Nightblade Reaper's Mark needs a rework

xDeusEJRx

This ability grants you a full health heal and major berserk, that does NOT even require you to land a finishing blow on your enemy. As the description said, "when the marked enemy dies", meaning that you only require them to be dead to get full health heals and berserk. Obviously this is overtuned.

If this ability is going to give the buffs/heals that it does, it should be changed to require you to get a finishing blow on the marked target. Or make it have a stipulation such as "when the target dies within 3 seconds of being damaged by you, you get healed and receive major berserk"

DrNukenstein

I agree, it's a booty useless skill that:

-blows cover
-only puts major breach on one target at a time with no impact damage and costs resources
-doesn't give major berserk until after you kill your target and are already on your dandy way to sit in a corner and get your resources back
-gives a full heal after you kill your target and... ""

Personally I think it should just be backlash but without the up front damage, so you can use it from stealth, and a morph should stun when the damage triggers and the other should apply major breach.

baselesschart

I'm perfectly okay with the proposed changes you have listed. I'd also be okay with them reverting the ability back to costing nothing, I don't believe that would be OP.

React

Are you implying that reapers mark is worth the slot on your bar? It was hardly worth using before it got given a cost in one of the recent patches, now it is a total non factor.

In what scenario where other people are securing the kill on the person you marked will the full health heal actually save you? It is such an incredibly niche secondary affect. The only useful scenario is 1vX where you can allow yourself to get to lower HP if it means securing the kill on the person you have marked, but even that is so specific and niche it doesn't warrant any sort of "nerf".

The skill also still suffers from a severe bug that has plagued it for years, where if you try to cast it while moving it'll stop your character in place (sometimes called "stutter step", arctic blast and soothing spores both have the same bug).

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would slot this ability now that it has a cost, especially with elemental susceptibility existing. If anything, the cost should be removed or the skill should be reworked entirely to have an actually useful secondary effect.

Dojohoda

You can mark one enemy at a time. When the marked enemy dies, the fight is over. All you get is major breach during the fight.

malistorr

Totally useless skill that I don't touch. I'm a nightblade that plays about 3-4 hours/day. It's a waste of bar space. Unless a skill actually does good/big damage or heals me on demand I don't have bar space for it.

birdik

Half of nb skills should be reworked including this, fear, teleport strike, grim focus...

Brrrofski

Wait, you want it made even worse?

It's a terrible skill as it is.

It's an instant "I'm going to make sure I'm buffed and get ready to block" alert.

Nobody uses it.

And you want to make it weaker?

OBJnoob

Oh my, the amazing tools nightblades have that they consider useless. Must be nice.

Keep the skill the same. Take it from nightblade and give it to sorc. People will change their tunes then.

malistorr

Not really, have never used that skill since it's under-powered and don't have room on the bar for it.

Brrrofski

OBJnoob wrote: »

Oh my, the amazing tools nightblades have that they consider useless. Must be nice.

Keep the skill the same. Take it from nightblade and give it to sorc. People will change their tunes then.

Why does everyone assume people play one class?

I've played everything extensively in PvP and can honestly say this wouldn't make it on my bar for any class. Maybe only in a duel, and that wouldn't be for what OP is talking about.

OBJnoob

Why would you use a skill that gives a full heal and major berserk after your marked target dies... In a duel?

Anyway you just said you play everything. So there you go.

Seriously. Give it to sorc. It'd be great for them.

malistorr

Sorc has a skill like this. It is Weakness to Elements and the morphs. It's also a weapon skill so others can use it too. And just like on NB I didn't/don't use this on Sorc DPS. The NB skill isn't very thought out. Major Berserk is found on so many other skills or even pots or Oakensoul that is isn't needed with this skill. And many nightblades use stealth so not only are you not being seen/hit often but even if you were you don't need a full heal after killing an enemy because you're going to stealth away, restore some resources, and hunt for the next target. I'm thinking Cyrodiil PVP and not duels, even then a heal on a class that hides is pretty pointless. I guess that's why I don't use this skill. Nothing about it works with my play style. There are so many more useful skills to use for a NB.

taugrim

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Obviously this is overtuned.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I agree, it's a booty useless skill

Posts 1 and 2 in this thread are 100% saying opposite things 🤣🤣🤣.

