Doing Random Dungeons during xp events

Heals_With_Orbs

I know this is isn't anything new, but I just wanted to express my frustration about this game design regarding random dungeons and xp events

Currently there's an explorer event on which gives double experience, including daily random dungeons. That's very nice, thank you very much.

However, how many more times must we ask to turn off DLC's as part of the daily random dungeons?

Here's why :-

I queued today, and had to wait 15 minutes, then got Depths of Malatar, and the minute we entered someone left immediately. Whatever reason that person left I can only guess, perhaps he couldn't be bothered with a long dungeon because they wanted a quick fungal grotto, or looked at the group and thought "nah" in their infinite wisdom. Perhaps they just needed a big crap.

In any case, I've seen this many many times over the years, and it gets rather tiring. Peoples time wasted constantly because of someones selfishness or whatever. The thing is we couldn't get past the first boss because one of them was level 48 or something

Why should peoples time be wasted like this because of one impatient halfwit / bad game design?????????? In the end I lost about 30 odd minutes and got nothing for it

Many people have requested this is change, so either DLCs are not part of the random daily dungeons as they are currently or they can be at least selected like a "daily veteran dungeon" or maybe there needs to be tiered experience depending on the difficulty. Why are level 48 chars allowed on these anyway?

Something needs to be done about this anyway. I know some will say "yeh it's random, you get what your given" ZZzzz....yes and unfortunately that also includes random halfwits

Memory_In_Motion

it could be worse. You could have the quest for a rN and everyone speed runs through so fast that you miss all the bosses and all the loot and breaks the quest (yes this happened to me). And then you could quit in frustration and have to wait for the penalty timer to run it's coarse (just to add insult to injury) b4 you can queue for another dungeon. Really Happened in vaults of madness.

Living_Tribunal

It does suck when people drop dungeons. I do like the xp events the most though. Thankfully I've not gotten into any dungeons where it's been an issue with one less person...but I do only run normals. I stopped picking up the quests for dungeons a long time ago. Yes you get the points for it but I rather go back with my brother and do the quests.

kargen27

The queue was created to allow people wanting to do specific content to be able to fill their group. If you remove some of the dungeons from the queue you take away the reason the queue was created. The rewards given for queuing for a random dungeon are an incentive but the main goal isn't the rewards. THe main goal is to allow groups to be filled.

Might need to think about another penalty for people dropping dungeon. Something like if you drop group you lose your chance at the rewards for that day. That would lead to more people trolling to be kicked so they don't get the penalty maybe so something would need to change there.
Whatever the solution all dungeons need to be a part of the random queue.

Memory_In_Motion

kargen27 wrote: »

The queue was created to allow people wanting to do specific content to be able to fill their group. If you remove some of the dungeons from the queue you take away the reason the queue was created. The rewards given for queuing for a random dungeon are an incentive but the main goal isn't the rewards. THe main goal is to allow groups to be filled.

Might need to think about another penalty for people dropping dungeon. Something like if you drop group you lose your chance at the rewards for that day. That would lead to more people trolling to be kicked so they don't get the penalty maybe so something would need to change there.
Whatever the solution all dungeons need to be a part of the random queue.

So you would add further injury and insult to my situation. BAH

Everest_Lionheart

At least you didn’t get ICP 4x in a row like I did last night. After doing fang lair, scale breaker, maarselok and depths of malatar on the previous 4. 20+ minutes per dungeon plus waiting time in the queue. Over 4 hours to do 8 random normal dungeons.

But it could be worse, you could have to run Falkreath Hold 54 times for the PON daggers like I did a few weeks back…

Nestor

There is a reason as to why the Experience is so high for this activity, you are there to provide fodder to the Dungeon Finder. And that means you get what you get for dungeons and pugs.

Reminds me of the Wanting Cake and Wanting to Eat it too. Can't have both.

Kessra

Over the years there was lots and lots of discussion about the random dungeon finder. People complaint because there was a lack of tanks and/or healer when people ignored for the most part that they could fulfill that roles themselves by just respeccing to that role. Then, players got that powerful that they could ultimately run dungeons solo (even vet ones) and they stormed away leaving all the others behind degrading them to background actors. New players more often than not couldn't do their quests and people in general got frustrated more and more. ZOS introduced companions that can be used in dungeons when a spot is left that can fulfill the job to some degree. Sure, they have their limits. I.e. it is hard to tell your tank-companion to position the boss at a certain spot, or move to a certain area to avoid AOE and the like. Since the hybridization area I've seen less and less complaints about fake-tanks and now players quitting a random dungeon is the new problem.

