Occult Overload is too powerful

OnGodiDoDis

This passive is too overtuned. It deals 12800 oblivion damage. This means that even with battlespirit active, it still deals that 12800. Which in turn means that it would be a 25600 tooltip if it was any other kind of damage. This 12800 goes through Mist Form as well because oblivion damage ignores all forms of damage mitigation. What in the world was the combat team thinking...?

Holycannoli

My guess is it's tuned for PvE. Not sure why it would be but what else about it makes sense lol.

Iriidius

nobody needs Oblivion dmg in PvE, it is the same like normal dmg there. It is tuned for PvP. Oblivion dmg because it ignores battle spirit and all dmg reduces.

Danse_Mayhem

Especially when you consider that knight slayer, sloads and oblivion glyphs were all toned down to rework oblivion damage into a % based hit that performed better against high HP targets. Even the previous 4000 damage didn’t really align with that and was just another tool for the bomb meta, but the 12800 is just mental.

More often than not, it’s efficient to just attack guards that are near enemy players to get this hit and the kill.

Recently I attacked a DK on a resource, got them to around half HP and they used corrosive, then a mage guard came running at me, and since I was stood next to the enemy DK, I used force pulse on the DK, which reflected to the mage guard, killed it, and then dropped the DK for 12800 oblivion damage through their corrosive.

No problem with it going through corrosive but it’s just crazy that you can’t even play remotely near NPCs without this being all over your death sheet.

olsborg

It should not be oblivion dmg.

charley222

yea the most unskillful and brainless passive that make melee feel so bad too the point melee dont want to melee anymore and stay far just shooting arrow

paulychan

it's so stupid how powerful this passive is. I run it on every build

Holycannoli

olsborg wrote: »

It should not be oblivion dmg.

It shouldn't be 2,560 damage per stage with 5 stages.

And the problem is if it's significantly less damage per stage it's not worth spending any points on. So what to do?

Necrotech_Master

Holycannoli wrote: »

My guess is it's tuned for PvE. Not sure why it would be but what else about it makes sense lol.

well, 12800 dmg in pve that cannot crit is actually kind of normal/lowish (even during non-execute ive had skills hitting up to 15-20k with crits)

ive always seen that as being designed more for pvp, but the 4000 it was doing before wasnt really noticeable

if they wanted to make it a more even number they could go for 2000 per stage, which is 10k dmg (2800 less dmg would still be a good bit difference when its oblivion dmg)

Casul

Would 5 stages at 20 points each be fairer?

Firstmep

It should scale up in dmg per target hit like all similar explode on kill mechanics.
You can literally have one guy next to you, and that person dying will hit you for the full 12k, which is just silly.

Necrotech_Master

Firstmep wrote: »

It should scale up in dmg per target hit like all similar explode on kill mechanics.
You can literally have one guy next to you, and that person dying will hit you for the full 12k, which is just silly.

VD doesnt scale for number of targets but can hit for about 50-90% of the dmg as occult (depending on your own resistances of course)

if they wanted to bring it closer in line with VD then they could drop its max bonus to 8k which would still hurt, but also not be useless like the 4k it was originally

Cuddlypuff

Firstmep wrote: »

It should scale up in dmg per target hit like all similar explode on kill mechanics.
You can literally have one guy next to you, and that person dying will hit you for the full 12k, which is just silly.

Could you imagine if the damage scaled to 36K if it hits 12 players? You can literally solo pull a guard or pug into the center of a ball group and they will all wipe instantly.

CameraBeardThePirate

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

It should scale up in dmg per target hit like all similar explode on kill mechanics.
You can literally have one guy next to you, and that person dying will hit you for the full 12k, which is just silly.

VD doesnt scale for number of targets but can hit for about 50-90% of the dmg as occult (depending on your own resistances of course)

if they wanted to bring it closer in line with VD then they could drop its max bonus to 8k which would still hurt, but also not be useless like the 4k it was originally

The 4k was hardly "useless". Even at 4k damage Occult Overload was extremely good for bombing.

