EXP rewards for PVP need increasing

bantad87

This is inaccurate

you cannot advance the PvP lines without PvPing... You can however advance the "PvE" lines in cyrodil.

You cannot use crafting to advance "adventure" lines only open up new crafting line OPTIONS. PvP, Crafting etc are all aspects of the greater game mechanics that are NOT STAND ALONE concepts, but synergistic and symbiotic to the entire experience of ES.

Yeah, and what I'm saying is that you're wrong. Cyrodiil is almost exclusively a standalone experience, otherwise they would have allowed PvP across all the Tamrielic zones, and not simply in a single area. Confining PvP to a single zone was a conscious design decision that seperated PvP and PvE activities.

Second, again, all of the activities you stated, minus crafting, give enough xp gain to become viable paths to level

By your logic, we should be forced to do quests, craft, dungeon delve, and PvP in order to reach L50; but that's not the case. You can grind mobs for levels without questing, crafting, or dungeoning for levels; in fact, the first L50 did nothing but grind mobs for 48 hours. No questing, no crafting, no dungeons. That's not experiencing the totality of the game; that's playing a single aspect to 50.

The case I am making, and have advocated in every MMO I have ever played, is that PvE activities are the only activities that net exp gains; yet, you are not required to do all aspects of PvE, or crossover into the PvP realm to reach maximum level. PvP should be no different in this regard, I should be able to PvP to max level, craft to max level, explore and grind to max level, quest to max level, or run instances to max level; no player should be forced to do things he doesn't like to reach the endgame. Once at endgame can be a different story.

After all, we all paid an initial fee for this game, and pay monthly for our enjoyment. Keyword is enjoyment; I may not enjoy the PvE , but I do enjoy the PvP; or vice versa, the point is that whatever I want to do, even if its just crafting all day, it should still be a viable path to at least reach level 50. Once there, to remain competitive, we can talk a different story.

Honestly, if the game required you to quest for 10 hours per level, but you could gain a level every 30 minutes through PvP, your little PvE queen heart would be crying bloody murder. Why is it any different here?

Lastly, if PvP is an aspect of the game that is required just like the others, it makes sense that PvP should give the same xp as the other aspects, and should be just as mandatory to be competitive for raiding, but its not. Are you seeing the hypocrisy of your position yet?

LadyChaos

you cannot gain crafting points without adventuring/questing/kills you cannot gain any points PvP or otherwise without adventuring/questing/kills.

PvP is not a ton different than Crafting. It is a specialized zone, 2 specialized lines (crafting has more).

these are the 4 ways you can advance your character in ability points points

1. Level yields 1 point + 1 Stat point
2. Special Quests yield 1 point
3. Special Mob Kills
4. 3 Sky shards yield 1 point

These are the only ways to gain a skill/stat point.
To gain any individual tree line level is based on each tree...

Crafting

• Deconstruct
• creation
• improvement
• etc

Campeign

• Veteran Rank
• Player Kills

Guilds

• Lore books, dungeons or Undead kills
• Quests

They all Benefit adventuring, There's no bait and switch. You do not have to craft. Do not have to dungeon crawl and raise undaunted, Kill undead and raise Warrior or adventure to find lore for Mages, do not have to PvP and raise assault or support etc. But to get points to spend you must do the 4 listed first.

It is your choice to spend, how you chose to earn them, quest or kills etc... But because you chose not to quest/adventure/PvP/Craft/Dungeon/Raid is not Game flaw. You can do any or all, but the guy who does more has the advantage over the guy who only does ANY ONE of them.

Safgril

I have to say.. they need to up the xp.. this is sad...

I enjoy games that allow xp while you pvp. EVEN games like WOW and Warhammer did it. WOW's pve didnt hurt because of it. Warhammer was basically all pvp with some pve. Now Dark age of camelot even moved away from teh aspect of needing to pve to level.. they did it for their pvp. It didnt hurt their pve any.

its all a choice.

now, they also need to untie crafting to leveling up by pve. i made a full crafter but the problem is he struggles to PVE because he has no lines in combat. so it is very hard. I think that is another thing. i should also levle by crafting. Now should i be able to take my xp from crafting and change them to combat, no i shouldnt. But it should give me levels as long as I am a crafter. I am all for keeping that seperate but I should have that CHOICE.

you know this is what killed Lord of teh Rings by the way. They solely cared about PVE.. and left pvp out in the cold. ALL of the pvpers left...THis will soon be the demise of this game if they dont make it to where the pvpers can enjoy what they like.... PVP

DLaren

People actually bought an Elder Scrolls game and don't want to do Elder Scrolls quests...unbelievable.

