Warden overpowered

AdamLAD

Definitely not overpowered. In the spot they should be. I think Dk is too, I think coag needs tuning down by a bit and corrosive however. Templars are in a good spot, last patch they were insane. Nightblades stamina and magicka are decent. Granted stamina is better by some margin obviously. Stam sorcs are good, they were ridiculous last patch. Necromancer is in a very healthy spot. Only one that is in the dirt is magicka sorcerer. Whilst Im doing very well on mine. I can still feel the effects of other classes being miles ahead in terms of raw power. Everything else can just stack weapon or magicka damage and have offence and defence at the same time. Whilst having an huge array of sets to choose from and armour combinations. Magicka Sorcerer is pigeon hold into a very narrow play style of using light armour (which is already weak compared to its counterparts) and using magicka. Which is weaker yet again than raw wep or spell damage. In all honesty I think to keep the class identity the stacking of magicka should remain however should scale way way higher for shields. Sheilds needs to cost SIGNIFICANTLY less and I think passives need to be buffed. Frags needs its stun back and curse should apply minor breach or major. Both morphs. Force Shock and Force pulse should be undodgeable. I could give a huge list of ways to fix the class without it being ridiculous. Unfortunately I don't think we are gonna get anything significant.

Klingenlied

Drauz wrote: »

So instead of nerfing warden zos buffed them to oblivion. not good, too much wardens in game now

What is that?

In terms of PvE, Warden is a good healer, a decent tank and trash tier dps.

In terms of PvP, a lot of power for Warden now is allocated in 2 skills who give you heal, stun, major and minor breach along with burst damage. Combine that with a overpowered stamina 5 second heal and you got yourself a rather tanky brawler class that can kill off unexperienced players with ease. Especially since everyone was used to use walk right over those guys with a Bear or a Netch by their side.

For high skill PvP however, Warden still is relatively predictable and his burst not too hard to avoid. If you would want to join in some serious discussion on what and how / why something is wrong with a class, try to go into detail. But from my perspective, Warden now is good in PvP. Not at the top. But most of the time, you would want to have one in your party.

gamma71

I main a mag dk and I find warden fights sooooo long and boring I usually try to get a way so I don't spend 2 hours chasing one around a rock.

MEBengalsFan2001

Warden are powerful in pvp now because they got a bump in penetration, they can double debuff with one ranged skill, and a healing skill that was based on health now goes by offensive stats and said skill can stun on first hit resulting in stun debuff and your death if the warden has an ultimate ready. This reminds me of the bubbleplar that basically slowed you down and killed with crescent sweep. Warden simply got swapped for Templar.

SpiderCultist

their self-healing along with other buffs make them very hard to kill and still deliver quite a lot of damage

Kikazaru

I've seen some 40k+ health warden duos with moderately good damage lately which can be extremely obnoxious to deal with.

Their damage may not be over the moon, however, if they refuse to die. Then they won't die.... unless they get utterly zerged down.

MEBengalsFan2001

When I played PVP for every 3 wardens I see, I see another class. Warden's have taken over PVP zone and most are DPS.

All classes would get closer to balancing if the devs added role buff/debuffs to Battle Spirit. Right now players can walk around with high resistance, high recovery, high health and high damage. We need roles to matter to make PVP more balanced. Other games did this by placing hard caps on stats based on role so this way you couldn't have a high health, high resistance, and high recovery as a damage dealer.

Oakenaxe

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen some 40k+ health warden duos with moderately good damage lately which can be extremely obnoxious to deal with.

Their damage may not be over the moon, however, if they refuse to die. Then they won't die.... unless they get utterly zerged down.

Yeah, Wardens are pretty boring to fight atm, if I see the fight is going that way I just ignore and leave lol

taugrim

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen some 40k+ health warden duos with moderately good damage lately which can be extremely obnoxious to deal with.

This is [snip]

You can't get to that high Health without severely compromising your stats in other areas.

Back in the day when proc sets had static values, sure, you could run around with lots of Health because it didn't affect proc set damage.

Wardens can be a pain to kill though, with their ability to heal and kite.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Kikazaru

taugrim wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen some 40k+ health warden duos with moderately good damage lately which can be extremely obnoxious to deal with.

This is [snip]

You can't get to that high Health without severely compromising your stats in other areas.

Back in the day when proc sets had static values, sure, you could run around with lots of Health because it didn't affect proc set damage.

Wardens can be a pain to kill though, with their ability to heal and kite.

I'm just going with what I have witnessed, a couple were at the 40k-ish mark... yea.. crazy... ik... most 32k - 38k territory... true.... these guys at the 40k mark may of neglected on the other aspects of their build... but I've seen players play dumb and get killed by them anyways lol.

