How long until Arcanist Nerfs???

birdik

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Arcanist is fine. My one bar heavy attack magicka sorc does more DPS and survives better.

Funniest joke i ever heard

lakaisl

All you see is the bible beam in Battlegrounds... heaps of damage and way to sustainable.
Its reaching a point where it is just ridiculous.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

Galeriano

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Sure but heres the thing: those players know the content so well that they have learned to work around its weaknesses. They know the mechanics so well that they are able to time their beams in between attacks that interrupt for example. Realisically they are still getting comparable scores to what they did prior to the class being released. The world record for vcr for example is 2:12 i believe. The one previous to arc release is 2:24. 12 second difference. Being that the beam is a long channel and mid level players are not on that level they lose a significant amount of dps in actual content regardless of what they hit on the dummy. I got a buddy who is a high level player. I got 2 trifectas with him. He just built an arc and he is still having issues getting high dps in content for newer hms. Heck he had a big problem the first time he did final boss portals for vdsr because of the timing and he knew the content well. Its not instant awesome player like ha sorcs were. You can do better mid level damage but you arent immediately a fantastic player because of the class.

Thing is arcanist don't really have lot of weaknesses. The only differene between more and less experienced people is that less experienced people will rely on pragmatic fatecarver more often since it almost removes the main drawback arcanist have which is long cast time on beam and it doesn't cause massive DPS drop. Beam for many people is actually not a drawback but an improvement.

12 seconds is a noticable jump when it comes to vCR especially now when time values are getting closer to 2 minutes. It's almost 9% faster run. In speedrunning community that's a lot. Before arcanist era Z'maja fight alone was taking over 1:30 now it took top team 1:15. This is extreme jump that shows how much power arcanist wields compared to other classes.

Beam is really not some big brain ability to use effectively and same goes for arcanist. Every class takes some practice even in high end to get used to so story about Your friend doesn't bring much into discussion. Fact that Your experienced friend had issues first time he did something on arcanist doesn't suddenly justify arcanist being stronger than other classes. I can contradict Your story with a story of myself or my friends that are among top scorepushers which had no issues with transitioning to arcanist. Even in mid level arcanist is stronger than other classes and You are on average immidiately better on arcanist than on any other class.

When it comes to arcanist currently class is overloaded. There is no other class that sits among top spots for DD, tank and healer at the same time.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

I really don’t agree. Arcanist is forced to use class abilities because of crux, you use any other ability outside of class you are losing power. Also, you can say I choose suboptimal option but it’s just my preferred playstyle and honestly not everyone does trials or plays stam or follows meta. There are no “open choices” for magicka Arcanist. You have to use Runeblades, Inspiration buff, tentacle ability and beam. Those are a must because Arcanist power is based around crux.

Also, the reason why I say nerfing beam hurts stamina and magicka is because the only reason stamina beam is stamina is because that’s the higher resource in your scenario, if magicka was higher it’d be magicka beam. If ZOS wanted to nerf stamina then I think toning down Flail and Coral Riptide would be a better way to go.

Arcanist are not the best dps in any part of the game. Even if I did the “optimal set up” I still wouldn’t do high dps numbers because of well… me… lol. I just see that Arcanist “power” is balanced but on very thin ice.

Everyone plays differently though, so what you think would be balanced might not be to some others and vice versa. I just happen to think that Arcanist is pretty balanced except for the shield ultimate.

EDIT- I also want to add that my build may be suboptimal but at 32k-33k dps (3m dummy) I can do everything in the game that I want. I can't do vet trials, leaderboard chasing, or HardMode stuff but those aren't my thing anyway. But dungeons, pvp, bg, overland, arenas and etc... I'm set.

Galeriano

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

I really don’t agree. Arcanist is forced to use class abilities because of crux, you use any other ability outside of class you are losing power. Also, you can say I choose suboptimal option but it’s just my preferred playstyle and honestly not everyone does trials or plays stam or follows meta. There are no “open choices” for magicka Arcanist. You have to use Runeblades, Inspiration buff, tentacle ability and beam. Those are a must because Arcanist power is based around crux.

Also, the reason why I say nerfing beam hurts stamina and magicka is because the only reason stamina beam is stamina is because that’s the higher resource in your scenario, if magicka was higher it’d be magicka beam. If ZOS wanted to nerf stamina then I think toning down Flail and Coral Riptide would be a better way to go.

Arcanist are not the best dps in any part of the game. Even if I did the “optimal set up” I still wouldn’t do high dps numbers because of well… me… lol. I just see that Arcanist “power” is balanced but on very thin ice.

Everyone plays differently though, so what you think would be balanced might not be to some others and vice versa. I just happen to think that Arcanist is pretty balanced except for the shield ultimate.

EDIT- I also want to add that my build may be suboptimal but at 32k-33k dps (3m dummy) I can do everything in the game that I want. I can't do vet trials, leaderboard chasing, or HardMode stuff but those aren't my thing anyway. But dungeons, pvp, bg, overland, arenas and etc... I'm set.

Every class is somewhat forced to use class abilities. Every class have abilities that offer more power than abilities from outside of class kit. Every class will also loose DPS is it decides to drop core class abilities. For every class it's usually the same rule, You fill up skill slots with most important class abilities and than You fill remaining gaps with things from outside that will match the rotation. Arcanist is no exception from that rule and he actually have one of the highest amount of abilities from outside the class kit. In PvE arcanist will often be using 6-7 abilities from non class skill lines. Arcanist is not forced to use abilities because of crux, he is forced to charge crux because of a beam in the first place. As I've said You are free to choose suboptimal options but balance cannot be made around these. Magicka arcanist could choose non beam path. It was actually a thing during PTS testing before ZoS nerfed it. Non beam rotation with tentacular dread was actually performing really nice and initially was even considered as viable meta choice.

With proper changes to tentacular dread magicka arcanist would be more than fine after nerfs to beam. Nerfing Flail is pretty much counterintuitive because it's note core of the current issue with arcanist in PvE and nerfing Coral Riptide is a horrible idea because You would be basically nerfing everyone simply because arcanist exists.

Arcanist is literally the best group content DPS currently. If You will look at current top score groups they are dominated by arcanists with other classes usually serving as support roles and even among support roles there are arcanists because arcanist is also one of the best tanks and healers. I can assure You that with proper setup You would be doing way better than many other classes simply because of the fact You play as arcanist.

Yes everyone plays differently but there has to be some template for balance decisions. You can't allow anything and keep broken things in the game simply because everyone plays differently and not everyone will stumble upon certain overperforming features. Your opinion that arcanist is balanced can be easily disproven by factual data for example from ESO Logs website.

Fact that certain setup is suboptimal doesn't mean it won't be able to do anything in the game.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

I really don’t agree. Arcanist is forced to use class abilities because of crux, you use any other ability outside of class you are losing power. Also, you can say I choose suboptimal option but it’s just my preferred playstyle and honestly not everyone does trials or plays stam or follows meta. There are no “open choices” for magicka Arcanist. You have to use Runeblades, Inspiration buff, tentacle ability and beam. Those are a must because Arcanist power is based around crux.

Also, the reason why I say nerfing beam hurts stamina and magicka is because the only reason stamina beam is stamina is because that’s the higher resource in your scenario, if magicka was higher it’d be magicka beam. If ZOS wanted to nerf stamina then I think toning down Flail and Coral Riptide would be a better way to go.

Arcanist are not the best dps in any part of the game. Even if I did the “optimal set up” I still wouldn’t do high dps numbers because of well… me… lol. I just see that Arcanist “power” is balanced but on very thin ice.

Everyone plays differently though, so what you think would be balanced might not be to some others and vice versa. I just happen to think that Arcanist is pretty balanced except for the shield ultimate.

EDIT- I also want to add that my build may be suboptimal but at 32k-33k dps (3m dummy) I can do everything in the game that I want. I can't do vet trials, leaderboard chasing, or HardMode stuff but those aren't my thing anyway. But dungeons, pvp, bg, overland, arenas and etc... I'm set.

