Warden Ice Skill replace

yadibroz

They should remove ice skill to someone else and make a new class with most ice skill and they can even copy the entire ice skill tree from warden and put it on the new class so as example make a ice class like lightning and fire from dragonknight and Sorcerer and if they do that it will make sense but for now ice don't fit with warden.

Do you agree?

yadibroz

To give it to someone else i mean

LunaFlora

i doubt zos would remove an entire skill line from a class.
but if they did, what do you want them to replace Winter's Embrace with?

OBJnoob

Ice absolutely fits with Warden. They do nature magic. They have animals, plants, and ice.

Artim_X

I disagree. Also, ice is an inherent aspect of the class' identity.

Araneae6537

I would have rather cyromancer been a separate class. It feels like warden tries to encompass ranger, druid, and cryomancer archetypes and so can’t fully be any one. But it wouldn’t be right to make such a drastic class change unless people were also give the option to change class (and for free for wardens) as many have no doubt created a warden character to be an ice mage.

Icy_Waffles

No… I think warden being a balance between nature and ice themed really fits. I think if they updated somewhat of how ice damage works it would make warden become what you may be looking to play.

Soarora

No thanks. Not without a class change token anyways. I love my wardens as they are, I’d consider quitting if they get fundamentally changed or nerfed.

Erickson9610

Every class has something they do better than everyone else. You could argue that Sorcerers are more proficient in Conjuration, or Dragonknights are more proficient in pyromancy Destruction magic.

In this case, it's Warden who is most proficient in cyromancy Destruction magic. That doesn't necessarily mean that no one besides Wardens can use frost magic, though.

OBJnoob

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

No… I think warden being a balance between nature and ice themed really fits. I think if they updated somewhat of how ice damage works it would make warden become what you may be looking to play.

Not that I disagree with you... But it may be helps your point... Ice is part of nature.

What do you suppose druids did in the winter? Hibernate?

SandandStars

Ice is a perfect complement to Warden’s interesting offensive tree— It takes an Ice Age for cliff racers or shalks to actually reach an enemy (in pvp).

This is why those who play Warden in pvp are either clairvoyant and know exactly where the enemy will be in 9 seconds, or else they just slap the crap out of you with dizzy and spam polar wind and if shalks hit you neat but it don’t matter.

yadibroz

LunaFlora wrote: »

i doubt zos would remove an entire skill line from a class.
but if they did, what do you want them to replace Winter's Embrace with?

Keep the entire skill and name just transfter it to a new class that can have all ice skills like sorceress and dk and maybe make a skill tree for warden that has to do with more insect and water and tree.

yadibroz

So no one want a class that has all ice skills like sorceress and dk?

LunaFlora

we already have warden so we don't need another ice class.

and a water skill line for warden wouldn't very different, ice is just solid water.

MindOfTheSwarm

I can understand the logic since Warden’s are linked to Vvardenfell, which has no ice areas. However, I don’t think this would be a wise decision. The class is the class and that’s that.

On a side note, if they did say a Witch class in the future. This could tie into Solstheim and some of the skills could be Fryss Witch inspired. But this might upset people if it’s replaced Warden as the Ice class. If a theoretical Witch class had a mix of elemental options then it wouldn’t be as bad. But how would you differentiate the play style?
Warden Frost builds focus on Chilled primarily with added burst through Shalks.
If a Witch were added, any Frost style gameplay would have to be different. Perhaps a channeled DoT similar to Vampiric Drain but more powerful as a primary DPS skill. Maybe, a Frost based DoT execute. A Frost Atronach perhaps as an ULT. This would at least separate it from Warden. But then you would also need to account for other elements too so it doesn’t step on Warden toes too much.

SandandStars

@MindOfTheSwarm - LOVE the idea of a Witch class!

Sadly, I suspect Arcanist probably will be the last new class. The trajectory of overall game stability/quality suggests it’s winding down…

yadibroz

LunaFlora wrote: »

we already have warden so we don't need another ice class.

and a water skill line for warden wouldn't very different, ice is just solid water.

I take water over ice for warden

yadibroz

SandandStars wrote: »

@MindOfTheSwarm - LOVE the idea of a Witch class!

Sadly, I suspect Arcanist probably will be the last new class. The trajectory of overall game stability/quality suggests it’s winding down…

We need more classes,more weapons, rework warden and necromancer and a fourth skill tree.

Kalthea

Seems like everyone has forgotten that Solstheim exists, which is definitely part of the province of Morrowind, and is exceptionally themed around being a winter-covered island, though arguably belongs more to the Nords than the Dunmer.

Honestly, I would rather they change the bear pet to a Kwama Warrior so that the entire pet line could be Morrowind themed, though in its current state you would also call Warden the "Ebonheart Pact Class"

LunaFlora

Kalthea wrote: »

Seems like everyone has forgotten that Solstheim exists, which is definitely part of the province of Morrowind, and is exceptionally themed around being a winter-covered island, though arguably belongs more to the Nords than the Dunmer.

