Destructible milegates NOT BALANCED at all.

VvwvenomwvV

Today in Cyrodiil at the Ash Milegate, DC destroyed the gate. Then they kept a guy behind their gate constantly sieging the gate so it cannot be repaired! He also had a tent for DC on that side as well. Also, all of the gates were destroyed like this with people sieging them.

Why is it unbalanced? DC has ramps on their side they can use to go over the wall towards AD. EP has ramps toward DC. AD has nothing towards anyone.

Bridges, and paths can be used by everyone. The direct path advantage is unbalanced and should be fixed.

Punitio

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

Today in Cyrodiil at the Ash Milegate, DC destroyed the gate. Then they kept a guy behind their gate constantly sieging the gate so it cannot be repaired! He also had a tent for DC on that side as well. Also, all of the gates were destroyed like this with people sieging them.

Why is it unbalanced? DC has ramps on their side they can use to go over the wall towards AD. EP has ramps toward DC. AD has nothing towards anyone.

Bridges, and paths can be used by everyone. The direct path advantage is unbalanced and should be fixed.

I agree. There's lots of bugs in Cyrodiil that's have been there for years and never fixed, so i don't expect anything from devs to the pvp community.

[edited for bashing]

Dr_Con

The side with the outpost gets shut out of the wall hopping advantage. AD have ADvantages in different ways (if the enemy does FD seige of Alessia they literally have the ultimate defense), but their main weakspot is really Vlastarus. It also takes little effort to rid the other side of someone keeping the wall damaged, as there are indestructable bypasses for the milegates (goatpass and mountainpass) and bridges (pirate bridge), so one person can never completely lock down a bridge or wall. These obstacles really only direct your faction's zerg into attacking a different side and have zero bearing on coordinated group or solo effort, just zergpvp (if you can even call it pvp).

The positioning of the outposts being disadvantageous to EP specifically explains a lot of the backdooring tactics employed by AD. Imagine how bad it would be if Carmala was where vlast is, and vlast was further east? That's the sort of disadvantage EP has to live with.

I would see DC as the easiest to play as as they have zero weaknesses in the form of disadvantageous outpost positioning (they also have the most rocky terrain, making it easy to LOS any invaders), AD as intermediate-difficult, and EP as the most difficult considering the speed of outpost and town capture. DC's biggest weakness is probably Bruma being so close to Dragonclaw and Dragonclaw being a mighty trek away from everything else in comparison to other border keeps, but by comparison Harlun's Outpost has the absolute worst positioning of any outpost and offers no advantage to defending Drakelowe, and is particularly disadvantageous to the EP trikeeps.

If they want to balance this, they could consider making Weynon Priory be capturable or flipping WPO to be closer to the DC scrolls instead of its current hemorroidal positioning. They could also make Harluns be unique in that it connects to Farragut as opposed to (or in addition to) Drakelowe, or just remove it altogether. The fact that DC have no tactical disadvantages from outposts is pretty inescapable and I doubt much can be done to argue a change in their placement.

VvwvenomwvV

I don't want to upset anyone, especially Zos. I would like to just humbly request a look at the Milegate situation. Heck, removing the destructible Milegates, and bridgedes might help with some lag as well?

Dr_Con

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

I don't want to upset anyone, especially Zos. I would like to just humbly request a look at the Milegate situation. Heck, removing the destructible Milegates, and bridgedes might help with some lag as well?

I would look into why you or no one is using the goatpass or pirate bridge to get behind enemy lines and kill the people laying waste to the bridge or milegate.

If both of these are your concern at the same time, then the other two sides would be attacking eachother

VvwvenomwvV

The bridges, and passes are for everyone. Also, they are out of the way, and can take a considerable amount of time to use them. Everyone who plays Cyrodiil knows that hardly no one uses those areas. It's one of those things that looks okay on paper, but doesn't work as expected in-game.

AD should have some type of ramp, or something to get across Lessy bridge towards EP. That would be like the Ourboroos. However, AD has nothing.