Every class is somewhat forced to use class abilities. Every class have abilities that offer more power than abilities from outside of class kit. Every class will also loose DPS is it decides to drop core class abilities. For every class it's usually the same rule, You fill up skill slots with most important class abilities and than You fill remaining gaps with things from outside that will match the rotation. Arcanist is no exception from that rule and he actually have one of the highest amount of abilities from outside the class kit. In PvE arcanist will often be using 6-7 abilities from non class skill lines. Arcanist is not forced to use abilities because of crux, he is forced to charge crux because of a beam in the first place. As I've said You are free to choose suboptimal options but balance cannot be made around these. Magicka arcanist could choose non beam path. It was actually a thing during PTS testing before ZoS nerfed it. Non beam rotation with tentacular dread was actually performing really nice and initially was even considered as viable meta choice.

With proper changes to tentacular dread magicka arcanist would be more than fine after nerfs to beam. Nerfing Flail is pretty much counterintuitive because it's note core of the current issue with arcanist in PvE and nerfing Coral Riptide is a horrible idea because You would be basically nerfing everyone simply because arcanist exists.

Arcanist is literally the best group content DPS currently. If You will look at current top score groups they are dominated by arcanists with other classes usually serving as support roles and even among support roles there are arcanists because arcanist is also one of the best tanks and healers. I can assure You that with proper setup You would be doing way better than many other classes simply because of the fact You play as arcanist.

Yes everyone plays differently but there has to be some template for balance decisions. You can't allow anything and keep broken things in the game simply because everyone plays differently and not everyone will stumble upon certain overperforming features. Your opinion that arcanist is balanced can be easily disproven by factual data for example from ESO Logs website.

Fact that certain setup is suboptimal doesn't mean it won't be able to do anything in the game.

I do not care even a little about who is on top of the leaderboards. Players who seek to be on top of those will use and do just about anything that is legal to get a better and faster score, sometimes it has little to do with the class. Often times those leaderboards can give people the wrong impression of a class. There is nothing wrong with this playstyle, it’s just not mine and honestly probably a small portion of the game population.

Example: when Necromancer dropped Major Vulnerability was stupid good. All you saw on like Sunspire and some others was Necro but I remember talking to some guildies who were in those groups and also watched others and they all said the same: Necromancer class sucked and they hated it but the Major Vulnerability buff got them a better score so they sucked it up. As soon as the buff was changed and in some other places, I don’t think I’ve seen a class dropped faster.

If you are basing your opinion on hard mode endgame, elite leaderboard chasing stuff then we will probably never agree because with my 33k dps on Arcanist I can complete like 98% of the game. Truthfully, you don’t need a ton to do this game until you get to vet trials and HM vet dungeon and score chasing. I also do not think any class or skill line should be changed based on just a portion of the game, the impact on the game as a whole should be looked at.

Should the shield on Pragmatic be toned down? Sure, I am learning that’s not the better morph, at least for me, so fine I guess. In PvP though this shield is not even a slight problem as most stuns, fears and whatever counter it.

Can the shield ultimate be nerfed more? Yes. This is still an issue.

For dps it’s in the middle but some people are having fun with the class, like me. My PvE main is a Magcro and my PvP main right now is Magsorc but I have a lot more fun on my Arcanist.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

Like I said if you are basing your opinion on ESO logs and the top of the leaderboard then I think you’re looking at things the wrong way.

The players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores. You ever think the reason Arcanist is so highly used in those is because of the shield ultimate which is way too powerful right now? Score pushers care about scores…. That’s it. If doing the griddy with no armor got you better scores they’d do it. If using that troll weapon ZOS puts in the crown store near April Fools, the broom, got those they’d use it. Doesn’t mean the class is overpowered or anything like that. It just means that for their purpose, it works until it doesn’t… which usually means until other skill lines or class is released or a class or skill line have something over-buffed.

Nothing wrong with score chasing and doing hard mode stuff… just not for me and it’s a small part of the game so things shouldn’t be changed around it.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

I really don’t agree. Arcanist is forced to use class abilities because of crux, you use any other ability outside of class you are losing power. Also, you can say I choose suboptimal option but it’s just my preferred playstyle and honestly not everyone does trials or plays stam or follows meta. There are no “open choices” for magicka Arcanist. You have to use Runeblades, Inspiration buff, tentacle ability and beam. Those are a must because Arcanist power is based around crux.

Also, the reason why I say nerfing beam hurts stamina and magicka is because the only reason stamina beam is stamina is because that’s the higher resource in your scenario, if magicka was higher it’d be magicka beam. If ZOS wanted to nerf stamina then I think toning down Flail and Coral Riptide would be a better way to go.

Arcanist are not the best dps in any part of the game. Even if I did the “optimal set up” I still wouldn’t do high dps numbers because of well… me… lol. I just see that Arcanist “power” is balanced but on very thin ice.

Everyone plays differently though, so what you think would be balanced might not be to some others and vice versa. I just happen to think that Arcanist is pretty balanced except for the shield ultimate.

EDIT- I also want to add that my build may be suboptimal but at 32k-33k dps (3m dummy) I can do everything in the game that I want. I can't do vet trials, leaderboard chasing, or HardMode stuff but those aren't my thing anyway. But dungeons, pvp, bg, overland, arenas and etc... I'm set.

Every class is somewhat forced to use class abilities. Every class have abilities that offer more power than abilities from outside of class kit. Every class will also loose DPS is it decides to drop core class abilities. For every class it's usually the same rule, You fill up skill slots with most important class abilities and than You fill remaining gaps with things from outside that will match the rotation. Arcanist is no exception from that rule and he actually have one of the highest amount of abilities from outside the class kit. In PvE arcanist will often be using 6-7 abilities from non class skill lines. Arcanist is not forced to use abilities because of crux, he is forced to charge crux because of a beam in the first place. As I've said You are free to choose suboptimal options but balance cannot be made around these. Magicka arcanist could choose non beam path. It was actually a thing during PTS testing before ZoS nerfed it. Non beam rotation with tentacular dread was actually performing really nice and initially was even considered as viable meta choice.

With proper changes to tentacular dread magicka arcanist would be more than fine after nerfs to beam. Nerfing Flail is pretty much counterintuitive because it's note core of the current issue with arcanist in PvE and nerfing Coral Riptide is a horrible idea because You would be basically nerfing everyone simply because arcanist exists.

Arcanist is literally the best group content DPS currently. If You will look at current top score groups they are dominated by arcanists with other classes usually serving as support roles and even among support roles there are arcanists because arcanist is also one of the best tanks and healers. I can assure You that with proper setup You would be doing way better than many other classes simply because of the fact You play as arcanist.

Yes everyone plays differently but there has to be some template for balance decisions. You can't allow anything and keep broken things in the game simply because everyone plays differently and not everyone will stumble upon certain overperforming features. Your opinion that arcanist is balanced can be easily disproven by factual data for example from ESO Logs website.

Fact that certain setup is suboptimal doesn't mean it won't be able to do anything in the game.

I do not care even a little about who is on top of the leaderboards. Players who seek to be on top of those will use and do just about anything that is legal to get a better and faster score, sometimes it has little to do with the class. Often times those leaderboards can give people the wrong impression of a class. There is nothing wrong with this playstyle, it’s just not mine and honestly probably a small portion of the game population.

Example: when Necromancer dropped Major Vulnerability was stupid good. All you saw on like Sunspire and some others was Necro but I remember talking to some guildies who were in those groups and also watched others and they all said the same: Necromancer class sucked and they hated it but the Major Vulnerability buff got them a better score so they sucked it up. As soon as the buff was changed and in some other places, I don’t think I’ve seen a class dropped faster.

If you are basing your opinion on hard mode endgame, elite leaderboard chasing stuff then we will probably never agree because with my 33k dps on Arcanist I can complete like 98% of the game. Truthfully, you don’t need a ton to do this game until you get to vet trials and HM vet dungeon and score chasing. I also do not think any class or skill line should be changed based on just a portion of the game, the impact on the game as a whole should be looked at.

Should the shield on Pragmatic be toned down? Sure, I am learning that’s not the better morph, at least for me, so fine I guess. In PvP though this shield is not even a slight problem as most stuns, fears and whatever counter it.

Can the shield ultimate be nerfed more? Yes. This is still an issue.

