game is compelling enough to me to get me to seek such a set of tables. Though I do appreciate that I could fit them in one of my houses, even the Snow Globe home, now.

Nestor

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

tchngmr

Nestor wrote: »

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

Agreed.

Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

DarthCuddlefluff

tchngmr wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

Agreed.

Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.

Hey friend, there is no need to characterize me that way. I explained why it wouldn't destroy any markets.

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!

The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.

He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.

The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.

(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip

[snip]

[snip]

The market is currently exploding because of the grand master stations. What I am suggesting would return it to normal. They were selling for 250k before. They are selling for 650k a pop now and growing out of control. People can still buy individual attunables and sell them with my suggestion. Besides I don't see you suggesting anything else other than the status quo, which you admit you stand to gain from. Which is to my friend's point. I should be able to buy these attunables for myself and have a full set without making this game a full time job.

[edited to remove quote]

I listed 28 of them at 600k 2 days ago... none have sold. Something doesn't add up. All 3 of my trading guilds are in VERY high traffic areas.

The stations are more expensive because the materials are more expensive.

Your suggestion in your OP would make most of the master writs I get useless, as there would be nothing to sell of value with the vouchers that I get. I would make more gold destroying the master writs and just selling the unused materials. Gold Clothing, Hakeijo Enchanting, and Perfect Roe Provisioning are already not worth doing, this would add all durable ones to that list, leaving us with only alchemy and enchanting that are worth doing.

tchngmr wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

Agreed.

Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.

Could not agree more. This change would decimate the writ voucher market, removing a major source of income in the game for me, and removing viable gameplay options that I enjoy doing.

DarthCuddlefluff

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!

The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.

He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.

The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.

(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip

[snip]

[snip]

The market is currently exploding because of the grand master stations. What I am suggesting would return it to normal. They were selling for 250k before. They are selling for 650k a pop now and growing out of control. People can still buy individual attunables and sell them with my suggestion. Besides I don't see you suggesting anything else other than the status quo, which you admit you stand to gain from. Which is to my friend's point. I should be able to buy these attunables for myself and have a full set without making this game a full time job.

[edited to remove quote]

I listed 28 of them at 600k 2 days ago... none have sold. Something doesn't add up. All 3 of my trading guilds are in VERY high traffic areas.

The stations are more expensive because the materials are more expensive.

Your suggestion in your OP would make most of the master writs I get useless, as there would be nothing to sell of value with the vouchers that I get. I would make more gold destroying the master writs and just selling the unused materials. Gold Clothing, Hakeijo Enchanting, and Perfect Roe Provisioning are already not worth doing, this would add all durable ones to that list, leaving us with only alchemy and enchanting that are worth doing.

tchngmr wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

Agreed.

Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.

Could not agree more. This change would decimate the writ voucher market, removing a major source of income in the game for me, and removing viable gameplay options that I enjoy doing.

I keep hearing that materials are more expensive but also a ton of people saying that the gold mat market was destroyed with the change. And it's not entitled to want to get sets for the game for your private home. What's entitled is selling for so much. I just want to be able to play the game in a way I like. It's not really possible to do that rn because of the skyrocket in price.
It used to be, but people decided to send the price to the moon exactly when crafting changed.

DarthCuddlefluff

tchngmr wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

Agreed.

Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.

I don't like being called entitled because I want to play the game in the way it was intended. It was possible to get your home to have all craftable sets before the change, now it is not unless you are a whale.

tmbrinks

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tchngmr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Daily writs on an account (20 characters) nets a profit of about 2 million gold per day.

90 days of doing writs and you can get every single attunable station in the game for your own personal guild hall seems extremely reasonable.

You already can earn your stations by doing your writs alone. I didn't buy any master writs to complete my entire collection of attunable stations (in fact, I sell nearly half of the master writs I get because they aren't worth it to do), and I can sell them regularly.

The stations have gone up by that factor, because the materials have gone up by that much as well. It's general inflation.

Yes, they cost 2.5x as much, but you can get 2.5x as much for harvesting raw materials, so the time spent is exactly the same.

If an entire guild can't get donations for the 3,000 writ vouchers that are needed for the new attunable stations every 6 months, that guild needs to do some outreach to their members, as that is a pathetically small number to get from a group of 50-500 players. I literally get that in less than a month by myself, a larger group should have zero issues.

Yeah I don't have the money to buy 10 extra character slots nor the time or patience to level up 20 toons to do crafting and get them all the skills. That is a TON of investment. 90 days of writs to get attunables seems extremely unreasonable to me. And I have no idea how you are getting 2 mil from 20 toons. If I am lucky I get 2-3 gold mats from 10.

Then you aren't doing your writs at max level. It's a 30% (25% for jewelry, but about a 20% chance of double drop, gives about the same 30%) drop chance per writ (BS/WW/Cloth/Ench/Jewelry), which means you should get an average of 1.5 per character per day.

Yes, it should be an investment to get every single attunable station for your own personal house. So either invest, or reward those that do invest.

