Arms of Relequen is the new Savage WW and needs to be nerfed

IZZEFlameLash

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

StaticWave

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

IZZEFlameLash

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

Yeah, it is getting more apparent as people have had time to get used to this set up. People really downplay the effectiveness of this setup.

Ranged proc's only viable counter is to reflect their attacks if there's no LoS. And we know only reflects are Spell Wall ult or Defensive Posture spam. 1 isn't spammable even in ultgen setup. The other is playing a losing game of attrition all the while unable to approach them because they can always step as many steps back when you approach.

Quethrosar

wait in the shots i am seeing more than 1 light attack per second, how is that possible ?
where's the GCD of 1 second?

StaticWave

Quethrosar wrote: »

wait in the shots i am seeing more than 1 light attack per second, how is that possible ?
where's the GCD of 1 second?

Light attacks have a separate cooldown, same for bash

Rhaegar75

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

katorga

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

Just for giggles, all three-day weekend in Cyrodiil, not one relequen on my death recaps. Zero.

If it were "way too oppressive" I'd expect to actually see it. Most people using inefficient single target builds seem to focus on Sheer Venom and/or Way of Fire or Master's DW/Vateshran. To be honest, I saw very little of anything other than group-optimized AOE builds.

DrNukenstein

katorga wrote: »

Sheer Venom

Now that's a crazy proc. I can't believe it really refreshes of the poison injection dot so you can execute and dot while you dot and execute.

Love when some rat-blade tags me with it and makes me itchy for 20 seconds then takes the time to let me know how bad I am because I died with it on me at some point. Those types love structured entropy too. At least Relequen won't refresh off of itself.

merpins

Lol nice meme. Rele, a good PVP set, hilarious

SkaraMinoc

Quethrosar wrote: »

wait in the shots i am seeing more than 1 light attack per second, how is that possible ?
where's the GCD of 1 second?

You can find this information in the UESP coefficient spreadsheet.

Light attack cooldown is 0.7 seconds but it's more like 0.75 to 0.8 depending on latency and server lag.

katorga

DrNukenstein wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Sheer Venom

Now that's a crazy proc. I can't believe it really refreshes of the poison injection dot so you can execute and dot while you dot and execute.

Love when some rat-blade tags me with it and makes me itchy for 20 seconds then takes the time to let me know how bad I am because I died with it on me at some point. Those types love structured entropy too. At least Relequen won't refresh off of itself.

I swapped some stuff around and played with sheer venom yesterday, pretty good for my scavenger build, when solo kill stealing the weak during big fights. venom + draugrkin or way of fire, all swift, double dot poisons, LA weave into merciless or bound armaments. It works with Oakensoul 1bar which is useful when scavenging in ball group lag.

Rhaegar75

katorga wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

Just for giggles, all three-day weekend in Cyrodiil, not one relequen on my death recaps. Zero.

If it were "way too oppressive" I'd expect to actually see it. Most people using inefficient single target builds seem to focus on Sheer Venom and/or Way of Fire or Master's DW/Vateshran. To be honest, I saw very little of anything other than group-optimized AOE builds.

You don’t see rele as often simply because your average ‘cheesy player’ sticks to the more common YouTube meta sets: vatesh, master DW etc

These sets are too strong and rele is in the same category….just not as cheesy

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

Honestly I can think of multiple scenarios where someone can reach you before you can destroy them.

Keep in mind yes you can melt players that don't know how to create counter offensive pressure, aren't tanky, etc but this is really a 50/50 at best.

Tanky dk with a good heal
Arcanist with fat shields
Templar purge
Dot sorc that know how to use streak stun and movement
Warden with auto purge and large heals
Nightblade, self explanatory


I've been playing PVP in all zones since this thread came out and have seen several of the usual trends but this set isn't one of them all and I've been up against sweats, zergs, etc

I've had this set applied to me about 2 or three times and even tried the set out myself.

In neither of those instances did it really wow me.


Can you get kills with this set, yes. Are you likely working harder with same or less damage return, yes


I honestly wish people would put this on over some of the cheese I regularly face.

Udrath

works really well with bowsorc, also extremely hard to cleanse off since you can only remove stacks of it and not the whole stack unless you hit a ritual synergy which sucks to fight against. Bowsorcs are pretty strong without it though too, which is a good thing I think for people wanting different playstyles. Never played one but they look fun, and are tough to fight as melee. My only concern with pvp are snow treader ball groups and undeath off topic. I really don’t think vate/dw/releq is all that because it’s still carried by undeath.

This set is pretty strong though and does account for about 20%-30% of the damage done.