For dps it’s in the middle but some people are having fun with the class, like me. My PvE main is a Magcro and my PvP main right now is Magsorc but I have a lot more fun on my Arcanist.

Fact that You don't care about it doesn't mean things don't exist and dont prove something. I can assure You that in ESO strenght of the class is the main factor behind it being present in scorepushing team. And the strongest class always takes the most spots. it's as simple as that. Overwhelming majority of people in scorepushing groups will always be using the strongest class possible at any given moment and that will be always represented in the logs. I can assure You that stam based arcanist is not a playstyle of a small portion of playerbase but it's a dominating playstyle atm especially everywhere where it matters.

I think You didn't understand what Your guildies meant by saying that necromancer sucked. They propably meant class's playstyle because yes necromancer was really cluncky and unenjoyable to play at times with old corpse ruleset and off GCD abilities like tether. That being said it didn't suck as DD, it was a top DD even without majot vulnerability and this is why it was dominating. Class also wasn't dropped instantly after vulnerability was changed and changes to vulnerability were not the main reason why class was dropped.

Yeah You don't need much to complete the game. This is also why You don't need to be affaraid of nerfs because if 33k on 3M dummy is enough to clear 90+% of the game 30k will be too and these nerfs can just bring more healthy and balanced enviroment where one class does not dominate so obviously over the others. There needs to be some base for balance changes, making balance changes based on whole playerbase is impossible so it's obvious You will have to pick some portion of the game. Said "impact on the game as a whole" is often impossible to base balance decisions upon. Every change will have good and bad outcomes at the same time in different parts of the game.

Shield ultimate on arcanist is actually not that problematic. It's actually one of the better ballanced abilities. I donl;t know what do You find so problematic about it.

Arcanist DPS may be in the middle for You but it's definietly not in the middle if You take larger sample of the playerbase and larger variety of content to do. Right now it's a top DPS choice in most situations that only occasionally makes room for other classes for example in solo arenas.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

I really don’t agree. Arcanist is forced to use class abilities because of crux, you use any other ability outside of class you are losing power. Also, you can say I choose suboptimal option but it’s just my preferred playstyle and honestly not everyone does trials or plays stam or follows meta. There are no “open choices” for magicka Arcanist. You have to use Runeblades, Inspiration buff, tentacle ability and beam. Those are a must because Arcanist power is based around crux.

Also, the reason why I say nerfing beam hurts stamina and magicka is because the only reason stamina beam is stamina is because that’s the higher resource in your scenario, if magicka was higher it’d be magicka beam. If ZOS wanted to nerf stamina then I think toning down Flail and Coral Riptide would be a better way to go.

Arcanist are not the best dps in any part of the game. Even if I did the “optimal set up” I still wouldn’t do high dps numbers because of well… me… lol. I just see that Arcanist “power” is balanced but on very thin ice.

Everyone plays differently though, so what you think would be balanced might not be to some others and vice versa. I just happen to think that Arcanist is pretty balanced except for the shield ultimate.

EDIT- I also want to add that my build may be suboptimal but at 32k-33k dps (3m dummy) I can do everything in the game that I want. I can't do vet trials, leaderboard chasing, or HardMode stuff but those aren't my thing anyway. But dungeons, pvp, bg, overland, arenas and etc... I'm set.

Every class is somewhat forced to use class abilities. Every class have abilities that offer more power than abilities from outside of class kit. Every class will also loose DPS is it decides to drop core class abilities. For every class it's usually the same rule, You fill up skill slots with most important class abilities and than You fill remaining gaps with things from outside that will match the rotation. Arcanist is no exception from that rule and he actually have one of the highest amount of abilities from outside the class kit. In PvE arcanist will often be using 6-7 abilities from non class skill lines. Arcanist is not forced to use abilities because of crux, he is forced to charge crux because of a beam in the first place. As I've said You are free to choose suboptimal options but balance cannot be made around these. Magicka arcanist could choose non beam path. It was actually a thing during PTS testing before ZoS nerfed it. Non beam rotation with tentacular dread was actually performing really nice and initially was even considered as viable meta choice.

With proper changes to tentacular dread magicka arcanist would be more than fine after nerfs to beam. Nerfing Flail is pretty much counterintuitive because it's note core of the current issue with arcanist in PvE and nerfing Coral Riptide is a horrible idea because You would be basically nerfing everyone simply because arcanist exists.

Arcanist is literally the best group content DPS currently. If You will look at current top score groups they are dominated by arcanists with other classes usually serving as support roles and even among support roles there are arcanists because arcanist is also one of the best tanks and healers. I can assure You that with proper setup You would be doing way better than many other classes simply because of the fact You play as arcanist.

Yes everyone plays differently but there has to be some template for balance decisions. You can't allow anything and keep broken things in the game simply because everyone plays differently and not everyone will stumble upon certain overperforming features. Your opinion that arcanist is balanced can be easily disproven by factual data for example from ESO Logs website.

Fact that certain setup is suboptimal doesn't mean it won't be able to do anything in the game.

I do not care even a little about who is on top of the leaderboards. Players who seek to be on top of those will use and do just about anything that is legal to get a better and faster score, sometimes it has little to do with the class. Often times those leaderboards can give people the wrong impression of a class. There is nothing wrong with this playstyle, it’s just not mine and honestly probably a small portion of the game population.

Example: when Necromancer dropped Major Vulnerability was stupid good. All you saw on like Sunspire and some others was Necro but I remember talking to some guildies who were in those groups and also watched others and they all said the same: Necromancer class sucked and they hated it but the Major Vulnerability buff got them a better score so they sucked it up. As soon as the buff was changed and in some other places, I don’t think I’ve seen a class dropped faster.

If you are basing your opinion on hard mode endgame, elite leaderboard chasing stuff then we will probably never agree because with my 33k dps on Arcanist I can complete like 98% of the game. Truthfully, you don’t need a ton to do this game until you get to vet trials and HM vet dungeon and score chasing. I also do not think any class or skill line should be changed based on just a portion of the game, the impact on the game as a whole should be looked at.

Should the shield on Pragmatic be toned down? Sure, I am learning that’s not the better morph, at least for me, so fine I guess. In PvP though this shield is not even a slight problem as most stuns, fears and whatever counter it.

Can the shield ultimate be nerfed more? Yes. This is still an issue.

For dps it’s in the middle but some people are having fun with the class, like me. My PvE main is a Magcro and my PvP main right now is Magsorc but I have a lot more fun on my Arcanist.

Fact that You don't care about it doesn't mean things don't exist and dont prove something. I can assure You that in ESO strenght of the class is the main factor behind it being present in scorepushing team. And the strongest class always takes the most spots. it's as simple as that. Overwhelming majority of people in scorepushing groups will always be using the strongest class possible at any given moment and that will be always represented in the logs. I can assure You that stam based arcanist is not a playstyle of a small portion of playerbase but it's a dominating playstyle atm especially everywhere where it matters.

I think You didn't understand what Your guildies meant by saying that necromancer sucked. They propably meant class's playstyle because yes necromancer was really cluncky and unenjoyable to play at times with old corpse ruleset and off GCD abilities like tether. That being said it didn't suck as DD, it was a top DD even without majot vulnerability and this is why it was dominating. Class also wasn't dropped instantly after vulnerability was changed and changes to vulnerability were not the main reason why class was dropped.

Yeah You don't need much to complete the game. This is also why You don't need to be affaraid of nerfs because if 33k on 3M dummy is enough to clear 90+% of the game 30k will be too and these nerfs can just bring more healthy and balanced enviroment where one class does not dominate so obviously over the others. There needs to be some base for balance changes, making balance changes based on whole playerbase is impossible so it's obvious You will have to pick some portion of the game. Said "impact on the game as a whole" is often impossible to base balance decisions upon. Every change will have good and bad outcomes at the same time in different parts of the game.

Shield ultimate on arcanist is actually not that problematic. It's actually one of the better ballanced abilities. I donl;t know what do You find so problematic about it.

Arcanist DPS may be in the middle for You but it's definietly not in the middle if You take larger sample of the playerbase and larger variety of content to do. Right now it's a top DPS choice in most situations that only occasionally makes room for other classes for example in solo arenas.

