Battlegrounds: the Lowest Score High Kills Guy

Caribou77

Really appreciate your post Vianca- lots of germane knowledge and good perspective. Thanks!

I do solo bgs, and while deatmatch is my favorite, I very much enjoy the variety of the other games, and the different strategies and teamwork that sometimes come together on the fly.

I’d get bored doing any mode (even death match) ad infinitum. I’m definitely in the middle of the spectrum you describe, though it seems to me that having competitve combat skills is paramount to winning any of the game modes. For example, my team often wins Domination because I’m able to solo kill an opponent guarding a flag, then defend the flag against 2 other incoming opponents long enough for another member of my team to show up and help. I really enjoy the unpredictability of it.

Anyway, I think you’ve crystallized the problem and the solution very well. Any ideas how we can make this request heard by the ZOS team and help it gain traction?

Solantris

Caribou77 wrote: »

Anyway, I think you’ve crystallized the problem and the solution very well. Any ideas how we can make this request heard by the ZOS team and help it gain traction?

If I knew that, my friend, I wouldn't be typing essays in the forums xD

Ominer

Another thing that's not been touched on in this thread but has been discussed extensively on others is the failure of the current MMR system.

In my experience MMR is heavily tied to winning games over kills / damage.
This means that the type of player who goes for the win in games while dying over and over has their MMR skyrocket and gets put in high MMR bgs over and over.

If they altered the MMR system to lean into more kdr and damage / healing numbers objective players would fight objective players more often, people in favour of death match style PvP would fight similar players.

cuddles_with_wroble

our goals are not being met, while going 50-0 and kinda funny sometimes it loses it charm after you’ve done it for so long and 1 shorting people who feel like they don’t even have armor equipped isn’t really that fun either. We want good competitive fights against people who know how to play and we got that more often in deathmatch que. That’s why we want it back. It’s not that obj modes don’t have any kind of combat it’s just that most of the fights you get into in obj modes are against players who have no fighting chance against you. You can boil it down to a random farmer with a pitch fork fighting a hardened and well trained war criminal. There no chance they do anything to you. Often in bgs I can stand in the middle of a full team not even blocking and they can’t kill me! I can just turn around and ult when I feel like it and kill all 4 of them with no effort involved. That’s not fun for me and there is no way that’s fun for you.

xylena_lazarow

Real PvP means finding the confused cp140 guy and killing him 20 times while avoiding players on your level.

Theignson

PvP involves a spectrum of activity from team oriented to self oriented. Put differently, it offers a spectrum from self-promoting/self-interest, to team promoting/team interest. Even more broadly, it offers a spectrum from selfish to altruistic. Usually actions are some combination of these goals.

This applies to BG but is most obvious in Cyrodil. Some players get the most satisfaction from rezzing/healing others even if they die-- this is more on the altruism spectrum. Some players don't care at all about their faction or the "map"-- they have their own interests. Some players care only about their pre-made or their 4 man, not their faction. Other players care only about whether their faction "wins".

All of it is fine, it's what makes the game interesting.

I tried BG at one point when I was already an experienced PvPer, so presumably was placed in a low MMR and went in and destroyed people, but I found it really boring. Conversely in Zerodil I've been destroyed by 4v1 premades in comms, that's not much fun either. I don't like chasing tower humpers, I don't like 1v1, I don't like trying to fight ball groups as a solo, and I don't like PvDoor. At this point what I enjoy most is defending or taking keeps with big battles, lots of chaos, the fights are different each time. So in other words I play "the map" . but only to get into good fights as I define it.

In other words, it is all good, to each their own.

Ziaohuamei

There is no PvP in ESO. That's the first mistake I read. I skipped the rest.

Caribou77

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Real PvP means finding the confused cp140 guy and killing him 20 times while avoiding players on your level.

This made me laugh

xDeusEJRx

I just see the kill-enthusiast as any other person to contend with. Same as the 50k health block tanks who just block all game, healbots, and speed builds.

I want to be able to enjoy the gameplay so I will focus whoever has the highest potential to end the game fast via points, whichever person that may be.

