Why do DKs get nerfed when there is stamina sorc?

VadimAleks

Ok, I just got back from Cyrodiil. Tooltip says my skill does 9300+ damage. PvP penalty 50%. That leaves 4650. I deal 3100 damage and 3800 crit to the stamina sorc. Considering my 17k+3k penetration from a backstab, it's easy to calculate that his resists are 42+k. And at the same time, he deals full damage, not the usual 1-2k damage from tank builds.!
ZOS, don't you think that something is wrong with your balance?!

P.S. His hurricane hit me for 1415 damage. So without the PvP penalty he would deal 2400+. I just checked my sorc - at 5000 weapon damage and 30k stamina, his hurricane did 2000 damage to the dummy (on the last tick). Of course, I don’t have a cap resist (like a dummy), but we can already conclude that this sorc had at least 5000 weapon damage.

acastanza_ESO

StamSorc is absolutely insane right now but DK is still extremely good and did need to be nerfed. Even with the nerf, StamSorc is the only thing that comes even close to outclassing it, and even then, it's pretty situational which'll be better. StamSorc will probably be adjusted down (even if it is mostly the bow skills that are what's making it OP)

I wish MagSorc even close to as good...

Idinuse

VadimAleks wrote: »

Ok, I just got back from Cyrodiil. Tooltip says my skill does 9300+ damage. PvP penalty 50%. That leaves 4650. I deal 3100 damage and 3800 crit to the stamina sorc. Considering my 17k+3k penetration from a backstab, it's easy to calculate that his resists are 42+k. And at the same time, he deals full damage, not the usual 1-2k damage from tank builds.!
ZOS, don't you think that something is wrong with your balance?!

P.S. His hurricane hit me for 1415 damage. So without the PvP penalty he would deal 2400+. I just checked my sorc - at 5000 weapon damage and 30k stamina, his hurricane did 2000 damage to the dummy (on the last tick). Of course, I don’t have a cap resist (like a dummy), but we can already conclude that this sorc had at least 5000 weapon damage.

Well. Let me tell you about my magsorc then. I've used builds with over 8K SD fully grp buffed and 34K+ mag with 19K+ pen in Cyro and on some "builds" I did 300-800 dmg in general while they hit for 5K+ through my 23K resist and 3K crit resist consistently. Tell me again about balance?

ketsparrowhawk

Someone needs to tell the DK’s I’ve been running into that they were nerfed. Seems they missed the memo.

birdik

mDK should be nerfer for more, lol

taugrim

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StamSorc is absolutely insane right now but DK is still extremely good and did need to be nerfed. Even with the nerf, StamSorc is the only thing that comes even close to outclassing it, and even then, it's pretty situational which'll be better. StamSorc will probably be adjusted down (even if it is mostly the bow skills that are what's making it OP)

I wish MagSorc even close to as good...

MagSorc was effective for a long time. Hybridization didn't help MagSorc meaningfully since it relied on so many class Magicka abilities, but hybridization definitely benefitted other (Stamina) builds such as Stamsorc.

On top of that, Crystal Weapon was overbuffed in High Isle.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Someone needs to tell the DK’s I’ve been running into that they were nerfed. Seems they missed the memo.

Yup. MagDK is still very OP, even despite the nerfs.

fred4

The wheels on the bus go round and round
Round and round, round and round
The wheels on the bus go round and round
With eve-ry quarterly patch

Kikazaru

Time to open up the proc stamsorc hate train; it’s going to fill up very soon.

fred4

Kikazaru wrote: »

Time to open up the proc stamsorc hate train; it’s going to fill up very soon.

Didn't the same happen last summer? Must be seasonal.

xDeusEJRx

fred4 wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

Time to open up the proc stamsorc hate train; it’s going to fill up very soon.

Didn't the same happen last summer? Must be seasonal.

Not summer, but early 2021, they nerfed sorc in summer as a result of the hate train lol

duckdown

Bow sorc is op. A good Melee sorc cant even beat a good mdk.