But it won’t bring balance, that’s what I am saying. Score pushers will just all flock to the next thing and you’ll see a ton of DKs or Warden or NBs. This has been the cycle for years and it just does not work. You can’t base class/skill changes on leaderboards, majority of the players don’t do that kind of content.

You’re asking me to accept a 3k or more dip in dps because you want your class to flood the leaderboards? LoL, no. We should continue to bring the floor up but I’d be okay to leaving it where it is now and also bring in some more things for players who want a challenge. Lowering the floor again will just have people leave the game again.

Arcanist shield ultimate is a major save your butt skill. I’ve survived a lot using just this as a shield/ultimate. In PvP it’s easy to just wait for it to go away but PvE I can tank a lot with that being the only shield on my bars.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

Like I said if you are basing your opinion on ESO logs and the top of the leaderboard then I think you’re looking at things the wrong way.

The players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores. You ever think the reason Arcanist is so highly used in those is because of the shield ultimate which is way too powerful right now? Score pushers care about scores…. That’s it. If doing the griddy with no armor got you better scores they’d do it. If using that troll weapon ZOS puts in the crown store near April Fools, the broom, got those they’d use it. Doesn’t mean the class is overpowered or anything like that. It just means that for their purpose, it works until it doesn’t… which usually means until other skill lines or class is released or a class or skill line have something over-buffed.

Nothing wrong with score chasing and doing hard mode stuff… just not for me and it’s a small part of the game so things shouldn’t be changed around it.

What shield ultimate? No arcanist DD in top score runs have class shield ultimate slotted. Why even would they? At this point I am starting to think You may not fully know what You are talking about.

I agree that "the players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores". And the first most important thing that majority of scorepushing DD players will do is choosing the strongest DD class and currently that is arcanist. That's it. It's as simple as that. You are trying really hard to avoid that simple truth.

And when scorepushers show which class is the strongest it usually start to become a meta that large potion of playerbase participating in group content will follow. Why wouldn't they if that's the strongest choice possible and quite frankly atm also one of the easiest to play.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

Like I said if you are basing your opinion on ESO logs and the top of the leaderboard then I think you’re looking at things the wrong way.

The players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores. You ever think the reason Arcanist is so highly used in those is because of the shield ultimate which is way too powerful right now? Score pushers care about scores…. That’s it. If doing the griddy with no armor got you better scores they’d do it. If using that troll weapon ZOS puts in the crown store near April Fools, the broom, got those they’d use it. Doesn’t mean the class is overpowered or anything like that. It just means that for their purpose, it works until it doesn’t… which usually means until other skill lines or class is released or a class or skill line have something over-buffed.

Nothing wrong with score chasing and doing hard mode stuff… just not for me and it’s a small part of the game so things shouldn’t be changed around it.

What shield ultimate? No arcanist DD in top score runs have class shield ultimate slotted. Why even would they? At this point I am starting to think You may not fully know what You are talking about.

I agree that "the players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores". And the first most important thing that majority of scorepushing DD players will do is choosing the strongest DD class and currently that is arcanist. That's it. It's as simple as that. You are trying really hard to avoid that simple truth.

And when scorepushers show which class is the strongest it usually start to become a meta that large potion of playerbase participating in group content will follow. Why wouldn't they if that's the strongest choice possible and quite frankly atm also one of the easiest to play.

I should have mentioned that when I meant shield ultimate I meant in a tank or healer role.

I am not avoiding the truth, it sounds like we okay two different styles in the game. You seem to be a score pusher, which is fine and I am not. I base my opinion on Arcanist based on that in PvP I am so much better on other classes, but Arcanist I have more fun. In PvE Arcanist is easier to use for me, I would actually feel comfortable going into a vet dlc dungeon but I feel like Arcanist is a one trick pony that heavily relies on one thing which is a huge draw back for me. It’s why even if I am comfortable I know one slight gust of wind from The Hammer will bring it down.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanist definitely needs the cleave damage nerfed. Make it do the full single target damage on the closest target and reduced splash damage on other targets, like templar jabs. I can parse the same numbers with both arc and templar, but in content arc just deals way more damage.

For example, in vSE an arcanist can run Pragmatic Fatecarver and tank the lightning miniboss in the portal, while dealing massive damage, without having to slot vigor. Templar has to block cast Honor the Dead or sacrifice Barrier ultimate if I get the lightning.

The unique 5% debuff from flail is a significant damage boost that other classes don't have, because other classes have mostly named buffs that don't stack.

That being said, mag arcanist needs buffs, since it's just worse sustain and worse damage right now.

You can't nerf the damage but also buff the damage at the same time. The abilities cost is based on what your max attribute is, mag or stam, so nerfing the ability nerfs both mag and stam. Plus, your solution to Arcanist is to bring it down to the level of Templar when that class is at the bottom with Necro? Unless you are saying that Templar and other classes below average should be brought up and balanced, in which case I agree.

Every class should be unique and different. They should bring different things to the table that make them fun and stand out.

You can nerf the damage of one thing or one playstyle while also buffing the dmg of other thing or other playstyle within the same class. it has been done numerous times for different classes.

Nerfing beam does not nerf mag and stam arcanist equally. Beam based setup with current arcanist kit is basically stam exclusive. While beam have cost based on higher resource it still requires to stack crux and the best ability to do it that leaves everything else behind is Cephaliarch's Flail which costs stamina. Someonme could say that mag arcanist can just add runeblades to the kit and use any morph of Abyssal Ink combined with runeblades and beam but that actually makes rotation less effective. Other reason is beam cost per second. It's so low that it makes more beneficial to be stam arcanist due to how well it synergizes with Coral Riptide set. Arcanist is the easiest class to keep stamina at reliably low levels without the risk of going dry which makes this class the best Coral Ri[tide user. Nerfing beam would actually buff mag arcanist a bit because it would make non beam based arcanist with Tentacular Dread and Runeblades a bit more effective especially if Tentacular Dread would also recive some buff so disproportion between mag and stam arcanist would be lower.

Templar is not at the bottom when it comes to PvE DPS. It's actually one of the better DD classes atm it terms of pure numbers. The only reason it's not being taken to the top trials is because it's not number 1 DD and it doesnt have uinique support that secure one spot in group for classes like DK, necro or sorc.

Well I don’t do trials so I don’t have Coral Riptide and I am a magicka Arcanist. I almost always prefer magicka playstyle over stamina. It could be that my brain is having a real rough time wrapping around this but I don’t see how nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina. It’s one tooltip for both magicka and stamina for all morphs. I mean in terms of other abilities that go around beam I guess I could see that but ZOS is not in the habit of nerfing one ability and buffing the rest. They usually nerf and then come back to it later or in the case of Necro just nerf and screw the rest.

Nerfing beam just hurts me and kills the balance that Arcanist has. If there was a stamina morph of Fatecarver then I would certainly say yeah, nerf the stamina morph and leave the magicka one alone. However, that’s just not how the class was designed. Maybe this is an endgame/score pusher issue in which case I am not one of those and I would say any class changes shouldn’t be based around one part of the game.

So You are willingly choosing suboptimal option. While You are free to do so You need to accept that game balance cannot resolve around Your preferences since balancing game around suboptimal setups would cause lot of further issues. The strongest possible options are always the ones that need to be looked at in the first place. I didn't said that "nerfing beam doesn’t impact both magicka and stamina." I said that it doesn't impact mag and stam equally and I explained why. Stamina beam is just stronger than magicka beam due to top choice for arcanist DD being medium armor, Coral Riptide set and Cephaliarch's Flail where all 3 lean towards stamina arcanist.

Beam being as strong as it is forces also mag arcanist to use it despite mag arcanist being suboptimal choice. Nerfing beam would actually open more choices for mag arcanist while tuning down stam arcanist especially if tentacular dread would be also buffed in the meantime. ZoS really doesn't have any habits when it comes to balance decisions. They are all over the place, sometimes they do right things and sometimes mess things up. People just tend to remember messed up decisions more. Nerfing beam and buffing tentacular dread would be a decent middleground for arcanist.

