Nocturnals Ploy Poll

Digibrax

Does this set remove Oakensoul ring buffs? xD
Never mind I am blind, it says that it removes buffs with durations. That means permanent buffs are safe. It would be funny if it could remove permanent buffs also

Vaoh

Digibrax wrote: »

Does this set remove Oakensoul ring buffs? xD
Never mind I am blind, it says that it removes buffs with durations. That means permanent buffs are safe. It would be funny if it could remove permanent buffs also

So this new powerful PvP set is indirectly an Oakensoul buff lol 😂 since you don’t have to worry about your essential buffs being deleted, and also people running it will waste a full set bonus when against you

TechMaybeHic

Vaoh wrote: »

Digibrax wrote: »

Does this set remove Oakensoul ring buffs? xD
Never mind I am blind, it says that it removes buffs with durations. That means permanent buffs are safe. It would be funny if it could remove permanent buffs also

So this new powerful PvP set is indirectly an Oakensoul buff lol 😂 since you don’t have to worry about your essential buffs being deleted, and also people running it will waste a full set bonus when against you

Except then, the most likely buff for it to remove would be your potion buffs

Digibrax

How does Corrupting Pollen work with this set? It has major and minor debuff. Does it apply both at the same time?
That would be great for my pvp healer

jaws343

Holycannoli wrote: »

Guess I'll be running Oakensoul and Nocturnal's Ploy. Gonna have to pair it with a debuffing set too for maximum lulz.

Oaken, Ploy, and maybe Plaguebreak or Dark Convergence.

I like the idea of convergence personally.

You hit them with Weakness to elements, then drop the ground AOE. Hopefully you have stripped their armor buff, and then DC pulls them in before they can rebuff, and if you did hit them with the armor buff, you are getting 11K pen on them with that DC proc. Going to wreck people.

But, PB also provides a counter to them purging your debuffs.

Could also go with Kynmarch too, but not sure if those debuffs will work with Ploy, but, at the very least, they will be stronger when they aren't having to counter a buff because you stripped it from your opponent.

Jaraal

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It is single target, but this is going to be terrible for everybody except groups that mass buff each other.

Yep, and you can bet ball groups are cackling with glee at the thought of burning down solo zergs with it.

Tevalicious

Jaraal wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It is single target, but this is going to be terrible for everybody except groups that mass buff each other.

Yep, and you can bet ball groups are cackling with glee at the thought of burning down solo zergs with it.

No groups that I know of are talking about it. Its so random that its not really worth the slot. There are better debuff sets out there.

Holycannoli

Vaoh wrote: »

Digibrax wrote: »

Does this set remove Oakensoul ring buffs? xD
Never mind I am blind, it says that it removes buffs with durations. That means permanent buffs are safe. It would be funny if it could remove permanent buffs also

So this new powerful PvP set is indirectly an Oakensoul buff lol 😂 since you don’t have to worry about your essential buffs being deleted, and also people running it will waste a full set bonus when against you

Yes you're going to want to wear Oakensoul to keep your buffs (most of them) and Nocturnal's Ploy to punish anyone not wearing with it.

And someone thought this set was a good idea lol.

Aquelarre

This set can be one of the best tools out there, I don't understand where is the negative side of it. Isn’t buffing and re-applying skills every few seconds the complexity of our combat? 😂😂😂

WreckfulAbandon

Aquelarre wrote: »

This set can be one of the best tools out there, I don't understand where is the negative side of it. Isn’t buffing and re-applying skills every few seconds the complexity of our combat? 😂😂😂

Yeah I dont see a problem here!

You can use a skill every second and only have to reapply buffs every 2 seconds so what the problem? 💀

AndreNoir

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Aquelarre wrote: »

This set can be one of the best tools out there, I don't understand where is the negative side of it. Isn’t buffing and re-applying skills every few seconds the complexity of our combat? 😂😂😂

Yeah I dont see a problem here!

You can use a skill every second and only have to reapply buffs every 2 seconds so what the problem? 💀

So when someone can delete up to 5 of my debuffs in one gcd every second - it's fine? But when someone can remove up to 2 buffs every 2 seconds - it's nightmare, right ?

