RIP Necromancers

TechMaybeHic

Id like it if the fixed blast bones tracking and make it faster.

Make Scythe a little more damaging to be a spammable and get rid of the healing/hemorrhage effects if needed, and have it scale slightly as an execute, something like a consl steel tornado, but better as it's a class ability and conal

Then there are named buffs it should get

propertyOfUndefined

So many indirect nerfs to the class over the years:

Major protection gets nerfed (deaden pain)
Major protection becomes widely available (flare)
Major defile gets nerfed (blighted blastbones)
Major vulnerability gets nerfed (colossus)
Major vulnerability becomes widely available (new sets)
Harmony gets nerfed (graveyard)
New class is given passive minor evasion

Now we have an aoe damage nerf in the form of the destruction staff passive. I actually like the change to lightning staves, but it hurts the necromancer class kit, which relies heavily on aoe. The class kit used to be unique and desirable. Nowadays it feels like a kit designed for a different game -- the ESO of yesteryear...

Urzigurumash

Others have said i, I've said it:

Brutality on Archer
Savagery on Siphon

Now Necro's got lots more Crit Chance at Execute and uptime on the Penetration passive. A big buff mechanically and thematically in PvP with little elevation of DPS in PvE (I think anyhow, I don't know much about PvE).

Turtle_Bot

It's probably not ideal, but maybe could look into a DoT/proc build for cro and lean into the DoT buff from flame/lightning staff and cros DoT passive. Bonus is cro has the DoT damage reduction passive meaning it takes much less damage from this same build than other classes will take giving it an advantage in a fight against this same build (which is looking very popular next patch from early testing).

Way of Fire (or dragons appetite or draugrkin), Asylum inferno front, vate ice staff back, monster set, mythic and 2 pc whatever (trainee?).

It's how magsorc is being forced to play next patch (DoT/proc pressure build) since ZOS also doesn't want magsorcs to use class abilities thanks to the removal of the 10% single target buff from flame staff which is a flat nerf to frags, curse, bound armaments and overload and the nerf to crushing shock is mostly mitigated by the increased damage on initial DoT ticks (so 3/4 magsorc damage abilities nerfed by this change and only 1, the non-class one, breaks even lol...).

Cro could probably do something similar with mist form for a teleport, the +10% DoT damage passive, blast bones for the delayed burst, colossus now being cheaper for a ranged AoE ultimate.

front bar:
asylum inferno
blast bones, crushing shock, camo hunter/inner light/flex, spirit guardian, stun (FG fear or flame clench?), ultimate: colossus

back bar:
vate ice
ele sus, vigor, resistent flesh, mist form (or race against time if you don't like mist form/vampire), armor buff, camo hunter/inner light/flex, ultimate: barrier/undo/resurrect

Could try and fit stam scythe on front bar flex spot (or shift guardian to back bar) for an additional heal + DoT + status (hemorrhage) and run double dot poisons which would give you 7-8 total DoTs/status (burning, chill, concussed, bleed, hemorrhage, 2 instances of the poisons and potential poison status effect) that gets buffed by the new flame staff passive. If running stam scythe then could swap way of fire for dragons appetite for additional damage to bleeding enemies as well as a nice heal proc from it every once in a while.

Still would be nice if they could give major sorcery/brutality to cro on a easily slottable class skill, but this could be an option in the meantime since ZOS is forcing the lower classes into running the arena weapon DoT proc pressure builds to have a chance to compete against the top classes. Especially if you run with a friend on a DK that can provide that buff to both of you.

Urzigurumash

Those sorts of builds work yes but then why are you playing a Necro? If you're playing that, you're playing to maximize your chances at success, so you absolutely might as well be DK or Warden.

Like StamDK or MagDen for many years, if you play Necro right now, you do it for style and challenge, not for maximizing your chances at success.

Depends how you look at things which is the more honorable way to PvP: play with some challenge in favor of the aesthetic and thematic, or play for the utmost advantage for your alliance / team.

katorga

That might actually work. Necro could use both dragons/draugrkin since Scythe applies bleed effect. Use BRP dw and quick cloak on back bar, two more possible status effects. Throw on Baron Zaudrus and you would be a ulti-gen monster with deaden pain and all the status effects you are applying.

Still, it will be massively better on a DK or warden.