Honestly, I would rather they change the bear pet to a Kwama Warrior so that the entire pet line could be Morrowind themed, though in its current state you would also call Warden the "Ebonheart Pact Class"

it's definitely a part of Skyrim during the second era.

valenwood_vegan

I mean get the logic behind this idea, but I personally think it's fine that warden isn't quite "perfect" and that their skill lines are perhaps drawing from some different aspects of what one might expect from a ranger or a druid.

But I think on a practical level, fundamentally altering an existing class by removing an entire skill line (and replacing it with...?) would not be very popular, to put it mildly.

This is not to say that I'd be against adding like... some kind of class with a strong elemental focus in the future... but I certainly wouldn't want it done at the cost of ripping apart a class that many have played and enjoyed for years.

Plus, the fun of a new class is that it's new - having it inherit an existing skill line would be pretty underwhelming imo.

OtarTheMad

I wouldn’t mind it that way maybe we can get a real Ice Mage type class down the road but I doubt ZOS would do it.

The only thing I don’t like about Warden is in order to prepare for the ice tank skill line they made Frost Staff a tank weapon. They should have left that as is and introduced a magicka tanking staff like Alteration Staff with its own tanking skills.

yadibroz

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I wouldn’t mind it that way maybe we can get a real Ice Mage type class down the road but I doubt ZOS would do it.

The only thing I don’t like about Warden is in order to prepare for the ice tank skill line they made Frost Staff a tank weapon. They should have left that as is and introduced a magicka tanking staff like Alteration Staff with its own tanking skills.

That is better for sure

Hottytotz

Sadly ice line is the only warden line I really like. I dont mind animal companions line but the animations really throw you off after you realize from all of the animals in the world they are ALL from dark elf island???? I hate the jelly fish following me around 24/7 and i wish shalks were just a generic explosion(ice even) instead of beetles jumping out of the ground ever 3s.

Id like it either to be all about ice or yes id have to agree remove the ice line and give it to sorcerers or something to integrate into their dark magic line etc. Dark magic for sorc is arguably the most useless outside of shards.

yadibroz

Hottytotz wrote: »

Sadly ice line is the only warden line I really like. I dont mind animal companions line but the animations really throw you off after you realize from all of the animals in the world they are ALL from dark elf island???? I hate the jelly fish following me around 24/7 and i wish shalks were just a generic explosion(ice even) instead of beetles jumping out of the ground ever 3s.

Id like it either to be all about ice or yes id have to agree remove the ice line and give it to sorcerers or something to integrate into their dark magic line etc. Dark magic for sorc is arguably the most useless outside of shards.

I feel the same, like wish have more ice skill for fun like dragonknight.

Rektadon

Well a warden is usually a person who deals with extreme weather and protect and preserve animal inhabitants. I understand what youre saying but its technically a winter skill line so it makes sense for the character to control extreme weather.

Galeriano

yadibroz wrote: »

So no one want a class that has all ice skills like sorceress and dk?

Since when sorcerers have all skills of one damage type? Thinking that sorcerer is somehow a shock dmg class is very misleading and incorrect.

Some of sorc shock dmg abilities have that shock dmg pushed as secondary effect to just fill the ability with something and DPS wise they either suck or are non existant. Good examples are streak and boundless storm. On the other hand there is a lightning splash which is the least creative out of all class ground AoE abilities. It just deals shock dmg and have a synergy that only Your allies can use. One morph is longer other is wider. That's it. It's extremly boring and unpleasing ability that also doesn't shine dmg wise. Sorc's shock dmg execute is pretty mediocre dmg wise so people rarely slot it outside of certain specific occasions. Class have zero connection with concussed status effect when both warden and DK have nice connection with their respective elemental status effects.

Warden is better ice mage than sorc is a shock mage. Even his ice animations are more pleasing and he can actually build decent ice mage setup since there is more decent sets connected to ice dmg than there is those connected to shock dmg and his ice dmg abilities are actually doing decent dmg.

ESO_Nightingale

Galeriano wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

So no one want a class that has all ice skills like sorceress and dk?

Since when sorcerers have all skills of one damage type? Thinking that sorcerer is somehow a shock dmg class is very misleading and incorrect.

Some of sorc shock dmg abilities have that shock dmg pushed as secondary effect to just fill the ability with something and DPS wise they either suck or are non existant. Good examples are streak and boundless storm. On the other hand there is a lightning splash which is the least creative out of all class ground AoE abilities. It just deals shock dmg and have a synergy that only Your allies can use. One morph is longer other is wider. That's it. It's extremly boring and unpleasing ability that also doesn't shine dmg wise. Sorc's shock dmg execute is pretty mediocre dmg wise so people rarely slot it outside of certain specific occasions. Class have zero connection with concussed status effect when both warden and DK have nice connection with their respective elemental status effects.