Necrotech_Master

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

It should scale up in dmg per target hit like all similar explode on kill mechanics.
You can literally have one guy next to you, and that person dying will hit you for the full 12k, which is just silly.

VD doesnt scale for number of targets but can hit for about 50-90% of the dmg as occult (depending on your own resistances of course)

if they wanted to bring it closer in line with VD then they could drop its max bonus to 8k which would still hurt, but also not be useless like the 4k it was originally

The 4k was hardly "useless". Even at 4k damage Occult Overload was extremely good for bombing.

if it did anything, it wasnt hardly noticeable lol

from "general play" small scale to zerg surfing i think i had 1 kill with the old 4k occult overload (i was using it basically since it was added)

ive had a few more than that (with the new occult), but still far far less than many other skills or siege

(my main pvp toon is essentially a brawler NB, not setup as a bomber, just using occult because of the extra burst it can provide)

edit: clarity

Wolfpaw

It's fine as is, go play no-cp.

Stop asking for nerfs.

neferpitou73

Oh, if only someone had warned them about this before they released it! oh wait,...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/605146/occult-overload-buff#latest

Digibrax

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It's fine as is, go play no-cp.

Stop asking for nerfs.

I agree.

ZOS_Icy

​Greetings,

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Thank you for your understanding.

ArgonianAustin

With the new plague break change, we will see this more often, did they change the direct damage needed to proc plague break? They said it can proc on multiple people in 1 attack now.

OnGodiDoDis

ArgonianAustin wrote: »

With the new plague break change, we will see this more often, did they change the direct damage needed to proc plague break? They said it can proc on multiple people in 1 attack now.

No. It will also retain its application cooldown. Only one target can get it once per second.

Wolfpaw

ArgonianAustin wrote: »

With the new plague break change, we will see this more often, did they change the direct damage needed to proc plague break? They said it can proc on multiple people in 1 attack now.

"This set now has a cooldown of 20 seconds per target, rather than only against targets that do not already have the DoT on them.
This set can now proc on multiple enemies from a singular attack.
Reduced the Damage over Time by approximately 48%, but this damage can now Critically Strike as it does not have ingrained modifiers built into it.
Increased the damage by explosion by approximately 3%.
The damage from this set now always applies the Diseased status effect."

& Occult Overload pops are a beautiful thing

ArgonianAustin

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ArgonianAustin wrote: »

With the new plague break change, we will see this more often, did they change the direct damage needed to proc plague break? They said it can proc on multiple people in 1 attack now.

"This set now has a cooldown of 20 seconds per target, rather than only against targets that do not already have the DoT on them.
This set can now proc on multiple enemies from a singular attack.
Reduced the Damage over Time by approximately 48%, but this damage can now Critically Strike as it does not have ingrained modifiers built into it.
Increased the damage by explosion by approximately 3%.
The damage from this set now always applies the Diseased status effect."

& Occult Overload pops are a beautiful thing

"this set can now proc on multiple enemies from a singular attack".

I wondering what that means, like for example on my necro bomber, will dark convergence or my flesh colossus apply plaguebreak on everyone hit thus also occult overload 100% of the time because of the diseased status effect.

Danse_Mayhem

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It's fine as is, go play no-cp.

Stop asking for nerfs.

Not only are no CP campaigns generally dead compared to the others, but ‘just go play elsewhere’ is a legit terrible solution to what is clearly a broken passive that outperforms every other skill / ultimate / set in the game.

If you read the detailed explanations on this, or pvp in areas which are completely dominated by this thing then you may learn why players are annoyed at this.

Wolfpaw

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It's fine as is, go play no-cp.

Stop asking for nerfs.

Not only are no CP campaigns generally dead compared to the others, but ‘just go play elsewhere’ is a legit terrible solution to what is clearly a broken passive that outperforms every other skill / ultimate / set in the game.

If you read the detailed explanations on this, or pvp in areas which are completely dominated by this thing then you may learn why players are annoyed at this.

Well the no-cp campaigns are generally dead because some players rather keep the status quo.