I'm in the camp that Reaper's Mark is not overtuned. As @React noted a lot of NBs don't even slot the skill.

OBJnoob

Come to think of it you're right. Matter of fact... Resto staves have some heals as well. I guess sorcs have just never tried a Destro/resto setup and that's why they complain.

Nbs have, in their class kit, major evasion, snare removal, major expedition, roll dodge cost reduction up to 100%, invisibility, teleportation, pbAoE stun, major cowardice, minor cowardice, minor courage, guaranteed crits, choice between 20% damage done or major defile, 10% damage done, major berserk. Oh yes and unparalleled synergy with vampire passives.

Nerf mark. Nerf assassin's will. Nerf SOMETHING. I'm tired of this poop parade. The only thing worse than a NB in cyrodiil is a NB on the forums.

malistorr

The meta is tanky/healing wardens and DKs. NB is 3rd at best right now. Go complain about something else. I use all classes and NB isn't better than templar or sorc.

OBJnoob

The meta is tanky healing wardens and DKs because that's what it takes for a normal player to survive in outnumbered situations when they can't go invisible.

If a NB were to try and build tanky and for healing guess what you get? The current best dueling class.

NBs have so many good skills they can't even slot them all. Have so many playstyles they don't even realize them all.

But every time someone wants a nerf to something it isn't the right nerf. Riiiight. Cuz they aren't as good as templar or sorc. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

birdik

OBJnoob wrote: »

Come to think of it you're right. Matter of fact... Resto staves have some heals as well. I guess sorcs have just never tried a Destro/resto setup and that's why they complain.

Nbs have, in their class kit, major evasion, snare removal, major expedition, roll dodge cost reduction up to 100%, invisibility, teleportation, pbAoE stun, major cowardice, minor cowardice, minor courage, guaranteed crits, choice between 20% damage done or major defile, 10% damage done, major berserk. Oh yes and unparalleled synergy with vampire passives.

Nerf mark. Nerf assassin's will. Nerf SOMETHING. I'm tired of this poop parade. The only thing worse than a NB in cyrodiil is a NB on the forums.

Half of your list are meh actually)
Nerf dk, wardens first)

Xarc

2023 - still people crying about NB

olsborg

It should just be a passive thing, if you have the skill slotted at the time of you dealing dmg to a target they get major breach applied to them for 5-10 seconds, if they die while you have the debuff on them you get the heal and the berserk.

MEBengalsFan2001

malistorr wrote: »

The meta is tanky/healing wardens and DKs. NB is 3rd at best right now. Go complain about something else. I use all classes and NB isn't better than templar or sorc.

[snip]

Now that I pulled myself off the floor.

There is such a big up tick in NB on its not even funny. If I get kill 20 NB I know in under 20 minutes I'll have that quest done. If I get kill 20 templars, I ditch the quest and hope to get kill 20 NB again as it is the easiest one to get since everyone seems to be switching over to a NB in 2023.

[edited for profanity bypass]

malistorr

Weird I see mostly DKs when I play for 3-6 hours a night. Like probably 70% DKs. And then Templar is next followed by probably Necro and NB. DK's have by far the most OP things in the game (Corrosive) and lots of other skills like leap that are better than any class skills that NBs have. I think all the nerf NBs and nerf any other class posts are from DKs that are afraid of losing the huge advantages they have, even in the current patch.

