Tales of Tribute needs a proper option to resign with no penalty

NeKryXe

Tales of Tribute needs an option to resign that ALWAYS counts as a victory to the opponent and doesn't add a penalty to any player.

Put a button on the board or something for a player to resign with no penalty, or, at least, do not allow a player to resign in anyway once someone reaches 30 prestige.

As it is now, the resign counts as a loss for both players and both are penalized: The winner loses the victory and the loser gets a time delay. This is insane, it doesn't make any sense.

This has been reported for weeks and needs a URGENT fix!!!

cyclonus11

I had a strange occurrence the other day.

I was in the middle of my turn, when suddenly I won. I got the victory banner and everything. It showed like 23-30 prestige score (my opponent had the 30). Nobody had a Patron advantage.

The win counted - I got the purple reward box and the appropriate amount of rank and experience points - all rewards were as if it was a normal win. It also counted toward the Dueling Tributes daily quest.

I was in the middle of executing a Toss and even had to close that window to accept the victory.

Is there a legit way to concede? Not sure what happened or how they did it...

redspecter23

Resigning at any point in the game should not come with any extra penalties for either player. It is a completely legitimate way to end a game and I can't understand why it would be frowned upon in any sort of way. If a player wishes to end the game for any reason, they should always have the ability to do so and personally incur all the standard penalties that come with a loss. The winner should also receive all the benefits that would normally come with a win.

If this means some players immediately concede at the start of a match, so be it. I don't see how it could be manipulated in any exploitable way in a system with a matchmaking queue. Players should always have the ability to concede and it should always count as a standard loss for that player and a win for their opponent.

spartaxoxo

There should be a time penalty so that spamming resign on the first draw when it don't go your way doesn't result in a player who only spends meaningful game time on a win. Part of your rank is determined by how many matches you are winning, so being able to squeeze in more matches than someone who tries would be a way to rank past them otherwise.

AnduinTryggva

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There should be a time penalty so that spamming resign on the first draw when it don't go your way doesn't result in a player who only spends meaningful game time on a win. Part of your rank is determined by how many matches you are winning, so being able to squeeze in more matches than someone who tries would be a way to rank past them otherwise.

The solution is simple: Drop the number of win/loose from rank evaluation.

And yes, we need a resign button without penalty. Of course a threshold should be put up. For instance if opponent is leading with let's say 15 points prestige you can resign without penalty.

Veryamedliel

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Is there a legit way to concede? Not sure what happened or how they did it...

There isn't. Most likely your opponent just DC-ed or quit the game. You won, and he got the penalty for leaving the match.

I agree there should to be a way to legitimately concede the game without penalties. Sometimes RNJebus just isn't kind towards you and you know there's almost no way you can catch up with your opponent. It happens. But to allow so without restrictions would lead to abuse. Perhaps a 20 point prestige difference or perhaps at least 1 player should reach X prestige would be reason enough? That way the game has to be played before you can concede. I'm sure the devs can find the sweet spot better than I can. But it should be there.

kwinter

I have noticed a delay sometimes in getting rewarded points for winning a match that can be 5 or more minutes.

NeKryXe

kwinter wrote: »

I have noticed a delay sometimes in getting rewarded points for winning a match that can be 5 or more minutes.

Thats not the problem. I think that I always received the rewards. But the victory doesn't count on the daily quest. So, instead of winning 3 times to get 3 rewards, sometimes you need to win 30 times if the opponents keep resigning. It's an absolute non sense.

NeKryXe

kwinter wrote: »

I have noticed a delay sometimes in getting rewarded points for winning a match that can be 5 or more minutes.

I'm talking about this:



This happened right now and it's happening all the time. I played 2 games today, won both and none counted as a victory. I think that at this point more than 50% of the players resign after the opponent reached 35 prestige, so no one wins. It's a tie, when you resign.

Vaoh

If a player concedes it should be no different than a full loss. This means:
1. The conceding player loses and has their loss “penalty”, such as losing points on the leaderboard.
2. The other player wins and gets their win “reward”, such as gaining points on the leaderboard and having a victory for your daily quest.

They should also look into small/non-gamebreaking preventative measures against boosting, such as making it so players cannot engage in more than 2-3 competitve ranked matches against the same opponent in the same day. Or at least so you can’t matchmake in that day against a player you already had defeated twice (so if it’s back and forth win/loss, you can keep dueling).

