Clear Rules on Tea Bagging

Wolfpaw

DaisyRay wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Teabagging is joking about forcing sex on a stranger, plain and simple. It's not done with the intention to make the other person laugh. I know people who don't PvP specifically because it's so violative. It's unwelcoming and bad manners, and the game would have a stronger community if people were less sensitive about being asked not to teabag.

It might be funny between friends, but it's totally different among strangers. Like many raunchy jokes are. I usually settle for an emote like /sweep or /shovel.

I hate when I see this honestly. Teabagging is nothing of the sort, you all sound ridiculous claiming this is a form of sa.

1.) It's a game.
2.) No one in rl teabags corps (I hope?)

It's okay to not like teabaggers, but don't compare it to sa. That's just insulting to sa victims.

This, also lost count how many female friends I've seen drop the Clam Slam...and call it out when they do on a dead enemy lol.

not just a guy thing, just a fun mini game of tag

Elo106

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
What are the rules regarding tea bagging?

I think the last update about it was:
"Teabagging or spamming emotes is fine, though if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop."

Also does the Teabaggee have to report this or can anyone report it?
If me and my friends are fine with teabagging each other can someone else take a screenshot of it and report us?

You already said the rule?

I know some players that will do a single air teabag not over the body but to the side, usually saved for friends, etc...as a hello, respect ya.

I ask for them to specify cause people are being warned/banned without being asked to stop, when they ask support for proof they get a copy paste answer of "we reviewed it and its true" while increasing the punishment

Wolfpaw

Elo106 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
What are the rules regarding tea bagging?

I think the last update about it was:
"Teabagging or spamming emotes is fine, though if someone asks you to please stop, you should stop."

Also does the Teabaggee have to report this or can anyone report it?
If me and my friends are fine with teabagging each other can someone else take a screenshot of it and report us?

You already said the rule?

I know some players that will do a single air teabag not over the body but to the side, usually saved for friends, etc...as a hello, respect ya.

I ask for them to specify cause people are being warned/banned without being asked to stop, when they ask support for proof they get a copy paste answer of "we reviewed it and its true" while increasing the punishment

If those players are telling the truth, agree we need specifics.

Slow pushups emote on a dead players face count lol?

Offline or a do not disturb prevent players from whispering you? Have never used, but prevents someone telling you to stop. This alone makes this "rule" silly.

@ZOS_Kevin is this rule actually enforceable, or a waste of resources and time better spent towards real tos violations in chat (racism, harassment, etc..)?

Players shouldn't be banned at all for using character movement in any way unless it's an exploit or cheat with intent. Having such a grey area leaves too much discretion to employees handing out partial & permanent account lock-outs.

DaisyRay

Wolfpaw wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Teabagging is joking about forcing sex on a stranger, plain and simple. It's not done with the intention to make the other person laugh. I know people who don't PvP specifically because it's so violative. It's unwelcoming and bad manners, and the game would have a stronger community if people were less sensitive about being asked not to teabag.

It might be funny between friends, but it's totally different among strangers. Like many raunchy jokes are. I usually settle for an emote like /sweep or /shovel.

I hate when I see this honestly. Teabagging is nothing of the sort, you all sound ridiculous claiming this is a form of sa.

1.) It's a game.
2.) No one in rl teabags corps (I hope?)

It's okay to not like teabaggers, but don't compare it to sa. That's just insulting to sa victims.

This, also lost count how many female friends I've seen drop the Clam Slam...and call it out when they do on a dead enemy lol.

not just a guy thing, just a fun mini game of tag

Exactly! Lol I never call mine a clam slam though because it just sounds so aggressive.

acastanza_ESO

Teabagging, and similarly the pushup emote (this is the only affected emote afaik) have been previously stated by ZOS to constitute harassment and a TOS violation if continuing to do so after being asked to stop (if you've been ignored by this person, or they're playing offline, the requirement is that you send them an in-game mail asking them to stop). This isn't ambiguous. Just don't do it.

