So what is the difficulty people have with light attack weaving?

Warhawke_80

I haven't been around that long but didn't "weaving" start out as a bug that became a feature?

endgamesmug

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I haven't been around that long but didn't "weaving" start out as a bug that became a feature?

The way i understand it and maybe others can explain it alot better than me, but there is a 1 second global cooldown between abilties firing that can fit a light attack. So to me it just speaks efficiency which in other aspects of the game i really strive for so i like the concept.

Warhawke_80

endgamesmug wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I haven't been around that long but didn't "weaving" start out as a bug that became a feature?

The way i understand it and maybe others can explain it alot better than me, but there is a 1 second global cooldown between abilties firing that can fit a light attack. So to me it just speaks efficiency which in other aspects of the game i really strive for so i like the concept.

But say outside a a vet Trial is that really necessary? I've done most of the core game/and Dungeons/world bosses and haven't died once because I'm not weaving....so it's just for those that really want to be efficient as possible and dosen't have any real world value unless you play a very specific game type..say PVP or Vet Trials?

endgamesmug

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I haven't been around that long but didn't "weaving" start out as a bug that became a feature?

The way i understand it and maybe others can explain it alot better than me, but there is a 1 second global cooldown between abilties firing that can fit a light attack. So to me it just speaks efficiency which in other aspects of the game i really strive for so i like the concept.

But say outside a a vet Trial is that really necessary? I've done most of the core game/and Dungeons/world bosses and haven't died once because I'm not weaving....so it's just for those that really want to be efficient as possible and dosen't have any real world value unless you play a very specific game type..say PVP or Vet Trials?

Im a creature of habit so once i get the hang of something i do it everywhere regardless but yeah personal preference for sure. Just to add further yes i was in pvp for many years so i was optimising to be as good as i could, light weaving was just part & parcel of nightblade skill activation. Im not competing with anyone consciously these days but i still try and be the best i can be to ultimately have an easier time of it really.

BlueRaven

Does “I can do it, I just &$%#% hate it” count?

fizzylu

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I haven't been around that long but didn't "weaving" start out as a bug that became a feature?

It's not a bug, but an oversight in the way combat was designed. And instead of putting in the effort of fixing/reworking it to prevent the quite demanding high APM, spammy playstyle that is currently ESO from existing.... the devs decided to "embrace it", sadly with the support of some players.
And kind of off topic, but this current combat style of ESO is why I think I find classes to feel so lackluster and have no interest in playing most of them.

Sarannah

Personally I find it stupid looking and weird. We have all these powerful skills, but we keep needing to use light attacks for some odd reason.

And it seems like buttonsmashing. Also the timing for when the light attacks take place feels off.

PS: This is not even mentioning any latency, lag, and skill delay issues. Which sometimes happen/are bad in an online game.

fizzylu

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I find it stupid looking and weird. We have all these powerful skills, but we keep needing to use light attacks for some odd reason.

Yeah, I actually just returned to the game a couple weeks ago after a decently long break.... and I immediately thought "man, I didn't realize my khajiit looked this stupid while attacking". I was playing WoW and GW2 over the break, so maybe I became a little spoiled by the smoothness and nice animations of both those games.... but I do think that's partially why I'm severely lacking an interest in doing anything combat related for too long in ESO now.

Artim_X

I use an ergonomic controller, since my hands would start hurting with a regular controller (don't get me started with what mouse and keyboard does). I've tried light attack weaving, but to be frank my hands just can't do it. It could be due to an old injury I got back in the day, but I digress. I've been rocking a heavy attack playstyle, since One Tamriel. I always mess around on the PTS so I don't fall behind. I'm quite content that it still gets the job done.

I know it's been said to death but play how you want.

WySoSirius

Ping , latency , desync , ping , latency , desync

That's basically my LA weave 😂😂😂

vsrs_au

endgamesmug wrote: »

Judging by the common thread of isp reliability and distance to server, makes me wonder why any of us bother with eso in oceania 😆. Im 230-270 but i do pretty good in combat maybe i got used to predicting ahead of time because of the resulting delay 😆

I just accept the fact that I'll never do some content in ESO, since I prefer solo play. The network limitations (and the fact that my reflexes get worse over time) tend to rule out some content. I'm OK with that, because ESO has heaps of content even for me.

Tannus15

Sorry, these tears about ping and latency ... I just can't even.
Until you hit around 350 ping light attack weaving is fine because both the skills and the attacks have a half second queue.



But this. Omg this. I've never done anything in the game with ping below 200.

Kalevalatar wrote: »

My ping is usually 160-190 and even higher when doing events with multiple people around. This causes just minor lag, but just enough for skills not always firing, weapon bar won't switch or when I try to light attack between skills my char ends up just standing there like frozen. It's not huge delay, but juuust enough to stop the flow between skills, light attacks and bar switches.

