What I noticed in Battlegrounds...

Brakkish

At this point; I'm just excited to see people discussing BG's - no matter what side of the fence.

boi_anachronism_

The main reason I have heard over and over is that the objective ques would be a ghost town and frankly i dont disagree. The other issue is that objective would be a never ending parade of tanky healer and permablock tanks which would also be miserable. Honestly I enjoy both but im also incredibly irritated when everything becomes dm when i just want my daily xp. I tend to just skip my daily as a result and only go in when im looking for a small scale dm otherwise i just head to cyrodiil and call it good. Im not sure how to reconcile it tbh.

Arcanasx

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

The main reason I have heard over and over is that the objective ques would be a ghost town and frankly i dont disagree. The other issue is that objective would be a never ending parade of tanky healer and permablock tanks which would also be miserable. Honestly I enjoy both but im also incredibly irritated when everything becomes dm when i just want my daily xp. I tend to just skip my daily as a result and only go in when im looking for a small scale dm otherwise i just head to cyrodiil and call it good. Im not sure how to reconcile it tbh.

Part of the reason why objective queues won't be as popular (just as they weren't years ago) as DM is because the bolded part is what makes up a significant portion of objective players, who only want to get the daily and be done for the rest of that day.

So theoretically, they could have twice the amount of objective players compared to DM players, yet the DM only queue will be more active simply because DM players would actually continue to play throughout the day, while much of the objective crowd leans more towards one and done.

brtomkin

I expect an objective mode would still attract players that only want to farm kills.

StaticWave

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

The main reason I have heard over and over is that the objective ques would be a ghost town and frankly i dont disagree. The other issue is that objective would be a never ending parade of tanky healer and permablock tanks which would also be miserable. Honestly I enjoy both but im also incredibly irritated when everything becomes dm when i just want my daily xp. I tend to just skip my daily as a result and only go in when im looking for a small scale dm otherwise i just head to cyrodiil and call it good. Im not sure how to reconcile it tbh.

There are 2 things I've seen consistently from objective games:

1) If solo queuing, you either get people who know what they're doing (probably seasoned DM or OBJ players) or you get people who don't know what they're doing (PvErs who are only there for dailies).

In a DM queue, you are at least guaranteed to get 1 good player on your team because the majority of the BG community only play DM.

2) True OBJ games (No DM players) are incredibly boring. You have speed demons who run so fast you can't even kill them with range. You have permablock tanks with healers hogging the Chaos Ball or Flag.

Apart from the constant PvPing that DM offers, I think DM is just more appealing from a PvP perspective. I do BGs when Cyrodiil is laggy, so having to go through the 2 issues above is unappealing. We used to have a DM only queue, and I think the BG community would absolutely love ZOS bringing it back.

SandandStars

I like the variety, with deatmatch being a slight favorite over ctr or domination.

I don’t like bg weekends bc I don’t want to play any of the modes for 4 days straight. Good God, man! What a terrible idea!

#1 pet peeve in bgs is people who sit up in the base pew pewing. That, imo, was a mistake in the game design.

OBJnoob

SandandStars wrote: »

I like the variety, with deatmatch being a slight favorite over ctr or domination.

I don’t like bg weekends bc I don’t want to play any of the modes for 4 days straight. Good God, man! What a terrible idea!

#1 pet peeve in bgs is people who sit up in the base pew pewing. That, imo, was a mistake in the game design.

Yeah, this is me too. Variety is important. I like CtR, Chaosball, and Deathmatch in that order. The flag games aren't bad, but standing on flags does make for a boring objective. I'm perhaps tired of it after years of doing the same in Cyrodiil. Perhaps that's why I don't enjoy DM as much as some other people as well. As someone who has basically only ever PvPed I just don't feel like my time has lacked raw killing.

But I'm pretty happy with whatever as long as it varies. I enjoy the BG weekends... All of them... For exactly two days. I really wish BG weekends were just that-- a weekend.

CameraBeardThePirate

OBJnoob wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

I like the variety, with deatmatch being a slight favorite over ctr or domination.

I don’t like bg weekends bc I don’t want to play any of the modes for 4 days straight. Good God, man! What a terrible idea!

#1 pet peeve in bgs is people who sit up in the base pew pewing. That, imo, was a mistake in the game design.

Yeah, this is me too. Variety is important. I like CtR, Chaosball, and Deathmatch in that order. The flag games aren't bad, but standing on flags does make for a boring objective. I'm perhaps tired of it after years of doing the same in Cyrodiil. Perhaps that's why I don't enjoy DM as much as some other people as well. As someone who has basically only ever PvPed I just don't feel like my time has lacked raw killing.

But I'm pretty happy with whatever as long as it varies. I enjoy the BG weekends... All of them... For exactly two days. I really wish BG weekends were just that-- a weekend.

I know we disagree on how well-designed objective modes are or aren't (I still think they could use some work), but I do want to chime in and say variety is the spice of life. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a DM queue and would likely spend 90% of my time there, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the other modes. Chaos Ball (the most well balanced of the objective modes imo) is an absolute blast at times.