Heartrage

redspecter23 wrote: »

Resigning at any point in the game should not come with any extra penalties for either player. It is a completely legitimate way to end a game and I can't understand why it would be frowned upon in any sort of way. If a player wishes to end the game for any reason, they should always have the ability to do so and personally incur all the standard penalties that come with a loss. The winner should also receive all the benefits that would normally come with a win.

If this means some players immediately concede at the start of a match, so be it. I don't see how it could be manipulated in any exploitable way in a system with a matchmaking queue. Players should always have the ability to concede and it should always count as a standard loss for that player and a win for their opponent.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the conceding system needs revision however, the ability to concede early could potentially be used to farm tributes defeat rewards. I think one of the worst thing that could happen to the game would be if the most efficient way of farming something was to get into tribute games and automatically concede.

NeKryXe

Heartrage wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Resigning at any point in the game should not come with any extra penalties for either player. It is a completely legitimate way to end a game and I can't understand why it would be frowned upon in any sort of way. If a player wishes to end the game for any reason, they should always have the ability to do so and personally incur all the standard penalties that come with a loss. The winner should also receive all the benefits that would normally come with a win.

If this means some players immediately concede at the start of a match, so be it. I don't see how it could be manipulated in any exploitable way in a system with a matchmaking queue. Players should always have the ability to concede and it should always count as a standard loss for that player and a win for their opponent.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the conceding system needs revision however, the ability to concede early could potentially be used to farm tributes defeat rewards. I think one of the worst thing that could happen to the game would be if the most efficient way of farming something was to get into tribute games and automatically concede.

So... they can keep the penalty for the player who resigns and always give the victory to the player that remains. But there's a better option... they could allow always a player to resign, but quitting shouldn't give any reward at all, nothing! The losing player should only receive the white reward if remained until the end. On the other side, the winner should always be rewarded.

darvaria

I have accidentally qued for TOT (thinking I qued BG). I can't get through a game with another player because they take so long. They wait the full 90 seconds. IBoth times I just leave and I give a win. IDC. I wish you could remove it as an option. I auto decline player invites.

redspecter23

Heartrage wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Resigning at any point in the game should not come with any extra penalties for either player. It is a completely legitimate way to end a game and I can't understand why it would be frowned upon in any sort of way. If a player wishes to end the game for any reason, they should always have the ability to do so and personally incur all the standard penalties that come with a loss. The winner should also receive all the benefits that would normally come with a win.

If this means some players immediately concede at the start of a match, so be it. I don't see how it could be manipulated in any exploitable way in a system with a matchmaking queue. Players should always have the ability to concede and it should always count as a standard loss for that player and a win for their opponent.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the conceding system needs revision however, the ability to concede early could potentially be used to farm tributes defeat rewards. I think one of the worst thing that could happen to the game would be if the most efficient way of farming something was to get into tribute games and automatically concede.

Fair enough. Perhaps tie the defeat reward to requiring X minutes of playtime. One could still concede immediately, but with no defeat reward. After say 5 minutes of gametime or maybe 5 full turns, one could concede and still receive the defeat rewards box.

Phil1001-Up

I played this game earlier today and as far as I can tell, my opponent resigned from the match as they didn't even touch the hour glass... the round just ended. I obtained a win and even the daily quest updated to reflect a win.

See what you think? This is on PS4 by the way.

https://imgur.com/a/iYe6Wbg

Necrotech_Master

NeKryXe wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Resigning at any point in the game should not come with any extra penalties for either player. It is a completely legitimate way to end a game and I can't understand why it would be frowned upon in any sort of way. If a player wishes to end the game for any reason, they should always have the ability to do so and personally incur all the standard penalties that come with a loss. The winner should also receive all the benefits that would normally come with a win.

If this means some players immediately concede at the start of a match, so be it. I don't see how it could be manipulated in any exploitable way in a system with a matchmaking queue. Players should always have the ability to concede and it should always count as a standard loss for that player and a win for their opponent.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the conceding system needs revision however, the ability to concede early could potentially be used to farm tributes defeat rewards. I think one of the worst thing that could happen to the game would be if the most efficient way of farming something was to get into tribute games and automatically concede.

So... they can keep the penalty for the player who resigns and always give the victory to the player that remains. But there's a better option... they could allow always a player to resign, but quitting shouldn't give any reward at all, nothing! The losing player should only receive the white reward if remained until the end. On the other side, the winner should always be rewarded.

at least against NPCs, you only get the white defeat box if you stay until the end, there are a few times i tried conceding to an NPC when i was not doing well and it gave no reward

NeKryXe

Cmon! Fix this damn thing!!! It's getting harder and harder to complete the ToT daily quest because most losers are quitting right after the opponent reaches 30 prestige. This is absolutely pathetic! When someone quits it should ALWAYS count as a victory to the opponent that remains.