OBJnoob

Bit of a random thought not in response to anybody... But perhaps someone will indulge me...

People say the modes themselves actively discourage fighting. But you win by standing on flags. For all people trying to win the flags should be the focal point of conflict. And for people avoiding conflict but trying to win the flags are still a focal point. And for anyone trying to win by fighting the flags are a focal point.

So I guess my question is in two parts. 1) why doesn't the premade team split up and cover as many flags as possible (4,) thereby forcing enemies into their arms? Especially since in all scenarios I've seen described the dmers seem to be the ones with true talent and the runners seem to be scared-- I would think it would be fun and challenging to fight outnumbered for the DMer.

2) is it not likely that the people ignoring the objectives are the ones causing there to be no conflict at the objectives?

And a final comment, in the form of an assumption that I'm sure will be corrected for me... It seems to me like the high end premade DM enthusiasts, as well as only really wanting to open field battle, also only want to stay together as a squad? Which perhaps is why they're so easily defeated? And while I understand that they don't care or want to win by the rules they should perhaps consider that taking some time to squash the most popular strategy deployed against them would result in that strategy being used less?

Sythen88411

Whp cares about pvp. DID YOU SEE THE NEW MOUNTS IN THE CROWN STORE?!?!?!?

CameraBeardThePirate

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bit of a random thought not in response to anybody... But perhaps someone will indulge me...

People say the modes themselves actively discourage fighting. But you win by standing on flags. For all people trying to win the flags should be the focal point of conflict. And for people avoiding conflict but trying to win the flags are still a focal point. And for anyone trying to win by fighting the flags are a focal point.

So I guess my question is in two parts. 1) why doesn't the premade team split up and cover as many flags as possible (4,) thereby forcing enemies into their arms? Especially since in all scenarios I've seen described the dmers seem to be the ones with true talent and the runners seem to be scared-- I would think it would be fun and challenging to fight outnumbered for the DMer.

2) is it not likely that the people ignoring the objectives are the ones causing there to be no conflict at the objectives?

And a final comment, in the form of an assumption that I'm sure will be corrected for me... It seems to me like the high end premade DM enthusiasts, as well as only really wanting to open field battle, also only want to stay together as a squad? Which perhaps is why they're so easily defeated? And while I understand that they don't care or want to win by the rules they should perhaps consider that taking some time to squash the most popular strategy deployed against them would result in that strategy being used less?

You dont win by standing on Flags though, you win by flipping Flags. It's far more efficient to NOT guard your flag; running from flag to flag flipping it is the easiest way to win because if you get caught up in a fight defending a flag, the other team will just take the rest and by the time you've even finished that single fight, the other team has not only captured the rest of the flags but is also up 200+ points. Furthermore, there's no point in splitting up (as a deathmatch oriented player), because if you come across a block tank with a healer, you need to have at least 1 more person than they do to even capture the flag. On top of this, if there's a single player on another team running from point to point avoiding fights, and the rest of the players in the game are trying to find fights, then splitting up will do nothing as you'll just get farmed by other players looking to fight. Fighting outnumbered in no-cp BGs is difficult - you will literally never win unless you're better than every player you're fighting. Meanwhile, someone who's really dedicated to winning the objective won't even bother fighting you. I've come across plenty of players in this game that will run from point to point capping flags, they might try to fight a lone player (or just hold block healing through their damage) since a single player can't take a flag from another player, but as soon as there's more than a lone player they're back to running away.

Dem_kitkats1

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Real PvP means finding the confused cp140 guy and killing him 20 times while avoiding players on your level.

Hahahaha it's sad, but this is so true!

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bit of a random thought not in response to anybody... But perhaps someone will indulge me...

People say the modes themselves actively discourage fighting. But you win by standing on flags. For all people trying to win the flags should be the focal point of conflict. And for people avoiding conflict but trying to win the flags are still a focal point. And for anyone trying to win by fighting the flags are a focal point.

So I guess my question is in two parts. 1) why doesn't the premade team split up and cover as many flags as possible (4,) thereby forcing enemies into their arms? Especially since in all scenarios I've seen described the dmers seem to be the ones with true talent and the runners seem to be scared-- I would think it would be fun and challenging to fight outnumbered for the DMer.