OBJnoob

DKs are stupid strong, have been for a while. Wardens are stupid strong, have been for not quite as long. So you're right about that @malistorr HOWEVER I think you need to re-evaluate your idea of nightblades. You aren't giving them nearly enough credit. NB is insane right now. And it's hard to have an intelligent conversation about what (if anything,) needs to be done with someone that doesn't even know they're good. My guy you said they're worse than templar and sorc. There's no reasoning with that.

malistorr

I have literally no health added to my NB build (other than what I get from tri-glyphs which a lot of NBs don't even use and food) and no resistances other than what medium armor provides. I go all divines with an offensive mundus stone and all offensive gear sets. I do this because I have to in order to have hopes of killing the current tank/healbot meta. I run across quite a few DKs and wardens where I can barely put a dent in their health and have no chance of killing them. But yet they can still kill me easily. My resistances are somewhere between 17-20K and my health is between 25-30k depending on what buffs I have at the time (emp buffs, ayleid well etc.) So no, I don't feel OP right now at all. I'm a bow user and have probably about the strongest bow attacks possible because of how I'm built. Yet I can only really kill players that are built badly or setup like glass cannons like me. I get a lot of kills and am in the top 6 or so every month because I play a lot.

I suppose if I went more melee NB I could possibly be better but I don't like the 2H and even 1H skills much. I feel they are very wonky to land and when I tried playing as a melee player I didn't do well. Maybe I'll give it a try again. But I feel like I will still have to go mostly or all offensive for gear to be able to do enough damage to have a chance to kill most players. So I'll have to rely on stealth, just like I do as a bow user, to stay alive. I've tried building more tanky and couldn't do enough damage to kill many players. I just don't like how the melee skills work or how they feel and I'm not good at landing them effectively to be able to kill people.

NBs have to go just about glass cannon to get kills and rely on speed and stealth. So no, I don't feel OP regardless of how I play compared to tanky DKs and Wardens who seem to dish out plenty of damage at east and can walk around and hardly ever get killed unless they're zerged down.

blktauna

malistorr wrote: »

I have literally no health added to my NB build (other than what I get from tri-glyphs which a lot of NBs don't even use and food) and no resistances other than what medium armor provides. I go all divines with an offensive mundus stone and all offensive gear sets. I do this because I have to in order to have hopes of killing the current tank/healbot meta. I run across quite a few DKs and wardens where I can barely put a dent in their health and have no chance of killing them. But yet they can still kill me easily. My resistances are somewhere between 17-20K and my health is between 25-30k depending on what buffs I have at the time (emp buffs, ayleid well etc.) So no, I don't feel OP right now at all. I'm a bow user and have probably about the strongest bow attacks possible because of how I'm built. Yet I can only really kill players that are built badly or setup like glass cannons like me. I get a lot of kills and am in the top 6 or so every month because I play a lot.

I suppose if I went more melee NB I could possibly be better but I don't like the 2H and even 1H skills much. I feel they are very wonky to land and when I tried playing as a melee player I didn't do well. Maybe I'll give it a try again. But I feel like I will still have to go mostly or all offensive for gear to be able to do enough damage to have a chance to kill most players. So I'll have to rely on stealth, just like I do as a bow user, to stay alive. I've tried building more tanky and couldn't do enough damage to kill many players. I just don't like how the melee skills work or how they feel and I'm not good at landing them effectively to be able to kill people.

NBs have to go just about glass cannon to get kills and rely on speed and stealth. So no, I don't feel OP regardless of how I play compared to tanky DKs and Wardens who seem to dish out plenty of damage at east and can walk around and hardly ever get killed unless they're zerged down.

I've been saying the same things to this guy in the Assassin's will thread. The skills h'es upset about nobody even uses because in practice they are crapola.

good on paper !== good in practice

OBJnoob

Playstyles and ability sometimes dictate what class you are good at. I've never been a good nightblade, personally, but that has very little to do with how strong the class actually is. Neither do your personal struggles.

I don't really care about reapers mark personally. But assassin's will could use a nerf. Vampire could be changed to not be free bonuses for every NB. The crazy damage done bonuses are too much.