All annoying to fight regardless.

[edited to remove quote]

FrankonPC

taugrim wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen some 40k+ health warden duos with moderately good damage lately which can be extremely obnoxious to deal with.

This is [snip]

You can't get to that high Health without severely compromising your stats in other areas.

Back in the day when proc sets had static values, sure, you could run around with lots of Health because it didn't affect proc set damage.

Wardens can be a pain to kill though, with their ability to heal and kite.

[edited for profanity bypass]

I still have a 20k tooltip dawnbreaker with a 19k(second) fissure on my warden with 40k health, and that's before balorgh.

it's not so much about the offensive kit though as it is once again health based healing providing builds that have everything.

Rhaegar75

High health wardens are a pain and definitely overturned - just take a look at how many more wardens have sprouted up in the in the high MMR BGs!!!

The usual carbon copies that indicate a class is OP - out magplars in wardens

Janni

FrankonPC wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen some 40k+ health warden duos with moderately good damage lately which can be extremely obnoxious to deal with.

This is [snip]

You can't get to that high Health without severely compromising your stats in other areas.

Back in the day when proc sets had static values, sure, you could run around with lots of Health because it didn't affect proc set damage.

Wardens can be a pain to kill though, with their ability to heal and kite.

[edited for profanity bypass]

I still have a 20k tooltip dawnbreaker with a 19k(second) fissure on my warden with 40k health, and that's before balorgh.

it's not so much about the offensive kit though as it is once again health based healing providing builds that have everything.

Please please tell me what you are using! lol Cause my tooltips barely get that high AFTER balorg and a 2-hand weapon enchant and clever alchemist going off and I barely get 29k hp!

Meurto

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Wardens have been a bottom tier class for almost a year until this patch, finally they are in a good spot so people are bringing their wardens out because they haven’t been usable as a damage build for so long. They are definitely not overpowered, people just like to diversify their playstyle to keep the game fresh, that’s why there’s so many in PvP right now.

Anytime a post starts with this you an pretty much dismiss everything to follow. Duration on top or bottom is never justification (ZOS, are you paying attention here?).

Meurto

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Nah they aren't overpower I think they are just too good at surviving. Number 1 tower enjoyer/lover/censored word class right now, but not the kind that will wipe a whole group.

You have completely contradicted your perspective in a single sentence. Which is it? Not overpowered or too good at surviving? Both are mutually exclusive.

TechMaybeHic

I like where warden, NB, and DK are at, save for some slight changes but I'd rather then not do, TBH. Feel like Necro needs something to match beyond very niche builds, and templar and sorc, IMO; have just been made so unfun.

I fully support nerfing some sets over classes.

I don't know exactly what to do with all of it, but that's just my general feel.

MEBengalsFan2001

taugrim wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

It will be nice to see people shelve their dks for awhile

Won't happen so long as DK is a top-2 class.

The self-healing is so imbalanced.

Warden healing is just as bad if not worst. DK healing requires them to be below 33% heal for them to get maximum healing. When at that point a good execution from one or two players can take out a DK.

Warden Arctic Blast HoT and Vigor HoT make them more annoying than a DK because they are constantly getting health back at a good tick and if the Warden uses the other morph of Arctic Blast they only provide a HoT to themselves but there allies near them. Going against 3 wardens running the other morph of Arctic Blast becomes a pain because they are feeding off each other heals.

Warden are a bit over tuned like DK for the survivability and CC effects.

Araneae6537

Warden overpowered? They had been bottom tier PvP, at least magicka warden. Maybe this one ability needs adjustment, but in general, I don’t think warden is a bursty class, the class lacks an execute, and many of the abilities are area/directional and even have a delay, making them less useful in dynamic PvP fights.

I agree about sorc and templar nerfs needing reversion. I’m glad that DK was buffed. Ideally, every class should be fun to play and have unique abilities/strengths.

PhoenixGrey

Ice warden is the only spec which can go toe to toe with nb

Warden needs buffs not nerfs

React

Honestly, I don't think warden is broken by any means. There are certain parts of their toolkit that need improvements, even. There are only a few things I'd suggest be nerfed.