2) is it not likely that the people ignoring the objectives are the ones causing there to be no conflict at the objectives?

And a final comment, in the form of an assumption that I'm sure will be corrected for me... It seems to me like the high end premade DM enthusiasts, as well as only really wanting to open field battle, also only want to stay together as a squad? Which perhaps is why they're so easily defeated? And while I understand that they don't care or want to win by the rules they should perhaps consider that taking some time to squash the most popular strategy deployed against them would result in that strategy being used less?

You dont win by standing on Flags though, you win by flipping Flags. It's far more efficient to NOT guard your flag; running from flag to flag flipping it is the easiest way to win because if you get caught up in a fight defending a flag, the other team will just take the rest and by the time you've even finished that single fight, the other team has not only captured the rest of the flags but is also up 200+ points. Furthermore, there's no point in splitting up (as a deathmatch oriented player), because if you come across a block tank with a healer, you need to have at least 1 more person than they do to even capture the flag. On top of this, if there's a single player on another team running from point to point avoiding fights, and the rest of the players in the game are trying to find fights, then splitting up will do nothing as you'll just get farmed by other players looking to fight. Fighting outnumbered in no-cp BGs is difficult - you will literally never win unless you're better than every player you're fighting. Meanwhile, someone who's really dedicated to winning the objective won't even bother fighting you. I've come across plenty of players in this game that will run from point to point capping flags, they might try to fight a lone player (or just hold block healing through their damage) since a single player can't take a flag from another player, but as soon as there's more than a lone player they're back to running away.

This 100%.

Solantris

What camera said x100

I just want to highlight what Deus said as it relates to one of my original points on queue times; many dm-style pvpers will focus those with the highest game-score potential in a bg just to keep the match going long enough to justify the time they spent queuing for it. That ends up being polarising both for objective and deathmatch-style players, as neither side is really getting what they want from the bg in these situations. That's why you'll see kitted out sweat mans focusing that one poor 160cp dude that's speedrunning objectives, or holding both relics / the chaosball in the middle to try and force a fight.

That said, there's just as much a spectrum of playstyles within deathmatcher enthusiasts just as there is in pretty much every category. As Wroble said, the system as it currently stands creates situations where matchmaking puts a farmer against a gladiator and what happens next is entirely up to the kind of players within those games: some gladiator-style mans will see that as an opportunity to group up and steamroll to farm high kill games by clubbing the relative equivalent of baby seals; others will split solo or duo to give their opponents more of a chance and look for a better fight outnumbered; still others will just get frustrated and leave because the 4 v 4 v 4 fight they're looking for where positioning and target prioritisation matters barely exists anymore; others still will force objectives to end the match quickly and try their luck on the next. Many end up quitting entirely - I'm sure all of the names I recognise in this thread are painfully aware of the number of bg players who just aren't logging in anymore.

Pvp as it currently stands is frustrating at the end game for many people on either side of the fence, which I imagine is the cause of most of the animosity between deathmatch-style and objective-oriented players. Their goals conflict, it's polarising, and it results in players from each camp walking away from matches thinking everyone else is an idiot for how they've chosen to play the game. From each perspective each is right, yet since there's no serious mmr or player choice involved in matchmaking there's not a lot any of us can do. Somebody said something earlier about playing a completely different game on the same field and it couldn't be any more true.

For me personally, well choreographed fights (even without comms) alongside players of similar skill and mindset are easily the most fun I have in this mmo; there's a level of satisfaction you get from well-executed, fast-paced, adaptive team gameplay that just isn't available anywhere else. Hitting that synergy alongside the homies is pure dopamine. Sure some of the endgame trials give a bit of the same buzz, but the scripted and thus theme-park kinda nature of those activities doesn't really appeal to me overall... plus the prep time, ugh.

I'm enjoying the discussion in this thread. It's nice to see it branching away from the typical DEATHMATCHER BAD / OBJECTIVER BAD perspectives to get down to why it really is we all feel that way in the first place

TLDR: there really are two distinct camps of bg players (with the majority somewhere in the middle). Give us the choice, mighty zos gods, so that pvp of all different aspects and variants can thrive. We're eating each other alive out here - just let some of us brawl and some of us strap on our nikes without getting in each other's way.

