Moving on from there, even as a mostly casual player, the constant changes every three months is so frustrating to me when all I want to do is log in, roleplay, furnish a house, make some new outfits for my character, do some quests, take some screenshots. Maybe I log in to my Altmer Magicka Templar who spanks in PvP for some competitive fun (who I also roleplay as a thalmor agent when I'm in the mood for that flavor of RP). As a result, I have to spend a month of my time preparing for each new update because all of my builds on all 10 of my characters are garbage every time the dev team decides to change things for the sake of changing things. And I have to re-itemize, I have to improve my new gear, farm dungeons incessantly for transmute crystals, I have to take time out of my day to plan out a build that fits with my characters' aesthetics and in-universe RP skillsets. It's so frustrating as a loyal player who's been subbed nonstop for the past 2 years, and a consistent player for the past 7 years.
When does it end? When can each corner of the community be left unmolested to play how they want to? Why do the devs insist on constant micromanagement to make sure that no one is having actual carefree fun from patch to patch. This game feels like a responsibility now and I'm so tired of it. I want to play an Elder Scrolls game. That's why I'm here.
doesurmindglow wrote: »Moving on from there, even as a mostly casual player, the constant changes every three months is so frustrating to me when all I want to do is log in, roleplay, furnish a house, make some new outfits for my character, do some quests, take some screenshots. Maybe I log in to my Altmer Magicka Templar who spanks in PvP for some competitive fun (who I also roleplay as a thalmor agent when I'm in the mood for that flavor of RP). As a result, I have to spend a month of my time preparing for each new update because all of my builds on all 10 of my characters are garbage every time the dev team decides to change things for the sake of changing things. And I have to re-itemize, I have to improve my new gear, farm dungeons incessantly for transmute crystals, I have to take time out of my day to plan out a build that fits with my characters' aesthetics and in-universe RP skillsets. It's so frustrating as a loyal player who's been subbed nonstop for the past 2 years, and a consistent player for the past 7 years.
When does it end? When can each corner of the community be left unmolested to play how they want to? Why do the devs insist on constant micromanagement to make sure that no one is having actual carefree fun from patch to patch. This game feels like a responsibility now and I'm so tired of it. I want to play an Elder Scrolls game. That's why I'm here.
I am very concerned about this particular aspect of the rapid and dramatic balance changes. I manage a casual trading guild with zero weekly sales/contributions/etc requirements and as a result we're home to a great many "casual" players. In my definition, "casual" is not synonymous with "bad" or even with "disabled." Some are very good players. Some have even cleared the hardest content in the game. But they are legit "casual" in the sense that they simply do not have a large amount of time to dedicate toward keeping up with balance shifts and adapting their gameplay.
The number one complaint I hear from them when contemplating return or considering continuing with the game is that it is tremendous burden to follow balance changes, wade through the labyrinth of outdated and conflicting information those changes create, and adapt their play accordingly when already limited in the amount of time they can spend in the game. Many don't want to have to change "everything" every three months.
To give voice to these guildies I raised this issue on the PTS during week 1 and was basically shouted down in a post that I didn't intend to read like prophecy rather than critique, but alas, here we are.
If anything, I believe this now even more than I did then: the single largest and most important barrier to accessibility and "pain point" leading to "quit moments" among "casual players" is, with little question or contest, the constant cycle of dramatic balance changes to the game and its rulesets. The worst part is there's simply no way that U35 rolls out as proposed and MORE dramatic changes are not necessarily in the next 6-12 months of patches, as it is so dramatically shifting so many aspects of the game and of playstyles that it will have to be adjusted even if by some miracle they got everything right in the next couple weeks. Even the rosiest outlook for the proposed changes means at least two or three more patch cycles before we have the slightest hope at something we might call "stability."
I think it's this, combined with a feeling of neglect to performance and bug fixes and the sense that player feedback in general is ignored, that are contributing to the outrage; factors that perhaps might be more significant than the proposed changes themselves.
doesurmindglow wrote: »Even the rosiest outlook for the proposed changes means at least two or three more patch cycles before we have the slightest hope at something we might call "stability."
I think it's this, combined with a feeling of neglect to performance and bug fixes and the sense that player feedback in general is ignored, that are contributing to the outrage; factors that perhaps might be more significant than the proposed changes themselves.
doesurmindglow wrote: »Even the rosiest outlook for the proposed changes means at least two or three more patch cycles before we have the slightest hope at something we might call "stability."
I think it's this, combined with a feeling of neglect to performance and bug fixes and the sense that player feedback in general is ignored, that are contributing to the outrage; factors that perhaps might be more significant than the proposed changes themselves.
Totally agree.