Please, realize, you've queued to run a dungeon with random players. There will always be something that will not be to your liking. ZOS could introduce mechanism after mechanism to tackle certain issues. I.e. players have only one chance to get the XP reward per day. If they messed up the first time, as they quit or got kicked out of the group, that was there one chance and they have to wait for the next one. The problem is that this system can and will be abused which then will raise further complaints and so forth. This is a loop ZOS can't win by attempting to fix it for one group as this ultimately hits others.

The best advice to give is to group up with friends or players you trust beforehand and then queue. It might take a couple of minutes to get the group together, it might involve *oh-what-a-shock* a bit of communication and chatting, but in the end it might even save you some time waiting in the queue as full groups usually get instant-invites.

redspecter23

I propose a 5 minute limit to the queue. At that point, the system will prompt you asking if you'd like to fill in all the remaining roles with companions and enter the dungeon anyway. Keep those queues popping in whatever way necessary. Nobody, absolutely nobody wants a 15 minute queue time for anything, especially content that will often last less than the wait time to get in.

They can also adjust dungeons that currently mechanically require more than one person to just not require that anymore or allow companions to fill in for that.

kargen27

redspecter23 wrote: »

I propose a 5 minute limit to the queue. At that point, the system will prompt you asking if you'd like to fill in all the remaining roles with companions and enter the dungeon anyway. Keep those queues popping in whatever way necessary. Nobody, absolutely nobody wants a 15 minute queue time for anything, especially content that will often last less than the wait time to get in.

They can also adjust dungeons that currently mechanically require more than one person to just not require that anymore or allow companions to fill in for that.

I've thought there should be a toggle so you can choose a typical group or could opt for an any combo of roles goes group. If you pick the anything goes group you might get four DPS, you might get two tanks who knows. Typical groups would take priority so that if a group was waiting on a healer the first healer to pop in would go to them. Until then though players that don't care would continue to be put together to fill groups. Because everybody in in the same queue it should still work okay. There would be no incentive to queue in a fake role so players wanting a typical group might find they have a longer wait? THey would know though that they are getting real tanks and healers.

markulrich1966

I must admit shamefully that I left a dungeon today right at the start.

On my second account wihout ESO+.
I had activated the free eso+ trial today, but forgot that this unlocks the DLC dungeons.
I run randoms currently because of the double XP, and was pretty shocked when I entered red petal bastion on my low level toon. I just quit, as I remember this was a quite annoying one even at higher level on my main account.

One of the reasons why I don't sub on my second account in fact is, that this allows me to skip DLC dungeons doing randoms.

This was on xbox NA today, on EU I will wait to activate the ESO+ trial after the explorer event is over (just want to dye costumes and move mats to the craftbag).

Paulytnz

I agree something needs to be done. I was taking advantage of this explorers event to level up an alt account. Logged in today, queued for a dungeon, got in and saw the horror! I did manage to beat it with the group after about 3 wipes at the final boss but it just took too long.

So now I have decided to just ignore this explorers event. Yes I could do other stuff but I would rather go back to this old PlayStation One game that I am having fun with atm. Imagine that, choosing a 27 year old game over ESO with an event, lol that must tell you something I think.

endgamesmug

Im more like oh geez not another base game dungeon borring 😆!

colossalvoids

endgamesmug wrote: »

Im more like oh geez not another base game dungeon borring 😆!

I'd say the same, was delighted to see cos after hitting lvl45 on an alternative server.

Anifaas

I'd like to add my 2 cents. I'm still fairly new to the game and have very little dungeon experience. So take this with a grain of salt.

Having just returned in time for this event I thought I'd try power-leveling a new character, a mageblade, through the random dungeon finder. The process was mostly enjoyable except for the end.

10-30
Everything started great. The often dungeons felt a little easy. The biggest challenge was often keeping up with the speed-runners which, admittedly, is fun after a while. The queues were fast and the dungeons went by quickly. People were very polite and helpful.

30-45
Things slowed down a bit. The mechanics gradually became less forgiving and as a DPS I often found myself looking for the tank to peel the aggro off me which typically resulted in me taking a tankier build and sticking close to the healer. (Nothing but love for ESO random healers! Total MVPs) Good experiences. Fun was had.

45-50
OMG What happened? It seems only speed-runners do these random dungeons. There seems to be no tanks, everyone is on their own. Mistakes are punished with instant death. Mechanics are not initially obvious. These dungeons were not on the same scale as the others, at all. It's like the rather flat difficulty curve flew off in to orbit as soon as I hit 45. Did not enjoy.

