Why is Arcanist not called a Warlock, or a cultist?

KingArthasMenethil

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

Lore wise I just find it odd that the class is an arcanist when given its connection to a daedric prince, hormeus modra, Cultist or Warlock would be a better fitting class name.

In Skyrim they were called Mora Cultists in the dragonborne DLC

Because Warlock and Cultists are too generic for a class focusing on one Daedric Prince.
Arcanists are focused on Mora entirely.

VaranisArano

BulletMagnetX wrote: »

It comes from the Latin term "arcanum" meaning "secret". In the 18th century, arcanists were people who knew of secrets related to pottery, in particular that of making true porcelain, which was known exclusively by the Chinese until 1707. There are several known and named arcanists in real European history, such as Joseph Jakob Ringler, Robert Dubois, and Paul-Antoine Hannong and his sons Joseph-Adam and Pierre-Antoine.

In the modern age the term has come to be used for magical knowledge, stemming from authors who found it to be a useful word for magical knowledge that would have been kept hidden, ie secret knowledge of creating magic. Other creators since derived the term in relation to magic, sometimes retaining the connection to secrecy, but more often forgetting it.

We see the term in the likes of D&D and Pathfinder, where "Arcana" is a knowledge skill related to magic. And in Pathfinder the Arcanist player class, designed as a fusion of the principles of the Wizard and Sorcerer class, is described as a magical scholar, and like the wizard, they store and derive their magical knowledge in and from their spell book.

The book of magic is a common theme whenever the term "arcana" and related terms appears in fantasy. Indeed, magical secrets are almost always hidden away in books and scrolls (very rarely are they kept in other ways). And for the Daedric Lord or Knowledge, who hordes lost and forbidden tomes of all kinds within his realm, it makes perfect sense that those who derive their magical power from the secrets within and channel it through a magical book of inconceivable knowledge would call themselves Arcanists.

"Cultists"? "Warlocks"? Perhaps. But these would generally be terms used by other people who distrust them. "Arcanist" is most likely the name they gave themselves, and they are very lucky indeed that it appears to be the one that stuck.

I just wanted to tell you that this was ridiculously educational for me as a D&D player and I love it.

prof-dracko

LunaFlora wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

Unrelated to the name, but I wonder if an Arcanist who loses the favor of Hermaus Mora will also lose most of their powers.

It seems that the Arcanist's power comes from the tome, which is linked to Apocrypha, not directly from Hermaeus Mora.

Ah yes, linked to Apocrypha, Mora's realm. The extension of his power, the realm he made and is the ruler of. Very indirect. It's like saying something is connected to the Deadlands over Mehrunes Dagon, or to Nescafé over Nestlé. It really doesn't make a difference.

Apocrypha isn't Mora and Deadlands isn't Mehrunes Dagon. Mora doesn't give Arcanists their power.

Well actually...in lore a Prince's realms are literal extensions of themselves. They ARE the realm. Just because things happen in it they don't know about doesn't mean they aren't in full control. I mean are YOU fully aware of every bacterium and mite on your body?
Arcanists do get their power from Mora, but there's no contract involved. Mora just seems pretty chill about letting them do what they want, although that's not to say he's probably not getting something out of it all. Per UESP "Arcanist tomes are not to be confused with the Black Books, though Hermaeus Mora himself compared their two powers, with both being knowledge he supposedly allows into Nirn. The Prince is capable of communicating with arcanists through these tomes."

notyuu

Simple, you use an arcane tome to do stuff

CamelhairNerve

Few cultists call themselves cultists (if any).

In the far-flung future, the Cult of Mora could be a name applied to them by others having no defined name.

Also, cult isn't a classification of abilities but of organization. You can have cultists who are botanists, civil engineers, accountants, musicians, masseuses, and whatever all for the sake of the cult.

As for Warlock, how does Tamriel define that? There are some terminology used in Tamrielic lore that doesn't match with RL historic words. The etymology of RL words often have not applied in-lore.

The only problem I'm having is how tightly the definition of Arcanist in ancient Tamriel is tied to HM. You cannot have an Arcanist of Zenithar or Jode. If you're Arcanist, you're HM. Full stop.

LunaFlora

CamelhairNerve wrote: »

Few cultists call themselves cultists (if any).

In the far-flung future, the Cult of Mora could be a name applied to them by others having no defined name.

Also, cult isn't a classification of abilities but of organization. You can have cultists who are botanists, civil engineers, accountants, musicians, masseuses, and whatever all for the sake of the cult.

As for Warlock, how does Tamriel define that? There are some terminology used in Tamrielic lore that doesn't match with RL historic words. The etymology of RL words often have not applied in-lore.

The only problem I'm having is how tightly the definition of Arcanist in ancient Tamriel is tied to HM. You cannot have an Arcanist of Zenithar or Jode. If you're Arcanist, you're HM. Full stop.

that's new for a class

wardens get their magic from Y'ffre/are worshippers of Y'ffre.
doesn't really change that you can still be for any other diety though.
most people in elder scrolls are polytheistic.

being tied to a diety through your magic doesn't exclude any other ties you can have.

now i doubt mora would like it if an arcanist decided to help Vaermina and Peryite, but i also don't really think he'd take away an arcanist's tome.