Daily Endeavor - Play a match ToT

Rkindaleft

I agree that you should be able to complete the endeavor in an NPC match.

I think the issue is that a game against a player can have a huge variance of length and can potentially be 20-30 minutes when several of the other endeavors can be done in a couple minutes maximum (like kill 10 skeletons.) I can imagine that a lot of people will just skip this one unless they make it doable against NPCs.

SilverBride

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Just put yourself on Offline mode and pretend it's an NPC. It's fine.

That won't make the other player go faster and not play out the timer on all their turns. Or not play huge long combos that I've never seen an NPC do.

Lugaldu

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I think the issue is that a game against a player can have a huge variance of length and can potentially be 20-30 minutes when several of the other endeavors can be done in a couple minutes maximum (like kill 10 skeletons.) I can imagine that a lot of people will just skip this one unless they make it doable against NPCs.

Due to the changes to the behavior of the AI, the games against NPCs and even against the beginner NPCs can now be quite long too.
Sure, no one is forced to play ToT, but I think there's a general problem with the incentive to do so. The game is time consuming and not worth it because the rewards are so bad. I've forced myself to do at least 100 rounds of ToT in Necrom over the last few months because of the lead, but so far without success. In all those games I've only gotten one single purple furnishing plan, otherwise nothing except 80 gold and a few mushrooms... It's just not fun.

Personofsecrets

Calastir wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

How could anyone possibly not enjoy playing a good old game of TOT on the casual ladder?

Let me try to explain:

I pay and reserve time to play an MMORPG like ESO, not a card game.

When someone reserves time and money to play an online card game, they don't expect to be pushed into an MMORPG either.

Digital card games are MMORPGs

jbrianj

Lugaldu wrote: »

Great. I saw today that a daily task is "complete a round of ToT". Okay, so I went to the nearest tavern to play a round ToT. Afterwards I wondered why it didnt count - well, because only one round of ToT against other players counts. Another totally unnecessary restriction! Why is only one round of ToT against other players valid and not against NPCs, that doesn't make any sense at all?

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

SilverBride

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

jbrianj

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

With that logic Trials should be soloable just for the sake of not being expected to do things with other players. If you can't do a daily endeavor that involves player-to-player activity, then just don't do it. You shouldn't expect being able to do _everything_ alone in an MMORPG.

I think you guys are wildly exaggerating the scope of the problem. An MMORPG wouldn't be an MMORPG without group or player vs. player activity. I think you should play singleplayer games if you expect every goal and every endeavor to be soloable.

SilverBride

jbrianj wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

With that logic Trials should be soloable just for the sake of not being expected to do things with other players. If you can't do a daily endeavor that involves player-to-player activity, then just don't do it. You shouldn't expect being able to do _everything_ alone in an MMORPG.

Trials are content created specifically for groups looking for a challenge. The expectation of grouping has been part of trials since the beginning.

ToT on the other hand has always had NPC matches for those that do not wish to play against others. So why is the endeavor restricted this way?

Necrotech_Master

jbrianj wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

With that logic Trials should be soloable just for the sake of not being expected to do things with other players. If you can't do a daily endeavor that involves player-to-player activity, then just don't do it. You shouldn't expect being able to do _everything_ alone in an MMORPG.

I think you guys are wildly exaggerating the scope of the problem. An MMORPG wouldn't be an MMORPG without group or player vs. player activity. I think you should play singleplayer games if you expect every goal and every endeavor to be soloable.

im pretty sure the problem as noted in this thread is that the daily endeavor text just says "do 1 tribute match" which theoretically should apply to an NPC or pvp tribute match

but when looking at the description text, it explicitly mentions match-made pvp tribute match is the only thing that counts

so either the requirements of the endeavor need to be changed to make any tribute match valid to complete it, or adjust the short text of the endeavor to say 1 match-made tribute match instead of "1 tribute match"

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

With that logic Trials should be soloable just for the sake of not being expected to do things with other players. If you can't do a daily endeavor that involves player-to-player activity, then just don't do it. You shouldn't expect being able to do _everything_ alone in an MMORPG.

Trials are content created specifically for groups looking for a challenge. The expectation of grouping has been part of trials since the beginning.

ToT on the other hand has always had NPC matches for those that do not wish to play against others. So why is the endeavor restricted this way?

In that same vein, ToT has always had player verse player specific reward tiers... So, an endeavor catering to that aspect of the ToT game isn't deviating from anything.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

With that logic Trials should be soloable just for the sake of not being expected to do things with other players. If you can't do a daily endeavor that involves player-to-player activity, then just don't do it. You shouldn't expect being able to do _everything_ alone in an MMORPG.