It's not balanced. AD should have a "DIRECT" path towards EP, that can be destroyed, and EP has to go around.

Personally, the OP discussion about people taking advantage of the mechanics to keep it damaged so it cannot be repaired is most important. I hope they will fix this.

Dr_Con

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

The bridges, and passes are for everyone. Also, they are out of the way, and can take a considerable amount of time to use them. Everyone who plays Cyrodiil knows that hardly no one uses those areas. It's one of those things that looks okay on paper, but doesn't work as expected in-game.

AD should have some type of ramp, or something to get across Lessy bridge towards EP. That would be like the Ourboroos. However, AD has nothing.

It's not balanced. AD should have a "DIRECT" path towards EP, that can be destroyed, and EP has to go around.

Personally, the OP discussion about people taking advantage of the mechanics to keep it damaged so it cannot be repaired is most important. I hope they will fix this.

Honestly in the way you described it's probably the least important because it's the most easily countered. That person or group of people are keeping that Alessia bridge destroyed because your side keeps zerging them. If your side is unable to kill a handful of people then it just supports the fact that your side is zerging and can't coordinate to take out a few people who are tired of being zerged. Bridge destruction works in reverse as well, so if your side (AD) are tired of being zerged by EP over the bridge, you can destroy it as well- as we see being done constantly.

There are people out there who tire of 2 hour long bridge battles and choose to destroy the bridges as well, as objectives elsewhere might be getting ignored because people are fighting on the bridge. There's tons of reasons to destroy the bridge, and each time it gets destroyed people will get upset. But I entirely disagree with the notion that there is no counterplay to it due to the existence of other bridges and milegates as well as the indestructable pirate/werewolf bridge and the goatpass.

Four_Fingers

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

Today in Cyrodiil at the Ash Milegate, DC destroyed the gate. Then they kept a guy behind their gate constantly sieging the gate so it cannot be repaired! He also had a tent for DC on that side as well. Also, all of the gates were destroyed like this with people sieging them.

Why is it unbalanced? DC has ramps on their side they can use to go over the wall towards AD. EP has ramps toward DC. AD has nothing towards anyone.

Bridges, and paths can be used by everyone. The direct path advantage is unbalanced and should be fixed.

AD has a crossing down by the Lunar docks, not far from Bloodmayne to get into EP.
Pick up the skyshard you pass as bonus.
Not to mention 3 bridges.
There is a goat path into DC from AD side just north of Carmala outpost.

Dr_Con

Four_Fingers wrote: »

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

Today in Cyrodiil at the Ash Milegate, DC destroyed the gate. Then they kept a guy behind their gate constantly sieging the gate so it cannot be repaired! He also had a tent for DC on that side as well. Also, all of the gates were destroyed like this with people sieging them.

Why is it unbalanced? DC has ramps on their side they can use to go over the wall towards AD. EP has ramps toward DC. AD has nothing towards anyone.

Bridges, and paths can be used by everyone. The direct path advantage is unbalanced and should be fixed.

AD has a crossing down by the Lunar docks, not far from Bloodmayne to get into EP.
Pick up the skyshard you pass as bonus.
Not to mention 3 bridges.
There is a goat path into DC from AD side.

The OP, who is AD, specifically wants a way to keep going after either EP or DC even with the bridges or milegates destroyed, via the destroyed route. EP and DC get to jump off the ramparts of their milegates, he wants something similar for AD to go at EP, arguing that the bridge having no way to jump into EP territory combined with DC having the ability to jump into their territory makes things imbalanced for AD.

Four_Fingers

Kind of nit picky though, they should move to the high country. lol
Never seen it be a problem, but oh well.
From my time on AD PS NA AD never being organized or having good groups is more of a problem.

Also be sure to destroy left, right and not just the center of the mile gates.

If they went back to non destructible mile gates it wouldn't matter at all as they would always be passible unless you guard them, I rarely saw anyone do that in 9 years. lol

ArchMikem

If no one uses those passes, then you won't encounter any resistance on your way to flank the player keeping the bridge down. Your only enemy here is impatience then since you claim using it takes too long. It's either that, or be contained indefinitely.