I believe the difficulty curve should be better balanced. Some of the DLCs belong with some of the veteran dungeons. Perhaps making a third queue and slightly lowering the bonuses for the other two queues could be the least painful approach. 8/16/24 transmutes, etc...

TL;DR
The random queue is an incredibly fun way to interact with the game as a noob. But the fun comes to an abrupt end at level 45. DLC Dungeons + Go Go Go mentality + Fake Tanks = Getting flogged with your own flayed skin.

Cheers

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Dungeons, Trials & Arenas section, as it is better suited there.

Thank you for your understanding.

Elendir2am

Part of PvE player base struggle with medium difficulty dungeons. They dont want to go hard DLC dungeons, and we probably dont want them go them either.
So, their leaving could be in favour of both sides.... If finder work properly and supply you with replacement. That is true problem here.

M0ntie

I’d suggest a greater reward from the DLC dungeons to make the longer time to complete proportional with the easier dungeons

redspecter23

Anifaas wrote: »

I'd like to add my 2 cents. I'm still fairly new to the game and have very little dungeon experience. So take this with a grain of salt.

Having just returned in time for this event I thought I'd try power-leveling a new character, a mageblade, through the random dungeon finder. The process was mostly enjoyable except for the end.

10-30
Everything started great. The often dungeons felt a little easy. The biggest challenge was often keeping up with the speed-runners which, admittedly, is fun after a while. The queues were fast and the dungeons went by quickly. People were very polite and helpful.

30-45
Things slowed down a bit. The mechanics gradually became less forgiving and as a DPS I often found myself looking for the tank to peel the aggro off me which typically resulted in me taking a tankier build and sticking close to the healer. (Nothing but love for ESO random healers! Total MVPs) Good experiences. Fun was had.

45-50
OMG What happened? It seems only speed-runners do these random dungeons. There seems to be no tanks, everyone is on their own. Mistakes are punished with instant death. Mechanics are not initially obvious. These dungeons were not on the same scale as the others, at all. It's like the rather flat difficulty curve flew off in to orbit as soon as I hit 45. Did not enjoy.

I believe the difficulty curve should be better balanced. Some of the DLCs belong with some of the veteran dungeons. Perhaps making a third queue and slightly lowering the bonuses for the other two queues could be the least painful approach. 8/16/24 transmutes, etc...

TL;DR
The random queue is an incredibly fun way to interact with the game as a noob. But the fun comes to an abrupt end at level 45. DLC Dungeons + Go Go Go mentality + Fake Tanks = Getting flogged with your own flayed skin.

Cheers

This is some amazing feedback for ZOS from a new player perspective. I'm a huge supporter of leaving the DLC dungeons out of the normal random queue until cp160. As it stands now, I typically just stop dungeon queueing when I hit level 45 on a new toon and don't pick it up again until level 50 and cp kicks in. There is a dead zone in this level range where players get slammed with a huge difficulty increase right at the same time they are the least powerful they likely will ever be, especially on new accounts.

M0ntie

Actually the above point is a very good one.
I'm generally NOT in favour of leaving the DLC dungeons out of Random Normals. BUT I do think there is a case for if your account is under CP160 and your character is over level 45 then the DLC dungeons could be left out of random normals.

For players with experience, even being on a level 45-50 character NORMAL DLC dungeons are not that hard. You've probably got some crafted gear sets. If you have some idea of the mechanics, or even general game mechanics, you're fine. ie. enemies with red lines coming out of them need to be interupted, don't stand in AOEs, etc. But players hitting level 45 for the first time hardly know how to play the game so it makes sense to not put them into DLC dungeons.

Necrotech_Master

if dlc dungeons were removed from the random queue, i would never use it

1. i still need gear from a host of DLC dungeons, if i do a random normal, im already at like a 40-50% chance i wont even get a dungeon i need gear from so it feels like a wasted run to me
2. im almost cp 2250 i dont need the xp
3. im already near constantly capped out on transmutes, i dont need the transmutes that bad

if anything im the one who queues specifically for dungeons i need gear from and then just do those, or even straight up solo the dungeons to avoid the "go-go-go" crowd, i hate the rushers

MidniteOwl1913

Anifaas wrote: »

I'd like to add my 2 cents. I'm still fairly new to the game and have very little dungeon experience. So take this with a grain of salt.

Having just returned in time for this event I thought I'd try power-leveling a new character, a mageblade, through the random dungeon finder. The process was mostly enjoyable except for the end.

10-30
Everything started great. The often dungeons felt a little easy. The biggest challenge was often keeping up with the speed-runners which, admittedly, is fun after a while. The queues were fast and the dungeons went by quickly. People were very polite and helpful.