Just what are you going on about mate.

For people with physical limitations I get it, that's a 100% legit complaint.
For wanting different play styles and options, I agree completely. I had a lot of fun doing some oakensorc runs last update and I think the AOE nerf to lightning staffs sucks. At the very least it should be distributed over the ticks (20% 30% 50%) instead of (0% 0% 100%) for example.

But don't blame your actually very good ping as far as literally every Australian playing the game for the fact that you can't manage it.
This is a you problem, not a lag problem.

Hapexamendios

Hands aren't as quick as they used to be.

Shihp00

I hope they remove it, so I can finally Quit and start playing competitive games again

James-Wayne

Just the fact the ping in my location is so bad the game doesnt read the combat actions fast enough.

Daoin

also i could be wrong on this but it does go hand in hand with animation cancel, so we are not really doing anything except calculations in our heads while scoring damage points and for some seeing is believing and doing a maths quiz in combat removes any fun to be had

BXR_Lonestar

endgamesmug wrote: »

I just thought it'd be good to figure out what was going wrong for people struggling with this concept. For me I feel blessed that after utterly failing my first class which was mag sorc, i became better with my 2nd character a khajit stamblade which with that class it was part of activating skills and building ulti etc as an nb. So when i had to use that habit on other classes later down the track it wasnt a big deal, im very far from the na server so skills not going off and swaps not happening that goes on but i just keep on with it what else is there to do really but carry on as usual. With practice and repetition it just gets easier for me for everything, familiarity and deeper experience with understanding. Thats my 2 cents anyway 😁

The concept isn't difficult, the problem is the execution of the concept. Latency issues, issues with barswapping, issues with abilities not firing off when you want them to, etc. is really the problem with the light attack weaving style of combat. You can practice for hours and hours on a dummy to try to nail down your rotation, but when it comes to it, any of these other issues can foul you up and cause you to parse lower than you might if all things were 100% ideal.

We now have Oakensoul to offer up a different style of combat outside of the Apply-dots-light-attack-weave-spammable paradigm of combat, but to be honest, this game's combat system is really lacking in variety. There are really only a couple of ways to build an endgame viable DPS build, which I think is the bigger problem here. Whether you're playing as a Sorc, Necro, DK, Templar, etc., if your playing DPS, combat is going to be virtually the same - layer on as many dots as you can with light attacks in between, then light attack weave with spammable, or don the Oakensoul with a couple of heavy attack sets, maintain good uptime on dots, and channel heavy attacks.

While there are a variety of builds that are viable, they're all just different builds to do the same exact thing, which is why the combat system in this game is by far and away my least favorite aspect of this game.

Paralyse

@Tannus15 0.038sec weaving average and 0 missed LA is extremely good especially with a >200ms ping. You must be north of 130k with that, easy. Those numbers are probably better than 95% or more of players.

Warhawke_80

fizzylu wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I haven't been around that long but didn't "weaving" start out as a bug that became a feature?

It's not a bug, but an oversight in the way combat was designed. And instead of putting in the effort of fixing/reworking it to prevent the quite demanding high APM, spammy playstyle that is currently ESO from existing.... the devs decided to "embrace it", sadly with the support of some players.
And kind of off topic, but this current combat style of ESO is why I think I find classes to feel so lackluster and have no interest in playing most of them.

I don't find classes as Lackluster as I do confusing....I basically ignore weaving all together...I do hope at some point the devs will finally say uncle and give us something a bit more logical.

SugaComa

Arthritis ... My rotation has to be slow cos I sometimes get "trigger finger" heavy attack comes naturally light attack just doesn't happen for me.

*trigger finger ... My fingers lock up in a curled position as if pulling a trigger

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I'm a proficient light attack weaver. However, I've all but stopped due to the repetitive, high speed rhythm game of it hurting my hands too much to do it anymore. I'm relatively young, too... that shouldn't be caused by mmo combat. The apms are too demanding.

MidniteOwl1913

OMG it is sooo boring! At this point, I could do it, but I really don't enjoy it at all. This a *game*. I play for entertainment it just seems to be counter to that purpose to force myself to do something that boring consistently.

katanagirl1

I finally managed to get my dps above 80k on a necro, but I’m old and have a repetitive injury in my right wrist and now I think I have arthritis issues. So all that work getting into a trials team might be in vain and in jeopardy while I wait to see a doctor.

Even the Oakensorc is hard on the index finger.

It would be a shame if I have to go back to stealing in order to make ends meet, lol.

fizzylu

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I don't find classes as Lackluster as I do confusing....I basically ignore weaving all together...I do hope at some point the devs will finally say uncle and give us something a bit more logical.

