I am so frustrated with the state of this game

purple-magicb16_ESO

Agree. They're catering to the wrong people imho. You are the player base they should be connecting with. The "lifers". Not players sprinting to end game who get bored easily and leave once they get the meta gear, skins or whatever the flavor of the month is offered by the latest dungeon.

One thing they can do is offer better rewards for higher level crafters. Not level defined by skill in the craft, everyone is a master crafter. And not just rewards at the writ drop. Farming for motifs/furnishing plans for example should be easier for more experienced crafters. Players that have taken the time to learn as many motifs as they can, all traits etc. As it is, motif/furnishing plan farming has no connection whatsoever to a player's crafting experience. Crafting has become so boring and unrewarding and don't get me started on fishing.

In my opinion, it will be the lifers that keep this game going for the long-term. Give them garbage and they will leave. If that happens you'll see the player base spike and drop very dramatically with every new content installation.

Drammanoth

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

(...)it will be the lifers that keep this game going for the long-term. Give them garbage and they will leave. If(1) that happens you'll see the player base(2) spike and drop very dramatically with every new content installation.

Emphasis - mine

1) if such a situation does happen, ZOS will be at the risk of expereicing what a certain other, once venerable, company is now

2) player base =/= lifers. Yes, people come and go, true but isn't it better to have a loyal customer? aka. LIFER? A rhetorical question obviously.

shadyjane62

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the One Tamriel model is responsible for a lot of the dissatisfaction in overland difficulty.

One Tamriel saved this game.

Very much agree. My husband and I had written ESO off as a bad investment that first year. One Tamriel got me back in and here I've been till this abomination of a n update. My husband has never played this game again.

faerigirl

I agree with a lot of what the OP said. I've been here since alpha and think the game is good and still playable after all these years but the bloom is defiantly off the rose in terms of playing towards trials and such.

I am a middling player with hand crafted gear. One of the main reasons that I don't strive for better is that I don't have the time to play for hours every night and all day on weekends (adulting can be way over-rated at times).

My main issue is weapons. I play ranged characters and staff, bow and daggers has just gotten boring. They need some new ideas like, wand/scepter/focus/orbs type items or spell books or cross bows. I'm NOT saying they need these particular weapon types I'm just saying new weapons in general.

Don't get me wrong I still love the ES/ESO world but when the mag-warden and mag-necro came out you still use a destruction staff

Susinok1

OP really articulated my feelings on the constant changes. I normally look forward to a DLC coming out. I love to head to a new dungeon to experience it.

But this time around I just don't care anymore. With the U35 changes, it's the last straw in terms of changes for me. I have zero motivation to log on anymore, and did very little reading up on the two new DLC dungeons.

What a slap in the face to the content development team. U35 changes have overshadowed what should be a wonderful new experience for everyone. We're supposed to be excited about it. Most of us dread today's updates, and may of my friends have already left the game. I'm on my last legs as well.

I'm not an end game player, but worked super hard to get to the 80K DPS that I have. I've worked super hard on learning the mechanics, too. I'm not just about bypassing it through DPS. But now, I just don't give a crap.

Sockermannen

i’m also very unhappy with these changes.
i get wanting to pursue balance in your online game, but the amount of time i’ve seen these kinds of changes makes me believe that the combat team just shakes things up for the sake of fun without having any idea of the effects on the actual game (take week 1 of patch notes for example).

changes like these are why i no longer recommend ESO to people who ask me for good MMOs. Because it sucks to start playing a game, you get a build going, you get stronger, and stronger, and stro… oops! your favourite build was nerfed, time to start from scratch. Better hurry up! it might happen again within 3 months or so.

i love this game, i really do, it carried me trough some of the darkest times of my life and i’m happy it’s still here. It’s just so disheartening when patch notes like these are released, friends quit because they are sick of the changes, i had a decently sized low tier prog guild that is now disbanded. The friends i have left are either holding out hope for better times or just waiting for their eso+ to end before getting of the game.

Faltasë

Yeah so it seems as though they still released the patch(unsurprisingly) after all the complaints.

I also noticed some lies on the final U35 patch notes (such as the 20% increase in restoration staff restoration, but those numbers don't represent that increase)

They did not listen to your frustrations, or anyone elses frustrations. The DoTs are all over the place now still, worse than pre-u35 DoTs. I mean we literally now have 10, 15, 20, 60, 30 second timers... This makes rotations awful.

They also still gutted Warden entirely, goodbye anyone wanting Warden to have a viable MagDPS.

I don't have the breath or the motivation, or even the hope anymore to participate in this game. I quit a couple weeks ago, hoping things would change enough to come back. I was wrong.