I really don’t agree. Arcanist is forced to use class abilities because of crux, you use any other ability outside of class you are losing power. Also, you can say I choose suboptimal option but it’s just my preferred playstyle and honestly not everyone does trials or plays stam or follows meta. There are no “open choices” for magicka Arcanist. You have to use Runeblades, Inspiration buff, tentacle ability and beam. Those are a must because Arcanist power is based around crux.

Also, the reason why I say nerfing beam hurts stamina and magicka is because the only reason stamina beam is stamina is because that’s the higher resource in your scenario, if magicka was higher it’d be magicka beam. If ZOS wanted to nerf stamina then I think toning down Flail and Coral Riptide would be a better way to go.

Arcanist are not the best dps in any part of the game. Even if I did the “optimal set up” I still wouldn’t do high dps numbers because of well… me… lol. I just see that Arcanist “power” is balanced but on very thin ice.

Everyone plays differently though, so what you think would be balanced might not be to some others and vice versa. I just happen to think that Arcanist is pretty balanced except for the shield ultimate.

EDIT- I also want to add that my build may be suboptimal but at 32k-33k dps (3m dummy) I can do everything in the game that I want. I can't do vet trials, leaderboard chasing, or HardMode stuff but those aren't my thing anyway. But dungeons, pvp, bg, overland, arenas and etc... I'm set.

Every class is somewhat forced to use class abilities. Every class have abilities that offer more power than abilities from outside of class kit. Every class will also loose DPS is it decides to drop core class abilities. For every class it's usually the same rule, You fill up skill slots with most important class abilities and than You fill remaining gaps with things from outside that will match the rotation. Arcanist is no exception from that rule and he actually have one of the highest amount of abilities from outside the class kit. In PvE arcanist will often be using 6-7 abilities from non class skill lines. Arcanist is not forced to use abilities because of crux, he is forced to charge crux because of a beam in the first place. As I've said You are free to choose suboptimal options but balance cannot be made around these. Magicka arcanist could choose non beam path. It was actually a thing during PTS testing before ZoS nerfed it. Non beam rotation with tentacular dread was actually performing really nice and initially was even considered as viable meta choice.

With proper changes to tentacular dread magicka arcanist would be more than fine after nerfs to beam. Nerfing Flail is pretty much counterintuitive because it's note core of the current issue with arcanist in PvE and nerfing Coral Riptide is a horrible idea because You would be basically nerfing everyone simply because arcanist exists.

Arcanist is literally the best group content DPS currently. If You will look at current top score groups they are dominated by arcanists with other classes usually serving as support roles and even among support roles there are arcanists because arcanist is also one of the best tanks and healers. I can assure You that with proper setup You would be doing way better than many other classes simply because of the fact You play as arcanist.

Yes everyone plays differently but there has to be some template for balance decisions. You can't allow anything and keep broken things in the game simply because everyone plays differently and not everyone will stumble upon certain overperforming features. Your opinion that arcanist is balanced can be easily disproven by factual data for example from ESO Logs website.

Fact that certain setup is suboptimal doesn't mean it won't be able to do anything in the game.

I do not care even a little about who is on top of the leaderboards. Players who seek to be on top of those will use and do just about anything that is legal to get a better and faster score, sometimes it has little to do with the class. Often times those leaderboards can give people the wrong impression of a class. There is nothing wrong with this playstyle, it’s just not mine and honestly probably a small portion of the game population.

Example: when Necromancer dropped Major Vulnerability was stupid good. All you saw on like Sunspire and some others was Necro but I remember talking to some guildies who were in those groups and also watched others and they all said the same: Necromancer class sucked and they hated it but the Major Vulnerability buff got them a better score so they sucked it up. As soon as the buff was changed and in some other places, I don’t think I’ve seen a class dropped faster.

If you are basing your opinion on hard mode endgame, elite leaderboard chasing stuff then we will probably never agree because with my 33k dps on Arcanist I can complete like 98% of the game. Truthfully, you don’t need a ton to do this game until you get to vet trials and HM vet dungeon and score chasing. I also do not think any class or skill line should be changed based on just a portion of the game, the impact on the game as a whole should be looked at.

Should the shield on Pragmatic be toned down? Sure, I am learning that’s not the better morph, at least for me, so fine I guess. In PvP though this shield is not even a slight problem as most stuns, fears and whatever counter it.

Can the shield ultimate be nerfed more? Yes. This is still an issue.

For dps it’s in the middle but some people are having fun with the class, like me. My PvE main is a Magcro and my PvP main right now is Magsorc but I have a lot more fun on my Arcanist.

Fact that You don't care about it doesn't mean things don't exist and dont prove something. I can assure You that in ESO strenght of the class is the main factor behind it being present in scorepushing team. And the strongest class always takes the most spots. it's as simple as that. Overwhelming majority of people in scorepushing groups will always be using the strongest class possible at any given moment and that will be always represented in the logs. I can assure You that stam based arcanist is not a playstyle of a small portion of playerbase but it's a dominating playstyle atm especially everywhere where it matters.

I think You didn't understand what Your guildies meant by saying that necromancer sucked. They propably meant class's playstyle because yes necromancer was really cluncky and unenjoyable to play at times with old corpse ruleset and off GCD abilities like tether. That being said it didn't suck as DD, it was a top DD even without majot vulnerability and this is why it was dominating. Class also wasn't dropped instantly after vulnerability was changed and changes to vulnerability were not the main reason why class was dropped.

Yeah You don't need much to complete the game. This is also why You don't need to be affaraid of nerfs because if 33k on 3M dummy is enough to clear 90+% of the game 30k will be too and these nerfs can just bring more healthy and balanced enviroment where one class does not dominate so obviously over the others. There needs to be some base for balance changes, making balance changes based on whole playerbase is impossible so it's obvious You will have to pick some portion of the game. Said "impact on the game as a whole" is often impossible to base balance decisions upon. Every change will have good and bad outcomes at the same time in different parts of the game.

Shield ultimate on arcanist is actually not that problematic. It's actually one of the better ballanced abilities. I donl;t know what do You find so problematic about it.

Arcanist DPS may be in the middle for You but it's definietly not in the middle if You take larger sample of the playerbase and larger variety of content to do. Right now it's a top DPS choice in most situations that only occasionally makes room for other classes for example in solo arenas.

But it won’t bring balance, that’s what I am saying. Score pushers will just all flock to the next thing and you’ll see a ton of DKs or Warden or NBs. This has been the cycle for years and it just does not work. You can’t base class/skill changes on leaderboards, majority of the players don’t do that kind of content.

You’re asking me to accept a 3k or more dip in dps because you want your class to flood the leaderboards? LoL, no. We should continue to bring the floor up but I’d be okay to leaving it where it is now and also bring in some more things for players who want a challenge. Lowering the floor again will just have people leave the game again.

Arcanist shield ultimate is a major save your butt skill. I’ve survived a lot using just this as a shield/ultimate. In PvP it’s easy to just wait for it to go away but PvE I can tank a lot with that being the only shield on my bars.

Perfect balance is impossible but it surely will bring more balance than we have currently. We are currently in one of the least balanced metas in the game history. You see there was a time when even scorepushers were not all jumping onto 1 specific class when class DPS was more balanced where while not perfect You would see definietly more healthy spliut in top DPS results. With proper adjustments not only to arcanist but also to other classes it's possible to achieve but top do it arcanist will have to recive nerfs.

No. First of all I am not asking You for anything second of all I am also playing arcanist in PvE atm so Your accusation makes no sense. Continued raise of the floor is as bad for game balance as continous raising of the roof. Extremes will always end with disasters like U35 for example. Sooner or later developer will be forced to lower the power creep anyway. It's the price to pay to keep game healthy and balanced and engaging in longer run. If power creep wheter on floor or roof level goes up continously than at some point it needs to be tuned down. If ZoS wouldn't make drastic cuts here and there during that 10 years today we would be clearing almost everything with one button which would cause even more people to leave due to game being boring and stagnant.

If You think arcanist ultimate saves the butt than You should have seen DK magma shell memes. Arcanist shield ulti is just ok. Nothing extra fancy just a decent ultimate. It's not like arcanist needs that in majority of encounters anyway. And other classes can use barrier ultimate from PvP skill line which is also a "major save Your and Your group butts" skill that in group content is stronger than arcanist ulti and got many people their clears and trifectas.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

Like I said if you are basing your opinion on ESO logs and the top of the leaderboard then I think you’re looking at things the wrong way.