If anything, that's why I wish ZOS would update the modes a little bit. I'm of the opinion that there are changes they could make to the objective modes that would make them much more enjoyable for the turbo-DM crowd. If they were more enjoyable for both crowds, we'd have less opposition between the crowds. An easy example would be just shrinking the size of the maps - CTR tends to be much more fun and balanced on Foyada Quarry or Ularra than on Arcane University or Deeping Drome.

Again, not trying to start another debate, just want to point out my love for objective based PvP (my name is literally a Team Fortress 2 reference, a game that doesnt even have a deathmatch), and how I feel that BGs do objectives worse than other games.

OBJnoob

@CameraBeardThePirate I seem to be (one of?) the most frequent forum-goer who really likes objective BGs, so I have sorta intentionally taken it upon myself to be the spokesperson. When threads like these start dying out-- or perhaps somehow never contained a debate to begin with-- you see a lot more of the OBJ crowd being represented. It seems to me like there's a fair number of us, so that's worth defending.

BUT. Other than a few moments where I allowed myself to get carried away, it's never been personal.

I'm glad you enjoy Chaosball. Chaosball is my wife's favorite to watch and it is my 2nd favorite. It's pretty Deathmatchy I'd say, so I see why you like it.

I buck back against some of the ideas proposed to change OBJ modes because some of them are just kinda blatantly removing the OBJ from the equation. Like a Domination mode with only one flag, for random example. How would that be meaningfully different from Deathmatch? And another point of contention for me is the desire to make BGs be only 2 teams. Every other game I've PvPed in has only 2 teams. Why cut out what makes it original?

But, like you, I'm not trying to start a debate here. Just responding in kind.

I would be very happy if a DM que were put alongside an OBJ que. I would be very happy if some small changes were made to OBJ modes. But the changes I like aren't really changing the mode... Just fixing what I consider to be glitches. People holding chaosballs on ledges, or picking up relics even though they're being bashed.

And I support other small suggestions as well, about limiting the speed of Chaosball holders or something.

The OBJ modes aren't perfect. But as you said variety is the spice of life. So while permablock tanks and 50k HP Wardens and speed capped runners do kinda annoy me... I'm honestly glad they have a use, because I am tired of both playing as AND fighting against your average tanky brawler. It's very limiting. As is the need to run around as a 4-stack to be anything other than a burden to your team.

Brakkish

As tempting as it is to champion DM or OBJ (or any change to BGs for that matter) - I ultimately save myself that energy by understanding that changes to BGs in any shape or form is VERY VERY unlikely given the lack of change in over 5yrs.

I double DOG DARE you ZOS to prove me wrong (please).

CameraBeardThePirate

OBJnoob wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate I seem to be (one of?) the most frequent forum-goer who really likes objective BGs, so I have sorta intentionally taken it upon myself to be the spokesperson. When threads like these start dying out-- or perhaps somehow never contained a debate to begin with-- you see a lot more of the OBJ crowd being represented. It seems to me like there's a fair number of us, so that's worth defending.

BUT. Other than a few moments where I allowed myself to get carried away, it's never been personal.

I'm glad you enjoy Chaosball. Chaosball is my wife's favorite to watch and it is my 2nd favorite. It's pretty Deathmatchy I'd say, so I see why you like it.

I buck back against some of the ideas proposed to change OBJ modes because some of them are just kinda blatantly removing the OBJ from the equation. Like a Domination mode with only one flag, for random example. How would that be meaningfully different from Deathmatch? And another point of contention for me is the desire to make BGs be only 2 teams. Every other game I've PvPed in has only 2 teams. Why cut out what makes it original?

But, like you, I'm not trying to start a debate here. Just responding in kind.

I would be very happy if a DM que were put alongside an OBJ que. I would be very happy if some small changes were made to OBJ modes. But the changes I like aren't really changing the mode... Just fixing what I consider to be glitches. People holding chaosballs on ledges, or picking up relics even though they're being bashed.

And I support other small suggestions as well, about limiting the speed of Chaosball holders or something.

The OBJ modes aren't perfect. But as you said variety is the spice of life. So while permablock tanks and 50k HP Wardens and speed capped runners do kinda annoy me... I'm honestly glad they have a use, because I am tired of both playing as AND fighting against your average tanky brawler. It's very limiting. As is the need to run around as a 4-stack to be anything other than a burden to your team.

FWIW, I think limiting flag games to a single flag is kind of silly - you're right in that it would basically just be DM. I also think there are too many flags in their current forms however - a middle ground that still leaves room for repositioning/attacking but cuts back on the long swathes of time you can go without ever seeing an enemy in these modes would be ideal.

And by all means, keep being the de facto "spokesperson" for objective modes. If there's the slightest chance that BGs ever get more love, it'll only be because there are vocal players discussing the highs and lows of the mode.

OBJnoob

@CameraBeardThePirate I agree that Domination has too many flags. I think Crazy King is just about right though. I think Domination could be made better if there were 3 flags. They could continue moving occasionally or honestly they could just stay put also. One flag for each team... Creating a theoretical tie situation that teams would have to risk breaking.

Yes I suppose I'll keep touting the benefits of OBJ modes. For some reason it has become important to me.