OO is doing exactly what ZOS intended it to do, blow up zergs. It's just 12,800 damage if hit with it once, hardly outperforming every ult, skill, & set in the game.

If you get hit by multiple sources of it, well stop running around in zergs.

Danse_Mayhem

Idk where to start with a response to that lol.

12800 AOE oblivion damage that is undodgable, unblockable and cannot be mitigated, absolutely does outperform literally every proc set, skill and ult in the game… By a long shot.

Also, none of the (experienced and well informed) players here who are writing detailed info on how this CP is broken, are wanting to Zerg around with 60ppl and are losing to this - They are annoyed that we are getting nuked from standing near a single NPC at a resource, or one other player when we are small scaling. It’s not a set that requires having a big group to punish you, it requires 1-2 other targets (including players, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc pets etc) to be close and it’s goodnight with no counter.

If the solution is to social distance and play solo, away from any and all objectives (keeps and resources) on a multiplayer online game, then that is quite possibly the worst solution to an eso imbalance ive ever heard.

Wolfpaw

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Idk where to start with a response to that lol.

12800 AOE oblivion damage that is undodgable, unblockable and cannot be mitigated, absolutely does outperform literally every proc set, skill and ult in the game… By a long shot.

Also, none of the (experienced and well informed) players here who are writing detailed info on how this CP is broken, are wanting to Zerg around with 60ppl and are losing to this - They are annoyed that we are getting nuked from standing near a single NPC at a resource, or one other player when we are small scaling. It’s not a set that requires having a big group to punish you, it requires 1-2 other targets (including players, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc pets etc) to be close and it’s goodnight with no counter.

If the solution is to social distance and play solo, away from any and all objectives (keeps and resources) on a multiplayer online game, then that is quite possibly the worst solution to an eso imbalance ive ever heard.

Absolutely false, if you don't see numbers from sets, skills, & ults at 13k damage plus idk what to even say to that...

and if players can't mitigate/think of solutions from a single npc/player oblivion pop of 12,800 damage, well, again no-cp/proc would be a better solution for those players pvp experience.

Danse_Mayhem

Tell me what skills / ults hit for 12800 reliably? I’m not talking tooltip, I’m talking actual damage.
Sure there’s the occasional 20k assassins will and 15k leap on squishies, but that’s reliant on crit, pen, damage modifiers and a weak opponent. Occult overload is a guaranteed 12800 damage no matter what, and cannot be mitigated since it’s oblivion. No proc set even comes close to this damage consistently.

So far I’m yet to see a single quality argument for occult overload being that strong, like, at all.

OnGodiDoDis

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Idk where to start with a response to that lol.

12800 AOE oblivion damage that is undodgable, unblockable and cannot be mitigated, absolutely does outperform literally every proc set, skill and ult in the game… By a long shot.

Also, none of the (experienced and well informed) players here who are writing detailed info on how this CP is broken, are wanting to Zerg around with 60ppl and are losing to this - They are annoyed that we are getting nuked from standing near a single NPC at a resource, or one other player when we are small scaling. It’s not a set that requires having a big group to punish you, it requires 1-2 other targets (including players, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc pets etc) to be close and it’s goodnight with no counter.

If the solution is to social distance and play solo, away from any and all objectives (keeps and resources) on a multiplayer online game, then that is quite possibly the worst solution to an eso imbalance ive ever heard.

Absolutely false, if you don't see numbers from sets, skills, & ults at 13k damage plus idk what to even say to that...

and if players can't mitigate/think of solutions from a single npc/player oblivion pop of 12,800 damage, well, again no-cp/proc would be a better solution for those players pvp experience.

Of course, the 12800 doesn't come on its own. It requires someone to deal enough damage to kill someone, so that dead player deals an additional 12800 damage to everyone else. Given that oblivion damage goes through all resistances and Battle Spirit, it is effectively a 25600 tooltip on a passive. If someone next to you took enough damage to die and now you take another 25600, how is that balanced?

Wolfpaw

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Idk where to start with a response to that lol.