Trials are content created specifically for groups looking for a challenge. The expectation of grouping has been part of trials since the beginning.

ToT on the other hand has always had NPC matches for those that do not wish to play against others. So why is the endeavor restricted this way?

In that same vein, ToT has always had player verse player specific reward tiers... So, an endeavor catering to that aspect of the ToT game isn't deviating from anything.

The endeavor says to complete a game of ToT. Why should one way of doing this be excluded?

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jbrianj wrote: »

It's an MMORPG, so shouldn't you be expected to do things with or against other players?

No.

Just because multiple players are in the game world at the same time does not mean we are expected to do things with them.

With that logic Trials should be soloable just for the sake of not being expected to do things with other players. If you can't do a daily endeavor that involves player-to-player activity, then just don't do it. You shouldn't expect being able to do _everything_ alone in an MMORPG.

Trials are content created specifically for groups looking for a challenge. The expectation of grouping has been part of trials since the beginning.

ToT on the other hand has always had NPC matches for those that do not wish to play against others. So why is the endeavor restricted this way?

In that same vein, ToT has always had player verse player specific reward tiers... So, an endeavor catering to that aspect of the ToT game isn't deviating from anything.

The endeavor says to complete a game of ToT. Why should one way of doing this be excluded?

The title says that, the actual description is literally specific to player v player. This isn't new to endeavors either. Many of them have vague enough sounding titles with more detailed descriptions that tell you exactly what you need to do to complete them. The kill X enemy type ones come to mind, where the actual list tells you what enemies count for credit. This is no different.

And it is likely pvp ToT specific the same reason Kill X players is Cyrodil specific and doesn't count in BGs, ZOS doesn't care that you don't like some content, they want you to try it out or move along and do the other endeavors.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The endeavor says to complete a game of ToT. Why should one way of doing this be excluded?

The title says that, the actual description is literally specific to player v player.

That is part of the problem. It should be made clear and say "Complete a matched game of ToT".

The other part of the problem is that endeavors are getting way too specific which hinders many players from completing them, such as this one and the "Do 4 dungeons with a guildmate". Why restrict these this way?

bulbousb16_ESO

jcaceresw wrote: »

ToT is a total waste of time and can take hours.

ToT is awesome and matches take 5 minutes. Haha, hours.

SilverBride

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

ToT is a total waste of time and can take hours.

ToT is awesome and matches take 5 minutes. Haha, hours.

ToT matches take way longer than 5 minutes. Each turn is allowed 90 seconds and some players use that entire time for each of their turns. Even if they don't, it still isn't finished in 5 minutes unless someone concedes.

Calastir

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

How could anyone possibly not enjoy playing a good old game of TOT on the casual ladder?

Let me try to explain:

I pay and reserve time to play an MMORPG like ESO, not a card game.

When someone reserves time and money to play an online card game, they don't expect to be pushed into an MMORPG either.

Digital card games are MMORPGs

Well I tried.
Can't beat a contrarian.

spartaxoxo

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

ToT is a total waste of time and can take hours.

ToT is awesome and matches take 5 minutes. Haha, hours.

I haven't had any match-made games take only 5 minutes. Usually around 15 minutes. The 5 minute matches are usually against the NPCs because they are bad at the game. I've never had a match take hours and I certainly wouldn't want to play one that took at long. So, you're definitely right about that aspect. It does not take hours to complete a match.

Morimizo

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The endeavor says to complete a game of ToT. Why should one way of doing this be excluded?

The title says that, the actual description is literally specific to player v player.

That is part of the problem. It should be made clear and say "Complete a matched game of ToT".

The other part of the problem is that endeavors are getting way too specific which hinders many players from completing them, such as this one and the "Do 4 dungeons with a guildmate". Why restrict these this way?

Exactly! And I have to wonder how many folks actually scroll over the description for each endeavor before doing them, and would become more than slightly annoyed if "Complete a Trial" stated "Veteran Kyne's Aegis" in the description, or "Harvest 100 resources" was "Violet Coprinus in the Reach". I'll certainly be checking from now on, and won't be in the least surprised to find more and more restrictive requirements in the future (that will be happily ignored).

Necrotech_Master

Morimizo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The endeavor says to complete a game of ToT. Why should one way of doing this be excluded?

The title says that, the actual description is literally specific to player v player.

That is part of the problem. It should be made clear and say "Complete a matched game of ToT".

The other part of the problem is that endeavors are getting way too specific which hinders many players from completing them, such as this one and the "Do 4 dungeons with a guildmate". Why restrict these this way?