Jofish

So no (useless) loser rewards for a conceded match. Rankings should be determined by the win/loss ratio not by number of wins.

Jofish

Actually, what is needed is a place where ALL the rules are written down in plain English so nobody has to guess what is going on. If such a place exists ZOS has not made it readily findable. Are they leaving it up to the not so trustworthy alternate websites?

Casdha

FYI, if Loremaster Celarus is the last patron to turn and I through out an agent and then fold my hand,,,,,, please take the hint. No reason for the game to last another 10 minutes.

Run of luck I had tonight with cards, it took me 4 hours to get 3 wins to complete my daily. I think that is the longest it ever took me. I couldn't get anything to hit on my turn but I sure freed up a lot of them for other players tonight. Your welcome for the easy wins.

Tuonra2

I have never had a Concede not count as a win, so I can't comment on what you say is happening to you.

But the concede should be a free function for sure. Not an arbitrary prestige differential to allow concede for free, that is obnoxious.
The 10m penalty right now is annoying, but most of you seem to not realize that if a game lasts long enough (8mins or so I think) then the concede is w/o penalty already. As others have said, the reason for the penalty is that losses give rewards you can farm and sell.

To me the solution is obvious, remove the time penalty from conceding initially and add it back in increasing amounts for conceding multiple matches before this 8min length in one day. In this way people who genuinely play to win and only concede very rarely when either the game is already going long or even less often when the opponent gets something like double ebony mine into a rally turn 1, these people will see no bans.
however people who concede to farm loot will get two boxes a day or so and any further boxes will take either 8 minutes each or 10 then 20 then 60mins etc.

This however is not as big an issue as the matchmaker not caring about ranks like I discussed here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/610812/ranked-matchmaking-suggestion#latest

NeKryXe

Tuonra2 wrote: »

I have never had a Concede not count as a win, so I can't comment on what you say is happening to you.

That's quite interesting. If that's true it means that not all players have this problem. But I can guarantee that you are the first one I read stating that. Even on my guilds no one is getting a victory counted on Dueling Tributes when the loser quits. On my account every single time an opponent resigned it never counted as a victory. Even now it's happening. Maybe it's an account problem. It's weird.

Anyway. A player that resigns shouldn't receive any reward at all, and it should count as a victory to the opponent in ALL accounts.

NeKryXe

And this keeps happening! Everybody resigns right in the end when losing and it DOESN'T COUNT AS A VICTORY. It's getting impossible to reach 40 prestige 3 times to complete 3 wins!!!

Austacker

NeKryXe wrote: »

Tales of Tribute needs an option to resign that ALWAYS counts as a victory to the opponent and doesn't add a penalty to any player.

Put a button on the board or something for a player to resign with no penalty, or, at least, do not allow a player to resign in anyway once someone reaches 30 prestige.

As it is now, the resign counts as a loss for both players and both are penalized: The winner loses the victory and the loser gets a time delay. This is insane, it doesn't make any sense.

This has been reported for weeks and needs a URGENT fix!!!

Do realise why this isn't a 'thing' in ToT?

Because we all damn well know that the game is already pretty much 'over' the moment someone gets an Armory / Rally from the Tavern and the other player cannot catch up.

All of 3 turns for the most part will 'decide' the vast majority of those ToT games

So people will just quit until THEY draw those power cards first.

You'll be lucky to see any game of ToT at this point last beyond turn 4.

And that's the simple truth of the matter.

Oh suuuuuure, there will be plenty among you saying 'that isn't how I play' but the simple truth is, people will simply game the bad game design to get rewards as quick as possible.

See fake tanks/heals gaming the dungeon queue system. If players 'can' they damn well 'will' whether you want to admit it or not.

Even if you gave the person who resigns no reward at all, if there's no penalty it'll STILL be worth it to just quit an already losing game and just re-queue

This isn't about player convenience, this is about protecting a fatal flaw in ToT game design, turning it into a complete farce of players quitting the second their opponent lands a power card and they cannot match it.

ToT's fatal design flaw is that it's so prone to snowballing early on, anyone who plays regularly will KNOW when a game is already 'over' in the vast majority of cases after a few turns

For people playing Ranked, that's a different discussion.

Tuonra2

Austacker wrote: »

Even if you gave the person who resigns no reward at all, if there's no penalty it'll STILL be worth it to just quit an already losing game and just re-queue

This is exactly right, and exactly the reason why conceding should be a normal loss and normal win for the opponent.