The standard that ZOS has set requires a previous warning to stop, and submission of video evidence of the harassment. If anything, requiring video evidence puts too much of the burden on the person being harassed. There should be sufficient game logging information recorded by ZOS to get this completely reasonable enforcement without needing the person being harassed to go to special effort that they may or may not even be capable of doing (not all systems can easily record game footage).

These actions are harassment. Stop doing them.

Amottica

Zenimax stated what they had to say. The big take away was that if someone asked you to stop, it is a good idea to stop.

Since they have to evaluate each case on its own is not possible to create specific criteria. Case in point, they made it clear that if someone has a history of pushing the limits, such as they have been warned before i.e., Zenimax will take a firmer stance on a complaint with merit.

So, where a warning may be given to one person, another person doing the same thing but has pushed the limits many times may get banned because Zenimax has contacted tired of warning them for their behavior towards others.

That is where the gray area comes into play and is justified.

Wolfpaw

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Teabagging, and similarly the pushup emote (this is the only affected emote afaik) have been previously stated by ZOS to constitute harassment and a TOS violation if continuing to do so after being asked to stop (if you've been ignored by this person, or they're playing offline, the requirement is that you send them an in-game mail asking them to stop). This isn't ambiguous. Just don't do it.

The standard that ZOS has set requires a previous warning to stop, and submission of video evidence of the harassment. If anything, requiring video evidence puts too much of the burden on the person being harassed. There should be sufficient game logging information recorded by ZOS to get this completely reasonable enforcement without needing the person being harassed to go to special effort that they may or may not even be capable of doing (not all systems can easily record game footage).

These actions are harassment. Stop doing them.

Ok so if you like to tea bag, ignore player enemies you tea bag and change your settings to no incoming whispers, now you can't be banned.

How absurd this rule is.

Amottica

Wolfpaw wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Teabagging, and similarly the pushup emote (this is the only affected emote afaik) have been previously stated by ZOS to constitute harassment and a TOS violation if continuing to do so after being asked to stop (if you've been ignored by this person, or they're playing offline, the requirement is that you send them an in-game mail asking them to stop). This isn't ambiguous. Just don't do it.

The standard that ZOS has set requires a previous warning to stop, and submission of video evidence of the harassment. If anything, requiring video evidence puts too much of the burden on the person being harassed. There should be sufficient game logging information recorded by ZOS to get this completely reasonable enforcement without needing the person being harassed to go to special effort that they may or may not even be capable of doing (not all systems can easily record game footage).

These actions are harassment. Stop doing them.

Ok so if you like to tea bag, ignore player enemies you tea bag and change your settings to no incoming whispers, now you can't be banned.

How absurd this rule is.

And that is why Zenimax said reports would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

Wolfpaw

Amottica wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Teabagging, and similarly the pushup emote (this is the only affected emote afaik) have been previously stated by ZOS to constitute harassment and a TOS violation if continuing to do so after being asked to stop (if you've been ignored by this person, or they're playing offline, the requirement is that you send them an in-game mail asking them to stop). This isn't ambiguous. Just don't do it.

The standard that ZOS has set requires a previous warning to stop, and submission of video evidence of the harassment. If anything, requiring video evidence puts too much of the burden on the person being harassed. There should be sufficient game logging information recorded by ZOS to get this completely reasonable enforcement without needing the person being harassed to go to special effort that they may or may not even be capable of doing (not all systems can easily record game footage).

These actions are harassment. Stop doing them.

Ok so if you like to tea bag, ignore player enemies you tea bag and change your settings to no incoming whispers, now you can't be banned.

How absurd this rule is.

And that is why Zenimax said reports would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

A complete waste of resources.

All for reporting for verbal/chat harassment, if you feel the need to I don't.

Like I mentioned, and tell your guild members, add players you like to bag on ignore and set not receive whispers...bag away!

Silly this is even taken in such a offensive way that it has a rule that can easily be avoided, and a topic for discussion.

acastanza_ESO

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Teabagging, and similarly the pushup emote (this is the only affected emote afaik) have been previously stated by ZOS to constitute harassment and a TOS violation if continuing to do so after being asked to stop (if you've been ignored by this person, or they're playing offline, the requirement is that you send them an in-game mail asking them to stop). This isn't ambiguous. Just don't do it.

