We get it ZOS you hate stealth play . . .

Sedare38

Can you please calm down with the sheer volume of things that can now break stealth, detect stealth, or otherwise just prevent it? The list has grown and half of them weren't even mentioned in patch notes. You just tucked it away as a new feature of an ability or 3 or 8. But hey, keep negating the core mechanic of an ENTIRE CLASS and also dirty, nasty stage 4 vampires, and then least of all natural crouchers.

Cloak (Shadowy Disguise morph) needs to be the get out of jail free card (or at least aid) it once was: negate dot dmg during the duration, OR provide a dmg shield from dots only during duration (much like how warden dmg shields supposedly ONLY block range attacks), and possibly allow for a grace period from detection with a cooldown of some sort so it's not spammable--see I am open to compromise.

Finally, kill Sentry. There is no other gear set that negates an entire class. Just put it back to where it was: 30% range extension on detect abilities/potions, etc.

I don't care how much YOU or other people hate stealth play and gankers. It's a core gameplay style since gold with mechanics to back it. You've nerfed damage on it numerous times, introduced some of the worst metas to counteract it, etc. Now you're just mucking with the ability to cloak as a sneak up on option or get away option. Cloak is not greater than streak as 2 button presses don't let you get out of range attacks.

Either get rid of stealth completely already so players who like this play can stop limping along towards their inevitable doom, or do somethings to fix the state of it in favor of those who like it. Also, any fixes/adds needs to have 1-2 specific to the NB class as this is, and always will be its heart, then consider adding dark brotherhood abilities/passives that can actually be beneficial in pvp/pve outside of the quests for it, and then other improvements.

Thanks. Now bring on the anti-ganker hating peoples! :P

JanTanhide

No anti ganker here. I agree with you 100%.

ProudMary

NB's have one of if not the most versital tool boxes of skills to work with. If anything cloak should be easier to break and should cost more. There should be a 5 second cool down if an NB attacks from stealth. Asking for the ability to start a fight then stay cloaked for the entire fight is not a reasonable request.

I'd be totally down for getting rid of cloak skills on NB all together as you suggested. The ability for NB's to fight while invisible is a fundamentally unfair mechanic that never should have gone live IMO. As it is now NB's already have the strongest burst damage and the strongest burst heal. That should be enough.

Sedare38 wrote: »

Can you please calm down with the sheer volume of things that can now break stealth, detect stealth, or otherwise just prevent it? The list has grown and half of them weren't even mentioned in patch notes. You just tucked it away as a new feature of an ability or 3 or 8. But hey, keep negating the core mechanic of an ENTIRE CLASS and also dirty, nasty stage 4 vampires, and then least of all natural crouchers.

Cloak (Shadowy Disguise morph) needs to be the get out of jail free card (or at least aid) it once was: negate dot dmg during the duration, OR provide a dmg shield from dots only during duration (much like how warden dmg shields supposedly ONLY block range attacks), and possibly allow for a grace period from detection with a cooldown of some sort so it's not spammable--see I am open to compromise.

Finally, kill Sentry. There is no other gear set that negates an entire class. Just put it back to where it was: 30% range extension on detect abilities/potions, etc.

I don't care how much YOU or other people hate stealth play and gankers. It's a core gameplay style since gold with mechanics to back it. You've nerfed damage on it numerous times, introduced some of the worst metas to counteract it, etc. Now you're just mucking with the ability to cloak as a sneak up on option or get away option. Cloak is not greater than streak as 2 button presses don't let you get out of range attacks.

Either get rid of stealth completely already so players who like this play can stop limping along towards their inevitable doom, or do somethings to fix the state of it in favor of those who like it. Also, any fixes/adds needs to have 1-2 specific to the NB class as this is, and always will be its heart, then consider adding dark brotherhood abilities/passives that can actually be beneficial in pvp/pve outside of the quests for it, and then other improvements.

Thanks. Now bring on the anti-ganker hating peoples! :P

OBJnoob

You want cloak to be a "get out of jail free card," and in my opinion that's the problem. It should be, and is, a "keep yourself out of jail card." Jail, in this case, being seen chased and focused by an overpowering force. Once you've chosen a target, attacked it, and found out it won't die and may in fact kill you-- then you've put yourself in jail. And getting out of that jail should always, for any class, require more than one button. Otherwise how would any NB die, ever? And how would that be fair?