There is nothing wrong with conceding because your time is valuable. Be careful not to lose sight of what the problem here is. The problem is the opponent not getting a win if you concede. Conceding itself is totally valid.

NeKryXe

Austacker wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Tales of Tribute needs an option to resign that ALWAYS counts as a victory to the opponent and doesn't add a penalty to any player.

Put a button on the board or something for a player to resign with no penalty, or, at least, do not allow a player to resign in anyway once someone reaches 30 prestige.

As it is now, the resign counts as a loss for both players and both are penalized: The winner loses the victory and the loser gets a time delay. This is insane, it doesn't make any sense.

This has been reported for weeks and needs a URGENT fix!!!

Do realise why this isn't a 'thing' in ToT?

Because we all damn well know that the game is already pretty much 'over' the moment someone gets an Armory / Rally from the Tavern and the other player cannot catch up.

All of 3 turns for the most part will 'decide' the vast majority of those ToT games

So people will just quit until THEY draw those power cards first.

You'll be lucky to see any game of ToT at this point last beyond turn 4.

And that's the simple truth of the matter.

Oh suuuuuure, there will be plenty among you saying 'that isn't how I play' but the simple truth is, people will simply game the bad game design to get rewards as quick as possible.

See fake tanks/heals gaming the dungeon queue system. If players 'can' they damn well 'will' whether you want to admit it or not.

Even if you gave the person who resigns no reward at all, if there's no penalty it'll STILL be worth it to just quit an already losing game and just re-queue

This isn't about player convenience, this is about protecting a fatal flaw in ToT game design, turning it into a complete farce of players quitting the second their opponent lands a power card and they cannot match it.

ToT's fatal design flaw is that it's so prone to snowballing early on, anyone who plays regularly will KNOW when a game is already 'over' in the vast majority of cases after a few turns

For people playing Ranked, that's a different discussion.

I agree that we all know who wins after 3 turns. But I ALWAYS wait until the end so the luckiest player gets the daily done. Sometimes I just skip cards to speed up. So, why should I ALWAYS lose when I'm the luckiest player because many players have no respect for other other players? It'll be hard to educate players to have respect for other players, so, that's why I'm suggesting that the damn resign must be fixed. I shouldn't be losing every time some selfish player decides to quit. It's just wrong and Zos keeps feeding it. QUITTING SHOULD ALWAYS RESULT IN A VICTORY TO THE OPPONENT! Until it's fixed, quitting is wrong and selfish.

SilverBride

NeKryXe wrote: »

I think that at this point more than 50% of the players resign after the opponent reached 35 prestige...

I've played a lot of matches and have never had an opponent leave the game. Reaching 35 prestige is not a guaranteed win. The big plays always happen later in the game after players have had time to build their decks.

NeKryXe

SilverBride wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

I think that at this point more than 50% of the players resign after the opponent reached 35 prestige...

I've played a lot of matches and have never had an opponent leave the game. Reaching 35 prestige is not a guaranteed win. The big plays always happen later in the game after players have had time to build their decks.

Yeah! I always play until the end. But tell that to the massive legion of players resigning after 30 prestige. The way the game is designed now, resigning is the perfect way to guarantee that the opponent doesn't win. Everyday I play more than 10 games of ToT, more than an half ends by the opponent quitting, and it's very rare for me to complete 3 victories for the daily. I need to win dozens and dozens of games to get 3 victories counted on the daily quest.

On Elder Scrolls Legends every win counts as a victory. It doesn't matter if the victory is earned by winning the game or because the opponent resigned. They should learn something with ESL. They did it and it's great. It's hard to understand why ToT is so badly designed in every possible way after so many years of knowledge with ESL.

SilverBride

NeKryXe wrote: »

Everyday I play more than 10 games of ToT, more than an half ends by the opponent quitting...

What server are you playing on? I'm on PCNA and I've never seen this yet.

NeKryXe

SilverBride wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Everyday I play more than 10 games of ToT, more than an half ends by the opponent quitting...

What server are you playing on? I'm on PCNA and I've never seen this yet.

Now that's an interesting point. I've read some people saying they've never had this problem, but everybody on my guilds claims that they have it. I was thinking that it might be related to the accounts, but I never remembered that they could have released this with different rules for EU and NA servers.

I'm on PCEU. And now I'm thinking that, once again, they released the ToT game broken just for us. Well... as usual. That's quite interesting indeed.

SilverBride

That may be the difference in our experiences.