OBJnoob

@CameraBeardThePirate Thank you for your response. I understand your point of view a little better now. I do still disagree for the most part... Let me see if I can boil it down to some brief points.

1) I'm not suggesting you all solo stand there and guard what's already yours. If this context were true it would eliminate the need for the hypothetical to begin with... Because you'd be winning already. I'm suggesting you go to unclaimed or opposing flags.

2) If you get stuck solo fighting a block tank then that's pretty lame and I won't pretend to know what to do. From the obj side of things at least you're neutralizing but that's not the fight you want and even I see this is boring.

3) if its someone else and a healer though, while you may not win, you can survive and delay because this creates a numbers advantage for your team somewhere else. This is exactly the point of splitting up.

4) I only really play no cp PvP and I kinda disagree that its hard to fight outnumbered. You did say the magic words "unless they're worse than you," which does obviously make you correct. But I feel this is not consistent with the overall tone of "your side." Not that I wish to put words in your mouth... But the scenario being discussed is normally a bunch of untalented people who are all 0-10 but manage to win the game anyway by being cowards.

5) furthermore you even say that if you split up you may be the ones getting farmed. And while I am trying to be civil I can't help but poke the bear at this. Is it possible that the crux of this issue, from the very beginning, is that "they" aren't as good as they think they are, have no strategy, can only play one way, need constant help, and just come here to complain because they're too stubborn to adapt?

M0ntie

@Vianca well said.

cuddles_with_wroble

OBJnoob wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate Thank you for your response. I understand your point of view a little better now. I do still disagree for the most part... Let me see if I can boil it down to some brief points.

1) I'm not suggesting you all solo stand there and guard what's already yours. If this context were true it would eliminate the need for the hypothetical to begin with... Because you'd be winning already. I'm suggesting you go to unclaimed or opposing flags.

2) If you get stuck solo fighting a block tank then that's pretty lame and I won't pretend to know what to do. From the obj side of things at least you're neutralizing but that's not the fight you want and even I see this is boring.

3) if its someone else and a healer though, while you may not win, you can survive and delay because this creates a numbers advantage for your team somewhere else. This is exactly the point of splitting up.

4) I only really play no cp PvP and I kinda disagree that its hard to fight outnumbered. You did say the magic words "unless they're worse than you," which does obviously make you correct. But I feel this is not consistent with the overall tone of "your side." Not that I wish to put words in your mouth... But the scenario being discussed is normally a bunch of untalented people who are all 0-10 but manage to win the game anyway by being cowards.

5) furthermore you even say that if you split up you may be the ones getting farmed. And while I am trying to be civil I can't help but poke the bear at this. Is it possible that the crux of this issue, from the very beginning, is that "they" aren't as good as they think they are, have no strategy, can only play one way, need constant help, and just come here to complain because they're too stubborn to adapt?

i think the main thing to take away from this is while yes that could be the best way to approach the obj game modes... its boring as hell and we dont want to do that. its mind numbing to chase around rats and kill them in 1 shot, its not fun at all man.

CameraBeardThePirate

OBJnoob wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate Thank you for your response. I understand your point of view a little better now. I do still disagree for the most part... Let me see if I can boil it down to some brief points.

1) I'm not suggesting you all solo stand there and guard what's already yours. If this context were true it would eliminate the need for the hypothetical to begin with... Because you'd be winning already. I'm suggesting you go to unclaimed or opposing flags.

2) If you get stuck solo fighting a block tank then that's pretty lame and I won't pretend to know what to do. From the obj side of things at least you're neutralizing but that's not the fight you want and even I see this is boring.

3) if its someone else and a healer though, while you may not win, you can survive and delay because this creates a numbers advantage for your team somewhere else. This is exactly the point of splitting up.