Being invisible is a pretty big advantage. Especially when it also gives you major savagery, major resolve, a guaranteed crit, and 300 weapon damage from vampire. It deserves to have lots of counters.

It's also worth noting that a good NB player, out in the open and visible for all to see, can stand toe to toe with a good player of ANY other class.

baselesschart

ProudMary wrote: »

There should be a 5 second cool down if an NB attacks from stealth.

I'm gonna stop you right there. No cooldowns. You could make an argument for ramping stealth cost but no cooldowns

Xarc

I don't think ZOS hate stealth mech, but many noobs do.
And ZOS are listening to them.

StaticWave

I've ganked on my stamsorc with no Cloak and I still did well. Seeing a NB qq is pure comedy lol.

IZZEFlameLash

Lol, yeah, with damage and self-heal like no other class, ZOS clearly hates NBs... /s

gariondavey

StaticWave wrote: »

I've ganked on my stamsorc with no Cloak and I still did well. Seeing a NB qq is pure comedy lol.

Especially when it is this individual. Asking for anything when you break tos everyday saying some of the most vile stuff mankind has ever seen to anyone who kills you in cyrodiil is pretty hilarious.

acastanza_ESO

Cut Spec Bow literally in half and only then can we even begin to have a reasonable discussion of the state of Nightblade.

Zabulus

Agree, Cloack gets revealed far too much. Almost useless now.
Did it changed anything in PvP potential for NB ? A bit, but we are still dangerous.
It only removed a fun way to play
Stealth ganking should come back. Its a shame removing features and fun in the game.

boi_anachronism_

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Cut Spec Bow literally in half and only then can we even begin to have a reasonable discussion of the state of Nightblade.

Okydoke so just bin the class entirely for pve? My guy there are other solutions that dont involve completely wiping it as a useful class for anything but pvp. That idea will never even be considered since pve is massive compared to pp between dungeons, area, trials, solo. Come up with something reasonable and devs might listen.

WaywardArgonian

The rules for stealth have been changed several times in ways that weren't always comprehensible so I agree there needs to be some consistency there. However, let's not pretend that issues with cloak render the skill let alone the class or playstyle useless.

Cloak is a tool that can still be used pretty effectively but if you hinge on just that for your survival (which is absolutely not necessary on a Nightblade in this day and age), you are taking a risk. This is the case now as it was years ago. A 22k hp permacloaking ganker with no plan B sets themselves up for the counterplay that is one vigilant player with a detect potion.

GooGa592

The only thing that has changed is that ZOS increased the detect range for detect pots. That's all.

With the strongest burst damage and strongest burst heal of any class NB's can just learn to deal with it. NB's that think they should be able to be invisible during the entire duration of a fight, a fight they usually initiate, just need to buck up and realize they're simply expecting an unfair fight that is heavily weighted in their favor.

Theignson

NB are super tanky now. You can use cloak as a purely offensive weapon to proc Vamp 300 weapon damage increase and guarantee crits.
Then once in a while it can get you out of trouble, too!

StaticWave

You can gank just with stage 4 vamp and a invis potion. NB is actually still the best at ganking even without Cloak because it gets 15% movement speed just for slotting Concealed, not to mention Major Berserk when leaving stealth lol.

Metemsycosis

No tears are more delicious than an xv1 ganker's.

notReclaimer

JanTanhide wrote: »

No anti ganker here. I agree with you 100%.

Same here, they should reduce the cost and give a damage shield to cloak.

reazea

notReclaimer wrote: »

JanTanhide wrote: »

No anti ganker here. I agree with you 100%.

Same here, they should reduce the cost and give a damage shield to cloak.

This is obviously a sarcastic post, right?

Galeriano

Sedare38 wrote: »

get rid of stealth completely already

Pretty harsh but if Sedare wants that I can't disagree.

Janni

Other than increasing the range of detection potions recently what have they done to affect cloak? Nothing. They made it stronger in fact. It used to be very super unreliable. Dots would pull you out of it. Ground aoes would pull you out of it, and even if you just entered stealth you could still be targeted for a short time afterward. This has all been addressed completely to the favor of nightblades to the point that they can literally use cloak as a mag dodgeroll!

