Nightblade Reaper's Mark needs a rework

OBJnoob

Right. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, because I still think what I said makes sense. And I'm not sure you're right that one-shotting with AW isn't a thing. There's a thread running currently with pictures of people getting hit for almost 30k. And people there are saying that skill isn't OP either, lol.

I mean can you walk up and one-shot a healthden? Can you one-shot a DK with buffs up? Can you X a small group of meta players? The answer to all is probably no. But if we're talking about stealth ganking then I think the gankers go for the "other" targets, of which there are a fair number. And if we're talking about Xing I think most of the Xed fall into the "other" category as well.

Also please realize that someone might just try to gank you while you're fighting someone else. Not everyone is at full health when they're ganked. Every one-shot doesn't have to be a real deal literal one-shot. In fact, returning this conversation to the case of Reapers Mark, the one-shot doesn't even have to come from you.

birdik

AndreNoir wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Take it from nightblade and give it to sorc.

Yeah ! Turn mage fury to mark and make mark a mage fury - sorcs will be happy for sure

It s an actually good idea)

React

It is mind numbing that people are in this thread actually trying to argue that this niche, useless, and outclassed (by ele susc) ability is OP.

Just say you hate nightblade. There are plenty of other things that ACTUALLY need to be adjusted within the class.

TechMaybeHic

I've been playing NB, and Necro, about 50/50 since my Templar just doesn't play the way I like and I'm kind of the other way on this with NB. I don't use it because of reasons other NBs mention. They can do what they want with Reapers Mark as far as I'm concerned.

Of course as a templar, I was always ok with people wanting Jesus beam nerfed as I found it niche, but here we are after they buffed it and nerfed pretty much everything else and I hate it. Imagining them going that way with Reapers March. I really dread them destroying more classes down to weird niche builds

OBJnoob

React wrote: »

It is mind numbing that people are in this thread actually trying to argue that this niche, useless, and outclassed (by ele susc) ability is OP.

Just say you hate nightblade. There are plenty of other things that ACTUALLY need to be adjusted within the class.

Yes, there are plenty of things that need adjusting. It's already impossible to find one that NB mains agree with... But now I'm supposed to hand pick a cherry from your personal list as well? Let me guess... You're all set and ready to link us to a "wonderful write-up" on the subject you posted X days ago?

Spare me bro-- your ideas aren't the only ideas.

What makes reapers mark differ from ele sus, in this context, is that reapers is hand-tailored to a ganking chain playstyle and ele sus is more beneficial in a prolonged fight. So while you may be right that ele sus is better I don't think that's extremely relevant in this context. Nor would a weapon skill have anything to do with NBs anyway and, as you said, NBs need adjustments.

In my experience ele sus is more an ice-staff back bar duel thing than an actual problem in cyrodiil or bgs where you're less able to focus single-target for prolonged periods and the target is being hit by other things/people and some of the status effects become redundant anyway.

Not that ele sus isn't still probably OP but honestly staves have been falling out of style for a while and I'd prefer they keep the 1 good thing they have.

AndreNoir

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yes, there are plenty of things that need adjusting. It's already impossible to find one that NB mains agree with... But now I'm supposed to hand pick a cherry from your personal list as well? Let me guess... You're all set and ready to link us to a "wonderful write-up" on the subject you posted X days ago?

You have to start control your NB's hate rly. There still a necrowardendk squads that able to run for hours around walls and dish a burst that a glasscannon NB can only dream of but you are still wasting time in threads like this

React

OBJnoob wrote: »

1

React wrote: »

It is mind numbing that people are in this thread actually trying to argue that this niche, useless, and outclassed (by ele susc) ability is OP.

Just say you hate nightblade. There are plenty of other things that ACTUALLY need to be adjusted within the class.

Yes, there are plenty of things that need adjusting. It's already impossible to find one that NB mains agree with... But now I'm supposed to hand pick a cherry from your personal list as well? Let me guess... You're all set and ready to link us to a "wonderful write-up" on the subject you posted X days ago?

Spare me bro-- your ideas aren't the only ideas.

Let's hear some of your ideas, then! However, if they're starting with "reaper's mark is actually OP", don't bother.