I am doing them at level 10s and jewelery 5 (since they changed it to that). I get mostly 1-2 gold mats every day from 10 toons. This is consistent though months. Unless my account has some metadata I don't know about attached to it lowering drop chances or something crazy like that I don't think that those are the odds.

1 in 3.33 would be 30%

That's the drop rate. This is just in Update 40. 6+ years of data in the spreadsheet says the same thing.

While I can't help but to applaud your dedication in writing this stuff down, just because you get that doesn't mean everyone does.

These are statistically relevant sample sizes. I am extremely confident that these are the drop rates. (I teach mathematics, I know how to do statistical analysis of data sets)

Show me your data, not anecdotes, actual data. Nobody who has ever challenged it has shown any statistically relevant data... just "feelings".

So, sorry. I don't buy it.

I appreciate your insistence to look at solid data points, I really do. But I do not have the time or patience to write out this data because I am a gamer and not a scientist. Regardless I think you are making the fatal mistake of assuming that everyone has the same drop rate. Besides, just telling me that I actually AM making boatloads of cash when I am not just isn't an argument. Like what are you getting at, that I really do make boatloads of money and am lying? If I did then I wouldn't be on here complaining. I asked if you knew something that I didn't and it seems like you don't, no offense. Although I am interested now in what you used to chart this data because looking at it, it seems like you used some addon I don't know about. Can I get the name of it? Maybe I could prove it after all.

Natural rng varations aside. Tmbanks's data is revelant, and accurate.

Yes data is going to have variations due to rng and sample sizes. But his data set and sample size is massive compared to most I have seen around.

Unless you believe that zos has programmed rng drop rates on a per account level the drop rates are all the same.

Oh and a side note... if you really want fast returns on daily writs... grab a second or 3rd account. During sales you can get 8 character slots for less than eso plus. Even adding in summerset on top of that, it's more cost effective.

Oh so that's how you make infinite money. Simply spend a ton of money irl. Got it.

Selling Crowns is quicker is a quicker way to make gold!

The stats guy here has been opposing changes for a long time. I took a break here for a year and he is still arguing the same things. Yes "the stats prove it" but others don't find the same experience.

He is also far more dedicated at crafting than most of us. Some of us don't want the game to be a full second job. Doing writs on 18 characters, back a year ago when I was last playing strongly, was quite tedious even with the LazyWritCrafter addon.

The problem is not "can you make it if you make the game your job" but rather "what makes the game more fun". The latter gets lost for some.

(I have dipped my toe back in for a year of ESO+)

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip

[snip]

[snip]

The market is currently exploding because of the grand master stations. What I am suggesting would return it to normal. They were selling for 250k before. They are selling for 650k a pop now and growing out of control. People can still buy individual attunables and sell them with my suggestion. Besides I don't see you suggesting anything else other than the status quo, which you admit you stand to gain from. Which is to my friend's point. I should be able to buy these attunables for myself and have a full set without making this game a full time job.

[edited to remove quote]

I listed 28 of them at 600k 2 days ago... none have sold. Something doesn't add up. All 3 of my trading guilds are in VERY high traffic areas.

The stations are more expensive because the materials are more expensive.

Your suggestion in your OP would make most of the master writs I get useless, as there would be nothing to sell of value with the vouchers that I get. I would make more gold destroying the master writs and just selling the unused materials. Gold Clothing, Hakeijo Enchanting, and Perfect Roe Provisioning are already not worth doing, this would add all durable ones to that list, leaving us with only alchemy and enchanting that are worth doing.

tchngmr wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Collecting all the stations for my own home as never been a goal of mine. Between my guilds and at least one addon that provide a guild hall with all the stations, no need to. I just donate some writs/gold to the guild banks

Agreed.

Yet you have some here who feel entitled to it, and would be willing to decimate an entire market for their benefit.

Could not agree more. This change would decimate the writ voucher market, removing a major source of income in the game for me, and removing viable gameplay options that I enjoy doing.

I keep hearing that materials are more expensive but also a ton of people saying that the gold mat market was destroyed with the change. And it's not entitled to want to get sets for the game for your private home. What's entitled is selling for so much. I just want to be able to play the game in a way I like. It's not really possible to do that rn because of the skyrocket in price.
It used to be, but people decided to send the price to the moon exactly when crafting changed.

I did it for my house. I literally bought NOTHING from other players, no materials, no master writs, no attunable stations. I just did my daily writs, used the rewards to do master writs, bought the tables myself with vouchers.

That method has literally not changed in the least.

And I've been able to sell hundreds, if not thousands of extra stations, so I can buy things I don't want to grind out, such as furnishing plans, motifs, and style pages.

Your suggestion would take away my method of "playing the game in a way I like".

Edit: The game has a fully open market, with the decentralized system, you can't manipulate the market. They sell for what they'll sell for. Prices must be coming down from "650k" a station, as none of mine listed at 600k have sold yet. Probably going to have to list them for lower to move them.