30-45
Things slowed down a bit. The mechanics gradually became less forgiving and as a DPS I often found myself looking for the tank to peel the aggro off me which typically resulted in me taking a tankier build and sticking close to the healer. (Nothing but love for ESO random healers! Total MVPs) Good experiences. Fun was had.

45-50
OMG What happened? It seems only speed-runners do these random dungeons. There seems to be no tanks, everyone is on their own. Mistakes are punished with instant death. Mechanics are not initially obvious. These dungeons were not on the same scale as the others, at all. It's like the rather flat difficulty curve flew off in to orbit as soon as I hit 45. Did not enjoy.

I believe the difficulty curve should be better balanced. Some of the DLCs belong with some of the veteran dungeons. Perhaps making a third queue and slightly lowering the bonuses for the other two queues could be the least painful approach. 8/16/24 transmutes, etc...

TL;DR
The random queue is an incredibly fun way to interact with the game as a noob. But the fun comes to an abrupt end at level 45. DLC Dungeons + Go Go Go mentality + Fake Tanks = Getting flogged with your own flayed skin.

Cheers

I had a very similar experience while leveling my magsorc. The last couple of levels were brutal. I ended up with speed runners in Falkcreek Hold. I couldn't keep up and kept dying. While I'm not a fan of speedy, I usually just go along, but it's really hard to run through all of the mini-bosses and adds in Falkcreek with a level 47 toon.

At level 49 I ended up in Earthen Root and that was much more difficult with a not-fully geared toon. It's frustrating to have all the gear just waiting but not be able to use it... I know I didn't carry my weight on the last boss and I felt bad. Maybe I should have just bailed when I saw which dungeon it was.

Do people make gear for every few levels? I usually don't because leveling goes by so fast it just seems like a waste of time and resources...

El_Borracho

This is nowhere near a new phenomenon. These are the risks you take with daily randoms and dungeon finder. If you don't want to deal with it, don't use dungeon finder.

However, to those that want to further penalize players for leaving a group, try tanking something like March of Sacrifices with a group of noodle-waving DDs who don't want to learn mechanics. Maybe you should consider the possibility that YOU are the reason the tank or other DDs are bailing. It only takes a few of those experiences to pop into a place like Earthen Root or Maarselok, see a Level 48 DD, and run away as fast as possible. Even as a DD or tank.

Players should not be punished for refusing to carry others through dungeons for XP or transmutes.

Necrotech_Master

El_Borracho wrote: »

This is nowhere near a new phenomenon. These are the risks you take with daily randoms and dungeon finder. If you don't want to deal with it, don't use dungeon finder.

However, to those that want to further penalize players for leaving a group, try tanking something like March of Sacrifices with a group of noodle-waving DDs who don't want to learn mechanics. Maybe you should consider the possibility that YOU are the reason the tank or other DDs are bailing. It only takes a few of those experiences to pop into a place like Earthen Root or Maarselok, see a Level 48 DD, and run away as fast as possible. Even as a DD or tank.

Players should not be punished for refusing to carry others through dungeons for XP or transmutes.

i kind of see it as a challenge in those cases, i would rather be in a group with new players who dont know what they are doing than "the flash" trying to get through the dungeon with reckless abandon lol

(and ive done a vet darkshade caverns 1 with a 8k dps tank who was doing 75% of the group dps lol, i would still rather do that than be in a group with a speedster)

El_Borracho

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

This is nowhere near a new phenomenon. These are the risks you take with daily randoms and dungeon finder. If you don't want to deal with it, don't use dungeon finder.

However, to those that want to further penalize players for leaving a group, try tanking something like March of Sacrifices with a group of noodle-waving DDs who don't want to learn mechanics. Maybe you should consider the possibility that YOU are the reason the tank or other DDs are bailing. It only takes a few of those experiences to pop into a place like Earthen Root or Maarselok, see a Level 48 DD, and run away as fast as possible. Even as a DD or tank.

Players should not be punished for refusing to carry others through dungeons for XP or transmutes.

i kind of see it as a challenge in those cases, i would rather be in a group with new players who dont know what they are doing than "the flash" trying to get through the dungeon with reckless abandon lol

(and ive done a vet darkshade caverns 1 with a 8k dps tank who was doing 75% of the group dps lol, i would still rather do that than be in a group with a speedster)

There is a huge difference between carrying players and playing with new or inexperienced players. The latter want to learn and are a lot of fun to play with because of it. But the former you can almost instantly tell will be a miserable experience. I recall a run in normal WGT I tanked that the group could not get past the ogrim outside the tower. Needless to say, I bailed.