What ESO needs IMHO is a clear vision of how the game shall look like in 3 years from now. This needs to be developed and it needs to be communicated well to have the majority of the playerbase on board.
ZoS needs to step back from the quarterly update scheme. The result is semi-finished content that feels lackluster and is full of bugs, and no time to iron things out because the next quarter is already around the corner.
Stop that quarterly nonsense for a while and give the devs time to rectify everything that is broken. Use that time to fix bugs, to fix performance and to gain the trust back that was lost since U35 dropped to PTS.
An overhaul of the class system would be the greatest idea ever, and i've been an advocate of this change for years now.
For me class should be the result of choices of gameplay: I use spell so I’m a mage, I use sword so I’m a warrior.
What I do define what I am, not some arbitrary box, that’s has barely something to do with TES lore.
Hell I can’t even cast a spell with my hands, or play a battlemage.
That make 0 sens to me.
doesurmindglow wrote: »Moving on from there, even as a mostly casual player, the constant changes every three months is so frustrating to me when all I want to do is log in, roleplay, furnish a house, make some new outfits for my character, do some quests, take some screenshots. Maybe I log in to my Altmer Magicka Templar who spanks in PvP for some competitive fun (who I also roleplay as a thalmor agent when I'm in the mood for that flavor of RP). As a result, I have to spend a month of my time preparing for each new update because all of my builds on all 10 of my characters are garbage every time the dev team decides to change things for the sake of changing things. And I have to re-itemize, I have to improve my new gear, farm dungeons incessantly for transmute crystals, I have to take time out of my day to plan out a build that fits with my characters' aesthetics and in-universe RP skillsets. It's so frustrating as a loyal player who's been subbed nonstop for the past 2 years, and a consistent player for the past 7 years.
When does it end? When can each corner of the community be left unmolested to play how they want to? Why do the devs insist on constant micromanagement to make sure that no one is having actual carefree fun from patch to patch. This game feels like a responsibility now and I'm so tired of it. I want to play an Elder Scrolls game. That's why I'm here.
I am very concerned about this particular aspect of the rapid and dramatic balance changes. I manage a casual trading guild with zero weekly sales/contributions/etc requirements and as a result we're home to a great many "casual" players. In my definition, "casual" is not synonymous with "bad" or even with "disabled." Some are very good players. Some have even cleared the hardest content in the game. But they are legit "casual" in the sense that they simply do not have a large amount of time to dedicate toward keeping up with balance shifts and adapting their gameplay.
The number one complaint I hear from them when contemplating return or considering continuing with the game is that it is tremendous burden to follow balance changes, wade through the labyrinth of outdated and conflicting information those changes create, and adapt their play accordingly when already limited in the amount of time they can spend in the game. Many don't want to have to change "everything" every three months.
To give voice to these guildies I raised this issue on the PTS during week 1 and was basically shouted down in a post that I didn't intend to read like prophecy rather than critique, but alas, here we are.
If anything, I believe this now even more than I did then: the single largest and most important barrier to accessibility and "pain point" leading to "quit moments" among "casual players" is, with little question or contest, the constant cycle of dramatic balance changes to the game and its rulesets. The worst part is there's simply no way that U35 rolls out as proposed and MORE dramatic changes are not necessarily in the next 6-12 months of patches, as it is so dramatically shifting so many aspects of the game and of playstyles that it will have to be adjusted even if by some miracle they got everything right in the next couple weeks. Even the rosiest outlook for the proposed changes means at least two or three more patch cycles before we have the slightest hope at something we might call "stability."
I think it's this, combined with a feeling of neglect to performance and bug fixes and the sense that player feedback in general is ignored, that are contributing to the outrage; factors that perhaps might be more significant than the proposed changes themselves.
Just to wrap up my thoughts, this game is extremely frustrating and I, and many others, are tired of it. Between sledghehammer changes, damage reductions without adjusting content, constant developer micromanagement of things that don't need to be micromanaged, arbitrary changes, and arbitrary design philosophies. It's a perfect storm all at once with U35 and I, and a lot of other people, are just exhausted with it.
I totally hear you. My breaking point was U33. It is everything that you summed up quite thoroughly, as well as the degree of blatant, glaring contempt towards the community that ended that toxic relationship.
At the end of the day, you are the master of what you do. Your loyalty is to you, not a business entity that just wants your money.
The gaming industry is lacking someone with foresight at the moment.
Perhaps with some luck, a person who wants to put the product first will appear again and we'll at least have 10 years of 'good gaming'.
I dunno. Yoshi is pretty awesome. He shut the game down to do a complete overhaul, stopped sales when the servers needed beefing up, and always has a "community first" mindset. That's why he continues to get my money.
My favorite game developer quote:
“A late game is late once. A bad game is bad forever.”