As soon as you spot a nightblade they cloak and even if you are off gcd and immediately hit an aoe they are at a cooldown advantage so they can re-enter cloak before you have time to line up anything else. It literally requires using one of the stealth detection skills or potion now whereas before you could simply cast an aoe once and they easily get a skill off before they could hide again. Cloak is stronger now than I've ever seen it in the past.

And as far as the Sentry set goes... listen. No one is using that set by default, ok? If someone decided to put that on it's because you and your nightblade buddies have been ganking people over and over in the same place for a while and someone got sick of it. Be a little more tactical and don't hang around the same place after you score a few of those really awesome 4v1s.

gariondavey

Janni wrote: »

Other than increasing the range of detection potions recently what have they done to affect cloak? Nothing. They made it stronger in fact. It used to be very super unreliable. Dots would pull you out of it. Ground aoes would pull you out of it, and even if you just entered stealth you could still be targeted for a short time afterward. This has all been addressed completely to the favor of nightblades to the point that they can literally use cloak as a mag dodgeroll!

As soon as you spot a nightblade they cloak and even if you are off gcd and immediately hit an aoe they are at a cooldown advantage so they can re-enter cloak before you have time to line up anything else. It literally requires using one of the stealth detection skills or potion now whereas before you could simply cast an aoe once and they easily get a skill off before they could hide again. Cloak is stronger now than I've ever seen it in the past.

And as far as the Sentry set goes... listen. No one is using that set by default, ok? If someone decided to put that on it's because you and your nightblade buddies have been ganking people over and over in the same place for a while and someone got sick of it. Be a little more tactical and don't hang around the same place after you score a few of those really awesome 4v1s.

You deserve a cookie XD

ZeroAxis

Personally, I think the changes to detect pots and the prominent use of Sentry have been merited. I primarily play as a ganker and I honestly empathize with the general disdain as of late. The mobs of Nightblades running together is getting old. Ganking is supposed to be “assassination” in my opinion. Having 12 Nightblades pop out of stealth to vaporize one person is not funny, tactical, or even fair. If groups opt to stealth, I feel that the entire group should be revealed once one person in that group leaves stealth.

Veinblood1965

Seriously Sentry? The set can only be activated every thirty seconds, pretty much the same as a detection potion. I doubt anyone is really using it that much except as stated if NB's are being a pain to a group.

jasonleitch1_ESO

Ummm...Sorry if it was me, but it is just so, so fun. I started running backbar Sentry + detect pots on a ranged stam sorcerer shortly after the detect changes to protect zergs from bombers and find sappers (gankers) hitting our siegers.

Seriously though, the changes to detect are way overpowered and really need to be reduced. As it currently exists, I can see ALL stealthed players within render range. It is able to shut down an entire class and playstyle.

With Sentry + dectect pot timed correctly (easy do do), you can have 25.7 second detection uptime, 4.3 second down, then another 10 second uptime. Totalling, 35.7 seconds in an initial 40 second time frame (89.25% uptime) to see ALL stealthed players within render range. This does get thrown off a little during potion cooldown.

ZOS, please look into this issue. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

TechMaybeHic

I'm actually playing NB and not as good as some, and cloak is still fine for me. Way better than almost any other class has to get away. To want it any better is insane. It's not guaranteed to get you out of a jam but it shouldn't be.

Janni

ZeroAxis wrote: »

Personally, I think the changes to detect pots and the prominent use of Sentry have been merited. I primarily play as a ganker and I honestly empathize with the general disdain as of late. The mobs of Nightblades running together is getting old. Ganking is supposed to be “assassination” in my opinion. Having 12 Nightblades pop out of stealth to vaporize one person is not funny, tactical, or even fair. If groups opt to stealth, I feel that the entire group should be revealed once one person in that group leaves stealth.

I did used to think detection potions were way overboard but ever since the buffs to stealth in general they are very much necessary now. And while this setup might shutdown a single style of play it definitely doesn't shutdown the entire class. You also have to consider that all of this stuff is dedicated to exactly one style of play from one class. What other classes or skills have so many things dedicated to countering them? To me that speaks to how powerful of a mechanic it is in the first place. And it is still an opportunity cost. Wearing all that stuff to counter nightblades in cloak isn't going to help you much against anything else.