IZZEFlameLash

merpins wrote: »

Lol nice meme. Rele, a good PVP set, hilarious

Not a meme. If you ever run around solo, you are more likely to run into a bowsorc and with high likelihood of them running Relequen on top of other strong proc set. Relequen alone can put you on the defensive the whole time and are super effective at draining resource game than any other ranged setup. You better pray that you have at least 10k shield or Spell Wall on defensive bar or that you have LoS to hide behind. If not, you just are gonna get dismantled. Or hope that your faction's group passes your way.

Bushido2513

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

Just for giggles, all three-day weekend in Cyrodiil, not one relequen on my death recaps. Zero.

If it were "way too oppressive" I'd expect to actually see it. Most people using inefficient single target builds seem to focus on Sheer Venom and/or Way of Fire or Master's DW/Vateshran. To be honest, I saw very little of anything other than group-optimized AOE builds.

You don’t see rele as often simply because your average ‘cheesy player’ sticks to the more common YouTube meta sets: vatesh, master DW etc

These sets are too strong and rele is in the same category….just not as cheesy

Or let's also take into account this. Would you rather keep up light attack stacks on all the opponents you face or hit two buttons?

I mean if you're a NB then 5 light attacks

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Lol nice meme. Rele, a good PVP set, hilarious

Not a meme. If you ever run around solo, you are more likely to run into a bowsorc and with high likelihood of them running Relequen on top of other strong proc set. Relequen alone can put you on the defensive the whole time and are super effective at draining resource game than any other ranged setup. You better pray that you have at least 10k shield or Spell Wall on defensive bar or that you have LoS to hide behind. If not, you just are gonna get dismantled. Or hope that your faction's group passes your way.

I run solo at basically all times and I've rarely run into this set and the times I did it wasn't much of a problem but my build is made to deal with outnumbered, burst, burst procs, etc.


So to be clearer I'd say yes if your build is focused into damage with low mitigation and you don't have a plan to deal with proc / burst ranged situations then yes someone using this set might kill you.

Also if you're dealing with a good player on the right class then yeah you might die but it's likely they'd kill you without it

Best ranged setup is hard to say. Yes you can use it on any class at range but you have to take into account ease of use, other class abilities, etc.


Bottom line, this isn't what's appearing on death recaps.

Go reviews several various pvp videos or streams and you're not going to find this thing dominating or even making much of an appearance.


It's been weeks since this thread started, if it's that good why is nobody really appearing to run it?

Vaqual

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

Just for giggles, all three-day weekend in Cyrodiil, not one relequen on my death recaps. Zero.

If it were "way too oppressive" I'd expect to actually see it. Most people using inefficient single target builds seem to focus on Sheer Venom and/or Way of Fire or Master's DW/Vateshran. To be honest, I saw very little of anything other than group-optimized AOE builds.

You don’t see rele as often simply because your average ‘cheesy player’ sticks to the more common YouTube meta sets: vatesh, master DW etc

These sets are too strong and rele is in the same category….just not as cheesy

Or let's also take into account this. Would you rather keep up light attack stacks on all the opponents you face or hit two buttons?

I mean if you're a NB then 5 light attacks

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Lol nice meme. Rele, a good PVP set, hilarious

Not a meme. If you ever run around solo, you are more likely to run into a bowsorc and with high likelihood of them running Relequen on top of other strong proc set. Relequen alone can put you on the defensive the whole time and are super effective at draining resource game than any other ranged setup. You better pray that you have at least 10k shield or Spell Wall on defensive bar or that you have LoS to hide behind. If not, you just are gonna get dismantled. Or hope that your faction's group passes your way.

I run solo at basically all times and I've rarely run into this set and the times I did it wasn't much of a problem but my build is made to deal with outnumbered, burst, burst procs, etc.


So to be clearer I'd say yes if your build is focused into damage with low mitigation and you don't have a plan to deal with proc / burst ranged situations then yes someone using this set might kill you.

Also if you're dealing with a good player on the right class then yeah you might die but it's likely they'd kill you without it

Best ranged setup is hard to say. Yes you can use it on any class at range but you have to take into account ease of use, other class abilities, etc.


Bottom line, this isn't what's appearing on death recaps.

Go reviews several various pvp videos or streams and you're not going to find this thing dominating or even making much of an appearance.


It's been weeks since this thread started, if it's that good why is nobody really appearing to run it?

There is, at times, a correlation between ease of use and potency, but they are not the same.
This is inconvenient enough to use for the lazy masses, but still a bit too strong on ranged pressure setups, because it is much easier to maintain high the tick- and double tick- uptime.
It is also not busted for ganking or bombing, both of which are big pull-factors when it comes to a sets popularity, but that doesn't change anything about its potential in duels.

katorga

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

Just for giggles, all three-day weekend in Cyrodiil, not one relequen on my death recaps. Zero.

If it were "way too oppressive" I'd expect to actually see it. Most people using inefficient single target builds seem to focus on Sheer Venom and/or Way of Fire or Master's DW/Vateshran. To be honest, I saw very little of anything other than group-optimized AOE builds.