The standard that ZOS has set requires a previous warning to stop, and submission of video evidence of the harassment. If anything, requiring video evidence puts too much of the burden on the person being harassed. There should be sufficient game logging information recorded by ZOS to get this completely reasonable enforcement without needing the person being harassed to go to special effort that they may or may not even be capable of doing (not all systems can easily record game footage).

These actions are harassment. Stop doing them.

Ok so if you like to tea bag, ignore player enemies you tea bag and change your settings to no incoming whispers, now you can't be banned.

How absurd this rule is.

And that is why Zenimax said reports would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

A complete waste of resources.

All for reporting for verbal/chat harassment, if you feel the need to I don't.

Like I mentioned, and tell your guild members, add players you like to bag on ignore and set not receive whispers...bag away!

Silly this is even taken in such a offensive way that it has a rule that can easily be avoided, and a topic for discussion.

No, the fallback is sending in-game mail. At that point, you record yourself trying to tell them to stop and that is (supposed to be) sufficient, because that that point it's obvious that the person knows what they're doing.

Amottica

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Teabagging, and similarly the pushup emote (this is the only affected emote afaik) have been previously stated by ZOS to constitute harassment and a TOS violation if continuing to do so after being asked to stop (if you've been ignored by this person, or they're playing offline, the requirement is that you send them an in-game mail asking them to stop). This isn't ambiguous. Just don't do it.

The standard that ZOS has set requires a previous warning to stop, and submission of video evidence of the harassment. If anything, requiring video evidence puts too much of the burden on the person being harassed. There should be sufficient game logging information recorded by ZOS to get this completely reasonable enforcement without needing the person being harassed to go to special effort that they may or may not even be capable of doing (not all systems can easily record game footage).

These actions are harassment. Stop doing them.

Ok so if you like to tea bag, ignore player enemies you tea bag and change your settings to no incoming whispers, now you can't be banned.

How absurd this rule is.

And that is why Zenimax said reports would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

A complete waste of resources.

All for reporting for verbal/chat harassment, if you feel the need to I don't.

Like I mentioned, and tell your guild members, add players you like to bag on ignore and set not receive whispers...bag away!

Silly this is even taken in such a offensive way that it has a rule that can easily be avoided, and a topic for discussion.

No, the fallback is sending in-game mail. At that point, you record yourself trying to tell them to stop and that is (supposed to be) sufficient, because that that point it's obvious that the person knows what they're doing.

Good point and certainly not a complete waste of time.

DaisyRay

I still can't believe bagging offends people honestly. Actually, I don't think it's the bag. I think it offends their pride because dying to anyone is just not acceptable to them. That's the only thing that I can think of for someone to get so upset that they whisper or report someone. Getting a bag doesn't mean you're a bad player, everyone wins and loses. It's not something I would ever report someone over. For me, reports should be for serious things like slurs, harassments, and just creepy vibes overall. If you're willing to likely get someone banned because they teabagged you, you're not someone I would want to play with. I bag my friends all the time and we just laugh about it, even in pve.

However, with that being said I respect the wishes of others and just don't do it to people I don't know.

goldenarcher1

How to get t-bagged in PvP:

1. Equip bow.

2. Get killed.

Elo106

I would just like them to clarify the rule cause right now it seems so random, some people are getting warnings, others banned, if you get a warning and try to appeal you might get banned. Hopefully @ZOS_Kevin can get us an answer.

Amottica

Elo106 wrote: »

I would just like them to clarify the rule cause right now it seems so random, some people are getting warnings, others banned, if you get a warning and try to appeal you might get banned. Hopefully @ZOS_Kevin can get us an answer.

@Elo106

I already noted that this has been clarified. Besides each issue likely having nuances that need to be taken into consideration, Zenimax also looks at the history with the player. If they have a history of causing Zenimax some headaches such as they have been warned about their actions before, regardless of what those actions were, they can expect to receive a harsher response and at some point, a ban.

It can take something fairly small for a player to get banned if they have proven themselves to be a problem child. That is where your difference is, and Zenimax has said as much in a thread about a player that got banned due to their name choice. It applies here just as much.