12800 AOE oblivion damage that is undodgable, unblockable and cannot be mitigated, absolutely does outperform literally every proc set, skill and ult in the game… By a long shot.

Also, none of the (experienced and well informed) players here who are writing detailed info on how this CP is broken, are wanting to Zerg around with 60ppl and are losing to this - They are annoyed that we are getting nuked from standing near a single NPC at a resource, or one other player when we are small scaling. It’s not a set that requires having a big group to punish you, it requires 1-2 other targets (including players, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc pets etc) to be close and it’s goodnight with no counter.

If the solution is to social distance and play solo, away from any and all objectives (keeps and resources) on a multiplayer online game, then that is quite possibly the worst solution to an eso imbalance ive ever heard.

Absolutely false, if you don't see numbers from sets, skills, & ults at 13k damage plus idk what to even say to that...

and if players can't mitigate/think of solutions from a single npc/player oblivion pop of 12,800 damage, well, again no-cp/proc would be a better solution for those players pvp experience.

Of course, the 12800 doesn't come on its own. It requires someone to deal enough damage to kill someone, so that dead player deal an additional 12800 damage to everyone else. Given that oblivion damage goes through all resistances and Battle Spirit, it is effectively a 25600 tooltip on a passive. If someone next to you took enough damage to die and now you take another 25600, how is that balanced?

• Is your CP allocation too offensively heavy?
• Has your health been adjusted?
• Can you find ways to further mitigate prior damage to a possible occult overload proc?
• All you need is a killing blow to proc occult overload, you sure about that?
• How long do status effects last?
• Can you remove status effects?
• How is your battlefield awareness? You in a breach, choke point, or cornered?
• Do you play solo in group content, if so, should your expectations and outcome be the same as a coordinated group?
• Are you in a Dark Convergence cluster pop too often? If so what ways can you reduce that.
• Are you aware of Occult Overload range? & if so why are you within 4m radius?
• What skill are you using that require a range less than 4m?
• What support skills are you using that require a range of less than 4m to an ally?

Maybe if players start looking at solutions to their playstyle the solution wouldn't always be the forums asking for nerfs.
I do, every update, & I hope the above few things I mention help.

Possibly, less unnecessary nerf posts that take up valuable time and resources could be better spent on fixing real bugs and skills (Meteor for example) that are truly op and desync players.

Final note, this is a fantasy mmorpg and not some esport, if players want less of the fantasy part in pvp combat they should join the no-cp/proc campaign zos has provided.

my 2¢

Danse_Mayhem

- No CP defends against oblivion damage. It’s true damage no matter what so hits the same number no matter what.
- High health is a counter for sure, but considering 2 targets nearby hits 25600 + whatever else skill went off, then the typical 30-35k health target isn’t even enough.
- Yes a killing blow, when considering we have 8 status effects that count toward on it, and proc from all damage types, is up pretty much all of the time.
- You can remove status effects but purging isn’t ideal when plaguebreak is everywhere so you can’t be spamming that like in the past.
- No, we don’t play solo - That’s literally most peoples point here. The only option seems to be to play solo, since that’s the only way to guarantee you won’t be killed by team mates / NPCs. As listed before, we can all just join the boring bomb meta and use copy paste necro harmony builds to abuse this stuff but not everyone likes the idea of being funnelled into a single build for competitive play.
- The 4m radius wouldn’t be as much of an issue if dark convergence wasn’t on every second player, but even worse than that - Rush of agony pulls with no warning animation, and doesn’t grand CC immunity so isn’t a case of ‘just block’ because you don’t know when to block. This makes the 4m radius of OO just fine.

I appreciate the genetic list of checks but honesty it doesn’t change that this CP is overtuned as hell. Sure we can find ways around it with mega careful play and selective fights but we aren’t talking ideal situations. We are talking about the easiest free damage that every player can slot, and is on every death sheet right now in pvp.

Maybe also look at it from the reverse - Do players ‘need’ this to beat larger crowds? Do they even ‘need’ plaguebreak? And also, without those carry sets, would the current ball group problem be as bad? These things always completely aid the larger crowd every time without fail, and OO is no different.