I tried myself. Its not even fun. haunting curse + endless fury + Way of fire proc + Crystal wep + overload... in 2gcd and see people melt

divnyi

^ you forgot Savage Werewolf. It ticks at 0s when the dot applies. Which practically means it ticks twice per second.

Thraben

fred4 wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

Time to open up the proc stamsorc hate train; it’s going to fill up very soon.

Didn't the same happen last summer? Must be seasonal.

Not only seasonal, you can actually determine how much time has passed since the last major patch.

Nerf (Stam)Sorc threads are typically in week 2.

In week four people have again workable bruiser builds, and Sorc burst becomes more or less irrelevant again until the next major patch.

xDeusEJRx

duckdown wrote: »

Bow sorc is op. A good Melee sorc cant even beat a good mdk.

I tried myself. Its not even fun. haunting curse + endless fury + Way of fire proc + Crystal wep + overload... in 2gcd and see people melt

Hard disagree, a good melee sorc has a way better burst combo being able to 100-0 people way faster but they can't recover from being bursted because sorc has trash self healing, relying on rally to get any decent heals. If sorc heals weren't so awful they'd probably top them with ease and not just because of the meta bow sorc hoppers.

Melee sorc has always been strong before hybridization but having access to magic abilities made their damage ceiling spike tremendously

PvP_Exploiter

First of all Battle Spirit is 55% reduction, not 50.

Not factoring in other buffs such as Major and Minor Protection, or Minor Berserk on his damage. How much crit modifiers he has if he hurricane crit and how much impen you have.

Heavy armour/light armour extra resistance or penalties.

I'll tell you no stamsorc is running around with 42k resists.

Hexquisite

IDK..
DKS still feel really powerful when fighting them either 1 v1 or in a small group, and just stupid if they target you with the protection of their zerg.
Still StamDks with almost 100% uptime on Corrosive.
And 1 bar MagDK builds.
Yes, the StamSorc bow build or even destro build, is powerful, but they build for that, just like the DK video of the guy one shotting people with 34K heavy attacks.

Ishtharo

As someone who has run solo/small group stamsorc for years now, I was looking forward to the "Nerf stamsorc" threads on the forums, and wondering if people would stretch before their mental gymnastics, or just go for it hoping not to pull a muscle.

Have not been disappointed.

VadimAleks

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

How much crit modifiers he has if he hurricane crit and how much impen you have.
I'll tell you no stamsorc is running around with 42k resists.

The problem is not how hard he crits. (Also, it's not a crit. If it was a crit, I'd say "he crit me for 1400". It was normal damage.) The problem is that having overcap resists, he also has excellent damage. Based on this damage, I can roughly estimate his weapons damage (5000+). While other characters are forced to choose between tank and damage. It has damage mitigation at the level of 42k resist. I don't know exactly how. But it's funny to hear about the mention of some kind of "minor protection" and "major protection", since these bonuses are multiplicative. Minor Protection will only give 5% mitigation damage to a NUDE character. On the resist cap it will be only 2.5%.

Luede

have not met a dangerous stam sorc in the noncp campaign so far, but is possibly a cp thing

Thraben

Luede wrote: »

have not met a dangerous stam sorc in the noncp campaign so far, but is possibly a cp thing

You can do some bursty stuff, admittedly, but you have the same problems as a MagSorc has at some point: Good brawler players can avoid being killed in 4 seconds, and then they have the advantage.

Sorcs are and have always been - as another player put it - Noob cannons designed to punish those who don't have a working defensive strategy.

MEBengalsFan2001

This game is far from balanced.

I'm on my Templar going against 5 players and survive for a bit using everything to avoid hits etc.. I last roughly 5 minutes and eventually they kill me. I expected this.

Going 1v1 against a NB which I detected with a pot that had a 6 second window before he could go stealth. I also click on my radiant light and than I went to use by Toppling charge and than vanished right in front me. How's that for balance; two detect items and the player vanished in less than two seconds.

