There is only one way to win, one strategy

Jaimeh

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I'm only able to play the novice NPCs right now, so I don't know how much the AI for the various NPC skill levels vary, but the novice NPCs are very predictable and it's easy to curry the favor of all four patrons because the NPCs never try to thwart you at it. Of the four basic decks, Pelin is the most difficult patron to get because of the conditions needed,

Agreed--when playing with NPCs (novice rank, I haven't yet played higher ones) if you want to win via the 4 patrons favour mechanic, then the limiting factor is the NPC getting and using an agent card. They will always try to build their coin accumulation via getting writs, and then after a certain threashhold of gold, they might get an agent if there is one available at the tavern. You can sort of manipulate this by leaving cheap agent cards for them to get, and this way if rng obliges, you can end a game in about 5 minutes.

ItsBreezyBee

SilverBride wrote: »

Skvysh wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The problem I have with it is that the only way I have seen to win a game is to collect the right cards from the right deck to generate a big amount of power all in one hand that is next to impossible for the opponent to counter.

...you're gonna have to be more specific about what your issue is...

I don't know how to be any more specific.

The only way I have seen to win this game is to generate a big burst of power that is too much for the opponent to counter.

There are multiple decks and cards and there should be multiple strategies that are capable of securing a win, but there aren't.

Just curious, but in your experience, is this happening with the St. Pelin deck?
When I first started playing and hadn't really yet learned to use the other decks, I would lose to this fairly often, and I found it really frustrating. However, as I've played and learned more, it doesn't happen much at all, and I've been having a lot more fun now that I don't see the Psijic deck as "kinda useless" like I did before, for example.

I've had some pretty great games and plenty of wins with a lot of different combinations, such as focusing on the Ansei + Rajhin decks. While I'm not great at the game yet and am only about halfway between Quicksilver and Voidsteel rank, I do feel that experimenting with different combinations and strategies has helped a lot. And there is definitely more than just one way or one strategy to win.

Figuring out and trying to counter your opponent's strategy is also at least half of the battle and is a strategy in itself. Trying to prevent them from getting the cards they want or need to set up powerful combos is one way to throw them off. If you're losing to big power combos in the later game, try to prevent your opponents from setting those up from the start. If you see them gunning for a certain deck, try to make sure they don't get it. Pick up a couple yourself or remove them from the Tavern at the right time. Depending on the decks in play, you can either play those to your advantage, sacrifice them for some extra Prestige, or just throw them out if they're in the way.

Another thing I've found to be super helpful that I see a lot of people not doing, is that if there's nothing in the Tavern that your opponent really needs based on past turns, and there's really nothing you need, either, sometimes it can really work in your favor to pick nothing up for 1 or more turns. RNG can really just be a bummer, and that's just how it goes sometimes, but you can also do little things to try and have it swing in your favor. Try to force your opponent to pick up cards they don't need so that maybe new ones will be drawn that you can then pick up on your next turn.

SilverBride

Compare ToT to a game of poker. What if the only way to win a game of poker was to have a royal flush? Other strategies such as bluffing did nothing. You either win with a royal flush or you don't win. That is what this feels like to me.

Skvysh

SilverBride wrote: »

The only way I have seen to win this game is to generate a big burst of power that is too much for the opponent to counter.

There are multiple decks and cards and there should be multiple strategies that are capable of securing a win, but there aren't.

The longer the game goes on, the bigger "bursts of power" generally will appear, assuming that both players play a long game correctly. That's because you flood your deck with higher cost cards that generate more power, remove a few of the starter ones and start chaining combos more often - it's only natural and it happens in every deck builder.

There are multiple strategies, though - quick power rush via pelin/ansei or playing it slow and steady with crows are just two examples. Buying your way into victory and holding the other player hostage via patron favour threat with Hlaalu can work just as well as spamming Orgnum's power. Red Eagle will allow you to destroy your starter deck so you can keep drawing the same 5 cards every turn.

Regardless of which approach you take, though, it will all lead to the same thing - gaining enough power/prestige to trigger the win (if we disregard the patron win condition). It, again, is the nature of deck builders and it's just natural that a game ends at one point or another. Some strategies will close the game earlier, while others will take more time to build up but will result in much higher power-per-turn gains.

The part you're missing, though, is that there's no set strategy for every game (apart from Orgnum spam, but that's just *** design) - both players choose two decks, which already throws out any plans you may potentially have. Cards on the tavern row, in your deck and in your opponent's deck, what you will be drawing next turn and what your opponent will - all that dictates the strategy you should use at current time.