I'm glad you explained your name to me. I've wondered about it more than once. My name is pretty obvious. I like OBJ and I'm sarcastically calling myself a noob because people who "camp" an OBJ are often looked at as such. It wasn't made for ESO and it wasn't made for these forums either... But it is amusing that I'm now so frequently involved in these discussions.

When I play PubG (the only other game I really play,) 99% of people assume it stands for Odell Beckham Jr, the football player. I get so tired of explaining. For one thing, I don't happen to be a fan of his. For another, how do more GAMERS not know what OBJ means??

moo_2021

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Hmm let's see.

• AFK at spawn
• Dying instantly with 19k health and no armor
• Sweaty deathmatchers farming players and ignoring objectives
• One or two mid-tier PvPers who actually want to win (this is you)

This is why you have this [Snip] group in Battlegrounds.

[Edited for removed content]

I loved the second kind of players!

The third kind isn't so bad. They enable other teammates to concentrate on objective and it's always great to have one or two of such.

I'm the fifth kind who is always confused by random maps and tons of lights and CC around, trying to stay alive and heal and support whoever doing objectives. It's fun as long as there is population.

The really bad thing here is AFK, especially when the spawn point is unreachable.

Alharion

I wonder if armor is still recognized in battlegournd, because now, we die in a disgusting way, it's the worst situation ever seen in this game.

I wanted to play my DK again, but apparently it's impossible to play it with a stick, the life drops exponentially, clearly, I don't understand anything about this class any more...

OBJnoob

Alharion wrote: »

I wonder if armor is still recognized in battlegournd, because now, we die in a disgusting way, it's the worst situation ever seen in this game.

I wanted to play my DK again, but apparently it's impossible to play it with a stick, the life drops exponentially, clearly, I don't understand anything about this class any more...

What do you mean, play it with a stick? You mean a staff?

I don't personally find I get "blown up" in battlegrounds very often. If I get caught out and dogpiled sometimes I die pretty stinkin fast but... It normally makes sense to me. And I sometimes lose 1v1s to people that really seem to have some impressive damage and maybe I'm a little bit in wonder as to how they do it... But I always live long enough to have returned fire a bit, block a bit, and go through some healing rotations.

I hardly ever feel like I'm made of paper though. Out of curiosity, how much armor does your character actually have? I'm curious, because I don't normally use all that much on my characters. Like I only have about 30k on my DK, and that's only because he's a Nord. My other characters tend to have even less.

I find you can definitely over-commit on armor to the point where now you struggle to self-heal because you didn't end up with enough weapon damage. Could this be the case?

Well timed dodges and blocks, some sort of snare removal and/or major expedition to help from getting focused too hard, and good self-healing have always seemed more useful to me than stacking raw armor.

Alharion

OBJnoob wrote: »

Alharion wrote: »

I wonder if armor is still recognized in battlegournd, because now, we die in a disgusting way, it's the worst situation ever seen in this game.

I wanted to play my DK again, but apparently it's impossible to play it with a stick, the life drops exponentially, clearly, I don't understand anything about this class any more...

What do you mean, play it with a stick? You mean a staff?

I don't personally find I get "blown up" in battlegrounds very often. If I get caught out and dogpiled sometimes I die pretty stinkin fast but... It normally makes sense to me. And I sometimes lose 1v1s to people that really seem to have some impressive damage and maybe I'm a little bit in wonder as to how they do it... But I always live long enough to have returned fire a bit, block a bit, and go through some healing rotations.

I hardly ever feel like I'm made of paper though. Out of curiosity, how much armor does your character actually have? I'm curious, because I don't normally use all that much on my characters. Like I only have about 30k on my DK, and that's only because he's a Nord. My other characters tend to have even less.

I find you can definitely over-commit on armor to the point where now you struggle to self-heal because you didn't end up with enough weapon damage. Could this be the case?

Well timed dodges and blocks, some sort of snare removal and/or major expedition to help from getting focused too hard, and good self-healing have always seemed more useful to me than stacking raw armor.

yes, "staff" sorry x)

In the end, I was a bit hasty, I changed a few spells when I was on break from class and now things are much better

OBJnoob

Haha, glad to hear it.

fall0athboy

StaticWave wrote: »

I'm a DM player and I don't like objective game modes but for some reason they are always the maps I get. Don't blame the players, blame ZOS for not separating objective and DM queues. I would personally never queue for anything but DM if that was reimplemented.

But we all know that isn't going to happen because the majority of BG players favor DM and the moment ZOS separates the queue again the majority will only queue for DM and the forums will complain just like before.

What I wish they'd do is just award everyone the non-DM achievements, and just get rid of the other modes.

Then I would never have to do BG again. I genuinely do not understand how people find DM fun.

Eyr0n

shadyjane62 wrote: »

PvP should not be part of endeavors.

[Edited quote]

So just because you do not enjoy pvp, you think people that do should not have the opportunity to earn endeavors doing what they like ?

Following your way of thinking, pve shouldn't be part of endeavors because it forces pvpers into doing something they dont want..

Endeavors have always multiple options, so nothing forces you to do a BG to earn them, but some (including me) are happy when we have endeavors related to our favorite aspect of the game