I will see you all in Ashes of Creation in a few years. Bye.

Ragnarok0130

psychotrip wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Faltasë Thanks for your feedback here. We felt it was important to address the commentary around "anecdotal feedback" quote as this was specifically mentioned in official communication.

Faltasë wrote: »

I know this may seem like a moot point to make but could we get some communication from the team on the antagonistic acknowledgments from the developers? Like, it does seem relatively bad that forum moderators are able to tell us to not bait, be disrespectful... Gilliam (saying that they don't consider anecdotal feedback, and where the tone of that specific post was passive aggressive in its own right)

(Abbreviated to highlight core comment being referenced)

The comment was not meant to be antagonistic. It was meant to clarify what feedback would be helpful for the dev team and nothing more. So for example, feedback with player data from PTS or clearly explaining situations in which combat changes would positively or negatively impact play experience are what the team was looking for.

Other feedback like (and this is just a mock example), "These changes are garbage and do you even play the game?", are not what the dev team is looking for when asking for feedback. While that kind of feedback expresses player sentiment, it does not help the team in providing feedback they can work off of to address concerns. So the note on anecdotal feedback was more so to address comments like that. Not to antagonize anyone. However, given the feedback around the rhetoric, we will keep that in mind as a team going forward in communication.

Lastly, we want to touch on this line here:

Faltasë wrote: »

Like, it does seem relatively bad that forum moderators are able to tell us to not bait, be disrespectful...does the exact same thing with no consequences and indirectly causing a good chunk of the player base to devalue solid criticisms with "whining children".

(Abbreviated to complete core sentence without the quotes referenced.)

As Forum Manager, I feel obligated to answer this one specifically for moderation purposes. First, I want to make it clear that we do not perceive you as "whiny children".

Second, I understand the comment was perceived as being antagonistic, however trying to match the perceived antagonizing commentary with additional antagonizing commentary does not help general communication. I understand the community concern around the U35 combat changes but we will not tolerate baiting or bashing, especially to the dev team, as a player response to deal a consequence. Certainly not on the forum.

So where does this leave us? I encourage you to question or ask for clarification when you see something as antagonistic, much like @Faltasë has. This was a respectful way to question and ask for motivation around word usage and general commentary. So thank you for asking the question. Most of the time, these situations can be cleared up though general questions rather than acting on the assumption of ill intent. There are ways to be critical of choices without berating members of the team. That will also aid in avoiding getting actioned on the forum. The whole point is to create an open place where positive and negative sentiment can be shared and communication can be had. As noted earlier, we will be more vigilant with our rhetoric as well to help this point.

To close, sorry for the long answer, but hopefully this helps to provide some context regarding the "anecdotal feedback" quote. Thanks all for the continued feedback.

Appreciate the feedback, Kevin. Seeing actual candor is a pleasant surprise. My thoughts are as follows.

Part 1: Regarding your mock-up statement.
First - the comment you mocked up is still important feedback, and very likely how many people feel right now. What do you expect from players when we keep saying one thing and you guys keep doing the opposite? With this update it's not about numbers. It's about an overwhelmingly unwanted change being forced through a 5 week PTS cycle. I appreciate that Gilliam needs data to make better decisions, but the whole effort seems to be contrary to what the community is saying en masse - we don't want it.

Second - asking if a developer plays their game is an important question, too. Especially if their approach is based on data rather than how a change feels. If a developer comes out the gate with a baffling change, how are we not supposed to feel like there's a disconnect? How can we respectfully say someone (or their idea) is out of touch, especially when it needs to be said? Sometimes people get lost in their own ideas and they need to be shown that.

Third - Sweeping changes need more time so we can better test it against whatever the stated goal is - if it's stated at all. And if you guys can't articulate what your goals actually are beyond something vague like "increase accessibility", how are we supposed to feel like it's anything but your mock-up comment? You guys are making massive changes, we want to see them played by you before it impacts the game we all love. If it's so great, and absolutely must launch, then show us. Play test it. Do a vet trial with your changes in front of the community. We deserve that at the very least.

Part 2: ZOS's Rhetoric and Reception
I'm happy you guys are considering how your comments land. I just hope it goes beyond Gilliam, because I feel like it's deeper. While Gilliam's quote was a little off-mark, I don't think it's as bad as the antagonism I've seen from Rich. This whole PTS cycle started on a sour note - the tweet from Rich - sardonically asking us for trust only for us to be right and you guys having to backtrack on half the changes proposed. That tweet cemented that he views us as "whiny children". I know his directives impact how the forum is managed because he's said as much on his streams. So while you say we're not seen that way, the evidence is quite the opposite. To date, ZOS has done nothing that directly addressed the fallout from that tweet. You've stated yourself that responding in kind to antagonism doesn't help the conversation - so why is that coming from Rich at the start of this PTS? That did nothing but prime us to be upset by something like what Gilliam said.