As far as nerfs go, the only things I'd suggest nerfing are;

• Maturation - This passive should be changed to provide a flat health bonus, such as 1250 health, rather than 10% HP. Max health is a huge problem right now in PVP, and this passive probably provides more health from one single source than any other source in the game.
• Slab/crystalized shield - The secondary effects of both of these skills are fine, but the value of the projectile absorption shield itself needs to be lowered. It is currently designed in a way that makes each of the 3 shields absorb more damage than any ranged attack in the entire game could possibly deal. With the cost refund that they proc upon absorption, this skill effectively makes a warden unkillable by any ranged spec in the game.
• Netch - The purge from this ability procs once every 5 seconds while it is active. However, if you spam it, you can proc both the heal passive from that skill line and the purge from netch once per cast. The purge should only be possible once per 5 seconds. Just add a 5s cooldown to the purge so that it can still be spammed as an additional HOT, but not as a cleanse.
• Polar Wind - This heal is absurdly broken now. With how easily achievable 40k HP is on a "damage" oriented build now, we are often seeing players running full damage with 40kp hp and hitting themselves and others for 15K+ polars with a 3k hot attached to it. I'm not sure what the best way to go about adjusting this is, but it absolutely needs to be nerfed from it's current version. This is probably the strongest heal in the game right now.

PhoenixGrey

React wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think warden is broken by any means. There are certain parts of their toolkit that need improvements, even. There are only a few things I'd suggest be nerfed.

As far as nerfs go, the only things I'd suggest nerfing are;

• Maturation - This passive should be changed to provide a flat health bonus, such as 1250 health, rather than 10% HP. Max health is a huge problem right now in PVP, and this passive probably provides more health from one single source than any other source in the game.
• Slab/crystalized shield - The secondary effects of both of these skills are fine, but the value of the projectile absorption shield itself needs to be lowered. It is currently designed in a way that makes each of the 3 shields absorb more damage than any ranged attack in the entire game could possibly deal. With the cost refund that they proc upon absorption, this skill effectively makes a warden unkillable by any ranged spec in the game.
• Netch - The purge from this ability procs once every 5 seconds while it is active. However, if you spam it, you can proc both the heal passive from that skill line and the purge from netch once per cast. The purge should only be possible once per 5 seconds. Just add a 5s cooldown to the purge so that it can still be spammed as an additional HOT, but not as a cleanse.
• Polar Wind - This heal is absurdly broken now. With how easily achievable 40k HP is on a "damage" oriented build now, we are often seeing players running full damage with 40kp hp and hitting themselves and others for 15K+ polars with a 3k hot attached to it. I'm not sure what the best way to go about adjusting this is, but it absolutely needs to be nerfed from it's current version. This is probably the strongest heal in the game right now.

I wouldn’t nerf the shield with the current state of spectral bow. It will be a nb buff and we have enough of that already.

Not fun getting xv1’d with a 20k spectral bow. Shield is the only thing on warden which prevents this

Sergykid

yes it's overloaded but only in some parts, other parts could actually use a buff, problem is that u can just play it with all the overloaded parts

ESO_Nightingale

React wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think warden is broken by any means. There are certain parts of their toolkit that need improvements, even. There are only a few things I'd suggest be nerfed.

As far as nerfs go, the only things I'd suggest nerfing are;

• Maturation - This passive should be changed to provide a flat health bonus, such as 1250 health, rather than 10% HP. Max health is a huge problem right now in PVP, and this passive probably provides more health from one single source than any other source in the game.
• Slab/crystalized shield - The secondary effects of both of these skills are fine, but the value of the projectile absorption shield itself needs to be lowered. It is currently designed in a way that makes each of the 3 shields absorb more damage than any ranged attack in the entire game could possibly deal. With the cost refund that they proc upon absorption, this skill effectively makes a warden unkillable by any ranged spec in the game.
• Netch - The purge from this ability procs once every 5 seconds while it is active. However, if you spam it, you can proc both the heal passive from that skill line and the purge from netch once per cast. The purge should only be possible once per 5 seconds. Just add a 5s cooldown to the purge so that it can still be spammed as an additional HOT, but not as a cleanse.
• Polar Wind - This heal is absurdly broken now. With how easily achievable 40k HP is on a "damage" oriented build now, we are often seeing players running full damage with 40kp hp and hitting themselves and others for 15K+ polars with a 3k hot attached to it. I'm not sure what the best way to go about adjusting this is, but it absolutely needs to be nerfed from it's current version. This is probably the strongest heal in the game right now.

Honestly netch spamming to purge negitive effects is fine, that's a lot of gcds they're giving up to clear negitive effects and it's not possible to do it mid-fight. Also as a warden player I'd argue that our mag/stam scaling self burst heal shouldn't even be on arctic blast. We literally have an entire healing line dedicated to it that doesn't even do the job properly. Blast could lose it to gain a cost reduction or some dot damage increase.

React

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

React wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think warden is broken by any means. There are certain parts of their toolkit that need improvements, even. There are only a few things I'd suggest be nerfed.