OBJnoob wrote: »

What makes reapers mark differ from ele sus, in this context, is that reapers is hand-tailored to a ganking chain playstyle and ele sus is more beneficial in a prolonged fight.

What are you even talking about? It puts a pillar of darkness over your target's head that says "I'm going to burst you!". No competent ganker would ever slot this ability to open with.

People are acting like major berserk alone is some huge damage boost, or that the "60k" heal matters when your burst heal is already healing for 12-15k. Casting ele susc on an ice staff grants a larger damage modifier than killing a player while your mark is on them. 5% vulnerability + 10% crit damage from brittle + 3 instances of damage (concussed proc, chilled proc, burning initial tick). The heal is redundant, it is going to overheal you for completing the most difficult proc condition in the game when you could just press your burst heal once or twice for the same exact effect.

OBJnoob wrote: »

In my experience ele sus is more an ice-staff back bar duel thing than an actual problem in cyrodiil or bgs where you're less able to focus single-target for prolonged periods and the target is being hit by other things/people and some of the status effects become redundant anyway.

Status effects are never redundant in 2023 ESO. Applying them as many times per second as possible is always beneficial. Burning/poisoned are now some of the stronger dots in the game, concussed is basically on par with major berserk, chilled when cast on an ice staff grants 10% crit damage done and 5% maim on your target. All insanely powerful and arguably overloaded effects that even have initial damage instances tied to them.

OBJnoob

All very good and laid out arguments. The thing is you seem to tout the benefits of ele sus but simultaneously act like the secondary effects of the other doesn't matter. Or that it isn't easy to notice when someone casts ele sus on you as well. Pretty similarly loaded skills in my opinion. But one is given to everyone and locked behind a less than ideal weapon choice while the other is NB only and whatever weapon they choose.

I don't hate nbs. I just think they're OP. Most of us can objectively agree on that. Just because someone doesn't agree with how I think they should be nerfed why do my recommendations boil down to hate and someone else is just in search of balance?

I didn't start this thread I just happen to agree with it. I happen to agree with the other thread saying that assassin's will is OP as well. Interestingly enough, in that thread, someone recently posted a video of ganking 3 people and using Mark. I don't really care in what way they're nerfed I won't pretend to be a game developer but as an avid player I will pretend to have insight into the matter equal to other players. I also don't necessarily want ALL the nerfs to happen at the same time, but since EVERY nerf NB thread is infested with the same distractions and defenders so I will agree with most of them and let whatever powers that be decide which is most appropriate.

How would I personally adjust NB? Make assassin's will auto-fire on the 5th LA to act more like delayed burst without taking up a GCD. Lower the tooltip.

Fix vampire so the active skills are more useful and the passives are less useful. And in so doing, get rid of the damage bonus when exiting stealth. This only benefits NB really and stacks to well with their kit.

Name Concealed Weapon's passive damage buff major berserk (minor might be even better tbh,) so that the two can't stack. This will sufficiently fix Reapers Mark as well IMHO.

TechMaybeHic

Vampire damage also buffs other classes just by leaving mist form, which BTW, is the cheapest root breaker and snare removal

Some merits to that discussion but its not really a NB thing

OBJnoob

You're right. And mist form is stupidly unbalanced and exploitable also, so make that part of the rework.

baselesschart

@OBJnoob
Are you referring to the video I posted in the AW thread? That build is not at all a gank build, if it were I could've dropped those players much quicker.

OBJnoob

Yes, yours is the video I was talking about. Sorry I said gank, no offense. With the recent changes to NB they are good at plenty of things besides ganking. I'm not sure if some people know that, judging by comments, but trust me I do.

Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or "use" you for anything, just getting tired of people telling me useful abilities have no use or that nightblades NEED to be able to do 25k hits because they only have 18k HP and 15k resists.

There's more than one way to build a NB and potential balance changes need to happen about TODAYS environment not people still playing NB from 3 years ago.

baselesschart

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yes, yours is the video I was talking about. Sorry I said gank, no offense. With the recent changes to NB they are good at plenty of things besides ganking. I'm not sure if some people know that, judging by comments, but trust me I do.

Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or "use" you for anything, just getting tired of people telling me useful abilities have no use or that nightblades NEED to be able to do 25k hits because they only have 18k HP and 15k resists.