I get that ZOS devs don't want to feel disrespected but ZOS can't lead with ambiguous announcements, sardonic tweets, "we see your feedback but we're moving ahead anyways", couple that with radio silence on major threads, and then edit our words and not expect people to not be absolutely fuming mad. You guys are creating that cycle.

ZOS needs to be more responsive and reflective in general. Case in point, this thread here. Players are asking Gina to follow up on a thread she's already commented on, and we're not getting any clarification on what seems to be a major gap. So even when we do follow your advice, the result is the same - crickets. Her as a community manager especially, should anticipate that a one-liner is going to generate more questions than answers. It's hard to not infer ill-intent or negligence. We'd all love to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt, but we can't anymore.

Part 3: Closing thoughts:
Can you elaborate on what ZOS is doing to make these forums more welcoming and meaningful for the people here? Why would I come here vs Reddit? I think the general expectation is that there's a chance for development interaction, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Hoping you can clear that up.

I hope you take the time to answer the hard questions I've asked here Kevin. I do appreciate some of the changes made in response to some PTS feedback. I just wish there were more dialogue other than damage control here.

@ZOS_Kevin Can you respond to my points please? I've bolded the points I'm still looking for answers on.

...Do you really expect him to?

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the One Tamriel model is responsible for a lot of the dissatisfaction in overland difficulty.

One Tamriel saved this game.

Agreed but its implementation leaves a lot to be desired. SWTOR isnt an mmo I always reference positively, but they made the world level with you as well.

The game feels less repetitive though because there's 5 different tiers of elite enemies at all levels. No matter what planet you're on there's ALWAYS a difficulty variation depending on where you decide to explore and what you're fighting. A jedi or a mandalorian feel VERY different from a gang of bandits.

The game was also built from the ground up to be a power fantasy, so running across hordes of trash mobs actually feels like a fun, intended change of pace, as opposed to a boring slog.

I havent played SWTOR in years so I dont know if it still plays like this, but its a MUCH better way to handle things than how ESO does it.

SWTOR later did the same thing as ESO did with One Tamriel when originally you did outlevel planets in SWTOR like ESO did before One Tamriel.

Hymzir

Got nothing really to add.

In fact, I only signed in to give OP an Agree.

The wild swings of wrecking ball balancing have ruined the game.

However, I don't think pointing it out will do a lick of difference.

At the end of the day ZOS will do what ZOS wants, cause that is how ZOS rolls.

And I don't think that it's going to change, hence I only play couple of times per month now. I prefer to spend my free time with games where base mechanics aren't rewritten every three months.

Korinth

Hymzir wrote: »

And I don't think that it's going to change, hence I only play couple of times per month now. I prefer to spend my free time with games where base mechanics aren't rewritten every three months.

Same here...Beta player and I may log in long enough to get rewards and go play something else.

I gave up chasing the meta in order to stay with my trials guild. Because I have a family and actually WORK for a living, I dont have hours every evening and all weekend to chase down the new BiS gear. Because I dont have the newest BiS gear my dps suffers. Sure I can spend hours on a target dummy and tweak my rotation...sure you dont have to have BiS to do the damage needed (well before U35 release anyway) to stay in a vet trial group.

But I just dont have time to bother with it anymore. Hence the game has become boring....You grind like hell to get at least Normal Trial BiS sets...then in 3 months they are no longer BiS or even viable in some cases.

Necrotech_Master

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if you were talking about people swapping toons and joining another alliance in the campaign, thats no different than it is today, and just makes it very annoying in grey host

I run AD normally in that campaign, but mistakenly went in on another alt recently and now I am locked out for about 3 more weeks. Quite annoying.

one reason i like having all my toons as AD, one less thing i have to worry about with grey host lol

heaven13

@Chadak your comment is so spot on and I've snipped it to keep! That's how I felt about U33 (especially seeing so many of the pro-AwA players admitting they have moved on since getting their global achieves) to now this. We get so many changes that then have to be reverted or fixed in the next patch cycle or two and it's just SO exhausting.