4) I only really play no cp PvP and I kinda disagree that its hard to fight outnumbered. You did say the magic words "unless they're worse than you," which does obviously make you correct. But I feel this is not consistent with the overall tone of "your side." Not that I wish to put words in your mouth... But the scenario being discussed is normally a bunch of untalented people who are all 0-10 but manage to win the game anyway by being cowards.

5) furthermore you even say that if you split up you may be the ones getting farmed. And while I am trying to be civil I can't help but poke the bear at this. Is it possible that the crux of this issue, from the very beginning, is that "they" aren't as good as they think they are, have no strategy, can only play one way, need constant help, and just come here to complain because they're too stubborn to adapt?

Let me try to strip my point down a bit.

Running to unguarded flags is unfun, but it is by far the most efficient way to win. If you split up and run off solo, it's also the only way to cap flags, as even 1 lone block tank will prevent you from flipping a flag. In today's meta, it's easier than ever to survive against a single player. So if you, as a single player, want to win, you need to go to unguarded flags. If you, instead, stick together to cap flags, now you're at a disadvantage because a team that doesn't have any interest in fights will actually benefit from dying, as they can now just run to the next flag of their choosing (especially on the ayleid map).

You say that surviving and delaying is a valid strategy, but that's simply untrue. If you come across a group of players of equal size or greater than you, there's nothing beneficial about wasting time wailing on them; you're not capping a flag, and you're not helping your team cap flags or kill those standing on a flag. It's not creating a numbers advantage for your team somewhere else, because now they're down a player against the entire third team and whomever else is on the team you're preoccupied with.

OBJnoob

See that assumes your team is somehow being focused and both teams are stealing your objectives and intentionally not fighting each other. Which is true some of the time but certainly untrue in a scenario where a 4-stack of killers are ignoring flags, therefore not being on contention to begin with, and everybody else is running from them because they don't want to die.

It isn't enough to have logic behind a response. It needs to be consistent with other things being said by you and those on your side or it fails to paint a logical picture. Anybody can say true things to defend a certain standpoint... Facts can be biased and taken out of context.

The context you and others are painting about why DMers... Let's just call them obj-deniers because everybody that prefers DM isn't out there sabotaging themselves and complaining about it... The context being painted about how obj-deniers are being wronged keeps flipflopping.

Its obvious to me that these people are built for only one thing... 4v4 death match. They can't run fast, can't block, can't x, can't cap flags-- and they think anyone that can is cheesing the game. Never minding their own meta cheese as they prowl around Xv1ing stragglers and gleefully calling them trash at the same time.

I will always say that DM should have its own que. This is not in question: right is right.

But please focus on this point not the prevalence of obj builds, the fact that there are 3 teams, or how big the maps are, or where the objectives are located.

If you choose to play with zero fluidity then you will lose. And I, if only I, know whose fault that is.

Sergykid

i am one of those that u describe, most of the times i ignore objective and just fight. But before blindly judge, here's the reasons why i do it,

game modes are bland and bad.
Domination and Crazy King are no brainers and encourages non pvping.
Chaos Ball and Relic are good concepts but not enough developed, and encourages cheese tactics.

if my team barely cares for objective, or fails it obviously, i won't even bother. Doesn't matter if i lose with 200 points or 20 points, so instead of attempts i rather spend time fighting.

idc to make kills on weaker players, i go fight stronger ones, or toxic behavior players. Instead of following team on a losing game just to make kills, i split alone to look for fights. U can see my latest video on how i play

cuddles_with_wroble

OBJnoob wrote: »

See that assumes your team is somehow being focused and both teams are stealing your objectives and intentionally not fighting each other. Which is true some of the time but certainly untrue in a scenario where a 4-stack of killers are ignoring flags, therefore not being on contention to begin with, and everybody else is running from them because they don't want to die.

It isn't enough to have logic behind a response. It needs to be consistent with other things being said by you and those on your side or it fails to paint a logical picture. Anybody can say true things to defend a certain standpoint... Facts can be biased and taken out of context.

The context you and others are painting about why DMers... Let's just call them obj-deniers because everybody that prefers DM isn't out there sabotaging themselves and complaining about it... The context being painted about how obj-deniers are being wronged keeps flipflopping.