The way I see it, Zenimax is trying to remain true to the roots of the Elder Scrolls franchise; where you've always advanced your character as you advanced through the story/quests/dungeons.

If there are gamers who -only- want to advance their character by killing other players, I can think of a thousand games that would encourage you to do that...and not one of them would be an Elder Scrolls game.

Ticare

DLaren wrote: »

People actually bought an Elder Scrolls game and don't want to do Elder Scrolls quests...unbelievable.

Everyone enjoys different things. Just because you bought this game for Elder Scrolls lore doesn't mean everyone did. Some bought it just for the awesome PVP the game has and aren't interested in anything else. These people paid the same amount of money for the game that you did.

Let's put it this way: who's enjoyment of the game will actually diminish if PVP is made a viable leveling path. I know massive amounts of people who would greatly enjoy this feature. Some of them even on the verge of quitting the game because they have no interest in grinding the levels in PVE. Who are the people that wouldn't want to play this game if PVP was a viable leveling path? And what's the reason?

babanovac

DLaren wrote: »

People actually bought an Elder Scrolls game and don't want to do Elder Scrolls quests...unbelievable.

The way I see it, Zenimax is trying to remain true to the roots of the Elder Scrolls franchise; where you've always advanced your character as you advanced through the story/quests/dungeons.

If there are gamers who -only- want to advance their character by killing other players, I can think of a thousand games that would encourage you to do that...and not one of them would be an Elder Scrolls game.

Well believe it. Some people bought the game not because of the Elder Scrolls name, but because of the 3 way massive PvP. Some people, myself included, bought the game ONLY for this aspect.

And you are of course exaggerating with the thousand games that encourage you to do massive PvP. There's only a handful of them, and they all fail one way or the other, or they are shooters, not MMOs.

sminkiottone

Yesterday I playied like 5 hours in pvp and haven't made a single level (I'm lvl 11 right now), a little more xp would be apretiated .

LadyChaos

sminkiottone wrote: »

Yesterday I playied like 5 hours in pvp and haven't made a single level (I'm lvl 11 right now), a little more xp would be apretiated .

Thing is the ones we are trying to explain this to are not asking for a little xp or more quests, or shards, specialty mobs, they are asking to rewrite the game so it is 2 different games, even though there are crofters who are just as hardcore non-adventures as much as there are PvPers that are non-adventurers... and raiders, etc.

For the most part it isn't that the xp in PvP should be tweaked, it's that a specific type of player (the same type who is also a crafter and doesn't want to leave the city), wants to see the entire rest of the game changed and rebalanced so they can have it EXACTLY their way at the cost of the entire game balance.

Game-wide Economy, Zone population, Campaign queue times, Gold Farmers etc, all tied into making 1 zone without travel or repair costs level AT THE SAME PACE for level 10-50, by KILLS ALONE. - it DOES effect the rest of the game, not just PvP.

babanovac

LadyChaos wrote: »

sminkiottone wrote: »

Yesterday I playied like 5 hours in pvp and haven't made a single level (I'm lvl 11 right now), a little more xp would be apretiated .

Thing is the ones we are trying to explain this to are not asking for a little xp or more quests, or shards, specialty mobs, they are asking to rewrite the game so it is 2 different games, even though there are crofters who are just as hardcore non-adventures as much as there are PvPers that are non-adventurers... and raiders, etc.

For the most part it isn't that the xp in PvP should be tweaked, it's that a specific type of player (the same type who is also a crafter and doesn't want to leave the city), wants to see the entire rest of the game changed and rebalanced so they can have it EXACTLY their way at the cost of the entire game balance.

Game-wide Economy, Zone population, Campaign queue times, Gold Farmers etc, all tied into making 1 zone without travel or repair costs level AT THE SAME PACE for level 10-50, by KILLS ALONE. - it DOES effect the rest of the game, not just PvP.

I'm not sure there is any point in answering since it's pretty obvious what you are ignoring all arguments, but i'll try anyway.