As far as nerfs go, the only things I'd suggest nerfing are;

• Maturation - This passive should be changed to provide a flat health bonus, such as 1250 health, rather than 10% HP. Max health is a huge problem right now in PVP, and this passive probably provides more health from one single source than any other source in the game.
• Slab/crystalized shield - The secondary effects of both of these skills are fine, but the value of the projectile absorption shield itself needs to be lowered. It is currently designed in a way that makes each of the 3 shields absorb more damage than any ranged attack in the entire game could possibly deal. With the cost refund that they proc upon absorption, this skill effectively makes a warden unkillable by any ranged spec in the game.
• Netch - The purge from this ability procs once every 5 seconds while it is active. However, if you spam it, you can proc both the heal passive from that skill line and the purge from netch once per cast. The purge should only be possible once per 5 seconds. Just add a 5s cooldown to the purge so that it can still be spammed as an additional HOT, but not as a cleanse.
• Polar Wind - This heal is absurdly broken now. With how easily achievable 40k HP is on a "damage" oriented build now, we are often seeing players running full damage with 40kp hp and hitting themselves and others for 15K+ polars with a 3k hot attached to it. I'm not sure what the best way to go about adjusting this is, but it absolutely needs to be nerfed from it's current version. This is probably the strongest heal in the game right now.

Honestly netch spamming to purge negitive effects is fine, that's a lot of gcds they're giving up to clear negitive effects and it's not possible to do it mid-fight. Also as a warden player I'd argue that our mag/stam scaling self burst heal shouldn't even be on arctic blast. We literally have an entire healing line dedicated to it that doesn't even do the job properly. Blast could lose it to gain a cost reduction or some dot damage increase.

That's fair. My main issue with the netch purge is that these 40k+ hp wardens can sit there spamming it at 0 resource cost while laughing at your complete inability to deal damage to them, especially in 1v1 scenarios.

I agree about arctic and polar. It was always bizarre that they chose to make that into a burst heal and rework it multiple times, rather than buff the spore heals that are already burst heals which nobody uses. I agree that changing these skills to be stuns/dots/whatever while removing their burst heals, and instead shifting that burst healing to the spores would be a good change.

OBJnoob

I agree with React that HP stacking wardens need a nerf. Polar Wind could probably be toned down a little. I don't like the suggested change to the Maturation passive. I agree with it in spirit but not in practice. Right now the passive buff they get is a named one: Minor Toughness. I'm not sure how many ways to get this buff there are... But there is at least one gear set that gives it (warrior poet I think?) And honestly we just want to make sure they don't turn around and stack minor Toughness with the new flat value for even MORE HP than before the nerf.

merpins

Personally, I think ZoS should balance pve and pvp separately, and figure out what to do with skills in each instance. There are dead skills in PVP that are only good in PVE, and vice verse, and it's hard to figure out good balance for any class with such a system in place. Either PVE is hurting or PVP is hurting, and balance can't really be achieved without a clear separation.

ESO_Nightingale

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree with React that HP stacking wardens need a nerf. Polar Wind could probably be toned down a little. I don't like the suggested change to the Maturation passive. I agree with it in spirit but not in practice. Right now the passive buff they get is a named one: Minor Toughness. I'm not sure how many ways to get this buff there are... But there is at least one gear set that gives it (warrior poet I think?) And honestly we just want to make sure they don't turn around and stack minor Toughness with the new flat value for even MORE HP than before the nerf.

polar wind is the main issue here, arctic blast is a very bloated skill but i don't think it's a large issue, i'd rather see it's heal taken off of it for cleanliness reasons within the class's trees, but i understand that it's probably fine as it currently is. people's issues seem to stem from polar being an insanely strong hp based burst heal with a good heal over time attached to it. high hp builds are an issue made worse by hp scaling heals.

OBJnoob

@ESO_Nightingale oh I agree I've been in these threads from time to time trying to convey that message. I'm glad some other people are saying it now too, because the focus had been on Arctic previously.

ESO_Nightingale

OBJnoob wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale oh I agree I've been in these threads from time to time trying to convey that message. I'm glad some other people are saying it now too, because the focus had been on Arctic previously.

a lot of people seem to see blast/polar as the same skill when they're now very different from one another so it can be important to ask people to clarify if they mean blast or polar when they're talking about healing being too strong.

OBJnoob

Agreed in general but specifically in this case that wasn't the problem. They made it clear which morph they meant because their problem was the stun. I feel like the warden combo is still pretty wonky and the stun is necessary. And I warned them that if you take the stun off Arctic then everybody will run Polar and they'll be left with an even bigger problem.