Its obvious to me that these people are built for only one thing... 4v4 death match. They can't run fast, can't block, can't x, can't cap flags-- and they think anyone that can is cheesing the game. Never minding their own meta cheese as they prowl around Xv1ing stragglers and gleefully calling them trash at the same time.

I will always say that DM should have its own que. This is not in question: right is right.

But please focus on this point not the prevalence of obj builds, the fact that there are 3 teams, or how big the maps are, or where the objectives are located.

If you choose to play with zero fluidity then you will lose. And I, if only I, know whose fault that is.

Many of us are actually some kind of 3 swift medium armor speed build, and for the people who build tankier, pretty much evey player has the ability to chase people down.

Most builds are actually built for 4v4v4 death match with support sets and cross heals meant to make your team stronger when your playing with like minded players.

There is a massive difference between 1vx builds and bg deathmatch builds.

OBJnoob

I've already hashed and rehashed ALL of those points with other people, here and elsewhere.

It is WRONG in every sense of the word to say that flag games incentivize non-fighting as a way to win. You need the flags to get points. The people trying not to fight only win because the people trying to only fight are actively avoiding the objectives... Which is where the other people are. Going to the objectives is not only how you win but it is also how you find fights ESPECIALLY when dealing with people who appear to be avoiding fights.

What you guys should do, as I've already said, is split up and cover multiple objectives so that its literally impossible for them to pull the old ring around the Rosie on you. But when I bring this up suddenly then the narrative changes and instead of scared runners these obj randoms are talented pvpers and oh god we dare not split up or we'll be the ones getting killed.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

cuddles_with_wroble

OBJnoob wrote: »

I've already hashed and rehashed ALL of those points with other people, here and elsewhere.

It is WRONG in every sense of the word to say that flag games incentivize non-fighting as a way to win. You need the flags to get points. The people trying not to fight only win because the people trying to only fight are actively avoiding the objectives... Which is where the other people are. Going to the objectives is not only how you win but it is also how you find fights ESPECIALLY when dealing with people who appear to be avoiding fights.

What you guys should do, as I've already said, is split up and cover multiple objectives so that its literally impossible for them to pull the old ring around the Rosie on you. But when I bring this up suddenly then the narrative changes and instead of scared runners these obj randoms are talented pvpers and oh god we dare not split up or we'll be the ones getting killed.

[snip]

You don’t seem to understand. We can x these player very easily in any build because for lack of better terms they are terrible players. It’s not that it’s hard to kill them or that we can’t wipe whole teams solo, we can and do. Flag games are where your seeing the 40-50 kill games happening.

I think what people are trying to convey to you is that we wanna play with our friends and we wanna have actual pvp. Killing people on a flag in 2 skills or wiping whole teams who have no chance is not real pvp. It’s not fun and it doesn’t incentivize people to learn how to pvp in a real sense when they can win the game by running to empty flags or capping empty relics no one is at and ending the bg in 4 min.

I think what you need to understand is that we wait 15 - 20 minutes in the Que every time we get into a game, and when some obj player just speed runs the relic or runs around capping empty flags and wins the game in 4 min, that’s not very fun or fair for us.

So yes we can sit on flags in domination, or run to empty flags and beat the obj players there and kill them, but you gotta know these players aren’t real pvpers. They run around with 18 -25k hp and die in 1 skill, they don’t give you a real fight even when you do engage them. Someone said earlier it was like a hardened gladiator fighting a farmer who’s never been in combat and that is exactly what it feels like.


We want the objs changed so that it incentivizes people to actually learn to pvp. We want people to get better and learn to play 4v4 death match Bcs then we get better fights and more fun and competitive bgs.

Like I and camera have said, currently you do not have to pvp at all to win flag or relic games unless people go out of their way to guard empty objs and new flags just to stop you from ending the game in 4 min. It’s 50/50 what dm players do in terms of either guarding the obj against the 1 nb or just going afk in spawn when we know the game will end in 2 min.