The only thing I think really should be fixed is that the user of such sets and potions should be marked so that the nightblade at least knows who is doing it and who to target if they want to counter it. More than fair at that point.

ZeroAxis

I agree. It would be nice to know who is exposing you for sure! Usually, it’s another nightblade in my experience haha

DrNukenstein

From how tilted people are over the modern meta-blade, you'd think they'd want the class to go back to the stealth play style.

So do you want the class to be well equipped for ganking or well equipped for brawling? Because the ganker kit really is not what it was pre U35.

OBJnoob

DrNukenstein wrote: »

From how tilted people are over the modern meta-blade, you'd think they'd want the class to go back to the stealth play style.

So do you want the class to be well equipped for ganking or well equipped for brawling? Because the ganker kit really is not what it was pre U35.

At this point I think I'd settle for just not being OP at both?

Heals_With_Orbs

ProudMary wrote: »

NB's have one of if not the most versital tool boxes of skills to work with. If anything cloak should be easier to break and should cost more. There should be a 5 second cool down if an NB attacks from stealth. Asking for the ability to start a fight then stay cloaked for the entire fight is not a reasonable request.

I'd be totally down for getting rid of cloak skills on NB all together as you suggested. The ability for NB's to fight while invisible is a fundamentally unfair mechanic that never should have gone live IMO. As it is now NB's already have the strongest burst damage and the strongest burst heal. That should be enough.

Sedare38 wrote: »

Can you please calm down with the sheer volume of things that can now break stealth, detect stealth, or otherwise just prevent it? The list has grown and half of them weren't even mentioned in patch notes. You just tucked it away as a new feature of an ability or 3 or 8. But hey, keep negating the core mechanic of an ENTIRE CLASS and also dirty, nasty stage 4 vampires, and then least of all natural crouchers.

Cloak (Shadowy Disguise morph) needs to be the get out of jail free card (or at least aid) it once was: negate dot dmg during the duration, OR provide a dmg shield from dots only during duration (much like how warden dmg shields supposedly ONLY block range attacks), and possibly allow for a grace period from detection with a cooldown of some sort so it's not spammable--see I am open to compromise.

Finally, kill Sentry. There is no other gear set that negates an entire class. Just put it back to where it was: 30% range extension on detect abilities/potions, etc.

I don't care how much YOU or other people hate stealth play and gankers. It's a core gameplay style since gold with mechanics to back it. You've nerfed damage on it numerous times, introduced some of the worst metas to counteract it, etc. Now you're just mucking with the ability to cloak as a sneak up on option or get away option. Cloak is not greater than streak as 2 button presses don't let you get out of range attacks.

Either get rid of stealth completely already so players who like this play can stop limping along towards their inevitable doom, or do somethings to fix the state of it in favor of those who like it. Also, any fixes/adds needs to have 1-2 specific to the NB class as this is, and always will be its heart, then consider adding dark brotherhood abilities/passives that can actually be beneficial in pvp/pve outside of the quests for it, and then other improvements.

Thanks. Now bring on the anti-ganker hating peoples! :P

Agree with Proud Mary. Im not against NB's at all, but Iam against this whole concept of unfair gameplay.

Lets face it an invisible enemy has an advantage over a visible one. As I said before we arent playing Aliens vs Predator.

All the pro NBs will argue they are vunerable once exposed, but my experience of pvp is that most of them are almost impossible to catch once revealed, either because of ridiculous mythic items or broken sets.

In my opinion stealth should only be allowed to either retreat or to do thief type skills, not gain a tactical battle advantage.

Quite often you are busy fighting annoying ball groups, then a NB appears out the blue and you are dead in 2-3 strikes, then a bunch other players cant catch them anyway. This is complete and utter nonsense.

This game shouldnt be about constantly looking over your shoulder because half of the eso population is invisible.

awful awful rubbish.

I've actually stopped playing PVP because of the sheer state its in. Its all about ball groups, invisible players, a dreadful tank meta, flapping wing wardens and dks and vamps who never die.