Warden is better ice mage than sorc is a shock mage. Even his ice animations are more pleasing and he can actually build decent ice mage setup since there is more decent sets connected to ice dmg than there is those connected to shock dmg and his ice dmg abilities are actually doing decent dmg.

We fought to make frost mage an actual thing. Sorcerer has far more shock damage abilities than we have frost. They just need concussed passive support and damage standardisation. Honestly the elemental classes need damage standardisation. Warden should be Bleed/Frost, sorc Physical/Shock, Dk Poison/Fire

yadibroz

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

So no one want a class that has all ice skills like sorceress and dk?

Since when sorcerers have all skills of one damage type? Thinking that sorcerer is somehow a shock dmg class is very misleading and incorrect.

Some of sorc shock dmg abilities have that shock dmg pushed as secondary effect to just fill the ability with something and DPS wise they either suck or are non existant. Good examples are streak and boundless storm. On the other hand there is a lightning splash which is the least creative out of all class ground AoE abilities. It just deals shock dmg and have a synergy that only Your allies can use. One morph is longer other is wider. That's it. It's extremly boring and unpleasing ability that also doesn't shine dmg wise. Sorc's shock dmg execute is pretty mediocre dmg wise so people rarely slot it outside of certain specific occasions. Class have zero connection with concussed status effect when both warden and DK have nice connection with their respective elemental status effects.

Warden is better ice mage than sorc is a shock mage. Even his ice animations are more pleasing and he can actually build decent ice mage setup since there is more decent sets connected to ice dmg than there is those connected to shock dmg and his ice dmg abilities are actually doing decent dmg.

We fought to make frost mage an actual thing. Sorcerer has far more shock damage abilities than we have frost. They just need concussed passive support and damage standardisation. Honestly the elemental classes need damage standardisation. Warden should be Bleed/Frost, sorc Physical/Shock, Dk Poison/Fire

1000% agree I even have two warden, One only Ice Abilities and other one is a bleed build as one war and work perfectly but for the ice warden it feel like it missing something.

Galeriano

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

So no one want a class that has all ice skills like sorceress and dk?

Since when sorcerers have all skills of one damage type? Thinking that sorcerer is somehow a shock dmg class is very misleading and incorrect.

Some of sorc shock dmg abilities have that shock dmg pushed as secondary effect to just fill the ability with something and DPS wise they either suck or are non existant. Good examples are streak and boundless storm. On the other hand there is a lightning splash which is the least creative out of all class ground AoE abilities. It just deals shock dmg and have a synergy that only Your allies can use. One morph is longer other is wider. That's it. It's extremly boring and unpleasing ability that also doesn't shine dmg wise. Sorc's shock dmg execute is pretty mediocre dmg wise so people rarely slot it outside of certain specific occasions. Class have zero connection with concussed status effect when both warden and DK have nice connection with their respective elemental status effects.

Warden is better ice mage than sorc is a shock mage. Even his ice animations are more pleasing and he can actually build decent ice mage setup since there is more decent sets connected to ice dmg than there is those connected to shock dmg and his ice dmg abilities are actually doing decent dmg.

We fought to make frost mage an actual thing. Sorcerer has far more shock damage abilities than we have frost. They just need concussed passive support and damage standardisation. Honestly the elemental classes need damage standardisation. Warden should be Bleed/Frost, sorc Physical/Shock, Dk Poison/Fire

As I've already said fact that sorc have more shock abilities than warden has frost ones really doesn't mean much when You look at those abilities. Sorc's damage is standarised and that's the issue. You have bunch of standarised dmg with no good secondary effects. Sorc looses to warden big time when it comes to connection of his element with passives and abilities secondary effects. Sorc's shock dmg kit is a complete mess with barely any connection between abilities and passives. It would need way more than just connection to concused status effect to be an actual viable shock mage.

MindOfTheSwarm

I agree on damage standardisation. But not locked at 2. I think 3 is a more fair number to allow for variety.

With regards to lack of Frost and Disease skills, I believe the answer lies in adding new worlds skills such as a Hedge Mage skill line.

Also, refining the Destruction Staves and perhaps ditching Force Shock with a skill that deals one damage type would help. Then Clench could be updated to be a spammable for all the damage types.

Finally Pulsar and Elemental Ring could be further expanded on. Flame could deal more damage to burning targets. Shock could chain lightning from Concussed targets. Frost could give you another AoE DoT, aura based for Pulsar and Ground based for Elemental Ring. It could even be Health based scaling with added Chill effect and damage specs could still use it since Chill deals good damage now.

But it doesn’t really matter what changes happen to existing skills, the truth is there aren’t enough skills outside of classes that can accommodate the lack of elemental representation that currently exists. We need more non-class skills, whatever they may be.

This is why I am so adamant on a Hedge Mage skill line as very class would benefit. If the skill line has a good balance of elements that fit into the flavor of what they do, you could even play off-meta. A Frost Sorc for example.