Lapin_Logic

Vylaera wrote: »

I don't play ESO to meta chase, I don't play ESO to scorepush in competitive PvE, - admittedly I do PvP, however - but I'm not the type that finds the endgame really fun, and I was comfortable with my 50k dps that I could pull on a trial dummy which sufficed for most vet DLC dungeons
....Trial content exists for people who meta chase and power game. And they should have their end of the game left unmolested. That is what they find fun. That's not what casual players find fun. Not being able to do trials with our roleplay builds is not the contention casual fans have with the game. We do not want the endgame community to be kneecapped and treated like class enemies

Firstly and foremost ESO is a Game, Just because 8 years of unchecked "Advancement" has led to "End Game" being sealed behind a velvet rope in the VIP lounge where only the "1%" can attend doesn't mean "This is how an elder scrolls game should be"

I have seen Spoon Only completions of Skyrim, it because Elder Scrolls has always been a RP nonsense Paradice.

If You are fine with your 50k DPS on a completely random build then congratulations, that is what the Elder scrolls is all about, being still able to complete the content regardless of your build or level, congratulations you do not need to do anything to continue doing the same 50k DPS you did before.

All that has happened is the devs have "Normalised" the Elder scrolls part of Elder Scrolls online, The score pushers will still push score and everyone will wear Relequen and be happy, the only difference is that you might have an "adventure" with your character and not be a burden (or kicked immediately) and they won't have to spend 2 hours in Craglorn going "LF 2H 1T VCR"

Odd this is a necro thread about a patch that hadn't even come out but these are the times we live.

Sallymen

(Disclaimer before I post, this is not a post to bait or to troll, I have been playing this game since 2016 and just like the OP of this post I am very frustrated with the state of this game as well and how the current ESO dev team has handled not only the changes with the game but how they treat the player base.)
With the official release of update 35...

Yeah something or someone messed up. I have friend that are healer mains who are absolutely devastated that they cannot heal as much damage as they should. The fear of being replaced in groups where it would be more beneficial to have another DPS. Not to mention that DPS has been shafted into the ground with no apparent rhyme or reason.

All in purpose of "Accessibility."

Where is the accessibility? If the ZoS team wants to achieve what they wanted, the only way to do it is adjust in-game mechanics. Below are examples of dungeon mechanics that makes it significantly difficult with those with accessibility issues:

Hearing disabilities aka Audio Cues
-Falkreath Hold, "Grovel Mechanic" Domihaus boss fight.
-Depths of Malatar, "Split image" King Narilmor

Color Blindness, visual disabilities:
-Depths of Malatar, orbs colors and auroran colors.
-Lair of Maarselok, "Seed mechanic" Final ad packs and final boss
-March of Sacrifice, "Lurcher Seasons Mechanic" Spriggan boss
-Graven Depth, "Soul Search mechanic" final boss (How in the world did this get out of the PTS? The colors blend with the environment.)

"Hand-eye movement disabilities:"
-Jump puzzles (Secret boss in Unhallowed Grave, activating 3rd secret boss in Earthen Root Enclave)
-Moongrave Fane, heavy attacking boxes and hemolets at the right direction while avoiding mechanics (And the box mechanics have been broken since U32)
-Anything that involves combat with jumping, (Frostvault lasers - Another thing to add that the centurion's shield to avoid lasers is still broken since U32 as well - Final HM boss of Coral Aerie)
-Stacking on another moving player, Shipwright's Regret 1st HM

Above are just a handful of examples that still make the game inaccessible with those with accessibility issues. No amount of combat changes or nerfing will ever do to change it. I do not mean to offend or to start an argument but these combat changes to lower damage and increase some ability duration does not make the game accessible. This is not a knee-jerk reaction, nor "anecdotal data" this is a player's experience of playing this game since 2016 and witnessing all of it's changes over the years.

lillfox

ESO already has a reputation for horrible PvP gameplay.
With the frequent points resets, as a lower level, I welcomed the free opportunity to try a different build.
Now, I go to do something, and wonder why I'm not hitting anything, and find that everything's been set back to 0.
I am also a casual player, but when I go out to gather survey writs, I still need to defend myself.

lillfox

Ah, I was distracted when typing that out, and didn't give complete thoughts.
I wanted to add that with this update, it seems that the rest of the combat platform has collapsed. Newer players need to feel just as competent in combat as that top 5% does. And we need to be able to function with no points at all in the CP tree, like being able to kill those two bugs at the fibers nodes in Vvardenfel

FlopsyPrince

lillfox wrote: »

ESO already has a reputation for horrible PvP gameplay.
With the frequent points resets, as a lower level, I welcomed the free opportunity to try a different build.
Now, I go to do something, and wonder why I'm not hitting anything, and find that everything's been set back to 0.
I am also a casual player, but when I go out to gather survey writs, I still need to defend myself.

Gathering survey writs is another area that needs some QoL TLC. It sucks up too much time now and resets are not always intuitive now. That can and should have been simplified a long time ago.