The players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores. You ever think the reason Arcanist is so highly used in those is because of the shield ultimate which is way too powerful right now? Score pushers care about scores…. That’s it. If doing the griddy with no armor got you better scores they’d do it. If using that troll weapon ZOS puts in the crown store near April Fools, the broom, got those they’d use it. Doesn’t mean the class is overpowered or anything like that. It just means that for their purpose, it works until it doesn’t… which usually means until other skill lines or class is released or a class or skill line have something over-buffed.

Nothing wrong with score chasing and doing hard mode stuff… just not for me and it’s a small part of the game so things shouldn’t be changed around it.

What shield ultimate? No arcanist DD in top score runs have class shield ultimate slotted. Why even would they? At this point I am starting to think You may not fully know what You are talking about.

I agree that "the players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores". And the first most important thing that majority of scorepushing DD players will do is choosing the strongest DD class and currently that is arcanist. That's it. It's as simple as that. You are trying really hard to avoid that simple truth.

And when scorepushers show which class is the strongest it usually start to become a meta that large potion of playerbase participating in group content will follow. Why wouldn't they if that's the strongest choice possible and quite frankly atm also one of the easiest to play.

I should have mentioned that when I meant shield ultimate I meant in a tank or healer role.

I am not avoiding the truth, it sounds like we okay two different styles in the game. You seem to be a score pusher, which is fine and I am not. I base my opinion on Arcanist based on that in PvP I am so much better on other classes, but Arcanist I have more fun. In PvE Arcanist is easier to use for me, I would actually feel comfortable going into a vet dlc dungeon but I feel like Arcanist is a one trick pony that heavily relies on one thing which is a huge draw back for me. It’s why even if I am comfortable I know one slight gust of wind from The Hammer will bring it down.

Arcanist healers and tanks are also barely using it especially in more optimised enviroments. They occasionally slot it for regen passives but they don't use it. In group runs they will be using either horn or glyphic ulti. If You want a class in the group that will survive everything with an ultimate than You take a DK. There are even strategies resolving around DK with magma shell like triple mini skip in vCR HM. Also why would You bring up ulti that tanks and healers use when whole conversation we had was almost exclusively about DDs.

Main issue is that You have Your personal opinion based on running in suboptimal setups and getting suboptimal results while I am trying to look at arcanist in more optimal enviroment while also trying to support my claims with actual data not just opinions.

OtarTheMad

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

Like I said if you are basing your opinion on ESO logs and the top of the leaderboard then I think you’re looking at things the wrong way.

The players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores. You ever think the reason Arcanist is so highly used in those is because of the shield ultimate which is way too powerful right now? Score pushers care about scores…. That’s it. If doing the griddy with no armor got you better scores they’d do it. If using that troll weapon ZOS puts in the crown store near April Fools, the broom, got those they’d use it. Doesn’t mean the class is overpowered or anything like that. It just means that for their purpose, it works until it doesn’t… which usually means until other skill lines or class is released or a class or skill line have something over-buffed.

Nothing wrong with score chasing and doing hard mode stuff… just not for me and it’s a small part of the game so things shouldn’t be changed around it.

What shield ultimate? No arcanist DD in top score runs have class shield ultimate slotted. Why even would they? At this point I am starting to think You may not fully know what You are talking about.

I agree that "the players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores". And the first most important thing that majority of scorepushing DD players will do is choosing the strongest DD class and currently that is arcanist. That's it. It's as simple as that. You are trying really hard to avoid that simple truth.

And when scorepushers show which class is the strongest it usually start to become a meta that large potion of playerbase participating in group content will follow. Why wouldn't they if that's the strongest choice possible and quite frankly atm also one of the easiest to play.

I should have mentioned that when I meant shield ultimate I meant in a tank or healer role.

I am not avoiding the truth, it sounds like we okay two different styles in the game. You seem to be a score pusher, which is fine and I am not. I base my opinion on Arcanist based on that in PvP I am so much better on other classes, but Arcanist I have more fun. In PvE Arcanist is easier to use for me, I would actually feel comfortable going into a vet dlc dungeon but I feel like Arcanist is a one trick pony that heavily relies on one thing which is a huge draw back for me. It’s why even if I am comfortable I know one slight gust of wind from The Hammer will bring it down.

Arcanist healers and tanks are also barely using it especially in more optimised enviroments. They occasionally slot it for regen passives but they don't use it. In group runs they will be using either horn or glyphic ulti. If You want a class in the group that will survive everything with an ultimate than You take a DK. There are even strategies resolving around DK with magma shell like triple mini skip in vCR HM. Also why would You bring up ulti that tanks and healers use when whole conversation we had was almost exclusively about DDs.

Main issue is that You have Your personal opinion based on running in suboptimal setups and getting suboptimal results while I am trying to look at arcanist in more optimal enviroment while also trying to support my claims with actual data not just opinions.

LoL, why do you keep saying suboptimal setup? I am also not getting suboptimal results, I am getting average results and my setup is just fine. There isn't really any content that I look at and say "man, I wish I could do that." 50k-60k (which on trials dummy is like 100k-120kish) is not average. You are basing your opinion on endgame trials and leaderboards, class changes just shouldn't be based on that.

Galeriano

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Arcanist isnt op, that's why in all trifecta push score groups all dds are arcanists ( with 2 supports dk/sorc/necro okay )

Because the class is easy to play. And when you bring easy to play class for your trifectas, you tend to succeed that run more often. It allows DDs to actually die less because there's less things to keep in mind since bosses hit back unlike idle dummy that get parsed on. Flails + beam + ult combo is as easy as it gets to get reasonable DPS. But you still need trial gears and rotation mastery to hit top notch DPS that is on similar levels to other classes.

No it because cleave damage on boss.

And yes, innate nature of their damage being AoE makes it so that you don't have to adjust in between fights. And how does their nature of damage being cleave make them OP? More than anything, other classes need their passives updated. Since some classes passives and skills are stuck way back in the beginning of the game or made worse since then because of all the nerf callings.

It's not just AoE. It's combionation of dmg, sustain and survivability. Arcanist have all of these aspects either the best or one of the best accros the board.

Just sustain alone is insane on arcanist compared to other classes. When other classes in oder to produce high numbers need to consume on average 2-3k reource per second when arcanist uses fatecarver he is consuming like 1k resource per second while also having lots of resource return.

Than there is shield on pragmatic fatecarver that can reach over 25k which adds tons of passive survivability when needed.

It's also worth to mention that even CP system is favouring arcanist because when other classes need to find balance between single target and AoE dmg, arcanist have way easier time with CP distribution due to the fact majority of his dmg is AoE DoT.

As it is right now fatecarver is extremly overloaded ability that combineds too many things at once.

CP points distribution goes to whatever the class's primary viable defenses and offenses are. No one is having harder time deciding which points goes where with CP than other classes really. If someone does, that just means the person is playing the class without much knowledge of the class. Non-beginner wouldn't make a pvp NB or Sorc investing in DoT and AoE damage boost CPs when their class is all about direct, single target damage. Also, non-beginner player wouldn't make a PvE build without actually taking a look at what skills are their main sources of damage

Also, Fatecarver isn't really overloaded. It isn't stacked with named buffs as secondary like many of NB skills. All it does is damage that one can miss because it needs to be aimed. You can actually miss the damage on a boss that is just banging on your tank because for some reason, your aim apparently isn't targetting the boss despite looking straight at it.

Shield on Fatecarver isn't a strange thing. Almost every single offensive channel time skills have some sort of healing and/or damage reduction attached to them with the exception of Soul Assault (but then, it does force your opponent into blocking or kiting with fairly high damage). Shield is another form of damage mitigation in the game that hadn't been used by ZOS before on channel time skills and is thematic to the class. It is consistent with other channel skills in the game.

Sustain, I don't know. This is too subjective for the most part, because it depends on the player's resource management skills as I've come to learn. Not everyone can sustain equally on the same recovery number. So, due to 'your experience may vary' factor, won't comment further than this.