That's the point behind the destructible gates and bridges, to deny enemy forces a swift advance. If you know a zerg is heading down the lane toward Chalman and they're currently pushing Bleaks from Ales, blow the Milegate. That buys Chalman time for your side to rally and counterattack without losing more keeps.

If you're the aggressor, a extra couple minutes using the bypasses will solve that problem.

OBJnoob

Does the fact that there are ways around it really matter? I think OP is saying they would like a direct path because the other alliances have one. It doesn't seem to be about impatience to me he's just pointing out things aren't quite fair.

Now if the goat passes weren't accessible from both sides this might be a good answer. But they are. Why does AD need to take extra time when the other alliance doesn't? Why does OP need to be patient when other alliances don't even have the problem?

Personally I would just make it so you can't climb up either side. And everybody has to use the goat pass. This is how the bridges work. And is probably why the bridges aren't being complained about.

disintegr8

Of all the problems in Cyrodiil, destructible mile gates and/or bridges would be way down the urgency list.

OBJnoob

Are you worried that if you agree to something agreeable it'll end up as the #1 priority?

Let's see... What do most people agree on... We want performance to be better. We want a working list of sets for Ravenwatch. We want to be able to mount.

If any of those ever happen then you can start shooting down other perfectly valid concerns. Until then you might be being contrarian for no real reason.

VvwvenomwvV

They should remove the ramps DC, and EP have, or add ramps that only AD can access. It is currently umbalanced.

To make it worse, people are abusing it by sieging it from their side so you cannot repair it, and they have a camp right there on their side. People respawn, go over the ramp, and it's hard to stop.

Regardless of what faction you root for, you cannot deny this is just wrong, and It should be fixed.

All factions should have a "DIRECT" path towards the objectives.

Eso factions are built as a three way fight for power. The Eso symbol, Ouroboros, has a balance to it. One faction devouring the other, as the other devoures the next. Now imagine if that symbol had a milegate only blocking AD from the direct path.

It would look wrong.

It is wrong.

It should be fixed.

BlueRaven

So if I am understanding this correctly, even if a gate is destroyed, DC can still use them to get to AD areas, and EP can still use them to get to DC areas. But the destroyed bridges do not offer that kind of access for AD to get to EP?

Yeah that is really unbalanced.

Either remove the ability to cross the destroyed gates from either side, OR make it so that AD can still leap across the broken bridge to EP's side.

EDIT: So was this just recently discovered? Why has this not been brought up before?

Vevvev

BlueRaven wrote: »

So if I am understanding this correctly, even if a gate is destroyed, DC can still use them to get to AD areas, and EP can still use them to get to DC areas. But the destroyed bridges do not offer that kind of access for AD to get to EP?

Yeah that is really unbalanced.

Either remove the ability to cross the destroyed gates from either side, OR make it so that AD can still leap across the broken bridge to EP's side.

EDIT: So was this just recently discovered? Why has this not been brought up before?

That's been known for a really long time sadly, but if you want to stop one side from jumping over the gate blow up the sides.

Destroying the sides will destroy the wooden parts that allow people to get up and over the wall. It's more time consuming than the bridges, but complete and total lockout is possible.

Also all 3 borders feature an unblockable tunnel, or in the case of the AD/EP border a makeshift bridge, that can be used to bypass the milegates/bridges completely.

BlueRaven

Vevvev wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So if I am understanding this correctly, even if a gate is destroyed, DC can still use them to get to AD areas, and EP can still use them to get to DC areas. But the destroyed bridges do not offer that kind of access for AD to get to EP?

Yeah that is really unbalanced.

Either remove the ability to cross the destroyed gates from either side, OR make it so that AD can still leap across the broken bridge to EP's side.

EDIT: So was this just recently discovered? Why has this not been brought up before?

That's been known for a really long time sadly, but if you want to stop one side from jumping over the gate blow up the sides.

Destroying the sides will destroy the wooden parts that allow people to get up and over the wall. It's more time consuming than the bridges, but complete and total lockout is possible.