There's more than one way to build a NB and potential balance changes need to happen about TODAYS environment not people still playing NB from 3 years ago.

Well to be fair all 3 of the people in that video were squishy. So its plausible that it could've seemed as if it was ganking.

OBJnoob

It was a good video. I think the reason why I thought it was a gank was because at first there was a red fighting a blue and you kinda walked up unnoticed and killed one.

But so now that we're talking about it... You had said in the other thread that you were using Mark. Out of curiosity, do you find it useful? Do you use the berserk morph?

baselesschart

OBJnoob wrote: »

It was a good video. I think the reason why I thought it was a gank was because at first there was a red fighting a blue and you kinda walked up unnoticed and killed one.

But so now that we're talking about it... You had said in the other thread that you were using Mark. Out of curiosity, do you find it useful? Do you use the berserk morph?

I was using it because I had swapped from night mother's gaze and was testing out stuhn's. The most useful part of it is major breach but most nightblades have access to that already from night mother's gaze so it doesn't really make it worth slotting.

The heal is nice but its so situational that it almost doesn't even matter.

So mark isn't a priority for me to slot

katorga

Complete heal to full NOT impacted by battle spirit plus major berserk. No other class has anything close. It is another example of ZOS going over the top last patch trying to give NB everything possible.

NB don't use it because they have even better skills to put on their bar. The problem I find is that I don't control when it goes off...I put it on a target, go in for a bomb, and if the target dies when I am at 90% health, not 10% health and the heal is wasted. On the other hand, if the marked target dies first, even though the heal is wasted, I get 10% damage for the remaining targets who are not dead yet. So there is that.

On a gank build, it heals me to full after each kill, and major berserk for the next target.

xDeusEJRx

React wrote: »

Are you implying that reapers mark is worth the slot on your bar? It was hardly worth using before it got given a cost in one of the recent patches, now it is a total non factor.

In what scenario where other people are securing the kill on the person you marked will the full health heal actually save you? It is such an incredibly niche secondary affect. The only useful scenario is 1vX where you can allow yourself to get to lower HP if it means securing the kill on the person you have marked, but even that is so specific and niche it doesn't warrant any sort of "nerf".

The skill also still suffers from a severe bug that has plagued it for years, where if you try to cast it while moving it'll stop your character in place (sometimes called "stutter step", arctic blast and soothing spores both have the same bug).

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would slot this ability now that it has a cost, especially with elemental susceptibility existing. If anything, the cost should be removed or the skill should be reworked entirely to have an actually useful secondary effect.

You're not wrong in saying what you said, however I still think getting a big heal plus damage bonus buff without even contributing is obviously not intended in the way it should be. I've been in situations where I get the heals/buff when I've stopped aggroing on a target and someone else killed them in BG's.

Obviously I didn't deserve getting a free buff for doing backing off and target switching. Hence why I don't think the ability should function that way. It seems kinda stupid to have it function in a way where you can benefit from not acting

xDeusEJRx

React wrote: »

It is mind numbing that people are in this thread actually trying to argue that this niche, useless, and outclassed (by ele susc) ability is OP.

Just say you hate nightblade. There are plenty of other things that ACTUALLY need to be adjusted within the class.

I doubt this is directed at me, however I think a skill where the function is get rewarded for finishing off someone, rewards you even without needing to actually feed into the skill. That's why I think it should be somewhat reworked to at least make sense playing into the skill how it's intended.

That's why I think it's fair that if it were changed to "if target dies within 3 seconds of you killing them" it still works how it should and it doesn't change much other than not getting a free buff without actually playing into the skill at all.

xDeusEJRx

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

the1andonlyskwex

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

xDeusEJRx

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

the1andonlyskwex

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

A normal burst heal skill is a lot more reliable.

xDeusEJRx

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

A normal burst heal skill is a lot more reliable.

Of course, but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing how it's obviously working in obviously unintended ways, being able to be buffed because someone other than yourself(especially from someone on enemy faction, that makes no sense) did the requirements of the skill and how that should be rectified.

And again, I ask do you think it's working as intended if someone from enemy faction can buff me with this skill by killing someone that I marked with this skill?