The difference is that most classes have way less distinctive primary sources of dmg. When other classes have like 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 split between AoE and single target or between DoT and direct dmg arcanist deals around 90% dmg as AoE and around 90% dmg as DoT so it's becoming way easier for him to buff his dmg through CPs because 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing more than 90% of his dmg when for other classes 2 specific slotable perks will be buffing maybe 70% of their dmg. Arcanist is literally getting 1 slottable perk for free simply because biting aura and thaumaturge for him works as good or even better than biting aura+thaumaturge+master at arms/deadly aim for other classes.

Fatecarver is overloaded. It's highest AoE+single target dmg, ranged ability with extremly low cost that can be also used as defensive tool with pragmatic fatecarver morph. Thing with named buffs is that in group content You will be getting most of the important named buffs anyway. This is why mentioned by You nb despite having tons of named buffs is now considered as one of the weakest group content DDs, because he is lacking unique features. Features that fatecarver is full of. Oh and guess what every ability needs to be aimed fatecarver just have different rules for aiming that are really not hard to learn.

Shield on a chanell ability is not consistant with other chanell skills in the game. Not 25k+ shield atleast. The difference between healing or dmg reduction on other chanelled abilities and fatecarver is that shield is Your HP extension. If You are about to take 40k hit that small dmg reduction or healing will do nothing for You but 25k shield will allow You to facetank that hit. And funnily enough arcanist also have healing on a flail.

If You want to produce high numbers You need to consume certain amount of resources and that's a fact. Resource managment can be subjective but arcanist is objectively way easier to manage resources than any other class as DD simply because fatacerver is extra cheap to use. Players resource managment skills won't change the fact that in order to produce high numbers You will have to use skills that cost 2-3k almost every second on every class except arcanist. That also gives arcanist way more freedom to micromanage sets like coral riptide.

As I've said, channeled abilities almost always has a defensive aspect attached to it, especially when a channel is long. Shield on Fatecarver really is consistent as shield is a defensive aspect that ZOS hasn't attached to a long channel ability before. Just because it isn't x% damage reduction while channeling or heal for x% of the damage done doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game. Shield on Fatecarver is just enough to survive a boss heavy attack during channeling. It won't allow Arcanist to survive any better when the adds or other persistent mechanics come into play. Afterwards, either you spam beam and do pitiful amount of damage with just a single or no crux or you start dodging attacks and use 3 crux beam after the mechanics.

For Fatecarver to deal the amount of damage what other classes deal with stacks of DoTs and direct damage within the beam's channel time, Arcanist has to build up 3 Crux. 1 is easy if you run Inspired Scholarship. However, other 2 requires you to be casting generator. Since the beam is a channel and require build ups, the payoff has to be worth it as the channel locks your character in performing this act unless cancelled.

NB and Arcanist are in different situations. NB's problem stems from the class kits save for 2 DoTs being all centered around short bursts while bosses are literal damage sponges. And dungeons and trials often have large amount of trash/adds and so, NB and Sorc falls off in those regards as PvE contents are somewhat of exact opposite of what the class is for. So, no amount of buffs will fix them for PvE. Arcanist on the other hand is made for PvE, clearly designed to have more people engage in something beyond overland and non-DLC dungeons with the class. All the while, the class itself has to crutch hard on meta sets in PvP unlike NB where pretty much all sets could work.

And as I've said there is a difference between a heal, minor dmg reduction and 25k shield. Idea for shield on facarver may be ok but not the current value. Among all chanelled abilities secondary defensive effects it is the most OP thing in the game. Healing on chanelled abilities is way weaker than shield because there is way more sources of healing than shields especially in group content where You have an actuall healers. You said it Yourself that this shield allows to survive a boss heavy attack (I suppose that means some special hard hitting attack) which literally no other chanelled abilitiy allow to do. If Radiant Glory would give caster around 40-50% dmg reduction would You say it's fine? Because that's excatly the equavalent of survivability that pragmatic fatecavber provides with. Even without crux beam deals ok amount of dmg especially that there are multiple sources of passively getting crux stacks and if You want healing while doing more dmg You still have Flail.

Yes You need 3 stacks of crux to deal max amount of dmg on fatecarver. And? Literally every class have some mini game and some of them also require stacks while some of stack buildups requirements are even more strict than arcanist's beam. Every class have some specific ruleset for main abilities to deal bonus dmg. By Your logic nightblade should deal like 500k with merciless resolve procs because it reqires 5 stacks charged by light or heavy attacks. if arcanist deals the same dmg with beam alone as other classes with their full rotation of DoTs and direct dmg abilities You proved Yourself that arcanist beam is too strong because You can still have DoTs running while chanelling beam so that DoT dmg is literally free dmg that arcanist gets over every other class.

If nightblade and arcanist are so much different than why did You bring nightblade example in the firsat place. It was You who mentioned nightblade first. And yes I know nightblade and arcanist are in different situations. I said that myself in one of my earlier comments. Saying that no amount of buffs will fix nb or sorc in PvE is pure falacy. Every class can become a meta with proper adjustments which has been proven numoerous times accross the years. Saying that arcanist is made for PvE is also a pure falacy. Arcanist in its current state is just class created to make money. It's strong in both PvE and PvP. There are even specific features on arcanist designed with PvP in mind for example interrupt immunity on pragmatic fatecarver shield was added purely because of PvP. Saying that all sets work on nb is also a pure falacy. Saying that arcanist requires certain sets to be strong in PvP is like saying nothing. Every class even nightblade requires proper setup to be effective in PvP and meta setups are not called meta without a reason. Justyfying arcanist current state by saying that it's designed for PvE is just silly.

I just wanted to say that the interrupt immunity thing is widely misunderstood. Yes, you cannot really go up to an Arcanist while it’s casting and block-bash them to interrupt but you can use pretty much ANY other knock back or stun or fear or whatever to stop the player from beaming. I’ve had this happen plenty of times to me and I’ve used Streak many times to stun a beaming Arcanist. The class is truly average to maybe above average in PvE and PvP. Only thing that makes it stand out is that it’s just a lot of fun to play.

Yes I know the difference between interrupt immunity and CC immunity. Interrupt immunity was added mainly with ranged spammable interrupts in mind like crushing shock for example. It was added to make beam more usefull in PvP although for solo play it's still not the most optimal choice which doesn't mean arcanist is weak in PvP. Arcanist currently is top class in PvE and above the average in PvP. People usually place it as 3rd or 4th best choice in PvP.

Saying that it's average or maybe above the average class in PvE is just insane. On ESO Logs in top 100 DPS leaderboards for every trial final HM boss fight there is 70/80/90+ arcanists. Asylum Sanctorium HM have 99 out of top 100 DDs being arcanists. Literally 70/80/90%+ of top trial DPS lists is filled by one class and You claim it's an average PvE class and only thing that makes it stand out is that it's fun to play? And if that's not enough it's also one of the most if not the most popular choice for tanks and healers in these runs. You really think that scorepushers care in their runs more about what is fun to play than what is the strongest to play?

Like I said if you are basing your opinion on ESO logs and the top of the leaderboard then I think you’re looking at things the wrong way.

The players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores. You ever think the reason Arcanist is so highly used in those is because of the shield ultimate which is way too powerful right now? Score pushers care about scores…. That’s it. If doing the griddy with no armor got you better scores they’d do it. If using that troll weapon ZOS puts in the crown store near April Fools, the broom, got those they’d use it. Doesn’t mean the class is overpowered or anything like that. It just means that for their purpose, it works until it doesn’t… which usually means until other skill lines or class is released or a class or skill line have something over-buffed.

Nothing wrong with score chasing and doing hard mode stuff… just not for me and it’s a small part of the game so things shouldn’t be changed around it.

What shield ultimate? No arcanist DD in top score runs have class shield ultimate slotted. Why even would they? At this point I am starting to think You may not fully know what You are talking about.

I agree that "the players who do those will use and do anything that gets them higher and better scores". And the first most important thing that majority of scorepushing DD players will do is choosing the strongest DD class and currently that is arcanist. That's it. It's as simple as that. You are trying really hard to avoid that simple truth.

And when scorepushers show which class is the strongest it usually start to become a meta that large potion of playerbase participating in group content will follow. Why wouldn't they if that's the strongest choice possible and quite frankly atm also one of the easiest to play.