We are not asking for a rewrite of the game. We are asking that game be fixed so that it works as it was advertised. Leveling through PvP was advertised by ZOS and the game was designed to accommodate PvP players too. They simply broke it by not allowing us to xp in Cyrodiil.

And you are blatantly wrong about the fact that PvP influences PvE in any way.

A PvE player can level to VR10 and get the best gear in game by never setting foot in Cyrodiil. And after getting to VR10 he can enter PvP and simply destroy all the people who had the brilliant idea of sticking to Cyrodiil and got stuck at level 20. PvE CAN influence PvP. The other way around is simply NOT TRUE.

There is absolutely no advantage that a PvP player could have over a PvE one. You keep mentioning gear repair and travel costs as your ONLY arguments. Repair and travel cost is marginal any way you look at it. But you conveniently forget the resurrection costs, which in PvP can add up to a lot, considering that you die a lot more than you do in PvE.

So no, we don't want a rewrite of the game. We only want to play the game that was sold to us.

killedbyping

What is the meaning of this discussion ? Topic starter obviously doing something WRONG.
99% of players (probably all 100% of them) who reached lvl 50 or even some veteran ranks during early access grinded those levels on PVP.

babanovac

killedbyping wrote: »

What is the meaning of this discussion ? Topic starter obviously doing something WRONG.
99% of players (probably all 100% of them) who reached lvl 50 or even some veteran ranks during early access grinded those levels on PVP.

This is completely false. Please use google and search on how people reached 50. No one did it through PvP. They all did it through PvE grinding.

LadyChaos

@ babanovacbabanovac

it effects PvE via economy and zone population... said in replies this thread already in detail. It is easier to level 10-50 in a single zone without monetary death penalty, travel costs or any need to group than it is in overland zones if they are "Equal" xp gain (per kill). No need to quest, or do anything the game was designed to do. SO people abandon the quest dungeons to speed level and there is in imbalance of players to group up buy crafted wares, do anchors etc not to mention the economy of that imbalance.. which has been explained and even accepted earlier in this thread as a sincere concern. If 1 zone of 50 is the must easier to xp in then the other zones empty. Cyrrodil is not empty, the balance is there on the full servers.

The discussion isn't that Cyrodyl should not have more xp opportunities it's that it should not be 1 player kill = 1 mob kill. not Equal. You would do one battle and gain 3 levels... IDK how impossible that seems to be to show the imbalance.

bantad87

The discussion isn't that Cyrodyl should not have more xp opportunities it's that it should not be 1 player kill = 1 mob kill. not Equal. You would do one battle and gain 3 levels... IDK how impossible that seems to be to show the imbalance.

Uh, no. The issue is that Cyrodiil gives absolutely no experience whatsoever anymore really; and players want this to be a viable leveling alternative. Whatever Zenimax has to do to make it fair is fine; if they want to introduce gear repair costs or whatever in PvP, then fine, whatever. What I want is to be rewarded for playing the game, just like everyone else does.

Besides, you're completely wrong again - if 1 player kill equaled 1 NPC kill, you'd still level much faster in PvE because I can kill 3 npcs in 3 seconds, but I can't kill 3 players in 3 seconds (definitely not solo). If you're talking about alliance pvp, obviously XP should only be earned on opponents you actually dealt a certain threshold of damage too.

No one here is asking to make PvP the best way to level, we're only asking to make it viable; preferably before everyone hits L50 and makes it a moot point anyway. As in, hotfix this *** right now Zenimax.

LadyChaos

@bantad87

you get that in 1 PvP battle you get credit for every player you "tag" let alone every kill your group tags... and they all bunch up in nice little places like keeps and resources ect, you don't even have to go hunting for them. So no, 1 mob kill should not = 1 player kill. In PvE it is the same it's just you have to move around from zone to zone to get higher and higher level mobs to xp.. in cyrrodil you don't have to go anywhere else, ever.

The viable vrs best is exactly the dispute. People either asking for an exploited quest to power level or to be able to level as fast as the same guy who goes to multiple zones, dungeons, anchors, quests etc... most have gotten over the exploit drama, but viable does not mean the same Kill xp ratio.