Also all 3 borders feature an unblockable tunnel, or in the case of the AD/EP border a makeshift bridge, that can be used to bypass the milegates/bridges completely.

Yeah, I knew about the unblockable access points. I just did not know about the destroyed gate “jumping”.
Still weird that this has not been addressed.

Dojohoda

AD seems to deal with it quite well, at least on pcna they do.

katanagirl1

You know you can repair those milegates, right?

OtarTheMad

Get a ganker to walk around, kill the dude, burn the siege and camp, and then repair the gate... winner.

It confuses me to no end how these milegates get destroyed and all momentum is gone. Idk how many times EP has destroyed the Chalman milegate and DC is just lost... it's like they revert to cavemen "No go, what do now?" They don't even look at the map and see that the other two gates are passable and the goat path is also an option.

DC at the gates:

Honestly, before the milegates were destroyable groups would just camp it and set up ap farms so they'd still be unpassable.

ganzaeso

Something like the grappler vines in Murkmire on the EP side of the bridge that are accessible when the tower is fully repaired would be slightly more fair in terms of gate/bridge travel.

VvwvenomwvV

katanagirl1 wrote: »

You know you can repair those milegates, right?
Not when the side using the ramps to get over it has 1 ballista still shooting it from their side. You cannot repair something that is being damaged. They sit there with a camp, 1 ballista, and some repair kits. It's completely unbalanced/ broken.

VvwvenomwvV

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Get a ganker to walk around, kill the dude, burn the siege and camp, and then repair the gate... winner.

It confuses me to no end how these milegates get destroyed and all momentum is gone. Idk how many times EP has destroyed the Chalman milegate and DC is just lost... it's like they revert to cavemen "No go, what do now?" They don't even look at the map and see that the other two gates are passable and the goat path is also an option.

DC at the gates:

Honestly, before the milegates were destroyable groups would just camp it and set up ap farms so they'd still be unpassable.

AD is the only faction that has to go completely out of the way to do this. Hence "UNBALANCED".

AD should have the same as DC,and EP.

Holycannoli

The milegates only slow the other faction down. There is always a way past them. There is a tunnel between AD and DC that cannot be blocked off. Same with between DC and EP. I think AD and EP have a path across the river.

SpacemanSpiff1

they seem pretty balanced. just go around

emilyhyoyeon

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

they seem pretty balanced. just go around

It's been explained like three times why they literally aren't balanced

NordSwordnBoard

The hardest thing about it is after you bypass the gate, why bother going after those enemies not earning any score? It suddenly becomes more important to take resources, an ouptpost, or keep than to kill people breaking a wall. The hammer makes gate smashing quick enough to justify the time spent. Otherwise, imagine the things you could get instead that get eval points.

You're not going to win a campaign due to breaking the enemy gates all the time. You will not lose a campaign if the enemy is breaking your gates all the time. I know the concept seems unfair on paper, but in practice its hardly an issue.

Marcus684

This obsession with “balance” is misplaced. ZOS appears to have made a token attempt to approximate similar conditions for all 3 alliances, but obviously hasn’t made the map exactly “balanced”. Each alliance has minor advantages and disadvantages with respect to things such as milegate/bridge construction, keep and resource placement, and outpost/town placement. This post is pointing out the “imbalance” in the milegate details, while ignoring the “imbalance” of the location of Harlun’s vs. Winter’s Peak/Carmala, or the differences in terrain between Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl that make countering siege more or less difficult.

As others have said, this “imbalance” is minor and easily compensated for by a short ride to the west. In fact, I’ve noticed that DC gets pretty complacent when Ash Milegate is blocked and tends to let their collective guard down, making us ripe for an attacker that is willing to spend the extra 2 minutes going around.

TechMaybeHic

I vote sliding ropes for AD from a taller point in the bridges being left in tact

SpacemanSpiff1

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

they seem pretty balanced. just go around

It's been explained like three times why they literally aren't balanced

not really. the stairs can be broken and there's alternate paths.