React

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

A normal burst heal skill is a lot more reliable.

Of course, but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing how it's obviously working in obviously unintended ways, being able to be buffed because someone other than yourself(especially from someone on enemy faction, that makes no sense) did the requirements of the skill and how that should be rectified.

And again, I ask do you think it's working as intended if someone from enemy faction can buff me with this skill by killing someone that I marked with this skill?

Yes, I would say that the skill is working exactly as intended, given that it reads "when a marked enemy dies".

I'd also say that 95% of the time your hypothetical situation occurs, it won't matter either offensively or defensively for you.

xDeusEJRx

React wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

A normal burst heal skill is a lot more reliable.

Of course, but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing how it's obviously working in obviously unintended ways, being able to be buffed because someone other than yourself(especially from someone on enemy faction, that makes no sense) did the requirements of the skill and how that should be rectified.

And again, I ask do you think it's working as intended if someone from enemy faction can buff me with this skill by killing someone that I marked with this skill?

Yes, I would say that the skill is working exactly as intended, given that it reads "when a marked enemy dies".

I'd also say that 95% of the time your hypothetical situation occurs, it won't matter either offensively or defensively for you.

I don't disagree that it won't be a super game changer. However, I still think it should actually require you to play into the skill to get the buff. I just think it seems like a lot to get when you don't actually have to play into the skill.

Now I'm not trying to say this is BiS or anything the like. I'm well aware that susceptibility is stronger, I once said that the skill was overtuned as well when it first got introduced in the PTS on a forum thread mentioning it. But I still think it's a lot to get for a skill that doesn't actively require you to play into it.

I think it's obviously an unintended consequence of the skill, I just proposed requiring active engaging to make the skill function how it should. Like damaging within 3 seconds would make sense and enemy factions or teammates can't just give you the free return for it.

Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Alchimiste1

Some of these takes are wild. Why would anyone gank with reapers mark. Thats like letting the enemy know you are about to attack them.

You know what change they should do to mark ? make it so you can see people in cloak/stealth for the next 15 seconds, then people MIGHT actually consider slotting it over ele sus.

React

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

React wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

A normal burst heal skill is a lot more reliable.

Of course, but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing how it's obviously working in obviously unintended ways, being able to be buffed because someone other than yourself(especially from someone on enemy faction, that makes no sense) did the requirements of the skill and how that should be rectified.

And again, I ask do you think it's working as intended if someone from enemy faction can buff me with this skill by killing someone that I marked with this skill?

Yes, I would say that the skill is working exactly as intended, given that it reads "when a marked enemy dies".

I'd also say that 95% of the time your hypothetical situation occurs, it won't matter either offensively or defensively for you.

I don't disagree that it won't be a super game changer. However, I still think it should actually require you to play into the skill to get the buff. I just think it seems like a lot to get when you don't actually have to play into the skill.

Now I'm not trying to say this is BiS or anything the like. I'm well aware that susceptibility is stronger, I once said that the skill was overtuned as well when it first got introduced in the PTS on a forum thread mentioning it. But I still think it's a lot to get for a skill that doesn't actively require you to play into it.

I think it's obviously an unintended consequence of the skill, I just proposed requiring active engaging to make the skill function how it should. Like damaging within 3 seconds would make sense and enemy factions or teammates can't just give you the free return for it.

Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Yes, I think that this line of thinking is pointless given nature of the ability and the aforementioned bugs + lack of power comparison to ele susc.

If anything, the better argument to take would be "The secondary effects of this skill are niche at best, and it should not have a cost as ele susc does not", or "The secondary effects of this skill are niche at best, they should be reworked entirely to provide some sort of value on cast, such as a unique buff/debuff on your target".

Arguing that the skill is somehow overperforming because of one niche and unlikely scenario just doesn't hold up.

xDeusEJRx

React wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

React wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

I think it's not really functioning how it should be. it's supposed to reward aggression for NB, this current iteration rewards you regardless of whether or not you're going offensive. You just get buffed because you apply this skill to someone.

That's why I think making it require damage within last 3 seconds makes sense so you don't get free buffs without even needing to aggro someone for it.