I am editing this to add the relevant comment from Gina where the action is something that one person would not get banned for but another person would.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

geonsocal

goldenarcher1 wrote: »

How to get t-bagged in PvP:

1. Equip bow.

2. Get killed.

the irony of comments matched with usernames makes me laugh like crazy

Wolfpaw

DaisyRay wrote: »

I still can't believe bagging offends people honestly. Actually, I don't think it's the bag. I think it offends their pride because dying to anyone is just not acceptable to them. That's the only thing that I can think of for someone to get so upset that they whisper or report someone. Getting a bag doesn't mean you're a bad player, everyone wins and loses. It's not something I would ever report someone over. For me, reports should be for serious things like slurs, harassments, and just creepy vibes overall. If you're willing to likely get someone banned because they teabagged you, you're not someone I would want to play with. I bag my friends all the time and we just laugh about it, even in pve.

However, with that being said I respect the wishes of others and just don't do it to people I don't know.

Agree, reports should be serious in nature like you mentioned.

To what extent can this go, ok a player sends ingame email (lol) asking to stop being Tbag. Ok sure, next time it will be pushups on your face, next time the Tbag emote (made by zos lol), next time it will be etc...this is a joke, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Amottica

Wolfpaw wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

I still can't believe bagging offends people honestly. Actually, I don't think it's the bag. I think it offends their pride because dying to anyone is just not acceptable to them. That's the only thing that I can think of for someone to get so upset that they whisper or report someone. Getting a bag doesn't mean you're a bad player, everyone wins and loses. It's not something I would ever report someone over. For me, reports should be for serious things like slurs, harassments, and just creepy vibes overall. If you're willing to likely get someone banned because they teabagged you, you're not someone I would want to play with. I bag my friends all the time and we just laugh about it, even in pve.

However, with that being said I respect the wishes of others and just don't do it to people I don't know.

I had a friend reported I can tell you we would focus/guild bounty on that player reporting.

Doubtful Zenimax would treat such actions very well and hopefully, such a group has at least one stand-up player who would make sure such poor behavior is handled properly.

Seriously, is it this important to t-bag someone? The answer is a solid NO.

ellmarie

Wolfpaw wrote: »

This, also lost count how many female friends I've seen drop the Clam Slam...and call it out when they do on a dead enemy lol.

not just a guy thing, just a fun mini game of tag

I didn't know there was a term for this! I'm dying laughing.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Slow pushups emote on a dead players face count lol?

And this is also funny when I see it. Then again for an older female I am, I have a sense of humor of a 14 year old.

Wolfpaw

ellmarie wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

This, also lost count how many female friends I've seen drop the Clam Slam...and call it out when they do on a dead enemy lol.

not just a guy thing, just a fun mini game of tag

I didn't know there was a term for this! I'm dying laughing.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Slow pushups emote on a dead players face count lol?

And this is also funny when I see it. Then again for an older female I am, I have a sense of humor of a 14 year old.

I prefer light hearted

Casul

Honestly I knew a guy on PS4 who would tbag every kill he got to make them angry, then in turn they would play a bit sloppily and as a result get killed more (and then get tbag more)

It's kind of a viable strategy.

DaisyRay

A new thing I've seen is people bagging the ground. Usually when a fight comes to a stalemate.

acastanza_ESO

Wolfpaw wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

I still can't believe bagging offends people honestly. Actually, I don't think it's the bag. I think it offends their pride because dying to anyone is just not acceptable to them. That's the only thing that I can think of for someone to get so upset that they whisper or report someone. Getting a bag doesn't mean you're a bad player, everyone wins and loses. It's not something I would ever report someone over. For me, reports should be for serious things like slurs, harassments, and just creepy vibes overall. If you're willing to likely get someone banned because they teabagged you, you're not someone I would want to play with. I bag my friends all the time and we just laugh about it, even in pve.

However, with that being said I respect the wishes of others and just don't do it to people I don't know.

Agree, reports should be serious in nature like you mentioned.

To what extent can this go, ok a player sends ingame email (lol) asking to stop being Tbag. Ok sure, next time it will be pushups on your face, next time the Tbag emote (made by zos lol), next time it will be etc...this is a joke, [snip]

that is the very definition of targeted harassment, you realize that, right?