But that is part of dungeon finder. I wasn't salty about it. I could have been as the players' level clearly indicated that they did not use dungeon finder to get into WGT.

I just have a problem with this position that queueing for a random is some sort of contract that forces players to drag a group through content, even when that group is doing everything they can to blow up the run. "Oh, you want to loot every box and sightsee, while ignoring other player's requests to interrupt, bash, block, etc.? Well, I'm here to begrudgingly spend the next 45 minutes in Tempest Island." No thank you.

Necrotech_Master

El_Borracho wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

This is nowhere near a new phenomenon. These are the risks you take with daily randoms and dungeon finder. If you don't want to deal with it, don't use dungeon finder.

However, to those that want to further penalize players for leaving a group, try tanking something like March of Sacrifices with a group of noodle-waving DDs who don't want to learn mechanics. Maybe you should consider the possibility that YOU are the reason the tank or other DDs are bailing. It only takes a few of those experiences to pop into a place like Earthen Root or Maarselok, see a Level 48 DD, and run away as fast as possible. Even as a DD or tank.

Players should not be punished for refusing to carry others through dungeons for XP or transmutes.

i kind of see it as a challenge in those cases, i would rather be in a group with new players who dont know what they are doing than "the flash" trying to get through the dungeon with reckless abandon lol

(and ive done a vet darkshade caverns 1 with a 8k dps tank who was doing 75% of the group dps lol, i would still rather do that than be in a group with a speedster)

There is a huge difference between carrying players and playing with new or inexperienced players. The latter want to learn and are a lot of fun to play with because of it. But the former you can almost instantly tell will be a miserable experience. I recall a run in normal WGT I tanked that the group could not get past the ogrim outside the tower. Needless to say, I bailed.

But that is part of dungeon finder. I wasn't salty about it. I could have been as the players' level clearly indicated that they did not use dungeon finder to get into WGT.

I just have a problem with this position that queueing for a random is some sort of contract that forces players to drag a group through content, even when that group is doing everything they can to blow up the run. "Oh, you want to loot every box and sightsee, while ignoring other player's requests to interrupt, bash, block, etc.? Well, I'm here to begrudgingly spend the next 45 minutes in Tempest Island." No thank you.

i tend to solo a lot of dungeons, and even do so on my 8k dps tank with a companion when its a brand new dungeon so i can learn mechanics

quite often this already takes me an 40-60 min to get through (partially low dmg, and i do also explore the dungeon), so if im running in a group its rare for me to take over 30 min even carrying people, its still dps that wouldnt have been there otherwise, if they die frequently in fights, and i cant always take the time to rez, i just wont and finish the fight, its a little easier running on my necro tank cause of the rez ult so i can easily pick up people if needed

anything was better than spending 8 hours trying to finish dragonstar arena with a semi pug group in 2014-2015 when even normal was a pretty tough challenge lol

El_Borracho

anything was better than spending 8 hours trying to finish dragonstar arena with a semi pug group in 2014-2015 when even normal was a pretty tough challenge lol

LOL. You're a saint. I think the most recent long term fail was 3 hours with a guild group helping someone get HRC on hard mode. But I believe alcohol was a major culprit there,

AvalonRanger

ZOS must put the DLC disable switch at the random run mode.
(Or, DLC only switch)

Doing dlc dungeon mission with brain dead event farmer(mostly fake role or
quick dead brainless high CP player) is extremely stressful.

MidniteOwl1913

It's a random, so you get what you get. Sometimes it's experienced players who don't really need a healer, sometimes it's new players who really really need a healer even for some of the base game dungeons. Mostly I don't mind. Healing is a support role and that's what I do, however, sometimes players are not really for DLC content. After three wipes on the same boss, I leave. Most of the time it's a combination of low DPS and not knowing the mechanics. I don't type fast enough to point out problems with the mechanics, unfortunately, and also unfortunately sometimes I don't remember exactly what the wrinkle is in a particular mechanic.

So I mostly run healers, but when I use my DPS character I prefer the fake healer or tank to bail rather than just stumble through content that needs a real tank or healer. Oh and mostly it's the tank or healer that leaves immediately after loading in my experience. I'm only guessing that it's a fake who bails, but it makes sense to me.

pelle412

No keep it as-is. DLC ones are the only fun dungeons. I pug every day and I've not experienced these horror stories being posted about. I look for them but they never materialize. Random dungeons is just one way to make XP. Do random BGs, blackrose prison runs, grind Skyreach or similar. If you need crystals, run Cyrodiil.