Elo106

They buffed duration of buffs, hots and dots so "people can focus more on combat" and in the very same patch add this OP set that will have you watching your buffs having to recast them more than before.

Not to mention how deleting your potion buffs that you can only apply every 45 secs will be a problem.

TechMaybeHic

It's funny because the 2-second cooldown lines up with the globals to if the target rebuffs after seeing it drop, spends 1 second, and then you are at 2 when the debuff hits again. I guess by doing 2 seconds they are saying they want less buffs on players so just ignore it and keep fighting rather than rebuff, but it heavily then favors running this set over anything else.

Holycannoli

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It's funny because the 2-second cooldown lines up with the globals to if the target rebuffs after seeing it drop, spends 1 second, and then you are at 2 when the debuff hits again. I guess by doing 2 seconds they are saying they want less buffs on players so just ignore it and keep fighting rather than rebuff, but it heavily then favors running this set over anything else.

Yeah it's seeming like this set is a veiled attempt to help server performance because over the years they've introduced way too many things to keep track of in PvP. The other changes accomplish the same thing, like DoTs only firing every 2 seconds.

katorga

Holycannoli wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Digibrax wrote: »

Does this set remove Oakensoul ring buffs? xD
Never mind I am blind, it says that it removes buffs with durations. That means permanent buffs are safe. It would be funny if it could remove permanent buffs also

So this new powerful PvP set is indirectly an Oakensoul buff lol 😂 since you don’t have to worry about your essential buffs being deleted, and also people running it will waste a full set bonus when against you

Yes you're going to want to wear Oakensoul to keep your buffs (most of them) and Nocturnal's Ploy to punish anyone not wearing with it.

And someone thought this set was a good idea lol.

How is that different from using a crit resistance set to punish the players who use crit builds?

Or using Plaguebreak to punish purgers?

And so on. It just adds more randomness to PVP, and keeps the rock papers scissors meme going.

StarOfElyon

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Yes, I am biased. We all are. I dont like this set and neither should you.



Will you still PvP if other players can remove Major and Minor buffs at will?

No. Applying debuffs is one thing, stripping players of buffs is a step too far.

Debuffing with major breach will give 5k pen but if you're able to also remove their major resolve at the same time it becomes 10k pen. That's INSANE. What other set can give you 10k pen that doesn't require an ultimate being used? This is one of my frustrations with the devs; they're wildly inconsistent with their standards and every patch they introduce an item set that is OBVIOUSLY BROKEN. And when they are warned, they IGNORE our warnings only to later (in another patch) scale the power back.

Crimson was too much.
Malacath
Dark Convergence was too much (and should be deleted still)
Brokensoul was too much (for PvP)
Plague Break
Hrothgar's Chill

The list of sets with "obscene" damage or toxic abilities introduced and the warnings gone ignored grows with every patch.

jaws343

Looks like, with the week 3 PTS, Nocturnal in its current state is the way it will be. Prepare to either run Oakensoul or constantly reapply buffs next patch.

Oakenaxe

StarOfElyon wrote: »

This is one of my frustrations with the devs; they're wildly inconsistent with their standards and every patch they introduce an item set that is OBVIOUSLY BROKEN. And when they are warned, they IGNORE our warnings only to later (in another patch) scale the power back.

This.

AndreNoir

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Debuffing with major breach will give 5k pen but if you're able to also remove their major resolve at the same time it becomes 10k pen. That's INSANE. What other set can give you 10k pen that doesn't require an ultimate being used?

The set doesn't gives 10k penetration itself, no need to lie. It doesn't even gives 5k. Those 5k that not from breach can be found nowadays on Suhn for example

jaws343

AndreNoir wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Debuffing with major breach will give 5k pen but if you're able to also remove their major resolve at the same time it becomes 10k pen. That's INSANE. What other set can give you 10k pen that doesn't require an ultimate being used?

The set doesn't gives 10k penetration itself, no need to lie. It doesn't even gives 5k. Those 5k that not from breach can be found nowadays on Suhn for example

It is an effective 10K pen from a skill that will be a common application to proc the set's effects.

So yeah, the set itself doesn't give you 12k pen, but it does enable it. Major Breach from Ele draing, that has a shot at removing your opponents Major Resolve. You have to take into account both things here. The removal of Major Resolve and the application of Major Breach. A player not running this can only apply Major Breach, which negates (not removes) Resolve.