Exactly! And I have to wonder how many folks actually scroll over the description for each endeavor before doing them, and would become more than slightly annoyed if "Complete a Trial" stated "Veteran Kyne's Aegis" in the description, or "Harvest 100 resources" was "Violet Coprinus in the Reach". I'll certainly be checking from now on, and won't be in the least surprised to find more and more restrictive requirements in the future (that will be happily ignored).

most of them are usually descriptive enough

though the ones that were usually confusing were the "kill enemies" ones, as some of them to me dont seem to completely align with what you would expect

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

...most of them are usually descriptive enough...

All of them should be.

"Complete one ToT match using Activity Finder" wouldn't take up that much more room and would remove a lot of the confusion. But not putting these specific restrictions in the first place would be even better.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

...most of them are usually descriptive enough...

All of them should be.

"Complete one ToT match using Activity Finder" wouldn't take up that much more room and would remove a lot of the confusion. But not putting these specific restrictions in the first place would be even better.

im not disagreeing with that, can see my other comments on that

my comment that you quoted was more specifically referring to the "kill x enemies" endeavors, as there are some which should overlap but dont, or are not clear on what they should count

"kill chitinous foes" endeavor does not count insects or arachnids, even though there are many types of insects and arachnids which still have a chitin shell

after doing that one enough times ive learned what specifically counts for those, but i never would have figured out what counted for "chitinous foes" unless i looked at the tooltip description

Tommy_The_Gun

"Complete a round of ToT" kinda suggest that all you need to do is to play against easiest NPC and then immediately exit the ToT game (lose). It does not say to play against other player, nor it says to win a game - just to "complete one game" - which is exactly what losing / wining against an NPC would be.

Why it only counts if you play vs other player ? It is either a bug or they need to update the description, as it is very misleading.

bulbousb16_ESO

SilverBride wrote:

ToT matches take way longer than 5 minutes. Each turn is allowed 90 seconds and some players use that entire time for each of their turns. Even if they don't, it still isn't finished in 5 minutes unless someone concedes.

No, they don't. I timed one last night, it took 5 minutes. I think it was an Orgnum-spamming match. I lost. Having said that, 15 minutes is more the norm. But "hours" is ridiculous.

I've only ever had one person routinely take their full timer, even on their starting hand. That cheesed me off.

SilverBride

I never said they take hours. I said they take way more than 5 minutes.

bulbousb16_ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

I never said they take hours. I said they take way more than 5 minutes.

You didn't, but the original post I was criticizing said they take "hours". I just played a game against a very slow opponent, and it took 9 minutes.

After about losing about 6 matches in a row, I have officially joined the ranks of Orgnum spammers. Yay!

Personofsecrets

Calastir wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

How could anyone possibly not enjoy playing a good old game of TOT on the casual ladder?

Let me try to explain:

I pay and reserve time to play an MMORPG like ESO, not a card game.

When someone reserves time and money to play an online card game, they don't expect to be pushed into an MMORPG either.

Digital card games are MMORPGs

Well I tried.
Can't beat a contrarian.

The only subjective part of the statement that I identify is if a card game can be "roleplaying" because it can obvioulsy be the other things.

Designer quite obviously (sometimes so obviously that they let this idea be known explicitly) design game pieces for the purpose of players with certain mindsets grabbing onto those pieces and then building their own identity with them.

Sounds like role playing to me.

Lugaldu

Just to let you know guys, this week's weekly task is 9 round of ToT - against other players...

Tommy_The_Gun

- Kill 75 Dangerous Foes
- Complete 6 Battleground Matches
- Complete 9 Tribute Matches

So... um... what is the best location to farm 75 "Dangerous Foes" ? Is there an instanced one so I would not have to fight every other player for kills ?

Btw. 3 weekly endeavours and 2 out of 3 are PvP. Shouldn't it be like 1 PvP, 1 PvE and 1 Casual that does not involve end-game PvE ?

fizl101

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

- Kill 75 Dangerous Foes
- Complete 6 Battleground Matches
- Complete 9 Tribute Matches

So... um... what is the best location to farm 75 "Dangerous Foes" ? Is there an instanced one so I would not have to fight every other player for kills ?

Btw. 3 weekly endeavours and 2 out of 3 are PvP. Shouldn't it be like 1 PvP, 1 PvE and 1 Casual that does not involve end-game PvE ?

i'd go willowgrove atros for 75 dangerous foes or Maelstrom Arena for instanced

method__01

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

- Kill 75 Dangerous Foes
- Complete 6 Battleground Matches
- Complete 9 Tribute Matches

So... um... what is the best location to farm 75 "Dangerous Foes" ? Is there an instanced one so I would not have to fight every other player for kills ?

Btw. 3 weekly endeavours and 2 out of 3 are PvP. Shouldn't it be like 1 PvP, 1 PvE and 1 Casual that does not involve end-game PvE ?

Atoll of Immolation