Toxic_Hemlock

I personally see no logic in a game that offers constant companions for my sorc, but not for my necro...

I always though necros were all about raising the dead as an army, the whole class needs to go back the drawing board IMO.

NordSwordnBoard

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I personally see no logic in a game that offers constant companions for my sorc, but not for my necro...

I always though necros were all about raising the dead as an army, the whole class needs to go back the drawing board IMO.

Given the current real estate market, most Necros are forced to lease instead of buy. The class lacks generational wealth. Necro works two jobs to try to get ahead, only to see rich uncle Nightblade hit the lottery for the 4th time while auntie DK settles in to her reserved seat at the noveau riche club. Sad music plays as Necro walks off into the rain alone. He conjures a dead companion, only to be abandoned in less than a minute. He begins to dig his own grave...

BasP

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Others have said i, I've said it:

Brutality on Archer
Savagery on Siphon

Now Necro's got lots more Crit Chance at Execute and uptime on the Penetration passive. A big buff mechanically and thematically in PvP with little elevation of DPS in PvE (I think anyhow, I don't know much about PvE).

Yup, those buffs would definitely be nice to have. I'm guessing it wouldn't change all that much for end-game PVE'ers, but I'd like it from my more casual POV. I haven't actually played with my Stamcro or Magcro in a long while, but for some reason I found myself wanting to play with the class again leading up to this PTS. (I probably subconsciously hoped for some nice QOL changes to the class which incorporated the new "while slotted on either bar" mechanic and stuff like that.).

So I hopped on the PTS, created a new Necro (as EU characters aren't transferred yet), threw together a simple build I could see myself using for solo PVE and did a quick test on a 3M dummy.

Being able to swap Degen for Spirit Guardian and Camo Hunter for Boneyard, Scythe, Barbed Trap, Executioner or maybe even Necrotic Potency/Deaden Pain or another fun Necro skill would be great. Of course I could use weapon pots and do just that, but I've got to use those free Crown Store Potions for something right?

LukosCreyden

This poor class is so buggered there is barely anyone on the forums even discussing it, compared to the other classes. Just a couple QoL changes (not even dps increases) would do wonders for the class.

OtarTheMad

BasP wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Others have said i, I've said it:

Brutality on Archer
Savagery on Siphon

Now Necro's got lots more Crit Chance at Execute and uptime on the Penetration passive. A big buff mechanically and thematically in PvP with little elevation of DPS in PvE (I think anyhow, I don't know much about PvE).

Yup, those buffs would definitely be nice to have. I'm guessing it wouldn't change all that much for end-game PVE'ers, but I'd like it from my more casual POV. I haven't actually played with my Stamcro or Magcro in a long while, but for some reason I found myself wanting to play with the class again leading up to this PTS. (I probably subconsciously hoped for some nice QOL changes to the class which incorporated the new "while slotted on either bar" mechanic and stuff like that.).

So I hopped on the PTS, created a new Necro (as EU characters aren't transferred yet), threw together a simple build I could see myself using for solo PVE and did a quick test on a 3M dummy.

Being able to swap Degen for Spirit Guardian and Camo Hunter for Boneyard, Scythe, Barbed Trap, Executioner or maybe even Necrotic Potency/Deaden Pain or another fun Necro skill would be great. Of course I could use weapon pots and do just that, but I've got to use those free Crown Store Potions for something right?

I think giving these buffs to Necromancer wouldn’t help the majority of players but I could be wrong. Like you said endgame might not change much with these changes. I can say that also, at least for me, let’s say Skeletal got sorcery/brutality and tether got savagery, those abilities still wouldn’t make it on my bar in PvP in Cyrodiil. Maybe a duel.

Skeletal summons isn’t an ability you can count on for damage in a fight, unless it’s a guaranteed 1v1 and those do not happen in Cyrodiil much, the ability is pretty much a passive… just a way to get the penetration passive active. The tether ability, while a good one imo, isn’t one you can 100% rely on because you do not know who you are going to tether to, and wasting time recasting until you hit a corpse you created or an npc just wastes time in a fight. Let’s say you put them on something else, well Graveyard is situational and BB still gets drunk from time to time. Maybe a non-offensive ability gets them but that just reverts back to not solving the classes problem: offensive abilities aren’t worth slotting.