You don’t see rele as often simply because your average ‘cheesy player’ sticks to the more common YouTube meta sets: vatesh, master DW etc

These sets are too strong and rele is in the same category….just not as cheesy

No one uses relequen because it takes too long to ramp up on a target and stacks are tied to a target. Nerf it, don't nerf it...it is still a poor pvp set.

Bushido2513

Vaqual wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Fought a Relequen enjoyer at IC on my magsorc. Was having super difficult time recovering myself. If it wasn't for the LoS, the fight would've been even tougher. I won that one but, it is a very strong set. No wonder people flock to it. All that person has to do is to light attack to build stack to demolish any shield you have and start chipping away at your health. Classes with burst heals will definitely have better time fending that off but longer the fight goes, more in favor Relequen user is as their resource spending is far less than you.

Just so this doesn't get taken without perspective there's a few things to note.

I'm pretty sure you would have had the same or worse time with someone using Vate/masters dw/ fire or appetite set.

They can create wayyyy more pressure with two skills vs having to keep up light attacks on you.

Not saying someone couldn't keep this up on you at all times but that person is usually either only worried about the light attacks and is probably an easy kill or so skilled with light attack weaving that they'd just as easily pressure you with other sets.

Also flock to it is a stretch. I do occasionally see it but I get hit a lot more by rending, Vate, maw, marselok, fire, and funny enough hrothgar which all give you a lot easier damage for the work required.

Now the person you faced could have also been using fire, draugirkin, etc to enhance their overall damage but yeah this set just doesn't rank up there with the sets I've already mentioned.

I hadn't tested this until after my previous post but I took pretty much my same build and just took off rele and put on vate and got more kills and instant pressure with a lot less work or thought.


Again I'll be clear as say that performance doesn't match the tooltip and that could be corrected but in terms of pvp threat scale this is b or c tier.

I actually find myself able to survive better against melee proc set up. Relequen build enjoyers dictate when to close in and when not to while you are constantly on the defensives. Usually, they tend to stay far because without LoS, they know you are limited to expending resources constantly by blocking and casting heals/shields depending on classes you are on. Magsorc gets to cry because heals aren't too great to heal you back up to full health by the time Relequen enjoyer eats up all your shield.

Melee proc set up people have no real choice but to close in and take the risk of taking potentially huge burst damage back to them or call their friends running the same setup so that you have 2+ of the same DoTs from different sources ticking on you.

A good relequen user will destroy a melee proc user, and that’s a fact. When I slotted Relequen on my bowsorc I could melt melee players way before they can reach me.

It’s the same argument when people could stack Oblivion’s Foe with Sheer Venom from range and kill melee players before they could gap close. When all else equals, a ranged player with procs will dominate a melee player with procs.

sadly that's a correct evaluation: relenquen is way too oppressive

Just for giggles, all three-day weekend in Cyrodiil, not one relequen on my death recaps. Zero.

If it were "way too oppressive" I'd expect to actually see it. Most people using inefficient single target builds seem to focus on Sheer Venom and/or Way of Fire or Master's DW/Vateshran. To be honest, I saw very little of anything other than group-optimized AOE builds.

You don’t see rele as often simply because your average ‘cheesy player’ sticks to the more common YouTube meta sets: vatesh, master DW etc

These sets are too strong and rele is in the same category….just not as cheesy

Or let's also take into account this. Would you rather keep up light attack stacks on all the opponents you face or hit two buttons?

I mean if you're a NB then 5 light attacks

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Lol nice meme. Rele, a good PVP set, hilarious

Not a meme. If you ever run around solo, you are more likely to run into a bowsorc and with high likelihood of them running Relequen on top of other strong proc set. Relequen alone can put you on the defensive the whole time and are super effective at draining resource game than any other ranged setup. You better pray that you have at least 10k shield or Spell Wall on defensive bar or that you have LoS to hide behind. If not, you just are gonna get dismantled. Or hope that your faction's group passes your way.

I run solo at basically all times and I've rarely run into this set and the times I did it wasn't much of a problem but my build is made to deal with outnumbered, burst, burst procs, etc.


So to be clearer I'd say yes if your build is focused into damage with low mitigation and you don't have a plan to deal with proc / burst ranged situations then yes someone using this set might kill you.

Also if you're dealing with a good player on the right class then yeah you might die but it's likely they'd kill you without it

Best ranged setup is hard to say. Yes you can use it on any class at range but you have to take into account ease of use, other class abilities, etc.


Bottom line, this isn't what's appearing on death recaps.

Go reviews several various pvp videos or streams and you're not going to find this thing dominating or even making much of an appearance.


It's been weeks since this thread started, if it's that good why is nobody really appearing to run it?