They would have generated a lot of appreciation from many of us, in spite of things like this patch and even the time some of us see as wasted on the card game, if they did that. Even slowly putting out quality of life changes can provide great benefits and thus positive impact!

psychotrip

Razakel13 wrote: »

I stopped playing after the account-wide achievements changes (I know some or maybe even a lot of people liked those changes, and I respect that, but I didn't, and it was enough for me to stop playing - I don't mean to rekindle that debate here as it became totally circular). I had already been playing FFXIV for a while and am quite happy to stay in Eorzea for my MMO fix. Its story affected me in ways I didn't know a videogame could, there's really not a single gameplay system I'm not satisfied with, and it feels like the devs are in touch with what the community wants.

However, like OP, I'm also a diehard singleplayer Elder Scrolls fan with thousands of hours each on Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, going back 20 years. I love Tamriel with all of my heart and then some. I think about reinstalling this game constantly and keep a very close eye on news, the forums and the subreddit. And I suspect there are a lot of people like me. I would uninstall FFXIV in a heartbeat and never even think about it again if I felt any effort at all was being spent on keeping Elder Scrolls Online alive and feeling fresh - particularly the overland content, which given the quality of the world design, SHOULD be this game's biggest strength. Admittedly, that's just my opinion. Everyone has different opinions of what this game should be about - PVP, overland, dungeons, trials, trading. But we're definitely all united by the fact that we feel that our favorite aspect of the game needs some love (traders might be happy, idk). But instead, it's a never-ending barrage of changes that were obviously going to be unpopular, with no apparent vision behind them.

It's such a huge shame because ESO still has so much untapped potential to be a goldmine for ZOS. I'm not even talking about lootbox whales - just from the recognition of the Elder Scrolls name and with better word of mouth from fans who are actually happy, this game could and should be crushing FFXIV at the WoW-killing game, but it just seems to stubbornly refuse to compete. I can't express how frustrating it is to watch, update after update, as nothing really changes.

As for what's specifically happening right now - I'm sure some people would consider me a filthy casual for this, and that's fine, I'll admit it - I've always thought that weaving just needs to go entirely. It feels awkward, it looks ugly, and it's obviously a bug that ZOS was too embarrassed to fix that has since become endemic to how the game is both balanced and played. Lowering DPS across the board and saying "look guys, we fixed weaving!" doesn't actually solve that problem, and it certainly doesn't make anyone happy. I'm too antisocial for high-end content, but I did enjoy soloing dungeons, and I don't know if that would even be possible now. This isn't even a bandaid fix for a bad combat system, it's more like taking a sledgehammer to an already-very-wobbly house of cards. And I don't have any way to know why they thought this would be a good idea, but I can only assume someone looked a spreadsheet and wanted to change it without taking the time to understand WHY.

IF, however, ZOS were to take time out to INVEST in this game for once, and redesign the combat system from the ground up to be engaging to both casual and hardcore players, then a significant rework could be popular. But that's a gamble that ZOS won't take (I am desperate to be wrong - please prove me wrong, ZOS). It's arguable that changes of the magnitude that are probably necessary to keep this game alive are too much of a risk this deep in the game's life cycle, and I think ZOS knows that. So instead it'll just keep stagnating like this, with occasional sledgehammer-balance changes that don't really address any core issues and just upset people even more, but the game will stick around because MTX keeps it profitable I guess? I don't comprehend that side of things. Point is, the hole ZOS has dug ESO into is probably just too deep now, and that's more than a little heartbreaking.

I don't really know where I'm going with this anymore, I just needed to get it out. In an attempt to coherently wrap up, I guess I would ask if there's anything the community can really do other than make sad doom-n'-gloom forum posts, because that's all I've got.

I'm in a similar boat as you, so trust me you're not alone here.

I quit the game (for the first time) after finding some glaring lore consistency issues in the AD quests. Since then I pop back in every few years, but mostly just for overland and exploration. I've long since accepted that the ES universe I grew up with is dead, and that the tone and lore has shifted to be almost its own separate story, but I'm still grumpy about it at times : P

But yeah, as the gameplay gets sloppier, and the storytelling lazier, I find myself coming back less and less. I've been playing FF like most of us ex-fans, and I've even been dabbling in a really cool WoW vanilla rp server. With the memories of the old game becoming less relevent to me, and the current games not living up to them in my eyes, I find that I have less reason to come back then ever. This update might be the final nail in the coffin for me.

PS: as for what we can do? Not much unless ZOS is willing to change, and as long as they're making a profit they have no reason to. They certainly dont value the opinions of players like me. If anything they've shown nothing but disdain for us.