[edited to remove quote]

Wolfpaw

DaisyRay wrote: »

A new thing I've seen is people bagging the ground. Usually when a fight comes to a stalemate.

The artistic expression air tea bag! Applied to those stalemates, pre fight taunt, and those quick to report.

I got the lowest of low bottom feeder tbags last night, a Bowblade Oaken stealth/Toxic Barrage spammer...after taking out two of his friends solo, he/she got me followed by the bags.

Good times, now why would I take that away from them

Oakenaxe

However, with that being said I respect the wishes of others and just don't do it to people I don't know.

- That's it. Simple. I also don't care about receiving it, but knowing that there are people out there that get triggered, there is no reason for me to do it. Unless you are my friend, then I'm totally doing the /playdead emote next to you (tea bagging to me always looked like the person who is doing it is actually repeatedly sitting at the other's crotch)

CaperGuy

There’s something just …. obnoxious about bagging to me, in most situations. I’m probably just old and don’t understand it I guess. I played WoW , Diablo 2, Diablo 3 for a long time, where bagging didn’t exist. I came to ESO and discovered this was a thing that gaming communities had started to do over the years (so uncivilized ). I had never played Halo, etc.

If an enemy bags me I find it irritating unless it’s a buddy doing it tongue in cheek. Otherwise it’s like when you’re a kid playing sports and there’s just that one little bugger on the enemy team that gloats just a bit too much and makes you want to manually wipe the smirk off their face.

Emotes I find funnier/more light hearted even from enemies and I can get a chuckle out of those, especially if they’re done cleverly like the play dead emote or setting up oil on a body and pouring it followed by using a bucket of water emote. . Or even just running along with the jester personality will have me laughing so much that I’ll slip up in PvP and you’ll possibly kill me.

I guess different folks have a different threshold, or take a different meaning for the stuff than others.

KilianDermoth

I found out that makeing a joke about this as suggesting a minigame about this topic in this thread after someone asked for a pvp minigame:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/613887/what-minigame-do-you-want-for-next-expansion/p6
seems to be against the rules.

So one rule anyone should keep in mind: no suggesting of ... minigames in ESO! But practicing it seems to be ok, because you often can see it done ingame.

At least I hope I understand the removal / warning that it was about mentioning the word of this topic. While when thats not the reason then the word minigame would probably be forbidden or is again talking about pvp forbiden? Do they probably again remove / warn / ban because someone mentioned pvp?

Kory

CaperGuy wrote: »

There’s something just …. obnoxious about bagging to me, in most situations. I’m probably just old and don’t understand it I guess. I played WoW , Diablo 2, Diablo 3 for a long time, where bagging didn’t exist. I came to ESO and discovered this was a thing that gaming communities had started to do over the years (so uncivilized ). I had never played Halo, etc.

If an enemy bags me I find it irritating unless it’s a buddy doing it tongue in cheek. Otherwise it’s like when you’re a kid playing sports and there’s just that one little bugger on the enemy team that gloats just a bit too much and makes you want to manually wipe the smirk off their face.

Emotes I find funnier/more light hearted even from enemies and I can get a chuckle out of those, especially if they’re done cleverly like the play dead emote or setting up oil on a body and pouring it followed by using a bucket of water emote. . Or even just running along with the jester personality will have me laughing so much that I’ll slip up in PvP and you’ll possibly kill me.

I guess different folks have a different threshold, or take a different meaning for the stuff than others.

I agree. Emotes have a different vibe to it where we are all having fun with the animations, but teabagging is like 13 year old gamer angry or trolling to make themselves feel accomplished. Can't get mad at emotes because there's an air of humor about it, but teabagging as always been a little disrespectful. But it's a video game so it doesn't matter to much to me.

iaminc

Dunno what the issue with bagging is ,

ZoS been bagging it’s player base continuously for 8 years ……..

paulychan

I don't mind the ol" Jimmy Dean dip after a good 1v1 or 1vx. it's the hordes of blue dudes that tbag random bodies that kills me. It's a good laugh while waiting for a rez