I personally used that word because, full offense to Zenimax, other MMOs simply do class design better from my experience and I tend to enjoy playing classes from other games way more. Again, I do think the combat style of a game does play a part in this and I fully believe Zenimax is held back because of ESO's (which is their own fault as they designed the game, but still). You can't truly get creative with the playstyle of classes when the combat revolves around spamming 1-3 buttons as your main source of damage/healing/tanking and micro managing so many of the same buffs. Playing ESO is like playing Hot Cross Buns on the recorder at a really fast tempo.... which many people here have already said, can indeed be a struggle to do for many reasons despite how simple that sounds.
I do think the actual concepts of some classes are a little confusing though. Warden especially is a big question mark in that sense, haha. I'm also not the biggest fan of what they did with the arcanist.... all the lime green and sci-fi style alien looking VFX don't seem to fit in the game very well.... but in terms of gameplay, I do think the arcanist is a small step in a better direction for the game. Sadly, I cannot see Zenimax going back to rework other classes to give them their own more unique gameplay.

jommerryrth

main main issue with it is that everyone is doing it. though admittedly some better than others. Even so i hate following a crowd. In most circumstances the majority is usually wrong. If i find my self with a majority opinion i'm sure to take a step back and wonder why that might be and reconsider it. At any rate since weaving is a thing i do two light attacks as often as i can remember to do them, which is most of the time. That way i'm still doing my own thing, at least somewhat.

FayJolyn

I just can't keep up with the rhythm after a while. Sometimes it's the game sometimes it's me. I start missing LA's or my skill won't fire or bar swap didn't go through. I also just don't enjoy it because I rather focus on the fight and not all my dots. I wish we could have more variation in playstyles that are viable, but every time something new comes up it gets nerfed into the ground. I like the HA build lots, I wish ZOS would do more with it, release more sets that work with HA, or design some new mythic that would introduce a new playstyle. Not asking for something OP but something decent.

Feljax

The problems that I see:

• Older gamers (and probably some younger ones too) have trouble as the constant frenetic movement takes a toll on your fingers and joints. I get that it's not "button mashing" but it's as fast as button mashing and that is problematic in the long term. Without the animation cancelling and weaving, the pace of button pressing would be a bit slower and would result in less fatigue, nerve damage, etc over time.
• In PvP, the animation cancelling removes visual queues and makes it extremely difficult to react to anything.
• It was originally unintended by the developers and rather than fix it back when it was discovered, they made the decision to embrace it, which is why we find ourselves in the divide we are currently in. That lone decision created a so-called "skill wall" that otherwise would not have been there and years later we wouldn't be having this conversation because we'd all be on the same footing.

Just my two cents.

AzuraFan

vsrs_au wrote: »

I just accept the fact that I'll never do some content in ESO, since I prefer solo play. The network limitations (and the fact that my reflexes get worse over time) tend to rule out some content. I'm OK with that, because ESO has heaps of content even for me.

Agreed (except I'm running out of content due to AwA).

(Gaming for over 40 years has left me with wrists and elbows that are susceptible to injury when overused. I've learned to avoid doing anything that requires repetitive movements over a long period, not because I can't do it, but because frankly I wish I hadn't done it for so many years and won't repeat the same stupid mistake now. Your joints and tendons are way more valuable than whatever loot or achievements you're getting. Take it from this older gamer and protect them.)

Warhawke_80

fizzylu wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I don't find classes as Lackluster as I do confusing....I basically ignore weaving all together...I do hope at some point the devs will finally say uncle and give us something a bit more logical.

I personally used that word because, full offense to Zenimax, other MMOs simply do class design better from my experience and I tend to enjoy playing classes from other games way more. Again, I do think the combat style of a game does play a part in this and I fully believe Zenimax is held back because of ESO's (which is their own fault as they designed the game, but still). You can't truly get creative with the playstyle of classes when the combat revolves around spamming 1-3 buttons as your main source of damage/healing/tanking and micro managing so many of the same buffs. Playing ESO is like playing Hot Cross Buns on the recorder at a really fast tempo.... which many people here have already said, can indeed be a struggle to do for many reasons despite how simple that sounds.
I do think the actual concepts of some classes are a little confusing though. Warden especially is a big question mark in that sense, haha. I'm also not the biggest fan of what they did with the arcanist.... all the lime green and sci-fi style alien looking VFX don't seem to fit in the game very well.... but in terms of gameplay, I do think the arcanist is a small step in a better direction for the game. Sadly, I cannot see Zenimax going back to rework other classes to give them their own more unique gameplay.

I hear you...honestly (and I know this is going to make some peoples head explode) having a class system in Elder Scrolls is counter intuitive and really limits players on what they can and can't do...I think ZoS started down a bad road when they said "we must adhere to the almighty trinity"

preevious

Theorically, would a built-in macro on a multibutton mouse that fire a right-click and then a skill 200ms later would be a violation of ToS?

That would help our disabled brethen, I think.
They'd weave without having to.