I don't really care how they get nerfed they just need a nerf. And every thread pertaining to the subject has nbs that arent very good at their class talking about how underpowered they are. But you go into cyrodiil, bgs, or duel in a big city and nbs are the cream of the crop.

Nbs are so OP they could fill a third bar with 5 more OP abilities.

AndreNoir

OBJnoob wrote: »

Take it from nightblade and give it to sorc.

Yeah ! Turn mage fury to mark and make mark a mage fury - sorcs will be happy for sure

TechMaybeHic

I've seen NB bombers use it in ball groups or just groups in large fights. Just keep it on likely target to die, and free major berserk , maybe a lucky heal to full while crashing to another group.

I get the application is not ideal for ganking but that doesn't mean it's not ridiculously overloaded

the1andonlyskwex

OBJnoob wrote: »

Why would you use a skill that gives a full heal and major berserk after your marked target dies... In a duel?

Anyway you just said you play everything. So there you go.

Seriously. Give it to sorc. It'd be great for them.

It might be "great" for Sorc in a "nerf Sorc more" sort of way. Reaper's Mark is terrible. It might be sort of okay as a pure addition for niche builds, but it would be a nerf compared to pretty much anything it could replace. In terms of build, it basically fills the same niche as Dark Deal (or Dark Conversion). Which would you rather have?

It would be great (bordering on overpowered) if it weren't restricted to a single target, but as-is it's garbage. You either put it on a secondary target (where you don't really need breach) hoping it will die and help you against your primary target, or you put it on your primary target for breach and get the heal when you probably don't need it anymore. In both cases you're not really benefiting from all of the features of the ability. If it weren't target restricted you could spread it around expecting that one of the targets will die, but as-is it's too much of a gamble.

(There are probably some niche 1vX or highly coordinated group situations where it's actually useful, but even in those cases it's only useful because the caster is exploiting other skill/class/gear imbalances, not because Reaper's Mark itself is unbalanced.)

OBJnoob

Skill/class/gear imbalances are what they are with or without mark. The idea behind giving your primary target major breach, killing them, gaining a full heal and major berserk for 10 seconds, stealthing out, marking a new target, and chaining the process into a 1vX situation isn't niche at all it's actually the perfect way to do it on paper. I watched a video a long time ago where this NB streamer was explaining about how you kill one person with incap, kill the next with AW, then incap, then AW, and just chain it back and fourth.

Now I do understand that due to bar space or incoming damage this isn't always possible or preferred... But isn't it just a little silly that such a strong class would have a tool like this just lying around? Lil extra OP cherry on top, y'know, Incase Concealed stops giving free unnamed major berserk they can just get it right back.

If they can't currently figure out a way to combine the two that's a "thank goodness" moment not a "the skill is useless" moment.

the1andonlyskwex

OBJnoob wrote: »

Skill/class/gear imbalances are what they are with or without mark. The idea behind giving your primary target major breach, killing them, gaining a full heal and major berserk for 10 seconds, stealthing out, marking a new target, and chaining the process into a 1vX situation isn't niche at all it's actually the perfect way to do it on paper. I watched a video a long time ago where this NB streamer was explaining about how you kill one person with incap, kill the next with AW, then incap, then AW, and just chain it back and fourth.

Now I do understand that due to bar space or incoming damage this isn't always possible or preferred... But isn't it just a little silly that such a strong class would have a tool like this just lying around? Lil extra OP cherry on top, y'know, Incase Concealed stops giving free unnamed major berserk they can just get it right back.

If they can't currently figure out a way to combine the two that's a "thank goodness" moment not a "the skill is useless" moment.

Except it's not OP. It's bad. I suppose it could be OP-ish if you're one-shotting people with incap and assassin's will, but that hasn't been a thing for years.

Edit: Also, remember that you only get the heal when your target dies, which is almost uselessly infrequent in the current tanky meta.