Even in PvE Quests are the top way to xp. Cyrrodil doesn't have many quests, partly because people like to exploit PvP to level fast, but people arnt offering good quest ideas that dont lend towards exploitation, speed leveling, or pulling people from the actual goal of controlling the map and working together.

You put more quests in, players don't help siege because they are questing to level. Many will say go quest in PvE and don't take a spot in cyrrodil from a PvPer.If so many hadn't exploited then defended the exploitation of the 20 kill quest a lot of us might have more faith in the simple intentions, but it's a fact that people will exploit any way to level faster in PvP if they can find a gap in it, because there is no risk there. Only thing you lose is your pride and time and that's cheaper than doing it in overland Zones.

It's not just about keeping PvE from being effected it effects PvP just as much to give an imbalance to the leveling system ie all levels 1 zone, in a no monetary risk zone. It has to be slower, how much slower should be the discussion IMO.

bantad87

LadyChaos wrote: »

@bantad87

you get that in 1 PvP battle you get credit for every player you "tag" let alone every kill your group tags... and they all bunch up in nice little places like keeps and resources ect, you don't even have to go hunting for them. So no, 1 mob kill should not = 1 player kill. In PvE it is the same it's just you have to move around from zone to zone to get higher and higher level mobs to xp.. in cyrrodil you don't have to go anywhere else, ever.

The viable vrs best is exactly the dispute. People either asking for an exploited quest to power level or to be able to level as fast as the same guy who goes to multiple zones, dungeons, anchors, quests etc... most have gotten over the exploit drama, but viable does not mean the same Kill xp ratio.

Even in PvE Quests are the top way to xp. Cyrrodil doesn't have many quests, partly because people like to exploit PvP to level fast, but people arnt offering good quest ideas that dont lend towards exploitation, speed leveling, or pulling people from the actual goal of controlling the map and working together.

You put more quests in, players don't help siege because they are questing to level. Many will say go quest in PvE and don't take a spot in cyrrodil from a PvPer.If so many hadn't exploited then defended the exploitation of the 20 kill quest a lot of us might have more faith in the simple intentions, but it's a fact that people will exploit any way to level faster in PvP if they can find a gap in it, because there is no risk there. Only thing you lose is your pride and time and that's cheaper than doing it in overland Zones.

It's not just about keeping PvE from being effected it effects PvP just as much to give an imbalance to the leveling system ie all levels 1 zone, in a no monetary risk zone. It has to be slower, how much slower should be the discussion IMO.

I'm not sure you're understanding my position at all. First, I said that every aspect of the game should be a viable option to level to 50. Why do I say that; because I hold the fundamental belief that whatever activity a player does, the company should reward them for that activity. Only by doing that will a company maintain the largest possible player base.

I'm not trying to be ridiculous and say that ANYTHING should reward XP, but seriously, if something as little as walking around the map (exploring) rewards good xp, then why is it so far-fetched that PvP should award good exp? Not only are you exploring, but you're participating in faction-based activities.

I'm also not advocating for a pvp quest or anything related; my fundamental belief is that killing players should be rewarded in itself. As in, you get loot, xp, and money drops from players - then you dont need seperate PvP gear. You can just get it from player based drops, craft it, or buy it. Of course, ESO is not set up this way currently, but it's certainly not impossible to change to a system like this.

Lastly, I'm sorry, but you're sadly misinformed if you think questing is the fastest way to level right now. As I've mentioned previously, nearly all of the first 50's did nothing but grind packs of mobs all the way to 50. One of the first 50's wrote a forum post here: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/level-50-my-thoughts/ in it, he clearly outlines that AOE grinding is faster than questing. Tell me, if questing and playing the game is the end-all-be-all of leveling, why has nearly every 50 to this point gotten there by grinding?

It's sad and pathetic that killing a single PvE mob grants a player more EXP than assaulting and taking a fortress, including all the player kills. So I'm going to stop addressing you Lady, because I don't care about your opinion.

Zenimax, you need to adjust PvP experience; not just on the questing level, but also on the actual PvP portion. Such a massively popular activity, like PvP, should absolutely be a viable path to 50 - and not take an inordinate amount of time to reach 50 either. You are a business, if you don't implement PvP based leveling, you will lose customers. Not me, but you will lose other customers. So, to me, it makes perfect sense from a gameplay and monetary standpoint to implement viable PvP leveling again in some form or another.