- Shigeru Miyamoto
Necrotech_Master wrote: »do we want elder scrolls to continue being elder scrolls or turn into the E.T. for atari?
Holycannoli wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »do we want elder scrolls to continue being elder scrolls or turn into the E.T. for atari?
That game wasn't that bad.
I may actually have that cartridge still in storage, maybe. My Atari 2600 is in my closet.
@Sevalaricgirl You have almost my exact story! I’m an ESO preorder beta player too and a former SWTOR raider and left SETOR After 7 straight years of raiding when 6.0 made raiding so painful it wasn’t worth it the effort anymore. As a current ESO raider update 35 is giving me SWTOR 6.0 vibes and it really scares me.Sevalaricgirl wrote: »
I think update 35 is going to be the final straw for many many veteran players.
Sad really.
Yes, I'm there. I spend more time playing other games now. I've been playing ESO since 2014. Preordered it even. But they are constantly nerfing the game and it gets tiring. And ZOS' attitude about it is nonsensical. "Players crying boo hoo." I quit SWTOR, one of my favorite MMOs, because they took it from an MMO to a solo game and then butchered it.
ZOS needs to stop, leave it well enough alone. Let the players play it their way.
Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »
I don't do trials with my off-meta cryomancer warden, nor do I expect to. Trial content exists for people who meta chase and power game. And they should have their end of the game left unmolested. That is what they find fun. That's not what casual players find fun. Not being able to do trials with our roleplay builds is not the contention casual fans have with the game. We do not want the endgame community to be kneecapped and treated like class enemies so that we can then be told that this is being done in our name to lower the ceiling so that we aren't so disparate in power from the endgame. We don't endgame because we don't want to endgame. We are totally satisfied staying in our corner of the game.
To be specific, I don't think that content the developers spend time developing should be partitioned along such strict lines. I don't believe that ZOS should be developing trials for only 1% of the population. And as someone who has spent a significant time within the end-game community (I'm not a die-hard score-pusher, I'm rather casual but I've completed most hard modes and some trifectas), I don't actually believe that "trials" is what the community you're talking about is after, but trifectas, score-pushing and carries. That's where I believe the line should be drawn. There's plenty of space for meta there, I don't think that its owed to anyone to get the best scores, and meta-chasing and score-pushing are (and should be) artificial and arbitrarily challenging sport within a framework that is otherwise designed to be accessible.
Right now it *would* be a bad idea to bring your cryomancer into a trial. But that's only because you built her according to some internal logic rather than to the strict adherence to an arbitrary combination of numbers the content is gated to. In a game that was said as early as 2014 to be designed to be intuitive and keep you in the world, letting a spreadsheet formula have so very much more currency and relative power is simply not ideal. Its a system that unduly rewards spreadsheet adherence due to the powergap it creates, and that is going to be off-putting for a lot of potential players; you have to be super devoted to "play-how-you-want" when the innate system seems to be telling you you're doing it bad, when even at overland people are just absolutely NUKING the world around you while you do embarrisngly mediocre pew-pew and ask yourself why bother.
Part of the answer to this, I believe, is making DPS NOT occupy the entirety of the challenge design space. I think that the developers were thinking in this way when they recently said in a stream that they really want to capitalise on movement in content, because they consider this a big feature in ESO. Mechanics involving things like movement are an interesting space for making things challenging because it draws a different lines of exclusion- reflex, perception, spatial awareness, which offer the possibility you're being challenged by the limits of raw ability and knowledge rather than that you chose to play a frostmage. And I want to add that people *have* been complaining for a long time that "dps is the answer to all mechanics".
By the way, I agree more than I disagree. I think there IS a lot of change exhaustion, and think ZOS needs to be wary of it. I also agree that the class system is restrictive and clunky.
Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »
ESO also feels more and more like a job with things are being designed in a way that makes you think you HAVE to do them.
shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
I agree completely.
PvP has become of series of being janked from one Dark Convergence proc to another with practically zero ability to play solo in Cyrodiil anymore. It's just grossly overtuned sets like Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence and Oakensoul. Super low population caps so if you don't zerg you don't get any action.
PvE has become a version of Barbie dress up and housing as the main focus....and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
I agree completely.
PvP has become of series of being janked from one Dark Convergence proc to another with practically zero ability to play solo in Cyrodiil anymore. It's just grossly overtuned sets like Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence and Oakensoul. Super low population caps so if you don't zerg you don't get any action.
PvE has become a version of Barbie dress up and housing as the main focus....and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
I agree completely.
PvP has become of series of being janked from one Dark Convergence proc to another with practically zero ability to play solo in Cyrodiil anymore. It's just grossly overtuned sets like Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence and Oakensoul. Super low population caps so if you don't zerg you don't get any action.