That would be a problem if you could spam Reaper's Mark on a bunch of enemies hoping one dies at a convenient time. Unfortunately for NBs that's not how it works though. You can only cast Mark on one target at a time, so using it for anything other than Major Breach is a big (and usually poor) gamble.

I agree but it can still be very abusable if someone wanted to. I imagine in group play or instances where you don't need to stick to one target, it can be quite strong getting free healing and 10% damage buff without needing to actively play into the skill.

Do you personally think this skill is fine where you're rewarded for not actively playing into the skill's function?

A normal burst heal skill is a lot more reliable.

Of course, but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing how it's obviously working in obviously unintended ways, being able to be buffed because someone other than yourself(especially from someone on enemy faction, that makes no sense) did the requirements of the skill and how that should be rectified.

And again, I ask do you think it's working as intended if someone from enemy faction can buff me with this skill by killing someone that I marked with this skill?

Yes, I would say that the skill is working exactly as intended, given that it reads "when a marked enemy dies".

I'd also say that 95% of the time your hypothetical situation occurs, it won't matter either offensively or defensively for you.

I don't disagree that it won't be a super game changer. However, I still think it should actually require you to play into the skill to get the buff. I just think it seems like a lot to get when you don't actually have to play into the skill.

Now I'm not trying to say this is BiS or anything the like. I'm well aware that susceptibility is stronger, I once said that the skill was overtuned as well when it first got introduced in the PTS on a forum thread mentioning it. But I still think it's a lot to get for a skill that doesn't actively require you to play into it.

I think it's obviously an unintended consequence of the skill, I just proposed requiring active engaging to make the skill function how it should. Like damaging within 3 seconds would make sense and enemy factions or teammates can't just give you the free return for it.

Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Yes, I think that this line of thinking is pointless given nature of the ability and the aforementioned bugs + lack of power comparison to ele susc.

If anything, the better argument to take would be "The secondary effects of this skill are niche at best, and it should not have a cost as ele susc does not", or "The secondary effects of this skill are niche at best, they should be reworked entirely to provide some sort of value on cast, such as a unique buff/debuff on your target".

Arguing that the skill is somehow overperforming because of one niche and unlikely scenario just doesn't hold up.

You are right, so the reason I make the claim I did is because it causes a strange interaction with the skill providing strong buffs without even actually playing into it. I personally think it's kind of more bang for your buck when this interaction is (probably) non intended.
Perhaps saying it's overloaded was a poor choice of words, though I think big heals and damage without a lot of effort is a quite strong, but that's a matter of personal opinion so I should've phrased it differently.

Also the thing about elemental susceptibility, I don't believe that changes a lot about what I said other than bringing into question another skill which is a stronger option. Which I myself agreed is too powerful in it's current state. I'm not trying to claim that it's the strongest option in the game, but I'm saying this interaction of the skill is making it stronger than what it should be.

Thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619661/elemental-susceptibility-doing-too-much-for-no-cost/p1

Though, I do think it probably doesn't warrant a cost to it.
But I don't think the cost is that egregious in the first place. I mean if you want to min/max, yes there's better options. Though I personally don't want to run destro for susceptibility on every build, so I still use this on some of my nightblade armory slots because I like to mix up my playstyle.

Now as to why I don't bring up this skill is because what needs to be said already has been, but no one acknowledges how this strange interaction of the skill is providing better benefits than what it should be. I feel it would be superfluous when discussing the overall topic, because I'm not trying to argue what is "meta".

Now other than that, I'm trying to understand if my line of thinking is faulty by changing it the way it does, because personally think it hardly drastically changes a lot about the skill other than to fix a weird interaction. It is a slight nerf to the skill if it had a requirement like "damage within last 3 seconds", but I don't think functionally changes the skill that much.

xDeusEJRx

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Some of these takes are wild. Why would anyone gank with reapers mark. Thats like letting the enemy know you are about to attack them.

You know what change they should do to mark ? make it so you can see people in cloak/stealth for the next 15 seconds, then people MIGHT actually consider slotting it over ele sus.

I personally think the reveal should be made longer, though on the piercing mark morph which is specifically supposed to do that.
Though this isn't an argument over the "meta", it's an argument over an interaction causing a skill to be stronger than normal