I think you have to make the abilities worth slotting in a vast majority of eso content and if they are not then adding a buff to them isn’t going to make them shine. I’ve said it before and I’ll mention it here again I would still take entropy over skeletal summons for sorcery because I can control who gets hit with it and it’s a dot which Necros have a passive for.

Idk, ZOS will do what they want.

Lazarus_Rising

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

There are two crucial and one more or less important thing in pvp which necromancer does not really have.

1. On demand stun
2. Execute
3. Escape

When necromancer came out i would combine the former vampire drain stun with colossus and had great results in pvp. Now there is no stun anymore and the colossus lost all its former power. It could be still a good combo if we would get a proper instantaneous stun in combination with the new colossus changes. Otherwise every slightly experienced player will dodge or run out of the ultimate. I still do not get why the vampire stun was too much but skills like petrify are more than fine.

It seems like that ZOS intention is not to give necromancer an execute which is fine but then we need a stun so we have a time window where we can make use of the

Increases your Critical Strike Chance against enemies under 25% Health by 8% for each Grave Lord ability slotted.

In order to properly use the passive tho we need more grave lord abilites to matter in pvp. Right now you will probably have blast bones and colossus on front bar which is 16% crit chance for a short time duration. That is not enough to replace an execute.

Flame Skull, Skeleton Mage or Archer, Boneyard and Siphon are not really being used in pvp.(Maybe Boneyard for the remaining people like me who cling to Dark Convergence still...)

The escape is not a really a must but helps a lot to get some time window for recovery. There are reallly two usable skills for getting some distance between an enemy and yourself which is either the psijic skill accelerate or the vampire mist form. I can live with that.

What do you think?

That was my post from another thread.

BasP

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Others have said i, I've said it:

Brutality on Archer
Savagery on Siphon

Now Necro's got lots more Crit Chance at Execute and uptime on the Penetration passive. A big buff mechanically and thematically in PvP with little elevation of DPS in PvE (I think anyhow, I don't know much about PvE).

Yup, those buffs would definitely be nice to have. I'm guessing it wouldn't change all that much for end-game PVE'ers, but I'd like it from my more casual POV. I haven't actually played with my Stamcro or Magcro in a long while, but for some reason I found myself wanting to play with the class again leading up to this PTS. (I probably subconsciously hoped for some nice QOL changes to the class which incorporated the new "while slotted on either bar" mechanic and stuff like that.).

So I hopped on the PTS, created a new Necro (as EU characters aren't transferred yet), threw together a simple build I could see myself using for solo PVE and did a quick test on a 3M dummy.

Being able to swap Degen for Spirit Guardian and Camo Hunter for Boneyard, Scythe, Barbed Trap, Executioner or maybe even Necrotic Potency/Deaden Pain or another fun Necro skill would be great. Of course I could use weapon pots and do just that, but I've got to use those free Crown Store Potions for something right?

I think giving these buffs to Necromancer wouldn’t help the majority of players but I could be wrong. Like you said endgame might not change much with these changes. I can say that also, at least for me, let’s say Skeletal got sorcery/brutality and tether got savagery, those abilities still wouldn’t make it on my bar in PvP in Cyrodiil. Maybe a duel.

Skeletal summons isn’t an ability you can count on for damage in a fight, unless it’s a guaranteed 1v1 and those do not happen in Cyrodiil much, the ability is pretty much a passive… just a way to get the penetration passive active. The tether ability, while a good one imo, isn’t one you can 100% rely on because you do not know who you are going to tether to, and wasting time recasting until you hit a corpse you created or an npc just wastes time in a fight. Let’s say you put them on something else, well Graveyard is situational and BB still gets drunk from time to time. Maybe a non-offensive ability gets them but that just reverts back to not solving the classes problem: offensive abilities aren’t worth slotting.

I think you have to make the abilities worth slotting in a vast majority of eso content and if they are not then adding a buff to them isn’t going to make them shine. I’ve said it before and I’ll mention it here again I would still take entropy over skeletal summons for sorcery because I can control who gets hit with it and it’s a dot which Necros have a passive for.

Idk, ZOS will do what they want.

Coincidentally I have changed my mind a bit since I made that post. I later did two tests on a 3M dummy with a Stamblade using the same gear sets and stipulations I set for myself (getting the Major buffs from skills instead of Weapon Pots) because I was wondering if I liked the changes to Grim Focus.