[edited to remove quote]

OBJnoob

Okay so you can kill these players wholesale but some of the other people on your side in this debate won't split up for fear of dying. So which am I to believe? Are you in a low MMR? Are you in a low MMR because you ignore the objectives and lose every game? LOL sorry but as I said earlier the context of this picture you're all collectively painting keeps flipflopping back and fourth. I don't think I'm failing to understand anything I'm literally hearing complaints, offering solutions based on personal experience, and being responded to with an opposite complaint.

I don't know why your opponents are awful... Because you're on a new character or because there just aren't many people... But I think you all need to broaden your definitions of "real PvP." For your own good.

As I've already said... If you can x an entire team, and so can your buddy, and so can the other two members of your team... Then there's no reason to not split up and fight outnumbered on the objectives. If solo smashing groups of lowbies is boring for you then why do you want to group smash them and for even longer?

These things and many more are inconsistent and silly. The truth is and has always been that YOU don't like objectives. Just petition for what's right... Ask for a DM only que. Stop poisoning the obj modes and making critiques about it that you wouldn't be qualified to make since you don't make honest attempts.

I'm sorry there isn't a DM que and I'm sorry there aren't team arenas. But what you crowd are doing here is tying to ruin something plenty of people like. Out of spite.

cuddles_with_wroble

Well camera and Garion are other high mmr players. The issue of bringing up mmr is that there 2 ways to get into high mmr.

Way number 1 is to win a lot of obj games

Way 2 is just to play an absurd amount of bgs or have gotten into high mmr back when ther was deathmatch queue like a lot of us did.

The problem this creates is that at high mmr you wait 15 min and then it’s really a 50/50 chance that you get people who got there by being really good at dm and just wanna fight or you get people who just wanna play the obj and don’t wanna fight.

The main issue your seeing is as you’ve said before, your throwing 2 different kinds of players into the game mode that only 1 of those kinds of players enjoys playing.

So your creating a situation where the player base is at odds right at the start of the match.

What your saying is that we should conform to playing the obj which is unfair to us Bcs we don’t enjoy that type of gameplay as it’s not competitive. But the other side of the coin is you guys having to conform to death match players which you don’t wanna do Bcs you don’t like fighting stacked sweats with try hard builds.

They could easily add the death match mode back. Their reasoning was queue times but like I said we wait 15-20 min anyway so changing that to 25-30 min isn’t something most people will complain about since matches at high mmr normally last the entire timer with no one hitting max score unless 1 of the teams is far higher skill than the other.

OBJnoob

That's what I hear. Most high MMR death matches go the distance with a relatively low score.

So wouldn't it be fair to say that both types of modes have their flaws? And both types of modes, for good reason, are considered boring by some? And some folks might think it isn't "real PvP" to battle endlessly with nobody dying?

And so aren't I right to ask you to please try and get your DM que back, or ask for arenas or some other competitive content instead of trying to make obj modes more palatable for yourself?

OBJnoob

Double post sorry...

I'm not suggesting you conform to the mode necessarily because I respect the fact you don't like it. I am however suggesting that insisting on your current course of action is souring your own experience and widening the rift between player types.

What bothers me isn't really some guy just going for kills in a chaosball what bothers me is that same guy coming here to complain about it.

cuddles_with_wroble

They do go the distance yea but that’s mostly just skill of players combined with terrible game balancing rather than the game mode itself.

Some patches people can die pretty easy and in some patches like this one, no one dies almost ever.

But yes we would love dm back, however to do that we need the help of the obj players so that ZOS will even listen. As it stands now any feedback we give falls on deaf uncaring ears. We normally get gaslit by players which leads to the posts getting shut down Bcs someone decides to be toxic.

Ignored, gaslit, posts banned. That’s the cycle of this game unfortunately.

DrNukenstein

The Americans play this game called "Golf" where the whole idea is to flex on your buddies by getting the lowest score. Non DM BG's were designed around this idea from golf, and so the best players demonstrate their immense skill at the game to their fellow enthusiasts/buddies by getting the lowest score possible which happens to be by playing for kills. If you want to be like Tiger Woods, you need to stay off the flags and chase the tail.

#5pointsperkillinobjectivemodes

cuddles_with_wroble

My point has been proven xD