PvE has become a version of Barbie dress up and housing as the main focus....and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
I know I am a noob and just plain old. But I have heard Janked and Zerg used before. What do they mean? You all can rip me for asking that.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
I agree completely.
PvP has become of series of being janked from one Dark Convergence proc to another with practically zero ability to play solo in Cyrodiil anymore. It's just grossly overtuned sets like Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence and Oakensoul. Super low population caps so if you don't zerg you don't get any action.
PvE has become a version of Barbie dress up and housing as the main focus....and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
I know I am a noob and just plain old. But I have heard Janked and Zerg used before. What do they mean? You all can rip me for asking that.
I'm old -- not so much a noob anymore -- Zerg comes from Starcraft - it was one of the races there, and they do mass high speed charges -- hence, it is high speed charging into things, attacking on the run..... as in zerg'ing a dungeon --- blasting through at full sprint
Janked is one shot killed - not sure where it came from, but it means someone geared and set up to do a one shot without a chance for the opponent to respond - they get on you before you have a chance to do anything, and go for that quick kill ---- makes sense from a survival point of view, but a LOT of people consider it distasteful --- sort of like backstabbing.
Auldwulfe
. I, on the other hand, the other 95% of the playerbase, cannot do that. So now my off meta build that I was able to have decent fun with in some midgame challenging content, am now locked out of that due to sledgehammer balance philosophies from the combat team,
Just curious, but what is your dps on the pts? You said you are around 50k on live, what is your parse on pts?
I'll be honest, I haven't tested on the PTS yet because both the classes I play, Sorc and Warden, git hit the hardest, and I was just really apathetic about it that I didn't even want to see what state they were in.
50k on my ice warden, 52k to be exact but only after dummy humping for like 2 hours trying to optimize as best as I could.
I was able to reach 80k on my magsorc current Live patch with crystal weapon, which was very nice and the first time I've gotten that high. But that was ignoring my RP preferences and just optimizing best I could. Realistically my dps on my magsorc is about 60k since I hate pets.
I was holding out hope for week 3 that the light attack changes would be reversed and that sorc and warden would be brought back to life, but neither of those things happened. I may log in to do some tests but the apathy has set in for me. Plenty of people are there testing now that I trust to honestly relay the extent of the damage that was done to damage.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
...and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
I agree completely.
PvP has become of series of being janked from one Dark Convergence proc to another with practically zero ability to play solo in Cyrodiil anymore. It's just grossly overtuned sets like Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence and Oakensoul. Super low population caps so if you don't zerg you don't get any action.
PvE has become a version of Barbie dress up and housing as the main focus....and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
I know I am a noob and just plain old. But I have heard Janked and Zerg used before. What do they mean? You all can rip me for asking that.
EdmondDontes wrote: »shadyjane62 wrote: »How doe Zos think we got here to this game. I left Runescape for WoW. I left WoW for Rift. I added GW2 and SWTOR along the way. I left Rift etc for ESO. Hated ESO the first year went back to WoW for Legion. Came back to ESO for One Tamriel.
Since I found Templar I have stayed put feeling it was a combo of Paladin and Mage which I both loved.
I was tired of change so I stayed put in ESO through thick and thin.
Templar is so thin now as to be invisible.
Thanks to my family who took pity on senior on a fixed income I am able to go back to WoW with my husband and on to FFIV which is brand new to us.
People move when the game they play turns against them. Especially Seniors who may not have the time to invest in another dead end.
This game is rapidly becoming a dead end.
I agree completely.
PvP has become of series of being janked from one Dark Convergence proc to another with practically zero ability to play solo in Cyrodiil anymore. It's just grossly overtuned sets like Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence and Oakensoul. Super low population caps so if you don't zerg you don't get any action.
PvE has become a version of Barbie dress up and housing as the main focus....and I'm still struggling to comprehend why ZOS went this direction. It's like the whole game is just predatory marketing strategies now with the new OP gear always behind a paywall just to be nerfed a couple months later.
This game is NOTHING like it was when released.
I know I am a noob and just plain old. But I have heard Janked and Zerg used before. What do they mean? You all can rip me for asking that.
I'm old -- not so much a noob anymore -- Zerg comes from Starcraft - it was one of the races there, and they do mass high speed charges -- hence, it is high speed charging into things, attacking on the run..... as in zerg'ing a dungeon --- blasting through at full sprint
Janked is one shot killed - not sure where it came from, but it means someone geared and set up to do a one shot without a chance for the opponent to respond - they get on you before you have a chance to do anything, and go for that quick kill ---- makes sense from a survival point of view, but a LOT of people consider it distasteful --- sort of like backstabbing.
Auldwulfe