I ended up doing 51K DPS, which is 21% more than my Necro parse, while the sustain felt better too using bi-stat food. The Necromancer does need more help than access to those class buffs in its kit, even from my casual PVE POV. And the fact that quite a few DD skills are apparently quite useless in PvP doesn't help the class either.

IncultaWolf

LukosCreyden wrote: »

This poor class is so buggered there is barely anyone on the forums even discussing it, compared to the other classes. Just a couple QoL changes (not even dps increases) would do wonders for the class.

Because all the former necro players swapped over to dragonknight after the nerfs

Rampeal

To be fair, Necromancer are the premier health tank. Their main spam skill Scythe is all about this. Not to mention their Gravelord ultimate. Maybe Necro is just meant to be a tank class, or at least that is what Zos wants it to be.

Melzo

Rampeal wrote: »

To be fair, Necromancer are the premier health tank. Their main spam skill Scythe is all about this. Not to mention their Gravelord ultimate. Maybe Necro is just meant to be a tank class, or at least that is what Zos wants it to be.

Pulled on your ears? One skill and all? main tank?

Ankael07

Only ZOS would acknowledge a class lacking in damage and nerf them in the same patch notes

JerBearESO

Necro bash builds are actually worse than dk in pvp, only people don't seem to use them. They drop em dead with super high burst and consistent threat while being pretty hard to kill. Good thing few are catching on....

Shepoffire

A good start would be to remove the tethers. Make them sticky dots but they function the same way give the the brutality sorcery buff while slotted and give it the any bar treatment. Then go from there

CameraBeardThePirate

Shepoffire wrote: »

A good start would be to remove the tethers. Make them sticky dots but they function the same way give the the brutality sorcery buff while slotted and give it the any bar treatment. Then go from there

Tethers absolutely need to be reworked. Theyre nigh useless in PvP, and cause a headache in PvE every time a new boss is released and the hitboxes don't line up.

katorga

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Others have said i, I've said it:

Brutality on Archer
Savagery on Siphon

Now Necro's got lots more Crit Chance at Execute and uptime on the Penetration passive. A big buff mechanically and thematically in PvP with little elevation of DPS in PvE (I think anyhow, I don't know much about PvE).

Brutality and Savagery on them just for being "slotted on either bar". I don't want to have to actually use that garbage in pvp.

I'd prefer Brutality as a class passive for having any pet active. That way you get it from BB, Mender, Archer or a proc pet.

techprince

Lol, blastbones.

StarOfElyon

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Those sorts of builds work yes but then why are you playing a Necro? If you're playing that, you're playing to maximize your chances at success, so you absolutely might as well be DK or Warden.

Like StamDK or MagDen for many years, if you play Necro right now, you do it for style and challenge, not for maximizing your chances at success.

Depends how you look at things which is the more honorable way to PvP: play with some challenge in favor of the aesthetic and thematic, or play for the utmost advantage for your alliance / team.

Thank you. End of story.

xylena_lazarow

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

So many indirect nerfs to the class over the years

And another indirect nerf with the loss of its best melee PvP spammable in MDW Twin Slashes.

Twohothardware

It honestly doesn't make sense why they don't put more effort into making Necro better when visually it's one of the best looking classes in the game, it's still a fairly new class, and people have to pay for it in the Crown Store which means the better it is the more money they make.

OtarTheMad

Twohothardware wrote: »

It honestly doesn't make sense why they don't put more effort into making Necro better when visually it's one of the best looking classes in the game, it's still a fairly new class, and people have to pay for it in the Crown Store which means the better it is the more money they make.

Agreed. It makes no sense because ZOS does not really do this to any other class. If they did this consistently to all classes then it'd be understandable but Necro has been nerfed or just left alone since like 2020. I am completely blown away.

Pelanora

Someone in zos, their grandma got killed by a necromancer. Only explanation.

StarOfElyon

Pelanora wrote: »

Someone in zos, their grandma got killed by a necromancer. Only explanation.

Specifically by Blastbones.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

At this point the only hope the class has is the Scribing System.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Or you will have to accept that the Necromancer class is not for dealing DPS, it is for tanking hence why they get an ultimate that buffs their health by 30,000 points.