Please, explain DPS to me (console player)

SkaiFaith

Genuine question. I'm a console only player and with no add-ons to me DPS means Damage Per Second. So I use my timer on the phone to see how many seconds I need to take down a Dummy. Then I simply do Max Health divided by seconds needed and I have my DPS.
Apparently tough it's not really how it works, because I see videos in which someone claims, idk, 100K DPS on PC, and takes 55 seconds to take down the same World Boss I take down in 110 seconds, 1.8 million health.
If my math is right, that should mean my DPS is around 16K and his 32K.
What's going on here?
If his DPS is indicated as 100K does it mean mine is 50K (throwing random numbers here).
I don't understand, because 100K DPS should mean 18 seconds from start to finish on a solo WB with 1.8 millions, but I never see someone this quick, despite claiming insane DPS numbers...
PLEASE, help me understand where I should put myself in, in this DPS mess I don't get.
Thank you~

ArchMikem

The game itself calculates your dps when you fight a dummy, when you defeat it, the number pops up in the chat log. The number the game gives you is also an average, since you're not consistently outputting the same damage every second.

SkaiFaith

Ok, but... Still I don't get why it seems to be different the add-on calculation compared to a simple Max Heath divided by Seconds...
(Obv, I can't experience it myself)

spartaxoxo

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Ok, but... Still I don't get why it seems to be different the add-on calculation compared to a simple Max Heath divided by Seconds...
(Obv, I can't experience it myself)

The target dummy people typically use simulates a group environment. So, it will give you buffs and debuffs that a healer or tank would typically be giving you in a fight. You're not receiving these group buffs when attacking a boss, so what you're measuring is your solo DPS.

SkaiFaith

@spartaxoxo that makes sense! So if the person in the video claims, let's say 100K on a parse, it's just normal that he takes way more time to take down a WB in solo.
But since I parse only on WB or 6millions Dummies, I can't compare exactly my DPS to his 100K, right?
Should I assume that if my measured DPS is 16K, on a Trial Dummy would be way higher? Can you give me a guess by how much circa?
(Thank you by the way ^^)

spartaxoxo

SkaiFaith wrote: »

@spartaxoxo that makes sense! So if the person in the video claims, let's say 100K on a parse, it's just normal that he takes way more time to take down a WB in solo.
But since I parse only on WB or 6millions Dummies, I can't compare exactly my DPS to his 100K, right?
Should I assume that if my measured DPS is 16K, on a Trial Dummy would be way higher? Can you give me a guess by how much circa?
(Thank you by the way ^^)

Correct. You can't make that direct comparison. How much the difference would be, would depend on your build.

Squall8882

I'm on Xbox NA. I can help you If youre on EU I'll make a new character just to help. Message me @Squall8882

markulrich1966

SkaiFaith wrote: »

@spartaxoxo that makes sense! So if the person in the video claims, let's say 100K on a parse, it's just normal that he takes way more time to take down a WB in solo.
But since I parse only on WB or 6millions Dummies, I can't compare exactly my DPS to his 100K, right?
Should I assume that if my measured DPS is 16K, on a Trial Dummy would be way higher? Can you give me a guess by how much circa?
(Thank you by the way ^^)

every larger guild has the iron atronarch training dummy in the guildhall. It is a trial dummy.
You often read that you can get twice as much DPS compared to a normal one, but I think it is lower.
I am a low DPS player, and don't see much difference, but never had the patience to finish it, and have an inefficient rotation.
A good player indeed might get double DPS on it.

markulrich1966

DPS checks are a science on its own though.

E.g. mag DDs usually test using ghastly eyebowl as food, it increases max magica and mag regeneration speed.
So they can sustain their magica well. In vet dungeons though, they might go for a different food/drink, one that buffs health, too, to avoid a quick death. So in such a fight, they will have lower DPS than on the dummy, as they need to insert heavy staff attacks to recharge their magica.

Others use specific sets just to get high numbers on a parse, but use different sets in actual gameplay.
Like this they can "prove" that they meet the DPS requirements some trial groups demand, even if they might struggle to solo a harder worldboss.

SkaiFaith

I'm in a couple of guilds and at least one has the Iron Atronach I think, I just don't interact at all with my guilds... Perhaps I should try and check.

I main a Frost Warden but playing solo I built it tanky, so I have 50K health and 30K mag when buffed. Resources aren't a problem because I use kind of an Oakensoul Heavy Attack build.
Just wanted to have an idea of if my 16K DPS on a WB (or 6M Dummy) was that atrocious as it seems when compared to 100K on Trial Dummy from a DD. But Maybe it's safe to guess those DD can't last as much as my tanky Warden do if solo...?

@markulrich1966 thanks for the insight!
@Squall8882 thank you for the kind offer, I'm on EU but I'll keep being lone wolf at this moment, maybe in the future ^^

Varana

As others have said, find someone with a trial dummy (the Iron Atronach, or the Reaper). Basically all damage numbers for builds that are published these days come from the trial dummy. Not necessarily because it is more "realistic" (it's usually not) but because it provides a standard testing environment that is (largely) class-agnostic.

When used for build guides, also tends to measure *potential*, not actual performance. In ESO, skill plays a very large role in getting a good performance, and two players can get wildly different damage out of the exact same build. On the other hand, that means that esp. for high-end PvE, where builds tend to be very similar, the test dummy can measure individual skill relatively accurately - everyone is running very similar gear, so differences in performance are largely due to the player.