And Stuhn's is nowhere near as strong. Not even close. Requires off balance, and only provides 5300 pen.

Even so, you can run this + stuhn's for even more pen.

Casul

Chudan, rattlecage, nocturnal ploy.

Embrace the chaos.

Make sure you slot flare for the major protection.

Holycannoli

BuildMan wrote: »

Chudan, rattlecage, nocturnal ploy.

Embrace the chaos.

Make sure you slot flare for the major protection.

Or Oakensoul in place of those two sets and something like Night Mother's Gaze. Depends on how many major and minor debuffs you can apply with direct damage with just your skills, and if NMG even works with Nocturnal's Ploy.

Holycannoli

katorga wrote: »

How is that different from using a crit resistance set to punish the players who use crit builds?

Or using Plaguebreak to punish purgers?

And so on. It just adds more randomness to PVP, and keeps the rock papers scissors meme going.

Never said it was different. If you aren't wearing Oakensoul or a set that gives a permanent major or minor buff you're screwing yourself over. Wear Nocturnal's with Oakensoul and your buffs are totally safe while theirs are potentially not safe.

It's not a good thing but we either do it until they change it (or if they change it) or we suffer.

xDeusEJRx

How I imagine zos planned this behind the scenes

Casul

Holycannoli wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Chudan, rattlecage, nocturnal ploy.

Embrace the chaos.

Make sure you slot flare for the major protection.

Or Oakensoul in place of those two sets and something like Night Mother's Gaze. Depends on how many major and minor debuffs you can apply with direct damage with just your skills, and if NMG even works with Nocturnal's Ploy.

Poor man's build, you think I actually give them expansion money anymore?

WreckfulAbandon

AndreNoir wrote: »

So when someone can delete up to 5 of my debuffs in one gcd every second - it's fine? But when someone can remove up to 2 buffs every 2 seconds - it's nightmare, right ?

Yes its reasonable to have counterplay to debuffs that opponents put on you. If someone is removing 5 debuffs per second (unlikely unless you highly outnumber them which says a lot about your mentality) they are spending a good deal of magicka to do that, aside from Necros where it costs health instead. Nocturnals removes buffs that you put on yourself FOR FREE, EVERY 2 SECONDS. If you still dont agree then dont bother responding its been explained well enough already by everyone.

WreckfulAbandon

And on another note, it looks like this set is going to make it to live with the 2 second duration. Expressing my true feelings will result in disciplinary action by the mods but suffice to say this is a GARBAGE DECISION by the combat team. If anyone knows of combat team members who actually PvP feel free to message me some @ names. Revenge if possible will have to be obtained in game during MYM.

Sluggy

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

And on another note, it looks like this set is going to make it to live with the 2 second duration. Expressing my true feelings will result in disciplinary action by the mods but suffice to say this is a GARBAGE DECISION by the combat team. If anyone knows of combat team members who actually PvP feel free to message me some @ names. Revenge if possible will have to be obtained in game during MYM.

I too originally thought this was oversight by a team that spends basically no time in Cyrodiil. But the more I thought about it the more I became convinced it was a push by management. I'm not going to mince words here: Many hardcore PvPers are notorious for not caring about chapter content. Many will purchase it only if there is some gear that will help them in PvP. Even then you likely won't get all of them to purchase it. This looks like a clever ploy to simultaneously 'nerf' oakensoul, claim that they made adjustments for fairness and at the same time push the need for the item even more.

I guess I could be wrong here. Who's to say? But if that were the case this is a tone-deaf decision on the devs part and clearly shows a lack of care, time, or effort given to pvp-content. Either choice is a viable one. Neither paints a good picture.

Tommy_The_Gun

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

"just run Oakensoul lol"

Either this, or move to no cp / no proc . But even if someone would run Oaken, then you will still lose expedition buff for example and in many cases this means certain death...

TechMaybeHic

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

"just run Oakensoul lol"

Either this, or move to no cp / no proc . But even if someone would run Oaken, then you will still lose expedition buff for example and in many cases this means certain death...

Or with so many other buffs not removable, the potion buff is higher chance of being removed.