There is, at times, a correlation between ease of use and potency, but they are not the same.
This is inconvenient enough to use for the lazy masses, but still a bit too strong on ranged pressure setups, because it is much easier to maintain high the tick- and double tick- uptime.
It is also not busted for ganking or bombing, both of which are big pull-factors when it comes to a sets popularity, but that doesn't change anything about its potential in duels.

Duels are mostly irrelevant. This wouldn't stand up to the cheesier of dueling builds by a long shot. There are so many thing that can be gotten away with in duels that you really just can't ever use them in terms of balancing talk.

You have to look at the current bar for strong sets. Generally speaking current strong sets do a lot for you when you do things you would normally do.

Rally
Wretched
Balm
Vate/Masters
Draugirkin
Fire
Hrothgar
Scavenging
Etc


These sets only require that you do what you were going to pretty much do anyway without much thought.

Rele requires more active management without a crazy amount of return.


I've agreed that the tooltip should match how it performs but this isn't even b tier compared to the current meta sets.

JanTanhide

Well I for one am sick of the "Nerf this nerf that threads".

Bushido2513

JanTanhide wrote: »

Well I for one am sick of the "Nerf this nerf that threads".

To be fair I'm sure others are just as tired of an imbalanced pvp experience. The current meta can have you feeling anywhere from bored to downright annoyed and that's no fun either..

Of course it's not fun to see the something killed me please remove it but at the same time there are legitimate complaints that do indeed need to be nerfed. But even saying nerfed sounds bad when saying balanced would be just the same.

StaticWave

JanTanhide wrote: »

Well I for one am sick of the "Nerf this nerf that threads".

Lol, I'm sick of dealing with the same broken stuff every single time I PvP. [snip]

[edited for minor baiting]

Overamera

relequen deserves a fat nerf

Brakkish

I'm not for or against it's use; I am for adjusting the tooltip to read more accurately.

One of the reason's I haven't bothered with the set is that it says "against monsters". Since all I do is PVP it wasn't of interest, now to find out that it DOES work against players.

Odd, as most either clearly say "Enemies" or "Players" -
"Monsters" is specific, and would expect that it only works against "Monsters"

katorga

Overamera wrote: »

relequen deserves a fat nerf

SInce the thread started I've not seen relequen on my death recaps. Zero. So that tells me the set probably needs to be buffed to get players to use it. I did see one person in zone chat selling relequen farms for 15m, lol.

StaticWave

katorga wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

relequen deserves a fat nerf

SInce the thread started I've not seen relequen on my death recaps. Zero. So that tells me the set probably needs to be buffed to get players to use it. I did see one person in zone chat selling relequen farms for 15m, lol.

Other people have

Zabagad

Brakkish wrote: »

One of the reason's I haven't bothered with the set is that it says "against monsters". Since all I do is PVP it wasn't of interest, now to find out that it DOES work against players.

Odd, as most either clearly say "Enemies" or "Players" -
"Monsters" is specific, and would expect that it only works against "Monsters"

This is only said for "Minor Slayer" at 3 items. For all the rest there is no such clause...

Brakkish

Zabagad wrote: »

Brakkish wrote: »

One of the reason's I haven't bothered with the set is that it says "against monsters". Since all I do is PVP it wasn't of interest, now to find out that it DOES work against players.

Odd, as most either clearly say "Enemies" or "Players" -
"Monsters" is specific, and would expect that it only works against "Monsters"

This is only said for "Minor Slayer" at 3 items. For all the rest there is no such clause...

Are you saying then, that players wearing this set do not gain a 5% increase vs other players?

Theignson

So my reaction initially was, you have to get stacks for Relequen to be great, and its hard to do in PvP.

Until yesterday in GH, when I ran into TWO Identically built Sorcs ganking and....you guessed it... both in Relequens.

They had identical setup and spells and they procced me to oblivion.

Here is what these bowsorcs were using: Relequens, NMG, and Jeralls with master bow back bar . This at least is what I deduced. Constantly I had minor.major breech on me, plus XX Malady, plus double stacks of Relequens..

I am not sure whether the stacks from both of them contributed to the ten stack limit but either way it was was a big mismatched 2v1.

Now soon you'll see wolf packs all in relequens... you heard it here first

StaticWave

Theignson wrote: »

So my reaction initially was, you have to get stacks for Relequen to be great, and its hard to do in PvP.

Until yesterday in GH, when I ran into TWO Identically built Sorcs ganking and....you guessed it... both in Relequens.

They had identical setup and spells and they procced me to oblivion.

Here is what these bowsorcs were using: Relequens, NMG, and Jeralls with master bow back bar . This at least is what I deduced. Constantly I had minor.major breech on me, plus XX Malady, plus double stacks of Relequens..

I am not sure whether the stacks from both of them contributed to the ten stack limit but either way it was was a big mismatched 2v1.

Now soon you'll see wolf packs all in relequens... you heard it here first

I already warned about this months ago but the forums always does what it does best