And lastly, builds like that are geared towards group content. Yes, they probably aren't as tanky as a solo-focused build, or don't provide as many (de)buffs by themselves. (Although, again, skilled players may survive surprisingly well even if not specifically building for it.) But that's not the point of these builds. They're builds for doing damage in a group, supported by tanks and healers (and support DDs), and with coordinated gear. Solo-ing a world boss is often possible but not the actual purpose of the build.

ghastley

A dummy parse doesn’t include using any self-heals, but unless you spend all your time dodging, you’ll need to do that with a World Boss. Wearing the Ring of the Pale Order can give you that healing from the damage you do, but it takes a slot from something else, such as a Monster helm, that could add damage. Dummy shows you the possible. Testing on a boss shows the reality, and factors in the self-heal and/or damage avoidance. Both solo tests, so won’t really show what you can do in a group, especially co-ordinated play.

SkaiFaith

Thanks to everyone for the usefull explanation!

Now I get that if I'm not planning to run in a coordinated group, DPS indicated from the Trial Dummy is not that much important to me. And I definitely can't do an apples to apples comparison between my situation as a solo player and that one. Also, from what I understand, I shouldn't be ashamed of my 16K DPS compared to "100K" when I see those videos, even if sure I'm not at a pro level as some "monsters" of pro-players.
As an example, during witches festival Terror Boss Fight, I've seen many DD players die even if way above CP 2.000 when I pugged. Instead, I could easily solo it even if around CP 1.400.
I'm not bragging, I just want to see if I got the point. Exact comparison is not realistically possible, so I should not care that much in my case specifically (as a solo player) about DPS. Right? The parse is more important just for coordinated group content, not for "self-proclaming" me good.

markulrich1966

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the usefull explanation!

Now I get that if I'm not planning to run in a coordinated group, DPS indicated from the Trial Dummy is not that much important to me. And I definitely can't do an apples to apples comparison between my situation as a solo player and that one. Also, from what I understand, I shouldn't be ashamed of my 16K DPS compared to "100K" when I see those videos, even if sure I'm not at a pro level as some "monsters" of pro-players.
As an example, during witches festival Terror Boss Fight, I've seen many DD players die even if way above CP 2.000 when I pugged. Instead, I could easily solo it even if around CP 1.400.
I'm not bragging, I just want to see if I got the point. Exact comparison is not realistically possible, so I should not care that much in my case specifically (as a solo player) about DPS. Right? The parse is more important just for coordinated group content, not for "self-proclaming" me good.

correct.
Solo-play is a completely different thing than group play.
I have soloed worldbosses more than 1000 times to farm style mats from daily rewards.
I only parse very seldom, on the precursor, that can be killed in some seconds. I use this rough check only to compare different sets or which mundus stone works best in m current setup.

Last time I tested before U35, and had typical results of 18-28k DPS.
For the bosses though I preferred one of the sets with less DPS, as it did more damage using heavy lightning staff attacks, and this playstyle is what works best for me in such fights, as I have to run and avoid red spots all the time. So I can not stand still to perform a rotation that would be required for the high-dps set to reach the full damage. Torugs pact was better than Medusa for this purpose (buffed staff attacks, while medusa buffed skills, but after U35 I switched to sergeants mail instead).
The parse was still interesting though, because for the rare cases I ran vet dungeons to get a monster helm, the high-dps set was indeed better. As here the tank taunts the boss, so I can stand still and play using my rotation.

Completely different situation, different sets, parses can help in both cases, but must be interpreted accordingly.

SkaiFaith

And... so I suppose there is no difference from an add-on calculating the exact same set-up, in the same condition, and the same person calculating the DPS with a timer. Max Health divided by seconds should generally work.

I think I got my answer, thank you!

redlink1979

You might want to take a look at this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422268/a-comprehensive-guide-on-damage-dealing-in-elder-scrolls-online

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Klingenlied

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the usefull explanation!

Now I get that if I'm not planning to run in a coordinated group, DPS indicated from the Trial Dummy is not that much important to me. And I definitely can't do an apples to apples comparison between my situation as a solo player and that one. Also, from what I understand, I shouldn't be ashamed of my 16K DPS compared to "100K" when I see those videos, even if sure I'm not at a pro level as some "monsters" of pro-players.
As an example, during witches festival Terror Boss Fight, I've seen many DD players die even if way above CP 2.000 when I pugged. Instead, I could easily solo it even if around CP 1.400.
I'm not bragging, I just want to see if I got the point. Exact comparison is not realistically possible, so I should not care that much in my case specifically (as a solo player) about DPS. Right? The parse is more important just for coordinated group content, not for "self-proclaming" me good.

If you are a solo player, you needn't care about anything as long as you manage to do what you want to do.

If you wanted to start progressing in veteran hardmode content (be it trials or dungeons) this would suddenly change. Here you would be expected to pull your weight - and this will depend on your group and the specific content you are going to tackle.

SkaiFaith

I just felt bad every time I saw insane DPS numbers in parse videos, but where I'm at now is "good enough" to me. Thought I was missing something and 'cause of that I was "doing damage wrong". It now seems it's not really the case, so I feel better ^^