That same player hit me with Surprise attack and spin to win. I got hit for 1.2K by surprise attack and than 27K by spin to win. I have 29.9K health; the player didn't even take my full health but I died regardless. I was also standing on my rune and had two HoT on me.

It isn't balance that needs to be fixed; it is the base game mechanics and the devs said that is one of the core problems with this game is that they never truly updated the base code and that is where all issues lie with this game. Maybe I don't really have 29.9K HP like I think, maybe it is really 28.2k.

What I don't get is how he got a 27K spin to win hit on me. That is what is weird with my character. I can go 5v1 some days and other days I get raked by two or three hits. Blocking seems to cause my character to actually take more damage from my experience. I actually gave up on blocking because well it never works for me; I usually end up dead.

VadimAleks

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I got hit for 1.2K by surprise attack and than 27K by spin to win. I have 29.9K health; the player didn't even take my full health but I died regardless. I was also standing on my rune and had two HoT on me.

Yes, I understand what you mean. I myself got a one-shot more than once - but when I looked at the log, it turned out to be 7-8 different hits. As if I was being killed in 5-6 seconds. There were no lags, the Internet worked perfectly. It's just that in less than a second, so many hits were received, how many of them, in principle, could not happen due to the global cooldown. It seems that there is some exploit that allows you to issue a series of hits using a macro. I know it's possible to cancel the animation by swap bars, but I don't have the reflexes to do it with 5-6 skills in a row. And I don't really want to risk a ban by doing it through a mouse macro. By the way, some players were recently banned for "for third-party software" and I wouldn't be surprised if this "3rd party software" was just mouse software.
And the game log itself works strangely - the damage of all these hits counted as one attack, which showed high numbers. If it wasn't for the combat log addon, I wouldn't have known that it wasn't just one hit, but a series of several different hits.

celner4_ESO

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

This game is far from balanced.

I'm on my Templar going against 5 players and survive for a bit using everything to avoid hits etc.. I last roughly 5 minutes and eventually they kill me. I expected this.

Going 1v1 against a NB which I detected with a pot that had a 6 second window before he could go stealth. I also click on my radiant light and than I went to use by Toppling charge and than vanished right in front me. How's that for balance; two detect items and the player vanished in less than two seconds.

That same player hit me with Surprise attack and spin to win. I got hit for 1.2K by surprise attack and than 27K by spin to win. I have 29.9K health; the player didn't even take my full health but I died regardless. I was also standing on my rune and had two HoT on me.

It isn't balance that needs to be fixed; it is the base game mechanics and the devs said that is one of the core problems with this game is that they never truly updated the base code and that is where all issues lie with this game. Maybe I don't really have 29.9K HP like I think, maybe it is really 28.2k.

What I don't get is how he got a 27K spin to win hit on me. That is what is weird with my character. I can go 5v1 some days and other days I get raked by two or three hits. Blocking seems to cause my character to actually take more damage from my experience. I actually gave up on blocking because well it never works for me; I usually end up dead.

I feel like the best way to balance would be to make every class overpowered and the TTK very quick (everyone within pvp being the same level of tankiness). This would make every class feel powerful and viable and would allow for more strategy and teamwork to be involved when choosing to play defensively. I think with that balancing, making every class over powered stealth would have to be nerfed to some degree, as would streak, gap closers and movement speed in general brought to a global speed in pvp with maybe getting speed buffs from pots or limiting the amount of movement speed you can have. (Again these changes IF they did make every class over powered with a very fast TTK thereby making every class viable.) the past 2 decades of playing mmos the one thing I have noticed for pvp is the game always seems way more balanced when all classes are very powerful and the TTK is very quick with more skill needed to utilize defensives. The more tanky things become and the longer the TTK, the more you feel other metas being chosen to speed up that TTK while others are left at the wayside. And no one likes 2 tanks fighting 1v1 for 30 minutes. At least I don’t. Ew.

This is all super easy to say and I know especially with this game and it’s gearing being build based with 2 possible weapon choices slotted makes it far more complicated which I am not at all qualified to assume to know if it’s possible or not. But just a thought!