Jusey1

So, after doing the full grind and having everything done except for the daily achievements and completing all decks... The only problematic deck is Orgnum right now. All other decks all have different strategies and ways to counter them, which I think is overall pretty good. The game does take strategy, does take knowledge of how the cards work, and you have to gain a good understanding on how each player will work base on the two decks they pick. Orgnum is the only odd man out due to how stupid that deck's patreon is to a point where you're forced to spam it if your opponent is spamming it.

ZOS_GregoryV

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dmnqwk

SilverBride wrote: »

Compare ToT to a game of poker. What if the only way to win a game of poker was to have a royal flush? Other strategies such as bluffing did nothing. You either win with a royal flush or you don't win. That is what this feels like to me.

Your title is 'this game does X' when it should read 'I feel like this game does X'. It's not only possible to win big or go home, that's simply how a number of games go based on the cards available.
I have played in games where I used Rahjin/Loremaster to stifle the tavern and the opponent and literally eke out a win by grinding. Reducing the number of cards they played each turn, having multiple prestige-reducing agents on the field and overall not scoring more than 5 or so points a turn.
I've also had games where cards like midnight raid came out early and so scoring 6-10 power a turn occured quicker than it would other days, allowing no combo decks to build up in time to go off.

Generally speaking, the RNG of the cards in the tavern affects your strategy, and adapting to which ones appear is the key to winning. Hlaaru/Crowstorm are all about comboing off for a large 15-20 point swing in a single turn, but Pelin/Eaglestomping/Hunding are about high prestige each and every turn. Orgnum is about getting a few 'grab X card' cards and starting the patron power battle, while Rahjin/Loremaster are about stifling your opponent so they can't get going.

The starting 4 decks of Hlaaru/Pelin/Crow/Loremaster contain 2 decks that combo off, 1 steady accrual and 1 stifle deck. The 4 you don't start with are 2 steady accrual/1 stifle and 1 silly patron power decks. So yes, when you play at the start, you'll face more combos until you gain access to new decks.

kevkj

@dmnqwk Thanks for saying what I could not while keeping a level head.

The_one_i_seek

[snip]

for author info - purple+black deck can provide 50+ burst in one shot
heck i even cant play it till the end no matter how fast i am - not enough time

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Casdha

Jusey1 wrote: »

Orgnum is the only odd man out due to how stupid that deck's patreon is to a point where you're forced to spam it if your opponent is spamming it.

If you haven't built a deck yet, ignore them especially if they haven't picked up any good coin or power cards before they started spamming. They are paying 3 coins for a card with 2 points and they aren't any good until their discard is reshuffled. If they only have single coin cards it won't be long until they don't have enough coins in a hand to keep it going. Spend your time on your game until you have some good coin and power cards and then beat them at their own game.

tatsukenji

SilverBride wrote: »

I understand that they are accumulating cards that they can generate combos to play at the end of the match for large amounts of power.

My complaint is that as far as I've seen this is the only way to win a game.

I have won many games via patrons.
Obviously a lot via early power plays.

Honestly seems like you're not paying attention to what the opponent has or you're unnecessarily clearing the tavern thus giving your opponent the opportunity to get their cards.

jaws343

So far, only possessing the base decks, I have successfully won, multiple times, using each deck as a focal point. And, of the starters, I find Pelin to be the least powerful, as it takes a while to build up if the right cards don't drop, and it is usually a fight over the cards. Personally, I've found Hlaalu to be a fairly strong deck when focused on, with a bit of Crows and/or Psijic as support. You can build for 6 hands or so, and end up in a position of having 20+ coin in a single turn, paired with the card combos that allow you to take cards from the tavern, it becomes super strong.

But, if you approach each game with a focus on a deck, and an understanding of how that deck will be complimented by the other decks in play, as well as which cards to delete from the tavern when you have opportunities to do so, to prevent your opponent from getting them, you can do the same with pretty much every deck.

Especially opponents who aren't paying attention. I find that most of the games I win start with my opponent using the Crow patron really early, and locking it out for themselves. And, when using the Psijic deck, you can almost gaurantee you will never lose from a Patron favor victory. But, you can catch other players not paying attention to the Patrons or the board. Had a match this weekend where I had two patrons favored, and my opponent left a Tithe on the board. Immediately pulled that, sacrificed a card for one Patron and did the Crows for the win.

Sweetpea704

SilverBride wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm not sure what you'd have them do to change this. Knowing when to "pull the triger" and setting it up beforehand is part of the strategy, and they are not easy or foregone decisions.

The problem is there is only one way to "pull the trigger" and only one deck that this can be done with.

I don't agree that there is only one deck that can help you win. I usually use a combination of two decks to win.