I should have mentioned that when I meant shield ultimate I meant in a tank or healer role.

I am not avoiding the truth, it sounds like we okay two different styles in the game. You seem to be a score pusher, which is fine and I am not. I base my opinion on Arcanist based on that in PvP I am so much better on other classes, but Arcanist I have more fun. In PvE Arcanist is easier to use for me, I would actually feel comfortable going into a vet dlc dungeon but I feel like Arcanist is a one trick pony that heavily relies on one thing which is a huge draw back for me. It’s why even if I am comfortable I know one slight gust of wind from The Hammer will bring it down.

Arcanist healers and tanks are also barely using it especially in more optimised enviroments. They occasionally slot it for regen passives but they don't use it. In group runs they will be using either horn or glyphic ulti. If You want a class in the group that will survive everything with an ultimate than You take a DK. There are even strategies resolving around DK with magma shell like triple mini skip in vCR HM. Also why would You bring up ulti that tanks and healers use when whole conversation we had was almost exclusively about DDs.

Main issue is that You have Your personal opinion based on running in suboptimal setups and getting suboptimal results while I am trying to look at arcanist in more optimal enviroment while also trying to support my claims with actual data not just opinions.

LoL, why do you keep saying suboptimal setup? I am also not getting suboptimal results, I am getting average results and my setup is just fine. There isn't really any content that I look at and say "man, I wish I could do that." 50k-60k (which on trials dummy is like 100k-120kish) is not average. You are basing your opinion on endgame trials and leaderboards, class changes just shouldn't be based on that.

Because it is suboptimal and You are getting suboptimal results. Your setup can be fine for You but it doesn't mean that it is the most optimal in general sense. You don't know how much You would get on a trial dummy until You try it. 50-60k does not mean You will be getting 120k on a dummy and in all honesty i highly doubt You will get to that value but You're free to prove me wrong. You didn't even specify where do You get that 50-60k so it sounds really vague. And I can assure You whatever You will get in Your current mag based setup after switching to stam and optimising for it You will get better results right away. It's not an opinion based on a endgame trials and leaderboards it's an opinion based on math, logic and facts.

SandandStars

I tried arcanist for awhile cause it was new, yeah?

I found that next to templar, arc is the most boring play style available.

Youre tanky as heck, too tanky to be fun, actually, and your only effective offensive skills (fatecarver or tide king) require your opponent to be cc’d/frozen. So you pretty much run around looking for things that are immobilized and beaming them.

“Like shooting ducks in a barrel.”

I think a lot of players are flocking to arcanist in PVP because it is easy to survive. But they will get bored with it before long.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

ADarklore

I remember when both Warden and Necromancer were released. You saw a ton of 'please nerf' threads about them, yet, you don't find that with Arcanist. Which IMO, indicates most players are fine with Arcanist as it is. I'm not sure ZOS would want to alienate a large number of players like what occurred during a certain infamous patch that saw many players leave the game. Furthermore, ZOS created this specific crux-based system unique to Arcanist, which means they are more difficult to balance against other classes because they are limited with their skill choices. To nerf their crux-based skills would be ZOS admitting they were somehow wrong in their design, which I don't expect will happen, and I agree because I think Arcanist design currently is well-rounded and balanced. If anything, the other class skill designs need to be improved in a similar fashion.

reazea

lakaisl wrote: »

All you see is the bible beam in Battlegrounds... heaps of damage and way to sustainable.
Its reaching a point where it is just ridiculous.

So your problem is with one skill, not the whole class.

Galeriano

ADarklore wrote: »

I remember when both Warden and Necromancer were released. You saw a ton of 'please nerf' threads about them, yet, you don't find that with Arcanist. Which IMO, indicates most players are fine with Arcanist as it is. I'm not sure ZOS would want to alienate a large number of players like what occurred during a certain infamous patch that saw many players leave the game. Furthermore, ZOS created this specific crux-based system unique to Arcanist, which means they are more difficult to balance against other classes because they are limited with their skill choices. To nerf their crux-based skills would be ZOS admitting they were somehow wrong in their design, which I don't expect will happen, and I agree because I think Arcanist design currently is well-rounded and balanced. If anything, the other class skill designs need to be improved in a similar fashion.

Big difference is that warden and necro were heavily dominating in PvP, arcanist don't. It's just a strong class in PvP but it doesn't have the level of strenght warden or necro had at their releases. Most of the complaints about warden and necro when they were released was PvP related. Warden specifically was getting zero complaints when it comes to PvE because it was never a top PvE DD, it was just one of the top choices for healers and decent choice for tanks. People tend to complain way less when something is broken in PvE than when something is broken in PvP because in PvE it's a mob that's on reciving end when in PvP it's other player and PvE mobs do not have forum accounts.

I can agree that most people are fine with arcanist because why wouldn't they. People like to be strong especially if that strenght comes easily. That doesn't mean something is ok and should be left as it is. Most people were fine with oakensoul HA setups during their prime despite the fact those were unbalanced which devs themselves confirmed and these setups were tuned down later on.

ZoS also created corpse system for necro and abilities based around it were changed later on so going by Your logic ZoS already admitted that " they were somehow wrong in their design" so we already have precedent. Going by Your logic they admit they were wrong about something with every year because they edit and change lots of abilities. Crux system really doesn't make arcanist harder to balance. It's really nothing that inventive it's just more extended method of building stacks and building stacks was present in the game for some classes for years already.

Arcanist currently is overpowered especially in group PvE which You can see just by visiting ESO logs. It's most popular choice for DDs and one of the top choices for tanks and healers. And I am not just talking about top score runs I am talking also about mid and low tier of gameplay. In all of them arcanists perform better than other classes. Bringing other classes to arcanist level would just mean further increase of overall power creep which always after some time end up with a patch designed to lower overal power creep by significant nerfs accros the board. It would basically mean that we would get massive nerfs that people hate so much way faster.

OtarTheMad

ADarklore wrote: »

I remember when both Warden and Necromancer were released. You saw a ton of 'please nerf' threads about them, yet, you don't find that with Arcanist. Which IMO, indicates most players are fine with Arcanist as it is. I'm not sure ZOS would want to alienate a large number of players like what occurred during a certain infamous patch that saw many players leave the game. Furthermore, ZOS created this specific crux-based system unique to Arcanist, which means they are more difficult to balance against other classes because they are limited with their skill choices. To nerf their crux-based skills would be ZOS admitting they were somehow wrong in their design, which I don't expect will happen, and I agree because I think Arcanist design currently is well-rounded and balanced. If anything, the other class skill designs need to be improved in a similar fashion.

Yeah, it’s so crazy that some are calling for nerfs and I do fear if something happens and ZOS listens we will have a repeat of people just leaving the game again. It goes against what ZOS preaches for combat which is play how you want. In recent years it seems to be play how others want you to.

I mean look at necro now. LoL. It got two major things nerfed which was the self-synergy and Blastbones and while Blastbones bounced back, the self-synergy is still trash and all the other offensive abilities aren’t really worth slotting in most game modes, which a lot of us told them way back in like 2019.

We will see what 2024 holds for Arcanist and even Necro but I am not hopeful.

lakaisl

reazea wrote: »

lakaisl wrote: »

All you see is the bible beam in Battlegrounds... heaps of damage and way to sustainable.
Its reaching a point where it is just ridiculous.

So your problem is with one skill, not the whole class.

No, Its the class as a whole with the major being the bible beam. Hope that helps.

Got to love the reaction that tries to state your entire opinion of a class on one sentence (which isn't an opnion but an observation). I mean are you trying to provoke something?

moo_2021

lakaisl wrote: »

All you see is the bible beam in Battlegrounds... heaps of damage and way to sustainable.
Its reaching a point where it is just ridiculous.

in under 50 BG, arcanists are running the whole show.

above 50 it's less an issue.

but my self healing tank arcanist constantly do higher dps than all my other classes by just clicking two buttons, in both pvp and pve.

also it can't even run out of magica because the channeling cost is so low.

SmellyUnlimited

So, the solution sounds like we all just start playing Arcanists? Just one solid Care Bear stare of green lasers.